"let them eat cake"

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Bob Miller <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "let them eat cake"
>
> Basically that is the attitude of Gary Shapiro head of the CEA to
> consumers in the US.
>
> http://www.tvtechnology.com/dailynews/one.php?id=2952
>
> Shapiro is one of the chief architects of the 8-VSB fiasco. His attitude
> is similar to many at the FCC and Congress that OTA is "essentially
> dead".
>
> As most of the world enjoys a rebirth of OTA it will be increasingly
> hard to justify this BS.
>
> As Shapiro spoke Murdock's SKY satellite service is getting creamed by
> OTA in Europe. The US is the only country where this public be damned
> attitude is allowed to flourish for the benefit of competitors to OTA,
> cable and satellite.
>
> Congress and the FCC would have you believe that their interest is in
> fostering competition for cable and satellite. I guess that is why they
> chose a modulation, 8-VSB, that has delayed the digital transition in
> the US for many years, doesn't work mobile and barely works fixed. That
> is why they refuse to consider receiver standards and mandate junk 8-VSB
> receivers into every TV set. And soon they would buy or subsidize
> millions of STB converter boxes with a contract to the lowest bidder
> sans any kind of standard.
>
> Bob Miller


Then why do my Sony HD-200 and LG 3200a stb's work so well? Why Bob?
Chip

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Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Michael J. Sherman" <msherman@dsbox.com> wrote in message
news:neafl2-gb9.ln1@developers.dsbox.com...
> Bob Miller wrote:
>
>> Shapiro is one of the chief architects of the 8-VSB fiasco.
>
> The "fiasco"? Perhaps you have a different definition of that word than I
> do. Does your definition fit something like "working delivery system of
> free OTA HDTV"?
>
> I love my OTA HDTV! It's great! You may want to look up the term
> "fiasco" in the dictionary, because usually it used to describe things in
> the negative.
>
> For example: Bob's business plan using COFDM for mobile advertising
> delivery is quite a fiasco!
>
> ;-)

My OTA is great too.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <rz5he.133$X92.65@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Bob Miller <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote:

> "let them eat cake"
>
> Basically that is the attitude of Gary Shapiro head of the CEA to
> consumers in the US.
>
> http://www.tvtechnology.com/dailynews/one.php?id=2952
>
> Shapiro is one of the chief architects of the 8-VSB fiasco. His attitude
> is similar to many at the FCC and Congress that OTA is "essentially dead".

Of course he supports what business (his members) tells him to support.
Why is 8VSB a fiasco? Because you say so? We have had a working system
here for years.

Does COFDM/Europe have as long a record? If we waited for a "perfect"
standard, we would never have HD.

> As most of the world enjoys a rebirth of OTA it will be increasingly
> hard to justify this BS.

A "rebirth"?

> As Shapiro spoke Murdock's SKY satellite service is getting creamed by
> OTA in Europe. The US is the only country where this public be damned
> attitude is allowed to flourish for the benefit of competitors to OTA,
> cable and satellite.

Are you referring to the multicasting in Europe? Is this why you hate
8VSB? Your bosses want multicasting instead of HD? Just how much OTA HD
is there in Europe? Not anywhere near as much as in the US. In fact,
little of Europe has access to OTA HD.

> Congress and the FCC would have you believe that their interest is in
> fostering competition for cable and satellite. I guess that is why they
> chose a modulation, 8-VSB, that has delayed the digital transition in
> the US for many years, doesn't work mobile and barely works fixed.

Talk about a "dead" topic - who needs mobile TV? Why do you continue to
bring up mobile, a useless idea if ever there was one. Mobile TV really
is dead - people who want "TV" in their cars have VOD (Video on
Demand)!! It is the DVD player. Mobile TV will never be more than a
niche market. It is not worth changing a standard to increase the use
in cars.

>That is why they refuse to consider receiver standards and mandate
>junk 8-VSB
> receivers into every TV set. And soon they would buy or subsidize
> millions of STB converter boxes with a contract to the lowest bidder
> sans any kind of standard.
>
> Bob Miller

I have to say you must have little or no experience with 8VSB, other
than a few locations with regular (analog) TV problems. I have had
better reception EVERYWHERE I have used 8VSB. It may not be perfect, but
I have gotten beautiful HD in locations that get nearly unwatchable
analog TV. "Junk" 8VSB is better than "vapor" COFDM. 8VSB works with
rabbit ears better than analog. Quit flogging a "dead" horse.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Craig Bennett wrote:
> Personally, I think ATSC is excellent, I live in Canada and enjoy free, reliable OTA TV from 25miles away (Toronto,ON) and 60miles away(Buffalo,NY)
> every day. It's my only source of TV now. It took the effort of mounting a good quality antenna outdoors to ensure reliability, but the results are
> excellent, especially considering the low power the stations most stations are broadcating at.
>
> As for OTA in Europe - I dont know the technical ins and outs, but I do have friends and relatives who live in england who inform me, that yes there is
> OTA digital TV, but the path the broadcasters have chosen is to heavily compress a half dozen or so SD channels onto one channel, resulting in very
> noticable mpeg artifacts on all but the smallest TV sets. - No High Def broadcasts over there right now as far as I know.

Talk of low power what do you mean? Average power in the UK is ONE kW. I
have no argument against HD and Europe will go HD at their own pace. My
argument is with having the best modulation for HD or SD.
>
> Although Im sure CODFM could be used to carry HD services, it seems they're choosing not to do so right now, so I for one am not envious of the way the
> europeans are"Enjoying the rebirth" of OTA TV. No doubt many residents/hdtv enthusiasts of europe share my feelings. - for the rest of world, I dont
> know, but I thought atsc had been adopted by many countries ?

8-VSB has been adopted by only four countries. S. Korea where
broadcasters refused for seven years to go on the air with 8-VSB
demanding that the government allow COFDM. Canada because Canada feels
they have to follow the US standard because of border issues and ditto
for Mexico. No other country chose 8-VSB accept Taiwan but after
broadcasters there all but rioted in their Congress the government
switched to COFDM. Australia was in the 8-VSB camp until broadcasters
their forced a test in which COFDM won hands down unlike the US test
which was a complete fraud.

8-VSB is a political construct which has no basis in real engineering.
It was created in a back room by politicians.

Bob Miller
>
> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcasting/hdtv/guide/
>
> Craig B
>
>
> "Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:rz5he.133$X92.65@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>"let them eat cake"
>>
>>Basically that is the attitude of Gary Shapiro head of the CEA to consumers in the US.
>>
>>http://www.tvtechnology.com/dailynews/one.php?id=2952
>>
>>Shapiro is one of the chief architects of the 8-VSB fiasco. His attitude is similar to many at the FCC and Congress that OTA is "essentially dead".
>>
>>As most of the world enjoys a rebirth of OTA it will be increasingly hard to justify this BS.
>>
>>As Shapiro spoke Murdock's SKY satellite service is getting creamed by OTA in Europe. The US is the only country where this public be damned attitude
>>is allowed to flourish for the benefit of competitors to OTA, cable and satellite.
>>
>>Congress and the FCC would have you believe that their interest is in fostering competition for cable and satellite. I guess that is why they
>>chose a modulation, 8-VSB, that has delayed the digital transition in the US for many years, doesn't work mobile and barely works fixed. That is why
>>they refuse to consider receiver standards and mandate junk 8-VSB receivers into every TV set. And soon they would buy or subsidize millions
>>of STB converter boxes with a contract to the lowest bidder sans any kind of standard.
>>
>>Bob Miller
>>
>
>
>
>
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Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Luqhe.507$X92.482@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...

"8-VSB is a political construct which has no basis in real engineering. It
was created in a back room by politicians."

I do not usually bother with refuting Bob Miller's posts. This statement,
however, is such a ridiculous mischaracterization, (check that, it is a lie)
that I cannot help but correct him. A great deal of engineering and testing
was involved in the development and adoption of the ATSC system.

A good start would be to read

http://www.zenith.com/digitalbroad [...] torial.pdf

Bob Miller has made hundreds of posts that have exaggerated the performance
advantages of COFDM over 8VSB. He has repeatedly reported virtually nothing
but bad news and bad reviews of the ATSC transition and performance. He has
consistently used out of context information to further the debate over
which modulation system is best, hoping to promote COFDM which is consistent
with his own business plans. He has made many statements that can only be
construed as a nay-saying regarding the transition to DTV and HDTV in the
US. His scare tactics, half-truths, and out of context extrapolations have
confused many and deserve to be identified. I have promoted ignoring him
with occasional corrections to his posts along with a warning. This is one
of those corrections and warnings. Anyone reading his posts should be
careful to check out the context and truthfulness of his statements.
Readers will find that the vast majority of users of OTA 8VSB based ATSC
reception have great results. There are of course problems, as there are
with COFDM based DTV in other countries. There is no reason to be alarmed
nor concerned, however, as it is highly improbable that a broadcast system
using COFDM would be adopted in the US and the current ATSC system dropped.
The fact is that 8VSB works quite well and most people who use it are
perfectly happy. Many, if not most, get their HDTV without ever using OTA.

Bob Miller has an anti-8VSB bias that is unhelpful to readers of this group
and creates more problems than he helps to solve. While everyone has a
right to an opinion, readers should be very wary of posts by Bob Miller.
The volume alone indicates a pathology.

Leonard