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Ati bombed again WTF !!!!! 3800 HD worse than 8800 GTS 320!!!!!!

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  • Homebuilt
  • ATI
  • Tom's Hardware
  • AMD
  • HD
  • Radeon
  • Systems
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November 15, 2007 11:15:59 PM

Look at the Tom's hardware Review of the new AMD Radeon HD...Wtf was ATI thinking?!?!?!?!?!

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/15/amd_radeon_hd_3800/page4.html

More about : ati bombed wtf 3800 worse 8800 gts 320

a b B Homebuilt system
a b À AMD
November 16, 2007 12:19:07 AM

In some cases yes, but not all. Take a look at page 14, world in conflict. Here the 3870 beats the GTS. (as long as AA/AF is off.) Even the 3850 comes close to the GTS, and for nearly $100 less. If you go to page 15 and look at UT3, you will notice that the 3870 beats the GTS, even with AA/AF turned on. Also once again, you can notice that the 3850 comes in just behind the GTS. Close enough that I wouldn't mind saving the $$$ and get the 3850.

Yes, they didn't overtake the high end. But they never claimed they would. The 3850 is a true midrange card, while the 3870 is basically a cheaper to produce 2900XT. The advantage the 3870 has over the 2900XT for the end user is that it doesn't use as much power. Sure the 8800GT is sexy and great, but not everyone is going to shell out $250+ for a video card. What does Nvidia have at the sub $200 price point that performs anywhere near the 3850?
November 16, 2007 12:37:39 AM

Yea dude I'm just saying I miss the days where they were top lol:( 
Plus granted they are really cheap but look at how thin the GT is...can you imagine the money you save by saving space and cooling in the case?? I mean OMG SEXYness at a hole new level. I'm actually selling my 8800 GTS OCs 2 get GTs lol

I need some room in my case.:) 
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November 16, 2007 12:57:48 AM

Great(er) Powers (Usage) Comes With Great Space (Responsibilities?) :) ... I'll have to carefully consider between ATi or nVidia for my next build...save some money on hardware, or on utility bills
November 16, 2007 1:01:31 AM

Tacky quote but I'll take it :) 
a b B Homebuilt system
a b À AMD
November 16, 2007 1:02:06 AM

I miss the days they were on top to, but I don't love AMD/ATI enough to buy a bad card if there is a better option out there. If you want cheaper high end, the 8800GT is your best bet. I can't afford the $280 price that they currently go for, but others might. If you can't spend more then $200 for a card, then the 3850 is pretty much the only option.

As for money or utility bills, I'm not sure I understand. The 3800 cards use the same amount of power as the 8800 series, more or less. They use less power in idle mode, but more when they are being used.
November 16, 2007 1:11:43 AM

lol which one do you think actually counts??? I dont care if my consume alot in idle I just don't want them 2 when being used
:) 
November 16, 2007 1:16:52 AM

You gotta remember the real world situation. AMD/ATI has gone through a dry spell. The mid-range is where the big money is made for these companies. While there are some advantages to owning the high end they do not always add to the bottom line significantly and adding to the bottom line is what AMD/ATI need right now. The same can be said of the Phenom chips about to come out. By adding to the bottom line they can attract more investors, their stock price goes up and the interest they have to pay if they need to borrow goes down. I do not think they will have bragging rights parts until 2-3 years out at the earliest. I Will my self go out and buy 2 3870's for my forst crossfire setup AND I don't have to purchase a new high wattage PSU. Therefore AMD/ATI has saved me money. Many are not looking at this as a total cost of ownership issue and they need to to get the full picture.
November 16, 2007 1:23:32 AM

L1qu1d said:
lol which one do you think actually counts??? I dont care if my consume alot in idle I just don't want them 2 when being used
:) 


For me idle is by far the most important, I barely shutdown my pc (I leave it working) =P.
November 16, 2007 1:25:20 AM

Oh I am...but look at the size and power consumption? I mean its gonna make me buy a new board so I can actually fit all my PCi cards (sound card and all that) Plus power consumption means a better PSU in the long run you end up paying the same or more...thats what I don't like...did you see the thickness? It looks thicker than the 8800 GTSs.....and the loading watts MY GOD!!

WHERE ARE THE GOOD QUALITY CARDS ?!!?!?!?

Remember the 1900 Series? Those were some amazing cards! I had the 1900 XTX a dream among dreams... Now they just flopped.

Its really a shame because their cards were always the cheaper ones and also had the performance to back it up! (1st place) Now they just went down a totally diff direction...its really screwed up
November 17, 2007 1:38:24 AM

Hahah, I know what you mean, I still have a 9800xt and it works fine with a generic PSU =).

I hope that next gen cards will be much better (it was nice to see benchmarks where the new cards kicked the asses of their little brothers), but for r6xx chips I don't see much future. I think that they are going to become like pentium D now and then they will release something cool like the core 2 duo (more mature architecture).
November 17, 2007 12:46:10 PM

did yours come with the Steam account? Half life 2 and all that stuff? Cuz when I had my 9800XT thats what it came with:p  hahaha
a b B Homebuilt system
a b À AMD
November 17, 2007 2:36:38 PM

Well with the lower power use clearly progress has been made.....

I await the price battles :) 
November 17, 2007 4:45:55 PM

AMD/ATI are just getting thier collective a$$es handed to them by Intel and Nvidia. Right now both companies have no answers to what thier counterparts are bringing out in the market. Last 2 years or so whatever ATI brought out Nvidia had already been there and was gearing to bring in the next knockout. Same with Intel vs AMD. ATI/AMD when they were separate companies used to be able to keep up, AMD being regarded as a gamer's cpu and ATI being regarded as the gamer's card. Now they slipped into a abyss they can't dig themselves out of cause they just can't keep up. ATI refuses to do away with this clunky technology it's been pushing out for years. The 3800 comes out as yet another oversized gfx card that puffs smoke instead of fire yet Nvidia comes out with the 8800GT, the thinnest gpu card i have ever seen, and is killing thier card which is half the size. Whatever ATI is gonna do to fire back is unknown but they are being slaughtered. Imagine if by some freak of nature Intel decided to aquire Nvidia like AMD did with ATI. I know it may not happen but just imagine what these two companies will pump out into the market as one single entity. If that where to ever happen AMD/ATI might as well pack it all up and start selling oranges on LA freeways.
November 17, 2007 4:48:53 PM

Well 2x 3870s don't cost as much as a 8800GTX and i'm pretty sure it can outperform one. But yea... since the R600 ATI and AMD have been screwing up jsut about everything
November 17, 2007 5:18:08 PM

those are 3850s but sure 3870 performance is just slightly better. Still beats the GTX for cheaper
November 17, 2007 5:26:17 PM

You guys need to get a grip on reality in regards to ATI vs NV. One of the two will always finish second to the other in peformance, but, both still make very good cards that you can do everything video related with.

This gen ATi is second in the highend with thier r600/RV670 but they are still very good feature rich/performing cards to have for the money. We all put way to much importance on benchmark numbers when evaluating these cards. For example the 8800GT gets a few more fps in Crysis Vs the 3870 and people say thinks like OMG the GT pawns the 3870 !!

These cards are close enough in the benchies to not show much of a differance when playing most games so the 5-10 fps more one card gets over another wont be noticible when your playing.

So either card, RV670 or 8800GT are good enough to play most games with respectable settings/performance
November 17, 2007 5:39:39 PM

ok thnx but 1 frame or 2 frame is still wining I don't understand why you need to tell us how to rate or how to talk about video cards...we like arguing the better company. ok thank You if you don't have anything constructive 2 say don't say it:) 

I mean I like the fact that I can have a card that beats another cards for example my 8800 GTS in SLI can beat the 2900 XTs in Crossfire...even though the 2900 XTs are almost 150$ more:)  (each)

BTW 5-10 frames can make a world of difference 21 vs 26 Frames at 26 26 frames to 31 stable frames which should be minimum:) 

Thank you I rest my case
November 17, 2007 5:40:30 PM

Spyhawk said:
You guys need to get a grip on reality in regards to ATI vs NV. One of the two will always finish second to the other in peformance, but, both still make very good cards that you can do everything video related with.

This gen ATi is second in the highend with thier r600/RV670 but they are still very good feature rich/performing cards to have for the money. We all put way to much importance on benchmark numbers when evaluating these cards. For example the 8800GT gets a few more fps in Crysis Vs the 3870 and people say thinks like OMG the GT pawns the 3870 !!

These cards are close enough in the benchies to not show much of a differance when playing most games so the 5-10 fps more one card gets over another wont be noticible when your playing.

So either card, RV670 or 8800GT are good enough to play most games with respectable settings/performance

dude the ATI has had 2 generations to beat nvidia
November 17, 2007 5:47:24 PM

Owning the high end will get you props in a forum but it wont translate into profit unless it provides god value for the dollar.

How quickly some people forget. ATI focusing on owning the top end is what got them in this jam in the first place. They have just done what Nvidia did 2 years ago, which in retrospect was a brilliant move.

2 years ago, ATI was the winner of the top end. Their X1800 XTX was 'the' card to have. But when it launched in November of 2005, it did not launch in volume but rather very limited quantities. The x1300 was a dog, and the x1600 was a paper launch. ATI was solely focused on the high end at this point. Lets face it, their midrange card at the time, the x700 was a joke (i know, i owned one)

At the same time, Nvidia had no answer. The 7900 series was not out yet and wouldn't be for a few more months. Although the 1800s were out very few people could get them. Nvidia was getting killed in these same forums... and what did they do? In a stroke of genius they released the 6800GS, which was nothing more than a die-shrunk pipe-reduced 6800GT that got the same if not (in some areas) more performance. It wasn't a giant, and it didn't beat the high end ATI offerings, but what it did do was offer the best price/performace ratio that could be had at the time. Not only that, Nvidia launched it in volume. Sure, people wanted a x1800 but good luck getting one as every place was sold out. And to do this right before christmas proved crippling to ATIs holiday sales in 2005. People got pissed at ATI and they remembered. It was during this time I switched to Nvidia and have stayed with them for my last 3 cards (6800GS, 7900GT, 8800GTS) ATI was the performance crown owner but the 6800GSs were flying off the shelves. Nvidia found that to own the midrange was to own the market.

In the next two years Nvidia kept this strategy going to much success. It didn't happen all at once. First they conquered the midrange, then they conquered the high end. They released the 7900GT, then the 7900GS. Now the 8800GS, and the new 8800GT.

AMD/ATI is aiming right where they need to be. They've taken their lumps with the 2000 series but not unlike Nvidia did 2 years ago with their 6000 series. Now the tables have turned. With the 8800GT in short supply the 3850 is the best bang for the buck card out there much like the 6800GS was 2 years ago. Regardless of whether it can beat an 8800 GTX/GTS/GT is not as important as whether or not they end up flying off the shelves due to its competitor not being available in volume. You can backorder a 8800GT or you can buy a 3850 right now. 2 years ago, people went with right now... i don't suppose that will change this time around.
November 17, 2007 5:51:11 PM

itotallybelieveyou said:
dude the ATI has had 2 generations to beat nvidia


Sure they did, but NV isnt waiting for ATI to catch up are they ?

Just because ATI is a bit behind on performance doesnt make it a bad card. Look, the 7900s were behind the 1900s but they were still great cards to play with
November 17, 2007 5:51:32 PM

Spyhawk
It is true that one will always finish second, but it is how far in second they are in. Nvidia is able to beat there technology time and time again even though they release it months in advance. Saying that the GT only gets 10 more fps doesn't prove your point at all. The GT with 30 fps on very high will be approx. 40% faster than a 3870 with 20 fps.
November 17, 2007 5:57:25 PM

L1qu1d said:
ok thnx but 1 frame or 2 frame is still wining I don't understand why you need to tell us how to rate or how to talk about video cards...we like arguing the better company. ok thank You if you don't have anything constructive 2 say don't say it:) 

I mean I like the fact that I can have a card that beats another cards for example my 8800 GTS in SLI can beat the 2900 XTs in Crossfire...even though the 2900 XTs are almost 150$ more:)  (each)

BTW 5-10 frames can make a world of difference 21 vs 26 Frames at 26 26 frames to 31 stable frames which should be minimum:) 

Thank you I rest my case


haha took the words right out of my mouth
November 17, 2007 6:08:34 PM

itotallybelieveyou said:
those are 3850s but sure 3870 performance is just slightly better. Still beats the GTX for cheaper


yeah , so here are 2 HD3870 vs 1 8800GTX:

http://www.hothardware.com/articles/ATI_Radeon_HD_3870_...
HL2 :EP2

2 HD3870 > 1 8800GTX

http://www.hothardware.com/articles/ATI_Radeon_HD_3870_...
COMPANY OF HEROES

1 8800GTX > 2 HD3870

http://www.hothardware.com/articles/ATI_Radeon_HD_3870_...
ET:QUAKEWARS

1 8800GTX demolishes 2 HD3870

http://www.hothardware.com/articles/ATI_Radeon_HD_3870_...
CRYSIS

1 8800GTX > 2 HD3870





November 17, 2007 6:20:56 PM

Im not surprised Nv are able to stay ahead in performance this gen with thier 8800 arch. They pulled a big one on ATI and everyone else in the graphics world, even on themselves. I remember reading from an NV insider who said that they were surprised of how well thier new arch was performing. So this tells me that its not about how bad a job ATI did, but how incredibly well NV did thiers. That shader clock domain...wow imagin having the ability to over clock the 320 shaders on an ATI product without touching the core. NV struck gold with that in thier arch.

Well having said all that, I still think that even though ATI cant compete at the high end, they can still compete where most of the cash is and put forth respectable hardware that is enough for most at a 200$ price point and I think they did just that with thier 3850/3870 release. It runs quiet, consumes less power has all the features of the 2900xt and best of all costs a hell of a lot less and are widely available.
November 17, 2007 6:36:29 PM

Maziar,

Your right, but take off the AA (other than crysis) and see what happens. Those 3870s are awesome, and will play any game.

And that's the point ... can the card(s) play the game?

I don't play with AA, and 2x3870s is more cost effective than the GTX, and will outperform it - again, without AA.

So, I'm very very happy with my 2 newly purchased 3870s, and I will still be able to open a can of whoop@$$.

November 17, 2007 6:48:26 PM

By the way, it's called Acturarial Science,

Sell 400,000 cards at $240ea = $96 million,
Sell 150,000 cards at $500ea = $75 million.

Fact, more people will buy a $250 mainstream card, than a high end card.

Those who want high end, can just purchase 2, and scale accordingly with crossfire-x. Chances are, if you're going high end, then you would have already bought a crossfire board.

I know, that ATI has made the best decision at this point in time, including the AVAILABILITY of the cards.

Use the mainstream to raise the market share, and market share feeds the green to fund the high end.

ATI is in a good position.
November 17, 2007 6:53:46 PM

As well,

The majority of players play at 1024x768 or 1280x1024, just look at Valve's statistics.

Again, feed the mainstream.

November 17, 2007 7:19:46 PM

LOl just cuz their cards are cheap doesn't mean they sell...most people don't research like us...they just buy what ever is the most expensive because they think since its soo costly it must be top of the line:)  in the logical world your proposition makes sense...but not int he real world of market...ATI had a reputation of being number 1 at a low cost...now their number 3 with low price Video cards. 2 me that pisses me off because I both an ATI fan and an Amd fan. :( 

And 2 argue the Antiailiasing...I like it...I mean I try to put that in every game I mean why have those jags? NO 1 LIKES EM!!! I'll bet if everyone could they would take em away! I'd rather pay an extra couple of bucks to have those disappear:) 

The only advantage the ATIs have now are the fact that they have 4.1 shader, and their price...which is roughly 20$ cheaper than the GT here in Canada. I'm sorry but DX 10 is barely being used now...why am I so hyped to change to 10.1? I hope ATI gets their act straight they have 55 nm cards that consume more power than 65 on load...Thats really screwed up I mean wow.
I hope most of you agree with me on this because it is realistic...Lets hope ATI gets back in the game Cheap cards, Top-notch performance which made them so great!
November 17, 2007 7:28:15 PM

About those crossfire benchmarks, they are nice, it is known that this gen of ati cards doesn't perform very good with AA, but I think that when you buy 2 cards you're expecting them to run at high res and with some AA. So that's bad. About the last benchs, it is obvious that there are some drivers issues. Hopefully they will be fixed with the new drivers.
November 17, 2007 7:36:40 PM

Interesting stuff here. Apparently at 860Mhz core, theres some amazing performance to be gained even with AA/AF enabled.

Sure the GT can be Oced too, but it would seem that gains in performance do not scale as well as the 3850/3870.

http://www.overclock.net/ati/259986-3870-bios-locked-86...
November 17, 2007 7:46:33 PM

The high clock speeds of the ATI HD 38xx series reminds me of the netburst from Intel...Any chance it'll go past 1000mhz?
November 17, 2007 7:54:49 PM

Hey L1qu1d, well said,

"most people don't research like us", that's why ATI increased the number scheme, instead of 2950, they called it the NEW HD38XX.

the 3870's also perform well in DX9. Again, mainstream.

I believe that ATI played thier cards well ... pun intented.

LOL

I guess in summary, I'll have to let everybody know how well they perform. I look forward to doing MY OWN testing. LOL

November 17, 2007 8:09:43 PM

LOL haha yes there are other nerds out there like me SCORE 1 FOR TEAM DISCOVERY LMAO! jks:p 

yeah their running on people's stupidy like the ATI 9800 SE (ofc there is softmodding but...some don't work) Or the ATI 9550 which was the sh*t!!!...sarcasm*....anyways I'd name some Nvidias but I wasn't a fan of nvidia back then. oh now I know 1 7900 GS lol worse than the 7800 GTX...isn't it the bigger the better? I guess not for Video cards:) 
Any who... I overclocked both my 8800 GTS ( I called them OC4 now:D  lol) to:

Core: 613 - Stock 500...:|
Shader: 1400 - Stock 1200
Memory: 900 (1800) - Stock 800

November 17, 2007 8:21:49 PM

Liquid i have to say some of ur post are stupid........ before u start bitching about ati cards look at the facts...... go to newegg and tell me the $ of the 3870..... thx also if u look on most of the games their is a 3 -5 fps diff. .also go look at the 8800 gt $ thanks agian.... now please stfu about ati being bad. Also ur dumbass should save the money bc ur eye is not going to see s2 fps diff. im sorry


People need to stop bitching bc when ati has there dual card come out im going to be it will destroy the ultra if the drivers are done well
November 17, 2007 8:38:12 PM

How exactly did ati "bomb" with the 3800HD, they have a product with a good price/performance ratio, and a large supply. Just because it's not the best performer, means nothing. Mid and low-end cards are what bring in the most cash, I don't see anything wrong with the product whatsoever.

From what I've seen, both the 8800gt and the 38xx series are excellent products, only difference is, ati has a large supply, yet I don't see the 8800gt in stock anywhere...it doesn't matter how good a product is if it's not on the shelves, for the consumer or the company. I'm more of an Nvidia fan myself, but face it, if anyone bombed it was Nvidia with the 8800 and it's small supply, the 3800 looks to be a good product.
November 17, 2007 9:06:33 PM

ATi for me means better quality picture ,
the 38xx has the better price / performance ratio
it will goes better with new drivers
about 3 or 4 fps lower than 8800gt huh who cares no one will notes
yet it comes with 10.1 dx and updates UVD
its not the speedest card . but ATi give the costumer a greet card for whom cant pay $$$ unless you are about to sell you're clothes too , and where is 8800gt by the way!!!
November 17, 2007 9:10:24 PM

Ok lets start from the beginning...
I said they bombed because its their 2nd releasal and still no Heavy hitter. I told you THE PRICE IS IN CANADA so grow some sense:)  thnx.
I'm bitching because I want them 2 have good cards I don't get wtf your prob is did you strike your tampon in the wrong hole or wat?

I just said 2nd Next Gen release and STIL NO HEAVY WEIGHT my god man do you read my posts or do you just choose random words from my post and put them 2gether?

put these 2 words 2gether ATI BOMBED they are trying to dominate the mainstream market wat good is that 2 heavy gamers that want to have an ATI card? EXACTLY

Now then your saying when the Dual card comes out...blah blah blah...when it comes out there will be an nvidia out there that will top it...wait there already is....the 8800 GTX Ultra:)  I'm assuming the price will drop...wait no it wont you know why? CUZ ATI ISN'T PRODUCING HIGH END CARDS!!!!!

no competition= no Price drop

Now you F@ckin know why I'm bitchin? They screwed us with the 2900 XT series and now they're making up for it 6 or so months later. THNX

I said it bomb because its frames can't match a card THAT HAS BEEN OUT FOR A YEAR!!!!! ONE YEAR!!!!

2 me thats bombing...

You know what not bombing means? HAVING high end cards for a cheap Price...like the x1900 Series and the x1800 Series ALL THE PREVIOUS SERIES.

Your saying my posts are stupid? Re read yours and then talk I don't think you even know what your talking about.

You can read in the first couple of lines that I said in Canada AHAHA

Anyways back to my other post I forgot to post the rest...I overclocked my card and now Nvidia detects it like a 8800 GTX Ultra hahaha that made me feel good for a while lol

:D 
November 17, 2007 9:41:07 PM

L1qu1d said:
Ok lets start from the beginning...
I said they bombed because its their 2nd releasal and still no Heavy hitter. I told you THE PRICE IS IN CANADA so grow some sense:)  thnx.
I'm bitching because I want them 2 have good cards I don't get wtf your prob is did you strike your tampon in the wrong hole or wat?

I just said 2nd Next Gen release and STIL NO HEAVY WEIGHT my god man do you read my posts or do you just choose random words from my post and put them 2gether?

put these 2 words 2gether ATI BOMBED they are trying to dominate the mainstream market wat good is that 2 heavy gamers that want to have an ATI card? EXACTLY

Now then your saying when the Dual card comes out...blah blah blah...when it comes out there will be an nvidia out there that will top it...wait there already is....the 8800 GTX Ultra:)  I'm assuming the price will drop...wait no it wont you know why? CUZ ATI ISN'T PRODUCING HIGH END CARDS!!!!!

no competition= no Price drop

Now you F@ckin know why I'm bitchin? They screwed us with the 2900 XT series and now they're making up for it 6 or so months later. THNX

I said it bomb because its frames can't match a card THAT HAS BEEN OUT FOR A YEAR!!!!! ONE YEAR!!!!

2 me thats bombing...

You know what not bombing means? HAVING high end cards for a cheap Price...like the x1900 Series and the x1800 Series ALL THE PREVIOUS SERIES.

Your saying my posts are stupid
? Re read yours and then talk I don't think you even know what your talking about.

You can read in the first couple of lines that I said in Canada AHAHA

Anyways back to my other post I forgot to post the rest...I overclocked my card and now Nvidia detects it like a 8800 GTX Ultra hahaha that made me feel good for a while lol

:D 



You're* How can you mistake a possessive as a contraction so many times in a row?

Here's the thing of it. AMD is in a bad position right now, they need to concentrate on whatever makes them the most money, not on what has the highest fps to increase some gamer's e-penis. So what you're suggesting is, concentrating on what will make them money and help keep the company alive is "bombing", as opposed to releasing a high end product and if anything losing money on r&d...right. I think this product is just what AMD needed.

A company exists to make money, not to be like FPS LOLZ! If they start making stupid business decisions, they won't be around to make a high end card, which means leads back to the whole lack of competition thing you mentioned, only across the whole board and far worse.
November 17, 2007 9:51:26 PM

L1qu1d,

Gotta love the canadian/american exchange on the desktop ... LOL

Nice OC on the GTSs.

By the way, I like the look of the HD3870's also ... LOL.

"They may not perform as well, but at least they'll look good doing it!" LOL

Seriously, when did logic ever dominate??? Just look at this thread.

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/14298/BBC_The_Centu...

Happy watching...

November 17, 2007 9:58:47 PM

LOL dude don't you get it do you know how many fans are ready to bounce back to ATi when High end products come out there? And what I'm aruging ur still not understand I'm saying it once more but thats it so listen ...

ATI USE 2 BE CHEAP CARDS GOOD PERFORMANCE. thats what I want them to make a card that competes with the GTX or not better for cheaper:)  Because ATIs were always cheaper than nvidias.

9800 XT cheaper than the counter part.

X1800 XT cheaper the 7800 GTX ETC.

Out of business?? LOL ATI WAS OUT OF BUSINESS ALREADY... and this is their soltuion? So you're saying we should forget about ATI when it comes 2 performance?

Oh and btw you're going to criticize my grammer to win a conversion? What does that have 2 do with wat I said? Nothing

Thank you very much

What ATI needs 2 do is keep up with the market...they released a mainstream

here are prices in Canada how it stands

http://canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=...

http://canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=...

30$ difference for a card that is supposed to be a new series that performs worse than the GT

GT wins by being slimmer and consuming less power and performing better. PLUS 512 RAM

ATI wins by having Directx 10.1 (god knows when we'll use it) the thickness of a obese Video Card. I would say more but I have nothing 2 say unless someone wants to add....oh yeah GDDR4...no comment.

Anywho I'm not saying ATI is bad I'm just saying that they are at a real break point in their life...AMD is losing to Intel and ATI is losing to Nvidia...we need the balance so we can count on price drops.

Anyways I'm not arguin about this anymore its getting kinda emotional...I was just trying to point out some things out, Apparently you get yelled at by Spell Check ppl that would critize someone's writing in a forum where msn lingo.

But i guess a LOW BLOW is when some users need to win a battle I'll let you beleive what you want.

Everyone is allowed to have their own opinions GoD Bless America/Canada

Anyways hopefully they release a 3900XT which will be the record breaker:) 
November 17, 2007 10:02:12 PM

To whomever started this post: the hd3800 is only called a 3800 cause of a naming standard.... it is effectively the x2850xt and the x2850pro, (i am not calling it the 2950 cause 9 is not an original ati number it was made when the x1800 was not ''all that''.) So this card is not here to blow us away, it is here to make money for amd who are essentially trapped in the horse latitudes right now. So it did not ''bomb'', it just is not really the new thing, it is the old thing but smaller and more efficient.
November 17, 2007 10:07:44 PM

So its like how the Game Boy pocket is to the Game boy? LOL

In that cased I'd wait for the Game Boy Advanced:) 

Anyways I came to the conclusion that this post is kinda hostile So yeah if any1 else wants to bitch at me my email is theo.dm@gmail.com:) 

Theres no point repeating the same thing over and over again:) 

Anywho
November 17, 2007 10:14:23 PM

"Everyone is allowed to have their own opinions GoD Bless America/Canada"

I strongly agree.

But we do need competition for the market to be healthy.

No competition = monopoly = bad.

Hence, one of the reasons why I'm supporting ATI during this time.

C'mon my brothers, follow my lead. ..... CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

November 17, 2007 10:16:18 PM

L1qu1d said:
LOL dude don't you get it do you know how many fans are ready to bounce back to ATi when High end products come out there? And what I'm aruging ur still not understand I'm saying it once more but thats it so listen ...

ATI USE 2 BE CHEAP CARDS GOOD PERFORMANCE. thats what I want them to make a card that competes with the GTX or not better for cheaper:)  Because ATIs were always cheaper than nvidias.

9800 XT cheaper than the counter part.

X1800 XT cheaper the 7800 GTX ETC.

Out of business?? LOL ATI WAS OUT OF BUSINESS ALREADY... and this is their soltuion? So you're saying we should forget about ATI when it comes 2 performance?

Oh and btw you're going to criticize my grammer to win a conversion? What does that have 2 do with wat I said? Nothing

Thank you very much

What ATI needs 2 do is keep up with the market...they released a mainstream

here are prices in Canada how it stands

http://canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=...

http://canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=...

30$ difference for a card that is supposed to be a new series that performs worse than the GT

GT wins by being slimmer and consuming less power and performing better. PLUS 512 RAM

ATI wins by having Directx 10.1 (god knows when we'll use it) the thickness of a obese Video Card. I would say more but I have nothing 2 say unless someone wants to add....oh yeah GDDR4...no comment.

Anywho I'm not saying ATI is bad I'm just saying that they are at a real break point in their life...AMD is losing to Intel and ATI is losing to Nvidia...we need the balance so we can count on price drops.

Anyways I'm not arguin about this anymore its getting kinda emotional...I was just trying to point out some things out, Apparently you get yelled at by Spell Check ppl that would critize someone's writing in a forum where msn lingo.

But i guess a LOW BLOW is when some users need to win a battle I'll let you beleive what you want.

Everyone is allowed to have their own opinions GoD Bless America/Canada

Anyways hopefully they release a 3900XT which will be the record breaker:) 


No, you still don't seem to get it. AMD/ATI does not exist to please you, they do not exist to give you the highest fps, they exist to make money. As I already said, they make the most of their money off the mid-range and lower range cards, so that is what they need to focus on right now. There are still plenty of ati users out there, you forget that just because you want the top card with the most fps, 95% of the world just wants something affordable, and don't care if they get 30fps as opposed to 300. Yes their top end cards are getting destroyed by the top Nvidia cards, nobody will disagree with that, but you can't say the card "bombed" because it looks to me like it's going to be a huge success, but we'll see what happens.

Maybe you don't realize it, but the market of people that buy the top end card is probably less than 1%, so don't think all the ati fans flocked to nvidia, I'm sure ati still has quite a large user base, of all my gamer friends, I'm the only one with an Nvidia card at the moment, the rest just built new comps with ati cards, because they had good price/performance.

"Out of business?? LOL ATI WAS OUT OF BUSINESS ALREADY... and this is their soltuion? So you're saying we should forget about ATI when it comes 2 performance?"

You're acting like "performance" is synonymous with "top performance." You should forget about ati if you want the best of the best yes, that doesn't mean anyone is going to completely rule them out just because they don't have the best card. Like I said, average joe has the low end cards, and most gamers have mid-range cards, gamers that buy the top end card are a small minority. I myself have always bought mid-range or upper mid-range cards, same with all of the gamers I know personally.

Put yourself in ati's shoes, you have limited funds and resources, are you going to put out something that pleases 95% of the market, or 5% of the market?
November 17, 2007 10:17:03 PM

LOL exactly:)  I miss the days where 9800XT was SOO friggin awesome:D 

Stupid HDR ruined the 9800XT lol :p 
Anyways I'm going to some CS:Source:) 

I hope ATI regains some territory both Amd for CPUS and ATI for cards...AMD needs 2 do something about their freakin power consumption holy hell:|

lol
November 17, 2007 10:22:25 PM

Wat stats maker are you do u personally conduct these Statistics?? I didn't think so. Please don't assume the market. Thats why businesses go bankrupt because they assume.

Do the research don't just pull numbers out of your ass 95% of the world...yeah last time I check this kid from Iraq definately is looking for a moderately priced Video Card LMAO!!!!!

Anyways you go on and say your amazing ideas that will save ati. You should suggest it 2 ATi:)  make sum bucks on the way.

Your still telling me price this price that. I said that they had cheap video cards that were as good as nvidia and your telling me they don't want to make them expensive your not even arguing something I said....


Again I SAID THEY NEED CHEAP VIDEO CARDS THAT HAVE HIGH PERFORMANCE:) 

Oh and yes performance varies form person to person...2 me performance doesn't vary...2 me its dependant to other video cards thats how I compare it:) 

bye bye
November 17, 2007 10:22:48 PM

Oh yeah, and for those of you who think I'm a fan boy ...
My last card, the x700 played what I wanted to play, and it did it well for me, but was clearly getting weak at the end.

Now, with all the new games out, time for a new build and new cards.

When they won't do what I want to, I'll just get another card. LOL

My video cards, listed .... for fun!

Vesa Local Bus - Trident SVGA VLB card
Permedia 2 - 4 MB - Creative Graphics Blaster Exxtreme
3dfx Voodoo - 6 MB - Canopus Pure3D
Rendition Verite 1000 - 4 MB - Canopus Total 3D
3dfx Voodoo - 4 MB - Diamond Monster 3D
SiS 6326 - 8 MB - Aopen PG80
Rage 128 GL - 16 MB - ATI Rage Xpert 128

Intel 740 - 8 MB - Diamond Stealth II G460
NV6 - Riva TNT2 - 32 MB - ASUS Geforce TNT2 M64
NV6 - Riva TNT2 - 32 MB - XFX Nvidia TNT 2 M64
NV15 - GeForce2 MX - 32 MB - Nvidia Geforce2 MX 200
NV15 - GeForce2 GTS - 64 MB - Dell 64MB Nvidia Geforce2 GTS
NV15 - GeForce2 GTS - 32 MB - Asus V7700

NV17 - 64 MB - Geforce 4 MX400
RV100 - 64 MB - ATI Radeon 7000
R100 - 32 MB - ATI Radeon AIW 7200 PCI
RV250 - 64 MB - ATI Radeon 9000
R200 - 64 MB - ATI Radeon AIW 8500 DV
RV350 - 128 MB - ATI Radeon AIW 9600 Pro
R350 - 128 MB - ATI Radeon AIW 9800 Pro
RV410 - 256 MB - ATI X700 Pro VIVO

Intel GMA900 - Toshiba Satelite M60-CD4 17"

RV670 - 512 MB - ATI HD 3870

November 17, 2007 10:27:03 PM

thats alot of cards lol I thought I went through alot:

Nvidia Geforce2 MX 200
ATI 9800 XT
ATI X600 XT
ATI X800 XL both AGP and PCI
ATI X1900 AIW
ATI X1900 XT
Nvidia 8800 GTS 320 x's 2
Next card...

THE ATI NVDIA 99999999 with 1 TB of RAm and able 2 do 1 million fps:)  which will only cost 50$ :) 

LOL that would be awesome:|
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