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AMD 3200 ---> X2 4200 = slow performance

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November 15, 2007 5:17:44 AM

Hi, I have installed a 939 AMD 4200 Dual Core Manchester on my Abit UL8 motherboard. Since then, I experienced slow performance in every game I play. I have an AGP 7600GT, 2gig RAM and a generic 450 watts power supply. I have installed AMD Dual Core Optimizer but nothing help. I've tried many nVidia driver but the performance is still low. I've reinstalled my old single core 3200+ on my motherboard and everything seem to be back to normal.

I wonder why do I have problem after installing a dual core on my system. Is it because I need a better power supply? a better cpu fan (I feel a big difference, 38 degree on idle with the 3200+ and 51 degree on idle with X2 4200). I have a limited budget I can't take a risk of wasting money.
November 15, 2007 5:51:07 AM

you got a crappy video card what u expect!

you can ebay a decent card for $100

slow performance has nothing to due with the psu

psu is too small the system shuts down as it heats up typically 15-20mins
your way off
November 15, 2007 5:58:10 AM

go into task manager and assign the game process to a single core. Ive noticed that this really is a problem with AMD dual core chips (specifically in games using the quake III engine).

Doing this in jedi academy resulted in 2-3x increase in frame rates.

EDIT: and the 7600gt is not a crappy card...it was a sweet midrange card not too long ago.
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November 15, 2007 11:48:46 AM

I tried to assign the game to one cpu but it didnt help. I had no problem playing call of duty when I had my 3200+ but after installing my X2 4200, I have slow performance no matter what setting.
November 15, 2007 11:53:32 AM

I will try to fix the problem with a more powerful power supply. I was thinking getting a 500 watts coolermaster extreme. I've never played 15-20min to see if the system shutdown because I couldnt endure the 50% performance decrease.
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a b V Motherboard
November 15, 2007 12:49:03 PM

Are both cores displaying in task manager?
Do both cores display in your hardware profile?
Does your BIOS correctly set the buss speed and multiplier for the X2 so that it is running the correct speed?
There is no way the X2 will give slower performance, no way, no how, it ain't happening, unless it is not installing and configuring correctly.

Do not spend money on a power supply, this is not the problem in this case.
Quick edit here:
I did some checking and your motherboard may NOT support dual core CPU's without a BIOS update.
November 15, 2007 1:04:44 PM

I will check this in a few hour and come back with an answer.
BTW what should be the bus speed and multiplier for a X2 dual core? Now I remember having slow performance on my old pentium 4 2.8ghz when running on win98 to play old games (I had dual boot system at that time) and I had to downclock the speed.

My dual core is a X2 4200 939, 2.2GHz. What setting should it be? I think the bus speed is 800 and mutiplier 200
November 15, 2007 1:08:31 PM

I just need to know how does the formula work? This is getting a little confusing with all the number : 200, 800-1000,

In my system propertie in windown, it's written 4200 dual core, so it should be okay.

But I didnt try anything yet...back in 6 hours.
November 15, 2007 1:33:04 PM

you installed a dual core chip into a system that thinks there is 1 CPU

your computer knows the Dual core is there but I would be willing to bet that windows does not have a clue ....

do some google work and find out how to install the windows drivers er something - I'd be willing to bet that someone here knows the process already
November 15, 2007 1:34:49 PM

Press CTRL-ALT-DEL

look in the performance TAB

there should be two panes side by side (1 for each CPU)
November 15, 2007 2:42:21 PM

Just try to OC that damn cpu..if it didn't help, just donate to....erm...me?
November 15, 2007 8:29:10 PM

aBg_rOnGak said:
Just try to OC that damn cpu..if it didn't help, just donate to....erm...me?


hahaha, maybe but you pay the shipping :p 
November 15, 2007 8:53:50 PM

you need to reinstall windows if you change the amount of cores in a PC...like others said windows still thinks that your PC only has 1 core, so its amazing its still working...

try reinstalling windows or googling a way to patch your installation...thats your problem right there :sarcastic: 
November 15, 2007 9:04:53 PM

You do NOT need to re-install windows!, I didn't, and I went from 3700 to x2 4200. You DO need to apply AMD patch for dual core and the microsoft one. Google is your friend. You do need a better CPU cooler as 4200 uses more power than your old CPU.

Mike.
November 15, 2007 9:16:05 PM

format and reinstall windows. It will take no longer than all this running around trying to get things to work.

If the problem still persists after that then there is something else wrong.

Don't just buy stuff because you think you might need it.
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a b À AMD
a b V Motherboard
November 15, 2007 9:19:47 PM

Goto amd's website and get the patch for dual core processors. There might be 2 that you need, sometimes just 1.

Goto Windows update to get latest updates.

Check to see if the ram timings changed.
a c 130 à CPUs
a b À AMD
a c 120 V Motherboard
November 15, 2007 10:11:46 PM

some software is also not dual core friendly and also some other software does not like cool n quiet(maybe it was off on your old cpu?)

Can you list full specs?
November 15, 2007 10:57:01 PM

thank you guy for all the reply :)  reinstalling windows seems to be the safest solution I will try it

my full spec is

abit uli8
amd 4200 dual core 939
2gig ram DDR
hard disk ide 120gig
hard disk sata 120 gig
pioneer r-111 dvd-rw
geforce 7600gt 256mb DDR3 agp
generic power supply 450 watts
coolermaster extreme vortex cpu fan
artic silver thermal paste
November 15, 2007 10:59:15 PM

mike99 said:
You do NOT need to re-install windows!, I didn't, and I went from 3700 to x2 4200. You DO need to apply AMD patch for dual core and the microsoft one. Google is your friend. You do need a better CPU cooler as 4200 uses more power than your old CPU.

Mike.


I installed both patch. None of them fixed my problem. Seems to be related to something else, maybe hardware.
a c 130 à CPUs
a b À AMD
a c 120 V Motherboard
November 15, 2007 11:03:37 PM

are you running the latest bios for your board? Maybe there was a fix. if you check in the task manager does it look like your bogged? maybe something is messing up and taking all the cpu power from you....

I know that Creative Audigy's software was verrrry slow and lagged even windows explorer(i am picky....it was only a half a second of lag, but well....you know pissed me off) on a dual core system until the software was patched to one core....
November 15, 2007 11:11:27 PM

as i have said before... AMD sucks
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a b À AMD
a b V Motherboard
November 15, 2007 11:58:38 PM

To the moron above: AMD doesn't suck, you do. Grow up. These forums are here to help people.

To the point at hand. I forgot to mention that your board may be on the older side and in need of a bios update that one of the other posters recommended.
Probably all you need. No reason to re-format because it still won't work if the right bios isn't in it.
November 16, 2007 12:21:01 AM

swifty_morgan said:
To the moron above: AMD doesn't suck, you do. Grow up. These forums are here to help people.

To the point at hand. I forgot to mention that your board may be on the older side and in need of a bios update that one of the other posters recommended.
Probably all you need. No reason to re-format because it still won't work if the right bios isn't in it.


I have reinstalled window and the performance are still low :( 
I will do as you said : update bios
November 16, 2007 12:27:59 AM

stevechong25 said:
I have reinstalled window and the performance are still low :( 
I will do as you said : update bios


There is a good chance that it should fix your problem. A lot of s939 boards would only support x2 with a bios update. Flash your bios, then see how it works. I Heard of someone who uninstalled the AMD driver and his system actually worked better, dunno its worth a try.

Did you check to see if cool & quiet is on? Or that the voltage going to the cpu is correct? Did you make sure your ram timings didnt change or anything like that?
November 16, 2007 1:41:30 AM

ok, I have updated the bios to the latest version but no improvement so far. Instead of displaying 2.21ghz it display 2.25ghz. The games performance are still horrible.

I decided to modify the multiplier and the bus speed. Instead of letting them to Default and Startup setting, I changed the multiplier to X11 2200MHz and the bus to 200MHz. Now my computer display 2.21ghz.

I tried a few games and noticed a small improvement in performance. Perhaps I should play with the bios setting until I get good performance.
November 16, 2007 2:06:19 AM

Did you try reinstalling windows yet? You said you were going to try, but have you done that yet?
November 16, 2007 2:10:27 AM

of course I did, It is written on the page
November 16, 2007 2:25:51 AM

do you guys think it is related to power consumption problem?
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a b À AMD
a b V Motherboard
November 16, 2007 2:28:51 AM

your ram should be running at 800........ no ?

wait a minute...........

ddr2 what ?

think you have to force your ram to run at native
a c 130 à CPUs
a b À AMD
a c 120 V Motherboard
November 16, 2007 2:36:19 AM

its 939 so it should be DDR1 @ 400ddr(most bios's call it 200) for optimal performance...
November 16, 2007 2:51:33 AM

his ram is DDR not DDR2 (socket 939)

windows reinstall should've done it unless its really old windows i.e. sp1 or below.

try turning off cool n quiet and yes i think the psu is too weak for your setup.

generic psu is running how many amps on the 12v rail?
November 16, 2007 2:52:08 AM

my ram is two different kind of noname brand
2 X 1gig pc3200
November 16, 2007 3:13:57 AM

If your system is slow only when playing games, the problem might be the AGP driver. Uninstall the video driver then the AGP driver, then re-install the AGP driver first. You can get the ULI AGP driver from the NVidia website. Maybe the problem has something to do with the AMD memory controller being integrated into CPU and it's affecting the AGP bus / driver.
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a b À AMD
a b V Motherboard
November 16, 2007 3:14:27 AM

Well, having 2 crap brand memory sticks don't help anything. Having said that, my ddr 3200/400 runs at 433.

Try running it at 216 for starters. Bump it up til it crashes then back off.......... or increase the voltage a little and start over

better off starting at 201 then 202, etc. Cheap memory might not run at 216..... ?
November 16, 2007 3:16:23 AM

Yes...forgot to mention that my 3700 also idles at 50C with the stock HSF, so that's not abnormal.
November 16, 2007 3:42:15 AM

Thank you guys :D  I have fixed the problem by installing the Uli driver on nvidia website. I cant believe I have passed by all that trouble :p  So happy !!!! I deserve you one!
November 16, 2007 4:16:01 AM

monst0r said:
you need to reinstall windows if you change the amount of cores in a PC...like others said windows still thinks that your PC only has 1 core, so its amazing its still working...

try reinstalling windows or googling a way to patch your installation...thats your problem right there :sarcastic: 


Nope. I replaced my 3000+ with a 4400+ and installed the AMD dual core drivers and everything worked fine. My bios was already updated.

To the OP: Your problem is that your mobo's ULi M1689 chipset (from the info I've found so far) doesn't support the x2 processors. The only option I can see is getting a new mobo. I just ran into this problem with a friend's PC I was upgrading for him. He had a Jetway with a via chipset that didn't support the x2, I didn't even think to check this out before but I realized it when I booted that thing. It was the same story, slow performance and only showed one graph in task manager. After I did some research and found out the problem, tried installing updated bios, nothing worked. We just had to get a new board.

Anyway, choices are limited for boards with an AGP slot and support for x2. Newegg has none. Tiger direct has an MSI with a VIA K8T800Pro for $50 that will work. There are some others out there, I think Zipzoomfly has one or two. Ebay is full of ECS and Asus boards with the VIA chip that will work for cheap, but some people don't feel comfortable buying such items from ebay. If you don't want to buy another video card I think that VIA is the only option if I remember right. You would be better off getting a board with a PCI-E slot and another cheap card IMO. There's lots of cheap ones with NF-4 chips that perform better and you could get something faster than that 7600 for very little. Hope this helps!
November 16, 2007 4:17:30 AM

Well crap, that last post was pretty pointless then wasn't it? Oh well.
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a b V Motherboard
November 16, 2007 11:02:29 AM

Hit ctrl-alt-delete at the same time to bring up the task manager.
Click on ther "performance" tab.
If the X2 is being correctly identified, you will see 2 CPU usage graphs. 1 for each core.
Go to your Control Panel, System, Hardware, Device Manager, Processor. Again, if the X2 is being detected correctly, you will have 2 CPU's listed.
If you only have 1 CPU graph in the device manager, or 1 CPU listed in your device manager, your X2 is NOT being detected correctly. It is, in your case, most likely your motherboard not being dual core compatable.
When you installed the new CPU, upon the first boot-up into Windows, Windows should have detected the new CPU, installed it, (it was loading the multi-processor kernel and drivers) and asked you to re-boot to complete the installation. Did that happen?
November 16, 2007 12:11:22 PM

I know his problem is solved, but i just wanted to flame a bit about some comments on the previous page.
The 7600GT is not a crappy card.
And amd doesnt suck.
Period.
a b V Motherboard
November 16, 2007 1:29:32 PM

rickzor said:
I know his problem is solved, but i just wanted to flame a bit about some comments on the previous page.
The 7600GT is not a crappy card.
And amd doesnt suck.
Period.

The 7600gt plays Crysis and COD4 just fine in 1280x1024 with a stock E4300, 2gb DDR2 533, and a lowly VIA MB all running on XP SP1!.
November 16, 2007 4:38:06 PM

tlmck said:
The 7600gt plays Crysis and COD4 just fine in 1280x1024 with a stock E4300, 2gb DDR2 533, and a lowly VIA MB all running on XP SP1!.


That said, there is nothing to add.
Although that "AMD sucks" comment was either childish and only meant to provoque people, or just purely ignorant.
Just because intel has better cpus, it doesnt mean that amd sucks, but thats just me and my homble opinion.
the nvidia 7600gt card performs on pair with a 7800gs (my card, a little oced anyway), and it still does the job pretty well.
Even with a old A64 3500+ (oced too) moving the horses :0 underneath.
November 16, 2007 5:30:46 PM

Guys... God are you guys just random and silly with some of these suggestions... Reinstall Windows? Get real. The AMD dual core optimizer and X2 drivers are all you need. The graphics card is bad? He had the same card before and now he has worse performance, so that's not it genius. It's definately not the power supply unless he's getting some bluescreens of death or some other issues (which he's not). Your PS is more than sufficient for your system. A power supply failure is usually accompanied by A) The smell of freshly baked silicon or B) a component not working correctly and you get the bluescreen o' death or C) Won't power on at all.
I don't know what you problem is specifically. I would say that it might be a mobo issue or maybe a bad CPU? Don't know. I will say that back in the day when I upgraded from an Athlon 2000+ to a X2 3800, I didn't notice a really huge jump in performance. Your old single core was clocked at 2.0Ghz, but actually ran at an effective 3.2ghz compared with a Pentiac 4 at 3.2 ghz. The newer numbering system on the AMD chips is reflective of the actual clock speed times 2 (in the neighborhood at least), so your effective clock speed has slowed by 1 Ghz when running single-threaded apps and games. You might want to try a game that is known to have been optimized for dual core systems like HL2: Episode One or some of the newer games then do a CPU comparison and see if it's still dogging. If it does, my opinion is a Mobo or bad CPU situation.
!