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why should i go with 3870 and not 8800gt?

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November 23, 2007 4:18:52 PM

Hi all,

Let imagine that the price is not an issue, we dont care about 10.1 directx, we can find 8800gt in the market and we are not going to OC.

Why we should by a HD3870 instead of a 8800gt?


this is a genuine question, please excuse my noobism :) 

More about : 3870 8800gt

November 23, 2007 4:22:59 PM

I had the same dilema, could choose between 3870 and 8800GT and picked ATI.

Why? Two reasons:
1) 3870 is really silent, since I leave PC on 24/7, its important feature to me.
2) I have P35 MB and I can make Crossfire, if I would want it.
November 23, 2007 4:32:10 PM

You should't. If that was the case with everyone. The 8800gt is the faster card. I'm not saying its better because that is a matter of opinion. It also depends on other factors.

1. Heat is lightly lower on the 3870.

2. Slightly better decoding (emphasing slightly)

3. I think the 3870 can run 2 full screen monitors and the 8800gt can't but don't quote me on that 1.

4. Personal preference to a brand.
Related resources
November 23, 2007 4:36:31 PM

Also Harrisson's reason are good ones. I also have a crossfire mobo so 3870 would make more sense to me too.

I would have just edited my last post but for some reason the stupid forum isn't letting me edit anything. So sorry for the extra post.
November 23, 2007 4:38:24 PM

PowerColor's HD 3850 Xtreme 512MB!  wow it kicks butt the 8800GT in the ass.


Performance


Temperature

reference: http://www.elitebastards.com
more room for more overclocking?

Price around $200-$220... so why buy $300 8800GT when it is slow, more heat, pricey, no more features to unleash, whatever...just very stupid.
November 23, 2007 4:45:29 PM

Thanks for the input, all the reason are perfectly valid.

The only reason i asked all this, was because i have a x1950pro and after all the games that came out lately, i noticed my card was suffering a lot (and me) :) 

I'm concern if the performance of the 3870 is enough to play the latest games at full (1680x1050).

I know Crysis is an exception, but what about blacksite area51, gears of war, etc?
Is the card enough? (Imagine a good matching cpu&memo).

My other though was, ok, if is not enough in 6 months, I can Crossfire and that’s it. But that area is black for me, is Crossfire working fine?

Sorry all the questions, that’s what’s in my mine right now :)  :)  :) 


EDIT: Sorry pogsnet, didn't see you last post. Let me check that review, i wasnt aware of this xtremme card!
November 23, 2007 4:48:41 PM

I think the above Crysis benchmark was specifically picked (over countless other ones) to highlight one tiny area where the ATI card exceeds the Nvidia card. If you are eager to play Crisis at 9 FPS, PLEASE go out and buy that ATI card... if you want a card that outperforms the ATI at virtually every other benchmark, well the choice is obvious assuming price, heat and multiple GPUs aren't issues. All things added up, they're about equal cards... but if you're strictly looking for performance, Nvidia all the way!

Here's a link to a wide variety of benchmarks comparing the two cards... not one ultra-extreme benchmark showing both cards under 10 FPS.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=703
November 23, 2007 4:53:09 PM

u2vini

Ignore pogsnet's post. Only read the full review not just this crappy graph This idiot has been posting this all over the forum. Its the only benchmark were it wins. I posted a thread with the original review in there.

If you can get a 8800gt and money isn't a problem buy 1. Its about 4x more powerful than your x1950pro.
November 23, 2007 4:57:49 PM

rodney_ws

The point is that the graph and review is for an overclocked 3850 not a 3870. And the real comparison is with the 8800gts not an 8800gt.

Every other benchmark has an 8800gts in it with 8800gt.
November 23, 2007 5:02:11 PM

Pogsnet, I just read the review you gave us.

The performance of the card is in every case (a couple of exceptions) behind the 880gt, with bigger numbers when filters are applied.

As i see it, the card technologically is better, but slower also.

I don’t know if the heat is an issue, are people reporting problems because of this? or is just the fact is hot? (Honestly asking).

Here in Canada, the prices are very similar 240 vs 260.

I'm not taking sides here, since i'm asking for advice. My main concern was the one I put up here, is the card enough to play actual games? For how long I will be able to use it with out buy another or Crossfire it?
November 23, 2007 5:20:57 PM

Wow, so many posts in so few minutes! :) 

Anyways, thanks for the input, i think i made my mind with the 8800gt.
November 23, 2007 5:23:07 PM

gpippas said:
rodney_ws

The point is that the graph and review is for an overclocked 3850 not a 3870. And the real comparison is with the 8800gts not an 8800gt.

Every other benchmark has an 8800gts in it with 8800gt.

I really don't see the point of that graph at all as it shows an OC'd ATI vs. a non OC'd Nvidia... and neither card is performing at an acceptable level in the chosen benchmark. If that's considered a victory, it's a very hollow one for ATI.
November 23, 2007 5:55:22 PM

pogsnet said:
PowerColor's HD 3850 Xtreme 512MB! wow it kicks butt the 8800GT in the ass.


Performance
http://www.elitebastards.com/hanners/powercolor/3850xtreme/charts/crysis-1600aa.png

Temperature
http://www.elitebastards.com/hanners/powercolor/3850xtreme/charts/gpu-temp.png
reference: http://www.elitebastards.com
more room for more overclocking?

Price around $200-$220... so why buy $300 8800GT when it is slow, more heat, pricey, no more features to unleash, whatever...just very stupid.


Dude! You're like a spam bot. And one with weird ass phrases too. How can smth. kick the butt of smth. in the ass?

What? Did you just buy the 3850 and now you're having second thoughts and instead of admitting you're trying to give false advice to others? The card is very good considering price/performance but it doesn't beat the 8800GT so get over it!

And what about that guy who posted this review? Didn't he tell you to stop posting this BS?

Seriously, how old are you?
I really hope you're a child or an adolescent at most because otherwise... it would be sad.
November 23, 2007 6:32:25 PM

Buy the HD 3870 for the sheer fact it will make the Nvidia fanboys irate and post more dribble over a few precious fps. Choice is yours but considering your mobo supports xfire I know I would go that route. I do have a 8800 GTX and looking forward to the 3870 x2 for a pair of those in xfire since my mobo supports it. Ati is well known for offering better image quality and that's what I want, a video card for it's graphics, not something overclocked for a couple more fps.
November 23, 2007 6:49:16 PM

u2vini said:
Hi all,

Let imagine that the price is not an issue, we dont care about 10.1 directx, we can find 8800gt in the market and we are not going to OC.

Why we should by a HD3870 instead of a 8800gt?


this is a genuine question, please excuse my noobism :) 


The X3870's are about as hard to find as the 8800GT's right now. Me, I plan to stick with AMD for my next dual core processor and go hybrid crossfire in January. Nvidia's coming out with a similar hybrid SLI as well. That's a setup where the onboard DX10 graphics work alongside the discrete graphics card. That makes a one card setup much nicer.

I actually like the X3870 over the 8800GT. It does well on newer game engines and I don't see five or so fps difference in Crysis as an issue. Even if DX10.1 isn't important now, it will be later. It runs cooler and quieter and since one of the games it does well in is Oblivion, then that shows it will do well in the next Elder Scrolls title using the Gamebryo engine. It should do well in Fallout 3 too.

If you prefer FPS over RPGs or RTS's, if you play older FPS like UT2004, then perhaps you'd do better with an 8800GT? The way things are going, I'll have to settle for an X3850 if I want one by Christmas. Even there, I'd prefer a 512 meg version over one with 256 megs. As far as it goes, X2900XT performance with half the power and noise isn't too bad either. Sure beats an X2600XT or an 8600GTS.


a b U Graphics card
November 23, 2007 7:20:10 PM

pogsnet said:
PowerColor's HD 3850 Xtreme 512MB! wow it kicks butt the 8800GT in the ass.

Price around $200-$220... so why buy $300 8800GT when it is slow, more heat, pricey, no more features to unleash, whatever...just very stupid.
Your sins have found you out.

A factory overclocked 3850! and only $199 (if you can find it??). It does have that nice aftermarket style cooler.
Ok.. that EB review shows for an 11% price increase you get:
HD 3850 stock 670Mhz -> 720Mhz or 50Mhz / less than 8% OC Earlier review shows 8800GT Factory OC with 19% price increase got 16% OC.
The 8800GT has a lifetime warranty to go with that factory OC. The Powercolor has a 1 year warranty.(from this thread Why is 8800GT better than 3870)

I also thought the conclusions EliteBastards wrote were VERY INTERESTING. Also worth reading all of the article of course. [:wr2:5]

November 23, 2007 7:33:07 PM

WR2

I actually have a thread with some more reviews of that card. I started the thread and then pogsnet went to the review took 1 graph out of it and then started posting BS about the card all over the forum.

Heres the link

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/246497-15-powercolor-hd3850-xtreme-budget-card-market

I also agree it does look very interesting but because of pogsnet posting this rubbish everywhere nobody has actually bothered reading the article.
a b U Graphics card
November 23, 2007 7:45:36 PM

It's too bad really. I'd have no trouble recommending any 3850 over a 8600GTS. Also recommending any 3870 over a 2900XT or 8800GTS/320.
Im sure people have already figured out what he's about.

I think he's bugged because he's got a new system with CF motherboard and 8800GTS that is less than a month old.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/246081-31-what#bas
November 23, 2007 7:53:08 PM

If you wanted silence you could have waited for a HR03 GT and put a 20DBA fan on it, that would be virtually silent.
November 23, 2007 8:03:21 PM

well i bought a HD 3870 over a 8800GT to upgrade from my X1900XT 512mb because it was in stock and cheaper and it can get better with new drivers and it overclocks upto 860mhz(777mhz stock) & 1300mhz (2600mhz) 1125mhz(2250mhz)
and its quite even @ 70% i cant hear it over the normal case fan noise.

i can play Crysis @ 1680x1050 on high
November 23, 2007 8:03:31 PM

Quote:
It's too bad really. I'd have no trouble recommending any 3850 over a 8600GTS. Also recommending any 3870 over a 2900XT or 8800GTS/320.
Im sure people have already figured out what he's about.

I think he's bugged because he's got a new system with CF motherboard and 8800GTS that is less than a month old.


Come on thats not an excuse to go spitting out rubbish in the forum. He's posted that rubbish everywhere that a hd 3850 is better than an 8800gt. Seriously whats the point. He chose 1 benchmark in all of the reviews where the 3850 wins and its not even at playable frame rates. So why misinform other people who don't understand. What that and the other reviews show is that, that specific 3850 is comparable to the 8800gts320mb and to an extent the 8800gts 640mb let alone 8600gts. Which for the price is an incredible bargain.

As for that setup he should get a life. It shows that he has no understanding of what makes being an enthusiast enjoyable. Thats all just needless junk.

I'm not having a go at you. Its just this person has been pissing me off alday and I've been telling them to stop and they still kept posting this rubbish.
November 23, 2007 8:09:07 PM

I still find the 2900pro 1gb cards a better deal then the new ones, they are so close in performance with some overclocking would defeat the newer cards at stock.

Then theres 1gbof GDDR4 to live off of which im sure in the future would come in handy, especially when some games are starting to use over 512mb of memory.

November 23, 2007 8:09:53 PM

You don't need a 3870 now. It is $269 already
November 23, 2007 8:56:08 PM

Hatman said:
I still find the 2900pro 1gb cards a better deal then the new ones, they are so close in performance with some overclocking would defeat the newer cards at stock.

Then theres 1gbof GDDR4 to live off of which im sure in the future would come in handy, especially when some games are starting to use over 512mb of memory.


I'm curious about the X2900GT's at Newegg for about the same price as the X3850's. If I can't get an X3870, I'll get an X3850, but does anyone have a reason to go X2900GT instead?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...

Tom's just doesn't update their GPU charts often enough!
November 23, 2007 9:50:10 PM

I tested both the HD3870 and a EVGA Supercolcked 8800GT on my sons Rig. A DFI Expert, Opty 185@2.6ghz, 2gig DDR, XP Pro, 600W Silverstone PSU. I only ran 3DMARKS05. All settings were stock.

His old 7900GTX Scored 10,946
2ea EVGA 7800GTX in SLI Scored 12,753
Sapphire HD3870 Scored 14,129
EVGA 8800GT SuperClocked Scored 14,265
2ea EVGA 8800GT SuperClocked in SLI 14,408

My first thought was the 8-8 PCI-E was the bottleneck. But I was wrong. Tested one card at both 8x and 16x and same result. Ran latest Driver 106.09. Tested both PCI-E slots by themselfs. Tried older drivers and still had same result. Mabie it's my CPU that is the bottleneck. I just don't know. Hope the benchmarks help yall out.

Mike
a b U Graphics card
November 23, 2007 9:50:12 PM

gpippas wrote :
Come on thats not an excuse to go spitting out rubbish in the forum. He's posted that rubbish everywhere that a hd 3850 is better than an 8800gt.

The funny thing is [:wr2:5] - now that NewEgg has the 3870s listed @ $269.99 we'll probably seem him back here saying that price increase PROVES that 3870 is as good as 8800GT.

At this moment there are no 3870s @ NewEgg even for $269.99 but they have Leadtek PX8800GT 512MB 8800GT @ $279.99 and Shader OC MSI NX8800GT-T2D512E-OC GeForce 8800GT @ 299.99
November 23, 2007 9:52:47 PM

Best deal on 3870's is at Dell. $222 it's a VisionTek and comes with a game.
a b U Graphics card
November 23, 2007 10:03:48 PM

Good find Joe - Direct Link for bargin shoppers

Gotta love those instant savings mark downs;

Would be even more attractive if the shipping dates were better.
November 23, 2007 10:27:33 PM

rodney_ws said:
I really don't see the point of that graph at all as it shows an OC'd ATI vs. a non OC'd Nvidia... and neither card is performing at an acceptable level in the chosen benchmark. If that's considered a victory, it's a very hollow one for ATI.



Rodney, I think the best incentive to buy 3870's is.. the 8800gt sell TOO FAST and most of these end in hand of lamme ebayers ready to re-sell them to 350+++ prices..
November 23, 2007 10:35:27 PM

No the best incentive is less power, less heat and less noise.
November 23, 2007 10:41:17 PM

Hatman said:
No the best incentive is less power, less heat and less noise.

hmm, all reviews I've seen says the 8800gt is a bit louder due of its single slot configuration and fast spinning fan...

btw.. anyone got more links of 3870's in stock?
the 8800gt's are way over my limit of 270 USD..
November 23, 2007 10:43:28 PM

I'd say 3870, because it's cheaper and still a really good card. I think the 8800GT is faster, but it's more expensive. So I don't think you'd be "waisting" your money either way, but I prefer to have a little money left over.
November 23, 2007 11:02:43 PM

You shouldn't go with 3870 - unless you want a slower card for a similar price.
November 23, 2007 11:06:21 PM

ethel said:
You shouldn't go with 3870 - unless you want a slower card for a similar price.


the 8800gt's are now above 300 USD Man....
the 3870 is still in 219-240 in some places.. D:
November 24, 2007 12:16:55 AM

Yes, the 3870 is a slower card, but why? What if nvidia is sacrificing picture quality for better performance? (This was taken from a tomshardware article). In my opinion, if they had the same picture quality, both the 3870 and 8800GT would have similar performance.

Plus, even if you blatantly deny it, ATI's drivers are not fully utilizing all the hardware they've implemented in their cards. With every driver update, consumers saw a 5-10% increase in performance. Not only that, the 3870 runs cooler and it's smaller die size allows for more overclocking. I'm not saying the HD 3870 is the better card, I'm just elaborating on some of the posting that took place.

BTW, I am no fanboy. I have a 7900GS atm :) 
a b U Graphics card
November 24, 2007 2:00:55 AM

Can someone buy me a 3870 from the US? I'll save about $80 even after shipping :lol: 

Anyone seen the Zotac 8800GT? It uses a slightly modified cooler, with more vents and a larger fan. It may run quieter if the fan runs slower.
November 24, 2007 2:16:59 AM

random: theres a XFX top dog edition, wich has a larger fan too.
a b U Graphics card
November 24, 2007 2:38:31 AM

Probably a few of them, but are they any better for cooling or noise?
November 24, 2007 2:57:59 AM

I got the 3870 (when it was 225 shipped) because it was cheaper and performed a lot better than my 7800gt. It doubled all of my 3dmark scores and doubled my FPS. I see now that the 3870 is now up there with the price of the 8800gt. I always look at price/performance ratio and right now, I think nvidia has the advantage. A week ago I would have said go with the 3870 but now the advantage leans towards the 8800gt (if in stock). I am happy with my 3870 because of the price/performance ratio. I have noticed visual aspects at the same settings of the 7800gt that stands out using the 3870.

Keep in mind the ati drivers hosed up my system so I just decided to reformat my computer but was well worth it. I scored 11,000 in 3dmark06 with an OC e6400(2.9) and oc on the 3870(835/1220) that is pretty good in my book (7800 gt scored 4400). Either card should be an upgrade but just make sure to purchase for the right price.
December 7, 2007 11:25:55 PM

rodney_ws said:
I really don't see the point of that graph at all as it shows an OC'd ATI vs. a non OC'd Nvidia... and neither card is performing at an acceptable level in the chosen benchmark. If that's considered a victory, it's a very hollow one for ATI.


A NON OVERCLOCKED NVIDIA ????? They don't sell one . All their cards have to be overclocked to the max . And not to mention nvidia has to skip millions of frames in a game to get descent benchmarks .... :kaola: 
December 7, 2007 11:46:57 PM

Another thing to consider with the new ATI cards is that I'm pretty sure CrossFireX is built right into the cards, allowing you to CrossFire say a 3850 with a 3870, or with whatever other cards ATI releases in the future. That to me is a pretty big bonus, as down the road you could add a cheap 3850/70, or whatever other card ATI has out for the next wave.
December 8, 2007 1:20:46 AM

Hey guys,
I ordered 2x3870s and 1 8800gt, to use with my new asus maximus formula. Received all 3 and decided to test personally, then choose later.
Got the gt first, and played all my games. I game at 12x10, and played everything on high or max, even Crysis (High).
I played the following games and everything played perfectly, and the gt is overkill, at 12x10, except for Crysis.
Bioshock
Brother in Arms
Call of Duty
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 4
Call of Juarez
Crysis
Doom III
F.E.A.R.
Far Cry
Gears of War
Half Life 2
Half Life 2: Episode 1
Half Life 2: Episode 2
Lost Planet
Mafia
Medal of Honor
Medal of Honour: Airborne
Portal
Quake Wars: Enemy Territory
Rfactor
Stalker,
Sword of the New World
Sword of the New World
Team Fortress 2
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal Trounament 2003
Unreal Trounament 2004

I really like Crysis and Call of Duty 4. They are my favorite games.
I ran a Q6600 at 3.0 with 4gigs. The GT ran ALL games very well at 12x10. The fan is horrible when it gets loud (sound like a jet), and yes, it does overheat, but you can control that in riva tuner. Windows is also snappy, and dual screens work fine.

I then tried 2x3870s, and will admit that crossfire was buggy. Didn’t like the problems.
There was a very significant improvement on image quality compares to the gt, windows was crisper, the colors were more vibrant; and at 12x10, I can run all my games smoothly. I then tried only 1x3870, and was able to play all the games with only 1 card at 12x10, and didn’t notice a difference when overclocked to 860/1300, and the card only got to 63 degrees with the fan set to 54% in riva tuner.

In 3dmark 06, the gt scored 14,318, the 3870 scored 13264, and didn’t do 3870 crossfire yet.

So, for me, I’m going to keep 1 3870 because the games look so much better, and I can play all games at 12x10, Crysis chugs a little on High, but still very very playable.

So, I have given away the other 3870 and 8800gt to friends for Christmas, and kept 1x3870.


December 8, 2007 2:32:59 AM

DrMaV, in that list you have Medal of Honor. Is that Allied Assualt and if it is how does the 3870 and recent drivers play it? Same for the GT. I have heard that the recent drivers for Nvidia and cards don't like certain game engines those including MOH and COD/UO, not totally sure but think ATI fixed theirs to run those games.
December 8, 2007 2:46:12 AM

3870 and 8800 GT are both good cards.

I got the 3870 from NewEgg for 220.00. So it was the better deal for me.

Also it depends on if you want to crossfire/sli your cards... which one is the best bang for bucks? if you are loaded you can just grab 2 ultras for 1g........... :) 


This will be a hit card for ATI for awhile... I'm sure if you snag an 8800GT or 3870 you can resell on ebay ...


I bought an X1950 pro in july for 140 bucks off of newegg ( 120 with rebate)... I just now resold it for 100 dollars on ebay.....


So both are good cards i think..... :) 
December 8, 2007 2:48:30 AM

Medal of Honor Airborne looks pretty sweet i might need to grab that game.... hoo ah airborne..........
December 8, 2007 2:57:13 AM

pogsnet said:
PowerColor's HD 3850 Xtreme 512MB!  wow it kicks butt the 8800GT in the ass.


Performance
http://www.elitebastards.com/hanners/powercolor/3850xtreme/charts/crysis-1600aa.png

Temperature
http://www.elitebastards.com/hanners/powercolor/3850xtreme/charts/gpu-temp.png
reference: http://www.elitebastards.com
more room for more overclocking?

Price around $200-$220... so why buy $300 8800GT when it is slow, more heat, pricey, no more features to unleash, whatever...just very stupid.


How the heck is 7 FPS compared to 16 FPS a kick in the A$$ on Nvidia? What meds are you on, stay out of the medication cabnet.
December 8, 2007 5:27:21 AM

Ok guys, I just got 50 fps in crysis at 12x10 all on HIGH.

I decided to try my crossfire again for testing and benchmarking after installing the new Crysis hotfix drivers. After the testing, which included 3dmark 06 and lost planet, I decided to play Crysis for a little R&R.

At first, I thought "wow" this is so good, I think I left the settings on LOW and 10x7 ... But I didn't ... they were on HIGH at 12x10.

Went back into the game, and it was soooooo good, and I thought ... OK now I see crossfire's potential. I was using FRAPS and was showing 40-60 fps, and hovering around 50 fps constantly, while dipping at 30+ momentarily.

Now, here's the problem, I have not been able to reproduce the incident. So, AMD/ATI get those drivers working!

Well, at least we know, that there is a lot of potential with the HD3870s and crossfire with Crysis.

Can't wait for more driver releases.
December 8, 2007 7:23:07 AM

Quote:
Hey guys,
I ordered 2x3870s and 1 8800gt
......
So, I have given away the other 3870 and 8800gt to friends for Christmas, and kept 1x3870.


Omg!
Can I be your friend too?
December 8, 2007 9:02:26 AM

Hey Jakc, yes you can be my friend too ;) 

Ok ... I figured out what my problem was ... I was running Riva Tuner 2.06 and it was messing up crossfire.

So, do not use riva tuner 2.06 to control the fans on the HD cards, it just messes crossfire.

The fans will increase speed when the card gets too hot (around 90 degrees)

I was just playing call of Duty 4, and was really impressed with an average of 150fps (from 75-300fps), at 12x10 with 4xAA.

Really, Call of Duty 4 is just awesome!

What a great game!

December 8, 2007 1:32:25 PM

I say go with whatever you feel will future proof your system more. They both have damn good performance for the buck. Not to mention the price on both cards is inflated right now no matter where you go, because of holiday pricing schemes. For example that Dell link, they marked the price way up so they could do the instant holiday rebate thing, to fool people into think they were saving money.

Most of the reviews I've seen show the 3870 and 8800gt exchanging blows, even the new one from tigerdirect. The 8800gt generally has a slight fps lead, a bit more when AA is enabled. ATI has the advantage when it comes to multi GPU setups right now, so if you want crossfire think about that too.
!