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Ok Phenom sucks... Help me pick out some Intel stuff, please...

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November 20, 2007 3:14:40 AM

I have come to the realization that the phenom launch is a flop. However I have spent almost the last month to researching that AMD/ATI build. Now that I don’t quite feel like waiting another 2 months for THAT hardware to come out could someone please help me determine what Intel hardware I would want?

So far I have a budget for a CPU/GPU/MOBO of 1000ish. I already have Vista64 Ultimate.

CPU

I pretty much have no choice other than a Q6600 or is a Q6700 worth the extra $$. I do plan on learning how to OC. I already have a Thermaltake V1 Cpu cooler.

Chipset
I'm very confused with the Intel based motherboards on the market at the moment. "this only supports this but not that yadda yadda yadda". I want motherboard that supports 4GB of DDR2 1066 that I already have: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?Product...

GPU
And I'm not sure If I want to Crossfire 2 HD3870's or wait for 8800GT's to come down from cloud 9....on another planet...(Not even sure if I want 8800GTs though, Aren’t they having heat issues as well as deficiency issues?) I run 1680x1050res and Like to play FPS. (TF2, COD4, Supreme Commander, UT3, Crysis. I also have 2 thermaltake duorb coolers for the cards) But I definatly want a card that can handle those games, If not 2 cards! And a mobo that supports SLI and or Crossfire.

I donno... You tell me.

Other Thoughts
Should I just wait for the $300 range penryn thats supposed to be around in janurary? I dont feel like waiting any longer TBH... I can always upgrade sometime next year.

Any Informative Information would be greatly appreciated.
November 20, 2007 6:16:20 AM

Go Q6600. The only reason the other one is priced higher is because of the higher clock, and we both know you can blow the doors of that with OC. No need to wait for Yorkfield (Penryn is for laptops). An OCed Q6600 will run right along with a similarly priced Yorkfield. Plus, I believe they're only releasing the high test versions in January ($$$$).

You can do a lot with the chipset, it's up to you. A chipset has more impact on the GPU selection than anything else. If you want dual 3870's, you MUST get an x38 (well, there are other options, but still). If you want SLI anything, you'll need an nVidia mobo. If you want a single anything, you can go with P35 and not loose out.

I'm actually doing the preliminary research for a build I'm putting together in the next few weeks. Q6600 is confirmed. I'm leaning heavily toward P35 and the (to be release on Dec. 3rd) G92 GTS. However, I am putting some thought into x38 and dual 3870s. I have a thread going over at the GPU board where people are helping me figure this out. The title is "G92 GTS vs. 2x HD 3870"

Good luck.
November 20, 2007 6:44:46 AM

Yea definitely go with the Q6600, and get alt east 2gb if ram, but with your vista 64 I would go with the ones linked below.

Memory: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Motherboard suggestion: For crossfire - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
not for crossfire - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
The IP35 chipset only runs the 2nd card @ 4x, but it will not affect performance very much if even at all.

I would go with the 3870 (single, not crossfire), and I believe it will easily last you a year @ that res...I am actually doing the same thing, but it is so cheap that if you need to upgrade within a year you could sell it on ebay or something cut your minor losses and go for a new generation of better cards. (remember this card may be ~10 - 15% slow than the 8800gt, but it is quieter, uses less power, has more features, and costs less...that is why I am getting it, just thought I would share some reasoning on why not to wait for the 8800GT...the waiting game sucks...lol I know how you feel)

Hopefully some of this helps. I have class in 5 hours so I suppose I will call it a night, but will check back to see if I can help more tomorrow.

Best,

3Ball
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November 20, 2007 6:46:26 AM

If you have the money, and you're going single card, a g92 GTS is the only solution, IMHO.

Dual ATI: x38, period. You can get a Foxconn x38 mobo that runs DDR2 or DDR3 for $230, which is a marginal increase in price compared to the IP35's highlighted above. The FSB OCing is limited to about 430, but that gives you plenty of headroom with a Q6600.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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November 20, 2007 7:19:56 AM

I would go with this:
Q6600 Upgrade later, if you think you need it (doubt you will for awhile since your going to OC it)
3870 GPU (single for now) I'd get this and wait for the x38's or another xFire mobo's to come out. I think x38's are just way too expensive for what you don't really get.
Mobo I'd look at this or an Asus P5k:
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3P Rev 2.0 LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Ultra Durable 2, Ultra Cooling Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

With this setup you can use your existing DDR2 1066mHz RAM on the cheap (sort of). Then in a year or so you can drop the mobo and move your DDR2/GPU/CPU over to a xFire mobo (hopefully much cheaper than now) and add 1-3 more 3870's if that is still a viable and worthwhile proposition. Otherwise, just sell the mobo/GPU and get the latest single/SLI/xFire mobo out there. Then you'll be set for quite some time.
November 20, 2007 10:23:34 AM

I like the P5E from Asus for an X38 chipset.

If that's out of range the P5K-E as a P35 is a great chipset and a good alternative to X38 if you plan on using a single card.

Find a shop that'll sell a GUARENTEED G0 Q6600 like ClubIT or Tankguys. Q6700 isn't worth the extra money.

HD3870X2s are "supposed" to compete with 8800 Ultras... and with the X38 you can run 2 X2s.

Edit: Both boards also have an 8 phase power design to deal with the load a quad will put on it. Plus Voltage Damper option in the BIOS is just amazing.
November 20, 2007 11:21:26 AM

Just as an alternate opinion, my plan is to get an e2160 (you may opt for the faster e4300) soon. My reasoning is that I will use it to learn to overclock and save some money while still getting great performance (near e6850 in some cases according to the article on Tom's). I plan to use the money I saved to put toward a Penryn whenever I feel there is one worth getting.

You can't go wrong with the Q6600 and if you have the money to buy it and a new Penryn in a few months, go for it. This is just my plan for saving some money short term and allowing me to overclock.
November 20, 2007 12:08:48 PM

I'd go with Q6600 G0, Asus P5K-E, P35,
HD3870 (if building today) or
G92 GTS (if building in 2 weeks or later and it's worth the extra money).

Intel X38 is the only real option if you want the CrossFire option.
As for SLI the only real option right now is 680i.
The Nvidia 780i chipset is also due in the near future
(upgrade to PCI-E 2.0, improved penryn support, otherwise it's a 680i).







November 20, 2007 1:12:34 PM

Wow thanks for all the feedback. I really appreciate it. I was looking at that foxconn before because its seems fairly future proof. But right now I'm sorta leaning tward's the Asus p5e

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Im not sure If I want to spend the extra money on the Maximus formula or not. The reviews on Newegg or horrible for them, But I know a guy who has it and he loves it. So I'm very confused about it in that regard. If anyone knows anything about that let me know.

At least with that board I can get 2 3870's now, and a few months after the 3870x2's come out I could Sell the 3870's and get the 3870x2s. Mmmmm 4gpu's.... :D 

Im surprised people say the new 45nm procs arnt that big a step from the 65nm? Kinda confused on that one... (keep in mind I would wait for one to be in the $300 range).

Thanks again for all the help. I can't wait to get everything Picked out. I already have everything else sitting here waiting for a GPU/CPU/Mobo.
November 20, 2007 2:04:29 PM

I have the maximus formula s/e (the one with the waterblock built into the nb) and I love it. I think that asus might have had some problems with their initial stock of this series of boards, as I had to rma my first one due to a defective IDE controller (but hey thats what you get for buying on the day they came out!) I believe that all of these problems have been sorted through, and I love my board now--It overclocks so well its scary, and has lots of cool features like the back panel cmos button, on board power and reset, and led showing the level of voltage load on specfic components--i.e. as if the volatge is too high ther change color.

Plus, as many have said here, if you want to go crossfire then theres no better choice than x38, with the 2 full pcie 2.0 slots running at x16.

I've got one hd3870 on the way and am waiting for a restock to buy a second.

hopes this helps!
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November 20, 2007 3:49:57 PM

The key question for you is how much graphics power do you need? Will a powerful single card like a 8800GTX-OC run what you want now? I find it hard to imagine that it won't, but you may have special needs/desires. If you can run with a single great card, then all else is simple. You can get a less expensive mobo, a less expensive PSU, Less cooling for your case,...etc. The recently launched 8800GT cards may even approach the 8800GTX, and nvidia is supposed to launch an upgraded 8800GTS on dec 2. If true, it would be good to wait and see if it will obsolete the 8800GTX. If you bought a EVGA 8800GTX, you might be able to "step-up" if a faster card became available in 90 days.

If a single card will not do, then you are looking at SLI or crossfire with multiple cards. The increase in performance is variable, depending on the game. It will vary from nothing to 50% increase, or so, not double, like you might think.

Buy what you want for now, and do not consider "future proofing" In about a year, when nehalem arrives, you will be looking at new sockets, chipsets, processors, ddr3 memory, all of which renders most or your current components obsolete.

The Q6600 is a good choice, but it will be hot, particularly if you get the old stepping. For the same price, I would look at the E6850. It generates less heat, and is clocked higher, right out of the box. There are very few games today that will actually use more than two cores(flight simulator x, for example). By the time 4 core games are available, nehalem will be here. Why not take advantage of a higher clock now? If overclocking, I think you could go higher with the E6850 if you needed to. If you will be doing lots of multitasking while you are playing games, then a quad would be better.

I like 4gb, and vista-64. Go to the crucial web site, and use their memory configurator to check to see if your memory is compatible with any motherboard you are considering. As long as it works, good. Don't worry about the fsb speed, it will be ok.

The difference in real application performance(vs. synthetic benchmarks) among motherboards , chipsets, and memory/fsb speeds is minimal, in the 2-3% range. Performance is largely determined by the processor. Buy a mobo on the basis of quality, support , features, and price. The P35 boards have been out long enough to have their bugs worked out, and I recommend them. No vga cards saturate the pci-e 1.0 bus today, let alone the 2.0 bus. In the future, that might change, but it is no reason to get a X38 board today.

---good luck---
November 20, 2007 4:11:26 PM

geofelt said:


The Q6600 is a good choice, but it will be hot, particularly if you get the old stepping. For the same price, I would look at the E6850. It generates less heat, and is clocked higher, right out of the box. There are very few games today that will actually use more than two cores(flight simulator x, for example). By the time 4 core games are available, nehalem will be here. Why not take advantage of a higher clock now? If overclocking, I think you could go higher with the E6850 if you needed to. If you will be doing lots of multitasking while you are playing games, then a quad would be better.


Mad...you're all mad!

The Q6600 is the only option right now, period, end of sentence. So many professional reviewers have drawn this conclusion that it's a moot point to argue (would you like sources and citations?). The Q6600 is not a hot running proc, and has been proven to OC up to 3.7 and beyond on air (would that be possible on a "hot" CPU??). 3.2 is child's play, and essentially guranteed out of the box. A Q6600 will equal and exceed intel's best extreme, and all this at well under 50*C. Many people are happy with stock cooling at 3.2. Me, personally...I'm going with a Zalman, but I intend to push to somewhere around 3.4.

I really don't want to come right out and say it, but a lot of these guys are confused and misinformed. If you're building something up, Q6600 is the only way to go. Graphics wise, you can choose what you want, but I'll tell you after hours upon hours of research I'm leaning heavily on a single eVGA g92 GTS for several reasons.

Don't worry about upgrades, as when it comes time to upgrade you'll need to do a rebuild anyway.

Again, good luck.
November 20, 2007 4:53:10 PM

Yes I realize that the Q6600 Is the way to go, and thats what im doing. Im getting it from clubIT where they are 100% Go stepping. The Asus Maximus x38 is what im going to do with the possibility of 2 3870x2's in the near future. I already have a Thermaltake V1 Cpu cooler as it performed exeptionally well in reviews. And I have a Antec 900 case so I have Plenty of CFM!

I.. Cant... Wait..

Well... I MIGHT wait just a few more days to see if the phenom release and whatnot will change the pricing of the Q6600 and the motherboard as well. Anyone think anything will happen? Or is it safe to just go ahead now?

Oh, and I cant thank you guys enough for the feedback. Thanks!
November 20, 2007 5:02:43 PM

I saw someone say about a G1 stepping? How come I never herd of this?
November 20, 2007 5:19:38 PM

I wouldn't hold your breath for G1. G0 is just Jim Dandy. How high to do you intend to OC? Besides, G1 will be a minor (probably unnoticeable) change compared to B3 to G0, and even B3 to G0 isn't as dramatic of a bump as many people make it out to be.

I don't think it would hurt to wait a week or so to see where prices are going to go. I doubt they'd change dramatically in that time, but it's difficult to say. I know I'm going to be waiting a few weeks to see what nVidia releases, so hopefully Intel will drop their prices by a few bucks in that time frame.
November 20, 2007 5:34:18 PM

OK I dont think G1 even exists... Anywho.. So yea Lets just talk about if its worth me waiting a week or so. Remember Nvidia is out of the picture for me. Im just concerned about Q6600 price.
November 20, 2007 5:51:35 PM

wirelessfender said:
OK I dont think G1 even exists... Anywho.. So yea Lets just talk about if its worth me waiting a week or so. Remember Nvidia is out of the picture for me. Im just concerned about Q6600 price.


I wouldn't expect the price to drop on that processor for a while...I would say its safe to buy. Even if it does drop...I would think it would be when there is a much more broad amount of available phenoms and i doubt it would be more than a few bucks. I would buy it now if it were me. Hope this helps!

Best,

3Ball
November 20, 2007 5:59:05 PM

Welcome to the Dark Side.
November 20, 2007 6:14:02 PM

lol Welcome to the dark side. yeah o/c a q6600 is easy as 1-2-3. i am a first time o/cer and it went to 3.0 no problem. but its better to be on the dark side. this time around. lol
November 20, 2007 6:48:30 PM

Yea your probably right... I think Ill buy everything tonight.

Now im just waiting for the HD3870's to come back in stock at Newegg.com. Anyone have a preferance on wich manufacture to go with? And does anyone know a place where they are in stock?
November 20, 2007 6:52:39 PM

how about the DFI Lanparty P35 with the rad green on black styling? apparently its a fracktastic board, especially for oc'ing - and i vote G92 8800GTS, thats what im waiting for
November 20, 2007 6:58:40 PM

wirelessfender said:
Yea your probably right... I think Ill buy everything tonight.

Now im just waiting for the HD3870's to come back in stock at Newegg.com. Anyone have a preferance on wich manufacture to go with? And does anyone know a place where they are in stock?


I only buy HIS ATI Cards. I'll be replacing my DFI P35-T2RL with a P5K-E when I get paid. Current board just doesn't have the balls to OC my quad past 3.3 GHz 24/7 stable.
November 20, 2007 9:20:09 PM

Q6600 with intel mobo p35 (p5k-e or deluxe) or maximus x38

1.45v, fsb375-425 but 3.6ghz is best - use good ddr like muskin ddr800 for 2:1 ratio. set a raptor raid, dual boot vista and xp add a storage drive.

add a 8800gtx and play crysis at 20fps @600p 4aa

2gb or 4gb is the question - stupid vista dx1o memory issues - i was using all 2ghz systems but i might try 4gb the reminder defults to readyboost
November 20, 2007 10:26:11 PM

Intel suggests staying below 1.35v on the Q6600 (I think they come stock at ~1.24v). If this is your first OC, I'd stay under 1.35v. 1.45, from my perspective, is really pushing the envelope.

3.4 ghz is a good number to shoot for, but you have to watch that voltage, and the temps.
November 21, 2007 1:22:58 AM

I ordered the Asus Maximus and the Q6600 G0! Thanks for the Ocing advice. This is my first OC but I am going to read up on it alot. Right now my biggest thing I need to figure out is how ocing the CPU affects Memory. I accedentaly ruined my memory once trying to OC the CPU. Im not going to do that again.. This time I have good Overcloacking memory though Balistix Tracer DDR2 1066mhz.
November 21, 2007 2:51:14 AM

wirelessfender said:
I ordered the Asus Maximus and the Q6600 G0! Thanks for the Ocing advice. This is my first OC but I am going to read up on it alot. Right now my biggest thing I need to figure out is how ocing the CPU affects Memory. I accedentaly ruined my memory once trying to OC the CPU. Im not going to do that again.. This time I have good Overcloacking memory though Balistix Tracer DDR2 1066mhz.


Set the memory to 1:1 until you find a nice stable CPU clock you are happy with.

After that you can figure out what you want to run the RAM at that the motherboard allows. Once you figure out if you want to OC it or run it close to specs get your goal and start OCing toward that.

That Ballistix has been doing DDR2-1200 pretty easily from some of what I've seen.
!