I just added a third video card to my system. As I suspected, there is no way I am going to be happy with the heat it genreates unless I go with water cooling.
Based on this thread: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/ [...] d-pictures, I've decided that I would like to cool the three video cards and the CPU with one loop. However, I will be using Swiftech parts instead of an EXOS-2 (my original plan) because I want a stronger pump and better video blocks.
Since this will be my first attempt at water cooling, I'm looking for advice on what I'll need and suggestions on the best way to set this up.
Here's a pic of my case:
Please excuse the cable mess. I just pulled everything out the other day and haven't run anything properly yet.
Here is partial tentative list of the items I'm thinking of getting:
1. I'm thinking of using a 3 fan rad and a single loop. Should I consider the other options? The other things I can think of would include multiple rads (probably smaller ones?) and/or splitting the loop and cooling 2 video cards and one card and the cpu seperately. Thoughts?
2. What should I be ordering in terms of tubing, connectors, fittings, clamps etc? I would like it to be easy to drain if needed. I'm not sure on exactly what and how much I should order. Keeping everything internal would be nice but I have no problem having rads or things outside of the case. I definitely don't want to order too much stuff, but I don't want to be missing a few crutial parts as well.
3. How about a reservoir? What size should I get? I've got two free drive bays so should I fill it up with a double drive bay reservoir? What's the reasoning behind the various sizes? Is bigger better and why?
4. Basic setup.. My main concern is the fact that the power supplies and drives are at the bottom of the case. Initially I was thinking of putting the reservoir and pump on the right side of the case above the drives. However, I'm worried about losing the drives (and data) if things go bad. I could move the drives by putting two in the front middle of (the big empty space) and putting the other two in the 5.25 drive bays. That would then let me empty out drives and fan from the bottom of the case. My question is would it be in my best interest to do this? In the event of things going bad would the drives being above the pump and reservoir likely save them from frying? Keep in mind that the power supply will still be at the bottom. Should I go through the trouble or should I just backup everything to an external drive because I'd be screwed either way? I'm not worried about hardware failure nearly as much as I am about data loss.
5. Where should I put the rad? I was thinking maybe at the top of the case where the two fans presently exhaust, but there might not be enough room. Any other thoughts? I would consider mounting it outside of the case (on top). Is that a good idea or should I do something else?
I'll leave it at this. I would appreciate any advice and suggestions to be had. Please note that I already own the system and 3 videocards so I see no point in debating whether or not I should get 3 cards. I just need to know the best way to deal with cooling them now that I have them. If you need any further information, please let me know. I plan to order everything in the next week or two (the sooner the better).
In parting, I wanted to say that my main goal is to reduce the heat generated by my system to a reasonable level (presently the cards are 80 degrees at idle). If I can get them into the mid 50's I would be happy. That being said, if I can get everything low enough without going crazy, I would love to be able to overclock things. That's not a priority though. Thanks.
Message edited by Paul Benden on 03-13-2008 at 06:09:04 AM
Two separate loops - one with two GPUs and one with a CPU/GPU - would definitely be better. That means six fans, two rads (360s), two pumps, and two res/Ts. I would suggest you go with Ts with fillports to save space and give you a quick means to drain your loops. You also can put your drive bays to other uses.
I put together a parts list from www.jab-tech.com. Prices for most parts are a little cheaper than yours.
I'd switch the Apogee GTX for a Fuzion, and the Stealth 2s for the MCW60-Rs. There's questions about the aluminum tops in the GTX and the Stealths and the possibility of galvanic corrosion, so it's just safe to avoid the whole issue. I include BI rads, but the Swiftech MCR360s would do well, too. Newegg has those for about $45.
I included 15' of 7/16" ID tubing, clamps, Ts and fillports. I also included additives to be mixed with Distilled water. Liquid Utopia is and all-in-one additive. It would be cool to get different colors for your two loops.
Mounting the two rads might be a challenge. I included two rad boxes that could be used to mount on on the back and one on top. There are other possibilities.
Message edited by TonyL222 on 03-13-2008 at 02:14:16 PM
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Intel Q6700 Quad/D-Tek Fuzion V1 with 2xPA120.3/ASUS Maximus II Formula/PCP&C Silencer 750/Corsair Dominator 4Gb PC28500 memory/Corsair Dominator Fan
VisionTek Radeon HD 4870/Swiftech MCW60-R/Raptor 150GB HDD 1 X WD Caviar SE16 500GB HDD/Mountain Mods
Sounds just about right. I was expecting to spend about $800 and your suggestions come in below that. I had wanted to avoid 2 seperate loops with 2 pumps, but it's definitely cheaper than I expected.
I take it then that there isn't an actual need for a reservoir? I like the idea of no reservoirs because they I could easily move my hard drives higher in the case and put two pumps in the bottom.
Does anyone else have suggestions or comments about mine or Tony's suggested setups?
Paul, I updated my original post so take another look. I'd welcome a look/comments from others just to make sure I didn't forget anything.
No, you don't need a res if you use a T. The downside of a T is that bleeding (getting the excess air out) takes longer - many hours (possibly a day, instead of a couple of hors with a res).
NOTE: Correct the word in BOLD
Message edited by TonyL222 on 03-13-2008 at 02:53:22 PM
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Intel Q6700 Quad/D-Tek Fuzion V1 with 2xPA120.3/ASUS Maximus II Formula/PCP&C Silencer 750/Corsair Dominator 4Gb PC28500 memory/Corsair Dominator Fan
VisionTek Radeon HD 4870/Swiftech MCW60-R/Raptor 150GB HDD 1 X WD Caviar SE16 500GB HDD/Mountain Mods
I haven't put any effort into trying to cool the existing setup with fans. My reasoning is the fact that there is no room for the fans to pull air in to cool the cards.
I do have options for fan cooling. The side has a 200mm fan and I can put two fans in front of the cards (one at the front of the case and one right in the middle). However, I still feel that I wouldn't get enough benifit from the fans to justify even trying. The video card fans wouldn't likely be able to pull in enough air to show any benefit from any added fans. I guess I could get different coolers for the cards themselves, but why bother when water cooling has a high probability of giving amazing results and I'm willing to spend the money. I've been dealing with heat issues for years now. This isn't my first 3 card system I had 3 video cards back in the 3dfx days. I'm sick of having to worry about how hot my video cards are.
I actually ordered the water cooling parts that Tony suggested. I'm just making room in my case now for when everything arrives. I'll post pictures and details later.
Message edited by Paul Benden on 03-14-2008 at 04:44:55 AM
The only thing I think I missed is 4 quick connect fittings so that I can install everything after testing without needing to re-run lines. It will aslo make taking things apart much easier. I'm also going to buy the single L brackets for my 3 video cards so that I can run some of my tubing out through the back without having to cut any holes into my case.
3 x 6" SATA II Cable - Clear Silver GC6ATASM = $7.47
3 x 10" SATA II Cable - Clear Silver GC10ATASM = $8.85
1 x 10" single device IDE cable **UV RED** = $2.99
I figure the smaller cables will go a long way towards cleaning up my cable mess. The ones I have are 8" to 12" too long.
Here's what I've done so far to get ready for the water cooling equipment:
I moved the 3rd power supply from the bottom 5.25" slot to just below the cd-rom. I then moved all four hard drives from the bottom of the case up into the front center and top of the case. I used brackets to mount two of the drives in 5.25" bays. Finally I removed the fan in the bottom center of the case to the front center of the case. It now blows directly on my two mirrored drives in the front of the case.
Now that I've got the drives moved, I can put the pumps at the bottom right side of the case. As you can see, I've got a convinient hole in that chamber to run the water lines. I also have to ports at the back of the case for water lines. The holes are 30 mm so I hope I can manage two lines per hole. However, now that I'm getting the single L brackets for the video cards, I've got lots of options for getting stuff in and out of my case.
I was originally going to get some quick disconnect nozzles from Koolance, but I decided against it. Mainly because I would need at least 4 sets and with shipping it would probably cost me close to $100. I've decided that I'm just going to build the two water loops in place in my system. I'm going to run them in place without any power to the computer for testing purposes. If I decide that I really want quick disconnect nozzles, I can always and them in later.
1. I couldn't run the tubing the way I wanted so I needed to drill some holes in the case. This problem has been resolved.
2. The intake and output on my cpu block are so close together that I can't put my plastic tube clamps on both. I clamped down my intake only to find that I had no room to clamp down the output. I'm thinking of trying to get some of those metal clamps instead. I think I can get some good ones at a local hardware store. I would like to avoid having to order them if possible.
3. I have the same issue with the video card blocks. The plastic clamps are way too big to be used. Metal ones will likely solve this problem.
4. I'm having a hard time getting the tubing onto the video card blacks. Due to the memory heatsinks, it's a really tight fit. I have removed the heatsinks and I'm going to try again tonight. I think I'm going to try and hook up most of the tubing outside of the case.
5. Due to various reasons (which I'm not going to get into), I have destroyed the thermal pads on most of my video card memory heatsinks. At present I think I'm going to pull them all off and use Artic Silver Alumina Thermal Adhesive on all of them (mainly because I can get it locally). I just need to make sure that it's the right thing to do.
I'm hoping that I can get everything working. If not, I'm prepared to consider getting the Koolance VID-282 blocks instead of my current blocks. They may not be as good and I would be cooling 3 items on one loop (with no rad in between), but they would be a lot easier to setup. When I hit the brick wall last night, I was ready to order the koolance blocks first thing this morning. After sleeping on it, I'm going to give my existing blocks another try.
1. Most of us end up drilling holes in the case. If they case has holes, it seems they are never where you want them and/or aren't wide enough.
2. I had the same issue but was able to have attach them slightly staggered - one clamp all the way down touching the base of the barb and the other slightly higher. If that doesn't work, use small zip ties. The small ones are easier to pull tightly. I'f double them up on each barb. Worm clams might work, too.
3. same
5. Different GPU block, but I had a hard time getting the heat sinks to stick. I cleaned things off pretty good with Arctic Clean and they still wouldn't stick. I ended up sticking a toothpick down the tube opening of superglue, rubbing the trace of superglue on the heat sinks, and attaching it to the memory. Hasn't come lose yet :-)
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Intel Q6700 Quad/D-Tek Fuzion V1 with 2xPA120.3/ASUS Maximus II Formula/PCP&C Silencer 750/Corsair Dominator 4Gb PC28500 memory/Corsair Dominator Fan
VisionTek Radeon HD 4870/Swiftech MCW60-R/Raptor 150GB HDD 1 X WD Caviar SE16 500GB HDD/Mountain Mods
For #5, super glue caused my problem. I had the exact same issue even after cleaning so I used glue. I then decided to remove the heatsinks which destroyed most of my pads because I used too much crazy glue.
Now I'm in a situation where I have to put the heatsinks back on but most of the thermal pads are destroyed. Ideally I would like to use just Artic Silver 5, but it's not an adhesive. I'm a little scared about using the Artic Silver Adhesive because it's pretty much a permanent thing. Once I stick them on, they're not coming off.
For #5, super glue caused my problem. I had the exact same issue even after cleaning so I used glue. I then decided to remove the heatsinks which destroyed most of my pads because I used too much crazy glue.
Aw man!!! that's why I said a "trace" of superglue."
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Intel Q6700 Quad/D-Tek Fuzion V1 with 2xPA120.3/ASUS Maximus II Formula/PCP&C Silencer 750/Corsair Dominator 4Gb PC28500 memory/Corsair Dominator Fan
VisionTek Radeon HD 4870/Swiftech MCW60-R/Raptor 150GB HDD 1 X WD Caviar SE16 500GB HDD/Mountain Mods
The tubing goes up from the pump and out of the case. It connects to the top radiator. From there is goes back into the case to the cpu->video card and then it will go back into the pump (the last tube isn't connected yet).
Where should I put the fill port? My initial intention was to put it in between the video card and the pump. However, based on what I've got now, it looks like that would be a tight fit. Would it be horrible if I put it on the nice long easily accessible tube coming out of the pump (the one that goes outside of the case)? I believe it's not ideal because the air bubbles would go through the pump first. Should I avoid doing this because of that? The second loop will have a similar setup. If it helps, my plan is to fill the system while the computer is laying flat on its side.
My other issue is simply the amount of tubing that is going to be around the video cards. I initialy tried to get the second loops two video cards in the bottom two slots so that I would have an easier time of getting them out. However, due to the fact that I'm having a hard time convincing my tubing to make such a sharp turn (from video card to video card), it looks like I'm going to need to put the second loops cads in the top and bottom slots. This means that the card attached to the CPU will be right in the middle. I can obviously make it all fit, but taking cards out will be an absolute nightmare.