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Multiple BSOD Need Help Please.

Last response: in Windows XP
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April 8, 2010 3:59:28 AM

Hello my name is Jason and this is my first post here hoping to get my problems fixed. I would like to consider myself pretty PC savoy but, this is boggling me beyond no end. I can't fix it. I have done tons of diagnosing/attempted fixing but to no avail. Now to the problems...

Keep in mind this is after a fresh install of XP MCE SP3

Multiple BSOD.
multiple files referred to as the problematic/corrupted file in seperate BSOD.
Restart computer after BSOD and I receive "windows has recovered from a serious system error".

I have done almost everything i could think of (memtest, registry mechanic, system defrag, made sure all drivers are up to date, fixed all "unknown devices", virus scans, switched HD's thinking it might have been bad sectors, switched from AGP to PCI video and back to AGP because of a particular file issue, etc.)

What I am willing to do to try to resolve this issue:
Anything..... I have reformatted my HD and reinstalled the OS and still getting the same problems. I have no money to try to get new hardware. If you think you can help please post a few things you would like me to do. I have a current fresh minidump if that helps just need to know how to attach it because i did not see a place to attach files at.

I have read a few things from here where peoples problems have been solved. I hope i have one of those stories to tell how the people here have fixed my problem. Thank you for reading and I'm looking forward to hearing from someone soon.

Jason

Edit:
Forgot the system specs lol.
Asus p5p800
Intel 3.0Ghz not sure of the make could find out if needed
Nvidia 6800 AGP
2 Gb 2X1Gb PQI RAM
Marvell onboard 10/100/1000 Ethernet
Soundmax(pretty sure without looking) Onboard Sound
Maxtor SATA 200Gb OS drive
Maxtor SATA 160Gb Storage drive
Western Digital PATA 320Gb Storage Drive
Microsoft Windows XP Professional Media Center Edition SP 3 fully updated through Microsoft

More about : multiple bsod

April 8, 2010 5:03:18 AM

What is the BSOD message you are seeing, and when/where are you seeing it?
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April 8, 2010 5:55:42 AM

aford10 said:
What is the BSOD message you are seeing, and when/where are you seeing it?

I see it at random. Sometimes when i am surfing the net. Installing something. Doing microsoft updates through the website. It is completely random. And it also seems likes the Stop codes and (when it gives them to me) files pointed to are random. If i were to restart and do a few more things like surf the net or install something it would more than likely be something completely different. I knew if i installed something i would get some kind of error. The particular BSOD i left up waiting for a reply was:
DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
Technical Information:
stop: 0xD1 (0x8BF57440, 0x7, 0x0, 0xB86A4016)
atapi.sys - Address B86A4016 base at B86A3000, Datestamp 4802539d

Remember this is a fresh install and i have seen other files associated with these BSOD. It seems random files and codes are generated.
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Related resources
April 8, 2010 12:08:50 PM

Try running memtest on your RAM for about 6 or 7 hours.
http://www.memtest86.com/

If that doesn't find anything, try running in safe mode with networking for a while. If you don't get the error there, it's likely a driver issue.
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April 8, 2010 12:57:57 PM

He could also try reseating his RAM module in its motherboard socket. I've seen thermal cycling and dust buildup cause bad connections.

Also check the state of his capacitors on the motherboard. Are they all nice and flat on top, or are any swelling even slightly?

Which brings us to the power supply, which is often the root of unexplained software problems. I had one the other day in which the onboard NIC wasn't working properly and changing the P/S unit solved the issue.

Cheers!
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April 8, 2010 6:43:10 PM

OK i will address each replier seperately...

Aford10: I will try the memtest. i have done it before to no prevail but i understand there is a process to diagnosing things so for your own referance i will do a fresh one. and i will boot into safe modew/ networking for awhile see if i still get the problems.

Digitalprospect: i have reseatted my ram sticks a few times ive tried switching up ram sticks 1 at a time (i have 3Gb 3X1) and i still get the issues i tried putting them in b1 b2 and leaving a1 a2 empty no avail. I'll be honest i dont know what thermal cycling is but i keep a VERY clean machine inside. pc is in a smoke enviroment so i blow it out with compressed air about once every 2 weeks. i will check all the capacitors on the board. im guessing that is to see if anything has been damaged by heat right? and now unfortunately i cant replace any parts because of money issues right now. and i currently dont have a spare one right now.

thank you both for the replies i will do a few of the things listed to see if all goes well.

Jason

EDIT:
OK i did an inspection of the mobo and i only saw 1 that might have been bulged a little bit. the top of it was kind of puffed up but comparing to others i really had to get close to verify it but there is a slight difference between a normal looking one and the one in question.
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April 8, 2010 8:02:40 PM

Hi Jason,

Thermal cycling is simply the normal wear and tear on electronics as they heat up and cool down during use / nonuse. Socketed chips tend to creep up out of sockets etc as heat causes them to expand and then contract and sometimes lose good contact.


Bad Capacitors can be seen mostly on the top side, but can also leak on the bottom. The leaking/expansion is again caused by heat. This especially plagued systems built between 2001 to 2003 and sometimes later.

Here is an indepth article about the problem:
http://www.epinions.com/content_3906576516

And here is a link to a sample picture. Note the tops of the row of capacitors just in front of all the red arrows are perfectly flat, while the row behind is swelling, or leaking even.



The trouble with capacitor problems is that even a very slight swelling can cause issues, and sometimes leaking capacitors still function properly for a while. Kind of hit and miss in the problem department.

Hope that this is not the case with your board.
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April 8, 2010 8:18:07 PM

digitalprospecter said:
Hi Jason,

Thermal cycling is simply the normal wear and tear on electronics as they heat up and cool down during use / nonuse. Socketed chips tend to creep up out of sockets etc as heat causes them to expand and then contract and sometimes lose good contact.


Bad Capacitors can be seen mostly on the top side, but can also leak on the bottom. The leaking/expansion is again caused by heat. This especially plagued systems built between 2001 to 2003 and sometimes later.

Here is an indepth article about the problem:
http://www.epinions.com/content_3906576516

And here is a link to a sample picture. Note the tops of the row of capacitors just in front of all the red arrows are perfectly flat, while the row behind is swelling, or leaking even.

http://news.cnet.com/i/ne/p/photo/capacitors_apple_500x375.jpg

The trouble with capacitor problems is that even a very slight swelling can cause issues, and sometimes leaking capacitors still function properly for a while. Kind of hit and miss in the problem department.

Hope that this is not the case with your board.


Thank you for the picture in the response and the capacitor i was referring to looks like one of those capacitors just not as noticeable. the only way i could tell is by lightly running my finger across the top of them. If we were to continue to try to get past this just in case this wasnt the problem (i bought this computer off of ebay and didnt notice this not sure if it has always been there or not) Please read next post.
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April 8, 2010 8:18:10 PM

Another thought.

Your BSOD error code that you related to aford10 in an above reply would seem to implicate the atapi based storage devices in the problem (but taking into account the varying files involved in the BSODs I think you had better take a closer look at your power supply. If you think that there is even one bad cap on your board, then chances are there are ones worse off in your P/S. If it isn't under warranty, perhaps you should open it up and visually inspect the caps in the power supply unit itself. Don't poke or prod around in there with your finger or screwdriver as you could still get zapped by shock even if it is unplugged from the AC power, which it definitely should be at this point!
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April 8, 2010 8:22:20 PM

I have been running in safe mode with networking for awhile now and i have not had any issues with BSOD or anything. I have been surfing the net, i tried to install call of duty 4 (because i knew it always gave me some kind of error) but im guessing from the limitations of safe mode i could not install games. so im not sure i will begin the memtests here shortly and will give an update when i finish them.

Jason
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April 8, 2010 8:38:14 PM

If you can run in safe mode successfully without the error occuring that would normally point towards a driver conflict or software conflict when in normal mode, as Safe Mode starts the computer with minimal features and basic drivers. This is why you couldn't install/play your game. In safe mode, it is very unlikely that your computer 'technically' meets the games minimum requirements.

Does your computer have any add-in adapters other than the AGP video card?
Does your computer have a built-in video adapter as well as the AGP card? If so, I would remove the AGP card and run of the built-in video adapter just for the purpose of eliminiating the AGP card as the source of the problem. Also removed (for now) any other unneeded add-in cards like a modem etc.
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April 8, 2010 8:59:23 PM

OK update time. I didn't start the memtest yet. I was actually filling out a job application online and the dreaded BSOD shows up again while in safe mode with networking. Information as follows from the entire BSOD:

A problem has been detected and windows has been shutdown to prevent damage to your computer.

PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA

If this is the first time you have seen this stop error screen, restart your computer. If this screen appears again, follow these steps:

Check to make sure any new hardware or software is properly installed. If this is a new installation, ask your software or hardware manufacturer for any windows updates you might need.

If problems continue, disable or remove any newly installed hardware or software. Disable bios memory options such as cacheing or shadowing. If you need to use safe mode to remove or disable components, restart your computer, press F8 to select advanced startup options, and then select safe mode.

Technical Information:

*** Stop: 0x00000050 (0xFFFFFFF0, 0x00000000, 0x804EA580, 0x00000000)

There is the exact message while in safe mode with networking. This is a fresh install of winXP Pro MCE SP3. All updates downloaded and installed. I did not install any new hardware.

Now for the reply to digitalprospect:
Well the whole successful safe mode went out the window lol.

"Does your computer have any add-in adapters other than the AGP video card?" no

"Does your computer have a built-in video adapter as well as the AGP card?" The only onboard components are sound LAN and usb. Video requires an addin card. I currently have an AGP nvidia 6800 and a PCI nvidia FX 5500.

EDIT:
I still have the 2Gb (2X1) in the b1 b2 slots (was getting errors with a1 a2 just havent switched back to a1 a2 yet. Pretty sure it wont change the errors though.)
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April 8, 2010 9:24:48 PM

OK I have used ccleaner before I actually used it on a regular basis so I know how the program works. I will start the memtests here shortly. I am curious though how could my registry be corrupt or have errors if it is a fresh install of the OS??
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April 8, 2010 9:30:57 PM

It most likely isn't. It's an easy step, and can't hurt to try.
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April 8, 2010 9:33:32 PM

The unfunny thing about Windows is that as soon as you have even just one improper shutdown it is possible to have corruption. Ain't that nice!

Swap out the AGP card for the PCI video adapter just to rule out video (an outside possibility but still... process of elimination).
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April 8, 2010 9:34:06 PM

I would even suggest doing a chkdsk on the hard drive. You can go to the hard drive manufacturer's website, and download their diagnostic tool, or go to start-->run-->chkdsk /r-->it will run the next time you restart, and scan/repair any damage it can.
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April 8, 2010 9:37:01 PM

aford10 said:
It most likely isn't. It's an easy step, and can't hurt to try.

OK like i said i am willing to do anything even if i have already done it that way you know it has been done and can then rule out that issue. once im done getting my floppy ready for memtest i will install and run it.
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April 8, 2010 9:37:47 PM

aford10 said:
I would even suggest doing a chkdsk on the hard drive. You can go to the hard drive manufacturer's website, and download their diagnostic tool, or go to start-->run-->chkdsk /r-->it will run the next time you restart, and scan/repair any damage it can.

Will do this after i run ccleaner
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April 8, 2010 9:39:55 PM

digitalprospecter said:
The unfunny thing about Windows is that as soon as you have even just one improper shutdown it is possible to have corruption. Ain't that nice!

Swap out the AGP card for the PCI video adapter just to rule out video (an outside possibility but still... process of elimination).


hence why i hate computers and bill gates..... i have swapped those out before from a few suggestions from my friend and the same still occurs so if anything i know it isnt the agp slot or either card at all
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April 8, 2010 10:01:42 PM

Jason,

Out of curiousity, what speed is your memory modules?
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April 8, 2010 10:02:59 PM

I have ran ccleaner and finished making the memtest floppy and running it now with 1 ram stick in and in the first slot. how long should i let each stick run through the tests for?
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April 8, 2010 10:09:58 PM

I think aford10 recommended 6 or 7 hours in the post earlier . So that would be per chip (one at a time).
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April 8, 2010 10:11:09 PM

digitalprospecter said:
Jason,

Out of curiousity, what speed is your memory modules?


The paired sticks:
PQI PC3200 1GB Dual Channel
3-4-4-8

I have 3 sticks the third is a completely different stick speed and timings are:
PQI PC3200 1GB (looks like single channel)
cas latency 3 i looked for the specfic timings but this is what i could find.

I believe both are ddr 400 as well.
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April 8, 2010 10:13:16 PM

just to be completely off subject here for a second i want to thank you both digitalprospect and aford10 for helping me diagnose this. It is nice to know there are still people in this world that care about other people and willing to help just because they need it. Thank you to you both.
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April 8, 2010 10:15:17 PM

aford10,

The manual for this motherboard calls for dual-channel unbuffered non-ecc 400/333/266Mhz DDR memory modules. Sounds like the paired set should be compatible?
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April 8, 2010 10:18:52 PM

I am gonig to provide the manufacturer links to the sticks of ram i have. be sure to take out the space between the site and com.

First is the single stick i have the site has a list of different sticks note the yellow graph PC3200 the top 1 GB stick specs:
http://www.pqimemory com/power_memory.asp

This is the paired sticks:
http://www.pqimemory com/spec.asp?link=/dc/PQI3200-2048DB.htm
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April 8, 2010 10:20:22 PM

after reading the post while i was making the last if needed i will leave out the single non paired stick if necassary thats how i have been running for a while now.
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April 8, 2010 10:34:43 PM

yep and it was just something i tried(see was trying everything lol) but to give some info about the first stick of the paired ones. I am going to list the information given on the memtest screen. sounds kind of off to me according to the manufacturers specs. ill explain the pentium part in a bit.

Pentium 4 (0.09) 3300 Mhz
L1 Cache: 16k 21567Mb/s
L2 Cache: 2048k 17459Mb/s
L3 Cache: None
Memory: 1023M 1150 Mb/s
Chipset: Intel i848/i865 (ECC: Disabled) - FSB: 220 Mhz - PAT: Disabled
Settings: RAM: 146 Mhz (DDR 293) / CAS: 3-4-4-8 / Single Channel (64 bits)

Figure you guys would know this but the reason it says single channel is because i only have the one stick in there.
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April 8, 2010 10:41:56 PM

Pages 33 thru 38 deal with the memory modules. It's interesting that they felt the need to include a 'Qualified Vendors' list of compatible memory. PQI is not on the list, but that does not necessarily mean it won't work.


You mentioned earlier that you bought the computer off ebay. Was there a period of time that you owned it that it worked, or is this right from purchase? I ask just because I'm wondering if the RAM is known to have worked properly at all, or did someone sell you a unit that they didn't necessarily ever use.
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April 8, 2010 10:57:41 PM

the computer was bought from ebay and with every computer i get i wipe and reinstall the OS was running much better than the one i had previously actually flawless no errors no problems installing anything. then one day i got a BSOD... "ok that was wierd" goes maybe another month then i get another goes for a few more weeks then another and so on and so forth until it seems like i cant do anything with it anymore. please keep in mind the video card (AGP) and the dual channel ram was transferred over from my other machine and when they were installed never an issue with them. the reason why i bought PQI is because of the quality of their products. and from the looks of things when i got the package it had everything besides a monitor the trackball looked well used and the keyboard had a few usuage marks on it. im guessing it was used quite frequently. and then when i get it and install the fresh OS i install my games and i get to gaming. so it has had ALOT of usuage by me alone. Im a HEAVY gamer. (so much my wife gets mad at me sometimes lol. and fuming because im using her computer to keep up with these forums. she wants my computers fixed so she can get hers back lol.) and BTW i did have all 3 memory modules installed and running flawlessly for about 6 months. the video card and ram from said machine was pitched (reason being the ram wasnt compatible speed wise with what i had and the video card was for video editing purposes and couldnt hold up to my gaming graphicswise).
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April 8, 2010 10:58:48 PM

UPDATE:

Memtest completed the first pass test and it completed without errors and the second pass test is almost done.
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April 9, 2010 12:32:05 AM

I would let it go for at least 6 passes.

Your single RAM chip doesn't have the same specs as the paired kit. The voltages are slightly different, and I would bet the timings are as well. It shouldn't make much difference, since they have been running together for some time. If we can figure this out, it may be a good idea to run CPUZ, and check the memory settings. If they are off, you can configure them manually in the BIOS.
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April 9, 2010 12:41:23 AM

we can go through the standardization of all three sticks of ram after the memtest gets done with all sticks.
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April 9, 2010 1:50:15 AM

UPDATE:
Stick 1 is done with 6 passes no errors. Will give another update when second is done.
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April 9, 2010 2:17:42 AM

Jason,

Something to try after the memtests complete. Do you have another power supply on hand that you can try in this computer. One of your previous posts made me think you have a P4 kicking around. It might have the proper connectors to use as a test. I still think this is going to turn out to be power related, either due to bad caps or a faulty P/S just by your description of how the problem progressed. I'll believe it even more strongly when and if that second chip passes memtest. You might even be able to score a good used power supply from your local computer shop for a steal.

Another obscure cure for a computer that was bluescreening happened to me about five years ago. Believe it or not, changing the CMOS Battery solved the blue screen. I would never have found it except I had taken out the battery to clear the CMOS and had misplaced their battery by the time I came back to the computer. So I used a new battery and the problem was solved. Cleaning up my work area, I found their orginal battery, so I put it back in. Low and behold the bluescreen was back. New battery... no problem. One of those fixes I would never have thought to try in a million years.
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April 9, 2010 3:39:38 AM

going to continue this tomorrow and let the memtest run. and also asking my buddy if he has an extra PS will go into more tomorrow. Thank you a ton guys for your help so far. I am very grateful.
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April 9, 2010 10:37:57 PM

UPDATE:
All sticks have finished and the off stick went through 24 passes without problems. So im pretty sure it is nt a ram issue lol. I got in touch with my friend and he does not have an extra PS or CMOS battery. And i was looking at the information on the memtest screen for the off stick and it said the timings were 3-4-4-8 same as the paired sticks. seemed like everything was the same except it doesnt have the heat spreader. It is too late for me to call a computer shop here. But there is one that i went to and they gave me a free dell box when i was trying to piece together a different computer so i will see if they have some PS's that they are planning on trashing just because and see if i can snag one.
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April 10, 2010 12:19:48 AM

Keep us updated when things progress.

Cheers!
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April 10, 2010 1:55:24 AM

Thanks for the update.
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April 11, 2010 4:24:06 AM

When Monday hits I should have plenty of time to call around to a few computer shops around here. If anything just gank my wifes PS to take a test lol. She will hate me but its ok. I dont think stealing a PS is worth divorcing right?? lol
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April 11, 2010 6:05:00 AM

OC her PC a tad, and maybe she'll let it slide. :D 
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April 11, 2010 11:50:02 PM

I'm going to try and get one to make tests with but she loves me..... "trying to find cause of divorce paperwork" lol
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April 12, 2010 6:08:28 AM

OK guys i am about to boggle your brains about this pc. My wife asked me if she could install the full tilt poker program. i said sure its a POS anyways. this occured at 9 PM tonight and she has been playing without any errors on startup or anything. only thing is this does NOT mean the problem is fixed. So now i need some ideas why that particular program will run just fine but NOTHING else will not even google chrome for just an hour or so.
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April 12, 2010 11:47:27 AM

You have to hate when computers throw you a twist! <grin>
Ok...so Full Tilt Poker is not that demanding of a program. She may have gotten lucky... if it is bad caps, the problem gets worst as the unit heats up, so errors are less likely to occur under light load and early on when the computer is first started.

Something I don't think we covered yet though... we tested your system RAM, but the video card would also have its own RAM memory so could also produce BSOD memory errors. Full tilt poker may not be addressing all the card's memory. Your motherboard specs suggested that you also have integrated video built into the motherboard. Try taking your Nvidia card out and using the on-board video to see what happens.
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April 12, 2010 8:50:20 PM

This board does not have an on board video adapter. And you made mention about bad caps and heating up. Installing something like CoD4 would be considered stressful on the system correct? The reason i bring that up because it seemed like i can always guarantee a BSOD when installing more system intensive programs (etc. games). And before when my wife was messing with my computer because i stole hers, she played on a program called IMVU. i guess it is an avatar based chat client and she was getting the errors there as well. So my question is there a way to check the video ram of a nvidia geforce 6800?
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Best solution

April 12, 2010 9:03:12 PM
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