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AMD 64 x2 4200+ Failed Upgrade!

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November 18, 2007 2:33:09 AM

Hi,

I am a budget gamer.

Basically I play the lastest games but usually I dont care if I can go to the max quality level on them.

My actual rig is the following:
GA-K8NS Ultra 939 F10 Bios
Athlon 64 3200+
Geforce EVGA 6800GS (modded to GT)
2GB Corsair Value Select 3200+ (4x512MB)
Hitachi SATA 80GB
Audigy 2 zs
PS Thermaltake TRT2-430W


I have been interested in make a light upgrade to my machine and I got a AMD 64 x2 +4200 socket 939, which should be work fine with my motherboard, however I found 2 problems while trying to get it working:

1. Motherboard long beeps. I tried putting memory modules one by one. For my surprise, the maximum memory recognized by the bios was 1GB. It means that with the CPU upgrade, the motherboard recognizes 2 memory banks instead of 4. :( 

2. Overheating. I got a Ultra X Wind CPU Cooler (ULT33048). I want to think that it is not enough to handle this CPU, even when it is supposed to work as per the manufacturer website. Idle, the CPU got 55/54 (both cores) and while playing the UT3 demo, it went to high temps (73C-75C), giving as result that my computer suddenly turn off.

Upset with the behavior of the computer, I decided to revert the CPU upgrade, using my old processor (3200+). For my surprise, the CPU Cooler handle it perfectly (helped by Artic Silver 5) but the great surprise, was that I was able to use my 2GB of RAM again. Weird... :??:  (before of this point, I thought that the memory banks were broken)

Does someone has an idea about what is happening? Power Supply? Bios? CPU? Bad luck? :sweat: 

Thanks in advance for your help in this matter.

Regards,
Raged
Panama
November 18, 2007 2:53:17 AM

Best guess is a bios problem... Look for a newer one for your board.

I did the same quite some time ago 3000+ - 4200 X2. No reason for the cooler not working properly with the X2. Mine came with the AMD cooler that does not have the heat pipes.
November 18, 2007 3:34:23 AM

I've looked up your mobo and looked through tech documents and haven't found any useful solutions for you. You've got the most recent BIOS for your board and according to Gigabyte, it will support the X2 4200 CPU. I do have some suggestions though.

1. Did you upgrade the BIOS just before you put in the new CPU? If you did, it's possible there may be some left-over data in the CMOS that simply clearing the CMOS may solve. See your mobo manual for proper instructions as I am unfamiliar with your particular mobo.

2. Did you pick up a bare (OEM) chip or buy it in a retail box? It is possible you simply got a faulty CPU. I find OEM chips tend to not get the same treatment as retail chips and a bad one may slip by.
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November 18, 2007 3:38:56 AM

The last bios upgrade for microcode was the end of December 2005, I would email Gigabyte Tech support and ask if there is a newer bios that supports that cpu.
a b à CPUs
November 18, 2007 3:45:05 AM

Well it's not really difficult to understand the 4200+ with 1 GB and 3200+ with 2GB. AMD's memory controller is integrated, so it stands to reason that they might be slightly different. I am not intimately familiar with AMD CPU's or motherboards, but you should have an option to up VDimm. I would try increasing the voltage and see if it will work with all 2GB of RAM. Also if you can control the Command Rate, I would try 2T if it's set to 1T.

As for your overheating issue, I'm not sure. As I understand it AMD's retention system is really robust (looking at you Intel with your gay pushpins) so it would be next to impossible to have your HSF seated improperly. The only thing I can think of is that you used too much AS5 when you had your 4200+ installed. Of course this is all speculation on my behalf, but it gives you something to try.
November 18, 2007 4:08:08 AM

techgeek said:
Well it's not really difficult to understand the 4200+ with 1 GB and 3200+ with 2GB. AMD's memory controller is integrated, so it stands to reason that they might be slightly different. I am not intimately familiar with AMD CPU's or motherboards, but you should have an option to up VDimm. I would try increasing the voltage and see if it will work with all 2GB of RAM. Also if you can control the Command Rate, I would try 2T if it's set to 1T.

As for your overheating issue, I'm not sure. As I understand it AMD's retention system is really robust (looking at you Intel with your gay pushpins) so it would be next to impossible to have your HSF seated improperly. The only thing I can think of is that you used too much AS5 when you had your 4200+ installed. Of course this is all speculation on my behalf, but it gives you something to try.


I think that changing RAM voltage will do more harm than good. He's running regular old DDR at 2.5 volts. Running it higher is not a good idea. As for the Intel pushpin HSF, I agree that it has to be the worst HSF solution I've seen. The older Intel P4 478 had a better retention mechanism. I try to only use backplate mounted HSF's for Intel CPU's for my custom built systems.
November 18, 2007 10:55:47 PM

Thanks for your replies.

Well, My new CPU is an OEM chip. In the past, I always preferred to buy retail versions but nowadays is not so easy to find socket 939 dual core cpu's (beyond +3800) and I practically was forced to get this.

At the beginning I thought that my MOBO was in short or something like that, due the long beeps. I checked everything and was ok.

The sad story is that I got my processor in USA, while I live in Panama, thousand of miles away, so if I unfortunately got a faulty CPU I think is cheaper to buy another than send this as RMA :( 

Otherwise, I still want to think that the fan cooler is not intended for gamer computers. As per its features, the AMD X2 4200+ is the faster chip that it can handle. I mean, If I used my computer to write documents, surf the web or light things like that, the overheating would be almost transparent for me, but when the full load comes to face the CPU, the problems start. Unfortunately I dont have another fan to test this theory.

Once thanks for your replies.

Regards,
Edgar
November 18, 2007 11:16:47 PM

answer: get a new computer
November 18, 2007 11:56:22 PM

boner said:
answer: get a new computer


...says the man with a Pentium D...
November 19, 2007 12:38:08 AM

I agree with Timinator reset your bios to default and see if this clears up the problem. Maybe you have some thing set in the bios that is screwing things up.
November 20, 2007 12:10:35 AM

Hi again,

Well, I did what Timinator suggested and I got my bios at default.

The good: PC boots recognizing the 2GB of memory :pt1cable: 
The bad: The high temps from the CPU :sweat: 

Look af the numbers given by SpeedFan, while I am writing this:



I know I am using the normal amount of Artic Silver 5, so that should not be the problem.

What I have noted is that beyond the high temps, CPU seems like work perfectly. In games (UT2004, Oblivion IV) and in WinXP enviroment. Sadly I still cant find the way to fix the temps issue. I am unable to play as I should, because I am sure that when the games ask more resources, the PC will crash due the temps.

One more thing. If it can help you to look my problem a bit closer, this is the link to the website of my CPU cooler manufacturer (by the way, I had to install a back plate thing to get it working). That is the exact model:

http://www.ultraproducts.com/product_details.php?cPath=...

Thanks a lot for your answer.

p.s.: Boner, maybe you are right and I should get a new pc. In fact, I am working on that, but for the next year when some prices get down (for example vidcard 8800GTS at $100, lol). The point is that I came to this forum with the idea of post my problem, get helpful people interested on it, and hopefully get a solution. Thanks anyway for take your time to read my problem. ;) 
November 20, 2007 2:37:03 AM

Try setting the voltage manually in the bios. Could be that it is on auto and for some reason is setting it really high. It's worth a shot...
November 20, 2007 4:36:23 PM

Hi again,

Well, I did what Timinator suggested and I got my bios at default.

The good: PC boots recognizing the 2GB of memory :pt1cable:
The bad: The high temps from the CPU :sweat: said:
Hi again,

Well, I did what Timinator suggested and I got my bios at default.

The good: PC boots recognizing the 2GB of memory :pt1cable: 
The bad: The high temps from the CPU :sweat: 


Don't trust Speedfan as you may need to calibrate it to get the correct temps. I would recommend checking your BIOS temps first then compare them to Speedfan. You can also use Gigabyte's EZTune program to view temps on your motherboard. If EZTune reports high temps then you have a problem. If it reports different temps, then likely Speedfan needs to be calibrated to your temp sensors.
November 20, 2007 4:38:09 PM

monsterrocks said:
Try setting the voltage manually in the bios. Could be that it is on auto and for some reason is setting it really high. It's worth a shot...


Nah, his board recognizes the X2 4200 CPU, auto settings should be fine. I'm guessing Speedfan is reporting higher temps than what it really is.
November 20, 2007 4:57:14 PM

Quote:
...says the man with a Pentium D...
BURN!!! :p  Seriously though, try another piece of software besides speedfan to read your CPU temps. Check your CPU temps in your BIOS as well and see if they are abnormal.

I know you said you are using the correct ammount, but check this site and make sure that you are; http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appinstruct/as5/ins_as5... Too much just acts as insulator and will hurt your temps. Also, the retail HSF for my AMD 5000+ is a block of aluminum with an 80 mm fan on top, nothing fancy, but it keeps my CPU under 45C while gaming.

November 20, 2007 5:21:47 PM

hahhahah pentium D at 3.4ghz hahahahha my x2 4000 whips that heheehhe... well it is at 3.33ghz on air... 25 idle.... beat that Pentium D!!! hehhehheehehe..... new computer indeed!!
a c 850 à CPUs
November 20, 2007 9:58:55 PM

looking at your speed fan picture the Voltages are all wrong the Vcore should be 1.3 to 1.35 one core registers at 2.62 your other voltages specially the 5volt are of to. What is BIOS showing?
November 21, 2007 1:54:03 AM

Hi again,

Update:

Honestly, each idea I get in this thread, deserves a shot.

Following the monsterrocks's suggestion, I went to Google to read more about reduce voltage in CPUs. I learned that I can reduce the volt, but as long that the system be stable. I manually set the cpu volt at 1.30V, because in AMD site, I found that my processor default volt is 1.30V to 1.35V, so I went to the inferior limit. Even when I got my computer working, the high temps are still there. I noticed a little succes doing this, but that was not my solution.

rgeist554 suggested a better way to use Artic Silver 5. I must recognize that I did not know that I was using an excessive amount of it on my processor. I cleaned everything, put the suggested small amount, but guess what? the high temps keeps owning me.

Timinator idea about SpeedFan showing wrong temps had a lot of sense. That is why I downloaded EasyTune 5 from Gigabyte and CoreTemps to show 3 different readings about temps almost at the same time (difference in seconds)

These are the images:





I know that even when this three utilities can show different temps on my pc, in all cases I am just using my computer to write this. If I go to a strong game, I am pretty sure that as in the past, my pc will turn off suddenly due the overheating. Look, I am pretty close to the limit for my processor (70C more or less) :( 

I dont know if I will be putting this cpu in the trash or if finally I will get it working as it should. By the moment, thanks a lot to all of you for the support.

Later,
Edgar



Bios shows correct values for everything, including my 1.30V adjust.
November 21, 2007 7:03:51 AM

OK, so you have verified that the HSF is seated properly and has enough thermal grease. You have verified that Speedfan's temps were fairly accurate. You also verified that setting the CPU voltage to it's minimum spec had no affect on temperature. The reason why there is a voltage range for your CPU is because different silicon may require a slight voltage difference to run properly. I recommend keeping the CPU set to auto unless your overclocking. So, that comes down to case airflow. Did you take those temps with the case open or closed? The temps your getting should be what you would see while under load. Idle temps should be at least 10c cooler. I would also recommend turning off the Cool & Quiet settings so your CPU fan will spin at full blast to see if that helps your temps.
November 21, 2007 7:57:46 AM

BIOS upgrade might help plus funshui for goodluck. Toinks!

It all about the mobo or PSU...
November 22, 2007 2:50:54 AM

Hi,

Not much to add.

I spent about an hour looking for the cool 'n quiet option in my Bios and I could not find it. Even when there is advanced values that can be reached in my bios with Ctrl + F1, there was not anything seemed to Cool'n quiet :( 

CPU Thermal Throttle [50%], Fast Write, AGP Size and just a couple more of options were there.

There is another way to do it? My motherboard is supposed to support it, but I cant find the option. I am pretty sure that option is not present in my bios.

So, I was not able to make my CPU Cooler work at its max speed, at least not today. I read that an option would be connect the fan cooler directly to the power supply via 3 pins adapter (got one with a Zalman cooler installed in my vidcard), but I would lose the temp readings, right :??: 

I set Easy Tunes to 70C as max temp and it let me play 3 followed maps of UT3 demo, which is very heavy in terms of resources use. That was good, but inmediately I stopped playing went into Easy Tune and the temp was in 68C :o 

I am getting crazy. Few minutes ago, I was going to uninstall my new CPU cooler in order to install the AMD stock fan cooler that came with my 3200+ processor, but I did not that because something could get hurt. Yeah, coward, haha.

Well, I thought I could come here tonight to write that my issue was solved, but unfortunately its not.

Otherwise, do you think that I could have gotten a faulty CPU? As I said before, it seems to be ok while working. The big problem are the temps.

Bye,
November 24, 2007 3:08:50 PM

I spent about an hour looking for the cool 'n quiet option in my Bios and I could not find it. Even when there is advanced values that can be reached in my bios with Ctrl + F1, there was not anything seemed to Cool'n quiet :( said:
I spent about an hour looking for the cool 'n quiet option in my Bios and I could not find it. Even when there is advanced values that can be reached in my bios with Ctrl + F1, there was not anything seemed to Cool'n quiet :( 


I just downloaded the manual for your board and took a look at the config screens. Your board doesn't call it Cool n' Quiet but rather CPU Smart Fan Control. If you Disable this, your CPU fan should run at full speed.

So, I was not able to make my CPU Cooler work at its max speed, at least not today. I read that an option would be connect the fan cooler directly to the power supply via 3 pins adapter (got one with a Zalman cooler installed in my vidcard), but I would lose the temp readings, right :??: said:
So, I was not able to make my CPU Cooler work at its max speed, at least not today. I read that an option would be connect the fan cooler directly to the power supply via 3 pins adapter (got one with a Zalman cooler installed in my vidcard), but I would lose the temp readings, right :??: 


I wouldn't recommend this. Keep your CPU fan connected to the CPU_Fan plug next to the CPU.

I set Easy Tunes to 70C as max temp and it let me play 3 followed maps of UT3 demo, which is very heavy in terms of resources use. That was good, but inmediately I stopped playing went into Easy Tune and the temp was in 68C :o said:
I set Easy Tunes to 70C as max temp and it let me play 3 followed maps of UT3 demo, which is very heavy in terms of resources use. That was good, but inmediately I stopped playing went into Easy Tune and the temp was in 68C :o 


Set the CPU Warning Temperature in the same page as the CPU Fan at 70c as well.

I am getting crazy. Few minutes ago, I was going to uninstall my new CPU cooler in order to install the AMD stock fan cooler that came with my 3200+ processor, but I did not that because something could get hurt. Yeah, coward, haha. said:
I am getting crazy. Few minutes ago, I was going to uninstall my new CPU cooler in order to install the AMD stock fan cooler that came with my 3200+ processor, but I did not that because something could get hurt. Yeah, coward, haha.


I'd assume you would get better cooling off your Zalman cooler rather than AMD's stock as it was meant for your old CPU. The stock AMD cooler for the X2 4200 would probably be a bit bigger (heavier and more fins) with a better fan.

Otherwise, do you think that I could have gotten a faulty CPU? As I said before, it seems to be ok while working. The big problem are the temps. said:
Otherwise, do you think that I could have gotten a faulty CPU? As I said before, it seems to be ok while working. The big problem are the temps.


No, I don't think so. It was questionable when you were having problems earlier. In all honesty, I am not an AMD guy although I have built AMD systems for clients. Your temps *seem* to be high to me but they may be within normal limits. I wish some other AMD people would have chimed in with their oppinions. You never said anything about your case airflow. What kind of case, how many fans, what size and where are they positioned? Did you take these temps with the case open or closed?
November 24, 2007 4:20:44 PM

Raged said:
Hi,

Not much to add.

I spent about an hour looking for the cool 'n quiet option in my Bios and I could not find it. Even when there is advanced values that can be reached in my bios with Ctrl + F1, there was not anything seemed to Cool'n quiet :( 


So, I was not able to make my CPU Cooler work at its max speed, at least not today. I read that an option would be connect the fan cooler directly to the power supply via 3 pins adapter (got one with a Zalman cooler installed in my vidcard), but I would lose the temp readings, right :??: 

I set Easy Tunes to 70C as max temp and it let me play 3 followed maps of UT3 demo, which is very heavy in terms of resources use. That was good, but inmediately I stopped playing went into Easy Tune and the temp was in 68C :o 

I am getting crazy. Few minutes ago, I was going to uninstall my new CPU cooler in order to install the AMD stock fan cooler that came with my 3200+ processor, but I did not that because something could get hurt. Yeah, coward, haha.


Otherwise, do you think that I could have gotten a faulty CPU? As I said before, it seems to be ok while working. The big problem are the temps.

Bye,


Cool and Quiet should be there but... it won't make your load temps lower. I only lower idle temps by 4c with cool and quiet enabled.

I have a 4200 x2 and my temps are ~30c idle and 45c under load with an AC Freezer Pro 64 cooler. You could install the scock cooler to see if that is your problem. Load temps won't be great but idle should be below 35c.

If you run CPU-Z, what does it come up with for your cpu? Your board supports the 4200 with bios F7 and later. You should be OK.

Faulty CPU... don't thing so but you never know. Max temp for your cpu is 65 - 70c. It should shut off after 70c. Does this happen?
November 25, 2007 12:58:18 AM

Sorry, was out of town for a couple of days.

Ok guys,

I already had SmartFan disabled. I am one of those that like to know the fan cooler is running at max speed. Dont care so much about noise, because I play with headphones :lol:  . So I think that my current fan cooler is running at its max speed (or at max it can go).

Yeah, that idea about connect the fan cooler to another power source disliked me since I read it. Never tried it, I never will.

Ah, and the Zalman Cooler is installed in my videocard, to help it with overclock :sweat:  . I would like to have a Zalman Cooler for my CPU (I think I will get one soon) What I have is a Ultra X Wind that now I think it is the guilty of my overheating problem. It is suppose to work at max speed of 2800, but It cant reach 2500 and also it does not has heatpipes or something special. :fou: 

Yeah Timinator, you are right. I never said anything about my case airflow. The point it that since the problems started, I have my case open. Anyway I have a exhaust bay at front and 2 80mm fan (in/out). So as you could see, the problem would be major if I closed my case.

Its nice to know that my processor does not seems be a faulty one. :) 

Look at my CPU-Z reading (I think is normal)



r-sky: Since the first day I installed my new CPU, my PC started to shut down suddenly, then I found that my problem was overheating. The temps reading are always different, but I am sure that my CPU was shutting down when it reached its max temp. :heink: 

the_ogs: Friend, even when they are practically the same, beyond some special features, the GA-K8NS mainboard is not the mine. Mine is GA-K8NS Ultra 939 which has as lastest bios, the F10.

Oh guys, believe me. Even when I have not solved my problem, I have learned a lot with this thread. Thank you very much.

Regards,

November 25, 2007 2:12:08 AM

I remember some time ago I had overheat problems with an athlon xp.

My story in a few words, I almost burnt the cpu, after that I had many problems with temp, the cpu reached 70°C and shutted down. Everything was 'ok', thermal grease, etc etc. I cleaned everything and did everything again. Now it was better, but still very hot.
The solution was to clean the dissipator very good (the least important part) and to 'clean' the cpu surface with a sharp blade. Doing that the temp lowered to ~50°C. The problem was that the burned aluminium did not conduct heat (it was a very little section on the surface that had another color).

Maybe for some reason your cpu has conduction problems on its surface ^^;.
November 26, 2007 2:59:26 AM

Just pick up one of those inexpensive CPU water cooling kits. That should take care of a few degrees of heat. :)  I really don't have any more ideas I can toss out to help. Your CPU cooler (Ultra X) should be sufficient. I hope someone else that has more knowledge with AMD chips can take over... Good luck!
a c 125 à CPUs
November 26, 2007 3:35:22 AM

well it looks like you are just down to a CPU cooler issue now. maybe a cheap new cooler(arctic cooling freezer?) is the best option, All the voltages look fine. in speed fan Vcore1 is CPU and 2 is RAM.....so it looks ok.....
December 2, 2007 2:31:34 AM

You should consider lapping your CPU and heatsink. The CPU has about a 1/16" (?) plate of copper over it which can be lapped to increase the contact between the heatsink and the CPU's core. Lapping the heatsink further increases the contact. If you do it correctly, you could probably drop your temps another 5-15c.
!