very strange drive issue, experts needed

[bex372]

Hello everyone,

Well I consider myself fairly tech savvy and I have recently encountered a problem that has really stumped me and all of my fellow tech buddies. Let me know what you make of the situation:

First off, this problem occurred only after overclocking my Q6600 from 2.4ghz to 3.0, and I know I could probably remedy this problem by underclocking, but I'm trying to avoid that. The overclock has caused absolutely no noticeable problems except for the following. When my computer has been shut down for several minutes and I boot it and the BIOs does not recognize my second SATA drive (a 320gb WD). The drive is not found by Windows at all either. A simple reboot remedies this problem. Other times when the computer has been off, I will power it on and the BIOs will recognize the 2nd drive. Unfortunately, it will NOT be recognized by Windows (vista 64). When the disk is recognized by the BIOs but not Vista the drive shows up in Disk Management strangely enough.

Whether or not the drive shows up in the BIOs seems random, but like I said, a reboot always remedies the problem. Sometimes I will reboot a second time and the drive will disappear again. I've read that formatting the drive may help but there is a load of information on it and I would like to avoid that if there are other options. The most important part of this problem is that I have isolated what causes the drive to disappear occasionally.

I currently have 6GB of DDR2 memory in my rig (4 of patriot, 2 of g-skill). They are both rated at 1066 and supposed to run at 2.1v. When I have them set to 1066mhz in the BIOs, I have this hard drive problem. Setting the memory back to 800 completely gets rid of the issue! I know the performance increase from 800 to 1066 is small, but I would like to get what I paid for. I'm thinking that it may have something to do with my CPU voltage but currently I have it on auto and my motherboard only allows me to increase it by 5,10,15% as opposed to inputting a manual value. Does anyone have any ideas? I'm really stumped.

 

[Paperdoc]

Hmm! If you're sure the RAM performance is the problem, start there. You talk about RAM speed, then leap back to voltage on the CPU.

First of all, let me check whether I understand something correctly. I'm more used to Athlon 64 systems where the CPU includes the memory manager, so a change in CPU speed (e.g., an overclock) will change the RAM access speeds, too. But I believe that is not so for your Intel CPU, so the RAM speed should be exactly what you set it to. Right?

Now, on my system the voltage supply for RAM can be adjusted in BIOS completely separately from the CPU voltage. So leave the CPU voltage alone and look for RAM voltage. Usually you need to set it to the value spec'd by the manufacturer. In fact, many people have had trouble because thier BIOS's get the RAM voltage wrong by default and set it too low. So check that for starters. If that's already OK, then next step would be to increase the RAM voltage a little, say by 0.1 or 0.2 volts. Make the smallest increase you can and test with the RAM speed set back up to 1066. Try another small increase if necessary.

By the way, just in case your post has a mistype and you meant to say in the last paragraph that your RAM voltage (not CPU) is set to "Auto", you need to do two things. One would be to take it off Auto and manually set it to the 2.1 v spec as a starting point. As I said, some BIOS's Auto settings make a mistake and set the RAM voltage low. Sometimes there's an actual voltage reading avaibale to see in the BIOS screens.

The other thing is to recognize that +5% boost on a 2.1 v supply means you would be increasing by 0.1 v, which is about the size of increase you would want to try, anyway. So if your Auto setting really is RAM voltage, and you don't have any way to manually set a specific value, then you can try the "+5%" setting, or maybe "+10%".

 

[Onus]

In your BIOS, is there an option to allow a small delay for your hard drives to spin up? Put a couple seconds of delay in there and see what happens.

 

[Onus]

Slightly off topic, but...






Paperdoc wrote :
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In fact, many people have had trouble because thier BIOS's get the RAM voltage wrong by default and set it too low.
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Actually, this is backwards. The BIOS will set the RAM voltage to the JEDEC default of 1.8V. Many RAM manufacturers get it wrong, requiring more voltage (2.1V+) for their RAM to work properly. This is why I won't choose any RAM that won't work (at stated timings) at 1.8V; I've found Mushkin has been a reliable choice.

In this case, the machine has become just a little too quick; the hard drive just isn't ready yet, but it is by the time of the reboot. That is why I suggested that a second or two delay might be sufficient.

 

[sorce7200]

oops

 

[techgeek]

In your BIOS do you have your PCI-E bus locked at 100 and your PCI bus locked at 33? Overclocking of these buses can cause the exact behavior your discussing. It can also lead to data corruption.

 

[Avenger762]

I believe that the problem may reside with your power supply. Overclocked components require more juice. Check the output voltages on your power supply at startup and under load.

 

[Jim_L9]

You would be better off setting your RAM for 1:1 timing and setting the timings tighter. At 333 MHZ your RAM would be at 667 MHz and your FSB will be 1333 MHz. Trying to run your RAM at 1066 won't really help your performance.

 

[bex372]

I have tried the memory at 2.0v and 2.1v at 1066 which did not fix the problem. I have locked my PCI-E bus speed at 100 so that's not the problem. I don't think power should be a problem.. I have a 530W PSU. I will look into whether or not I can delay my HDs from spinning up, but that doesn't explain two things:

1) Why would the memory speed influence this at all?

2) Why just the one drive? If anything my older drive wouldn't spin because it's slower to my knowledge.

 

[Onus]

The memory speed may be just enough of a difference that your hard drive isn't ready by the time your system first tries to access it [to identify it].

 

[bex372]

And the only way to remedy this would be continuing to run the memory at 800mhz or to find a delay option for my disks in the BIOs?

 

[thunderbolt88]

My suggestion is to check in the BIOS for the SATA ports to ensure that they are set to ON instead of AUTO. I think the OC aspect may not be the issue directly, but i could be wrong. If the system is stable and a checkdisk passes when the questionable drive is running, then I feel its safe to say that you are not risking corruption. Perhaps a big file copy is worth testing.

 

[sorce7200]

Sorry about the previous post 'oops'....doorbell.....ya know?
Anyway, I also have a drive (IDE) that used to respond exactly
the same way...sometimes requiring 2 to 3 reboots to get the
bios to recognize it...and sometimes randomly windows not
regognizing it either. I tweaked just about every known setting
in the bios and windows and everthing else including a few
things that I knew could NOT be even remotely conncected....
no luck. The drive was an IDE WD 60 gig.
I finally removed the drive from my system and tossed it onto the
future 'work to do list' pile....
A year or so later, I finally got around to checking it out again,
and discovered the IDE connector on the drive was just a tad
wobbly, mind you, not enough to be really loose, just a bit
unstable. I re-plugged it into my system, held the IDE cable
firmly tight into the connector while booting, and 'voila' ...
no more probs....even after dozens of re-boots...from warm to
cold starts...no probs. BUT, when I allowed the cable to dangle
loose on its own with no support, there was the same old
problem again....
I junked the drive into the old parts bin, but I am sure it can
be repaired with a little judicious re-manufaturing at the connectivity
point (light soldering.).
Not that I am reccomending that you start re-building a drive, just
a case from my own exp.
Perhaps a trip to a repair center for the malfunctioning part?
That is, IF it turns out to be the drive.
I know, I know...not a sata, but.....
good luck

 

[bex372]

Update: The drive disappeared when I came home from work today with my memory at 800ghz and 2.1v (recommended). When I turned the voltage and memory speed to auto, CPU-Z tells me bus speed of 333mhz, rated FSB 1332, 499.5mhz for memory frequency at a 2:3 FSBRAM. Is it true that auto settings are ideal for this setup? Could manually setting the speed/voltage be the cause of the problem?

There is no option in my BIOS to allow the drive to spin up. I don't know what to do.

 

[bex372]

Another Update:

My motherboard came with software that allows me to change CPU voltage, Memory voltage, chip voltage, and FSB voltage manually if that would be any help. They are at 1.280, 1.872, 1.088, and 1.200 respectively.