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Problems with 3870

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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December 2, 2007 7:13:41 AM

Hey all,

I have received my new HD3870, which replaced my old 6600GT. (I had to buy a new power supply for that b**ch)
In games (BioShock), I was amazed by the difference.
BUT, in 3D applications, such as OpenGL based programs, or Rendering, I was amazed to discover that the 3870 falls behind the 6600GT! how is that even possible?

the other problem is that the catalyst installation fails, both by the setup files comes in the CD, or even the new version at ATI website.
did anyone encountered problems with that installation?

thanks all..

More about : problems 3870

December 2, 2007 7:18:22 AM

New Catalyst should have good OpenGl performance. If you are playing with default Vista (?) drivers, since Cat instalation fails, it doesnt have OpenGl driver at all, that would explain it.

About instalation itself - its your windows problem, or maybe memory faulty, Catalyst installs just fine for millions of users.

P.S. What Cat version you install on which OS? There are different releases, be sure to install the right version.
December 2, 2007 7:27:45 AM

Cat 7.11 upon XP Pro, SP2.
It fails just before the installation:
the preview screen opens ("ATI") and than a small window called "notify", which is empty, opens, and the whole thing closes.
Related resources
December 2, 2007 7:29:23 AM

P.S.
I have unistalled all the nVidia programs, utilities and drivers prior to the new installation.
December 2, 2007 8:39:49 AM

i got it to install from the CD exactly twice - both clean builds. otherwise, i get the notify dialog which quite a few others are getting. on that same machine. growl.
December 2, 2007 9:31:40 AM

growl?
December 2, 2007 3:31:59 PM

If your software/drivers install is failing it ain't workin right bro ! It can't be tested against the old setup ..... that comparison is no good . If you can't even install the catalyst that card is not going to function at 1/10 the power output .
December 2, 2007 9:20:37 PM

Make sure you select the right catalyst version like 32 or 64 bit... I downloaded xp 64 by accident for vista 64 and obviousily it didnt work right lol....
December 3, 2007 6:22:04 PM

double checked everything.

BAD card - have to be replaced (according to ATI representative) I hat that,
going to switch to nVIDIA.
December 3, 2007 6:28:57 PM

Do you have results of an OpenGL based benchmark you ran?

This sounds a little fishy.
December 3, 2007 9:00:16 PM

no, It's obvious.
a rendered picture with 6600GT: amazing.
rendered picture with HD3870: all pixeled and bad.

in addition, my CAD software crashes every 10 minutes. thats new, I could work non-stop aith the 6600GT.
December 3, 2007 11:40:44 PM

Can you take a screenshot? I'd like to see what it's doing.
December 3, 2007 11:50:29 PM

If you're failing the driver install in Win XP pro SP2 that means there is no current driver running on your system for your card. Basically meaning you're running on software rendering for a lot of things, which will tax your cpu and slow things down. You'll get ok performance on Direct 3d based games and aps due to win XP sp2 having direct x9 going by default giving a good base set of drivers. But, you will get no openGL performance without the catalyst drivers, and you will get crashes and very poor performance visuals due to that.

There may be some kind of driver conflict thats not being seen on your pc. Or it could really be just a dud card. But remember, dud cards happen regardless of chipset. And depending on who you got it from, you should be able to exchange card no problem. With good drivers, the 3870 performs on par with the 2900xt, and even beats it in some things.
December 4, 2007 7:27:36 AM



I was able to install the driver via the "found new hardware wizrd" of windows.
the catalyst I was ablt to install only as a stand-alone unit, and not as the whole package.

I have also try to install under safe mode, as the ATI support team instructed me.
it said: "There is now hardware found to match the drivers" or something like that.
It was the same failure msg for both the CD came with the card and the new 7.11 catalyst pacakge.
the OpenGL performance are very very poor.


I have installed updated drivers for my MB, but no change.

also, the RIVA tuner won't recognize the card.
December 4, 2007 8:58:59 AM

Just wondering if there are any vestiges of the old nvidia drivers hanging around. Have you tried something like driver cleaner pro (think it is free to try)?
a b U Graphics card
December 4, 2007 9:50:56 AM

OK, before trashing the card or the company, do you have .NET installed at all? Somethings not right, and it sounds like you need to do a lil more homework
December 4, 2007 10:56:44 AM

when you removed the 6600GT, did you performa clean uninstall of the NVidia drivers using a 3rd party program? If there where remaining files from old drivers, they could be conflicting with the new ATI drivers. If not much trouble for you, try a clean Win xp installation (format c:\). This doesn't sound like a hardware problem.
December 4, 2007 11:56:13 AM

Installed (repaired .NET 2.0).
uninstalled all the drivers.
will try - driver cleaner pro.
Format - only If I will have no choise..
December 4, 2007 12:24:12 PM

not sure, but didn't catalyst require .net 1.1 or was that a previous version of catalyst. I know I had problems with the stupid .net all the time.

Make backups before you format :) .
December 4, 2007 12:47:58 PM

You know after I installed the 3870 I saw an "unknown" device which XP can't figure out what it is but it installed the 3870 and HD audio correctly. I still haven't figure out this 3rd hardware device
December 4, 2007 12:58:13 PM

Could be AVIVO, WDM (or whatever its called), if you don't install the catalyst suite, you need to download those drivers seperately and install them. Bigger problem is why you can't install the Catalyst suite. I had to install .net 1.1 and 2.0 to get mine working right. I can't even install any drivers newer than 7.1 with my x1900gt on my Samsung 204B. Won't display at native resolution even with the Alternate DVI switch enabled. Hoping that when I upgrade my video card later next year, I won't have that problem anymore.
December 4, 2007 1:10:16 PM

try another driver?

omega driver perhaps?
December 4, 2007 3:04:22 PM

Sounds like it's not the card or the company . You have a screwed up system .... file wise . Are you running legal xp with all updates installed ? Not trashing companies but ati does run cads better .... you've got driver hash .... catalyst should install correctly .... your files are corrupt or some still interfering .
December 4, 2007 3:10:30 PM

gorenziv said:
...or Rendering, I was amazed to discover that the 3870 falls behind the 6600GT! how is that even possible?


By 'rendering'... if you mean rendering image files like bitmaps or jpgs, you should know that the final render has nothing at all to do with the video card. It's all CPU and memory.

The video card can only speed up viewport refreshes. It has nothing to do with final rendering.
December 4, 2007 3:44:49 PM

Try installing the card on another computer before you send it back. It does sound like a soft issue to me as well. You might need a fresh os install in the end. Sometimes it is just a good idea to go fresh with the OS
December 4, 2007 4:06:37 PM

I have a legit VISTA, yet un-legit xp.
maybe I'll install the vista... yak.
December 4, 2007 4:13:43 PM

P.S.
what is: "driver hash"? (for trooper1947)
in addition, I need a program to clean old drivers. any suggestions?
December 4, 2007 4:21:17 PM

I use Regcleaner and love it. you can DL it here:

http://www.321download.com/LastFreeware/index.html youll find it about half way down the page.

Once you get it installed, go to the Tools Menu> Registry Cleanup> Do them all.

It also has an uninstalled tab that you can use to uninstalled everything with.
a b U Graphics card
December 4, 2007 8:13:06 PM

Driver cleaner pro, its the easiest and best. Make sure youve downloaded .NET 1.1 BEFORE installing/downloading 2.0
December 4, 2007 8:20:39 PM

Tried everything here,
nothing works.
December 4, 2007 8:21:57 PM

out of curiosity, is your windows XP copy a slipstreamed copy of XP pro? Meaning it was originally a WinXP Pro disk that was made before any service packs, that was copied to hard disk, and had the SP's applied to the install files. If this is so, there would be no version of .net framework installed with the XP service pack 2 install. It's one of the few ways to have SP2 on winXP without having .net 1.1 on your system, as Sp2 requires it before it will apply.
December 5, 2007 6:35:37 AM

No, I have it in one built/
in addition, I have un-installed, and than installed framework 1.1, SP1, 2, SP1.
December 5, 2007 7:22:16 AM

I have the same problem you describe with catalyst 7.11 but on WinXP MCE Sp2. Catalyst 7.10 installs fine however 7.11 will not work no matter what I do. I just did a fresh install of XP MCE and have installed the latest .net framework and everything else I could think of (DirectX sept 2007 install, all other system drivers fully updated).

You could possibly try the 7.10 drivers aswell, they are still avaliable for download from the ATI/AMD website and are identical in performance to 7.11 (at least the patch notes dont suggest any perf gains).
December 5, 2007 10:46:47 AM

blashyrkh said:
when you removed the 6600GT, did you performa clean uninstall of the NVidia drivers using a 3rd party program? If there where remaining files from old drivers, they could be conflicting with the new ATI drivers. If not much trouble for you, try a clean Win xp installation (format c:\). This doesn't sound like a hardware problem.


DO NOT FORMAT

Try installing a new windows (windows.0) if it works, you can choose to continue with new one or fighting to fix old one. You do not need to destroy data and reinstall a lot of programs, even the where at other partition.

If it works... you can copy the boot and the system & system32 ati files. It would work. Also you can install drivers from windows.0 system & system32 being at tour old windows system upgrade drivers.

Last but not least there are a opengl test named Lightsmark 2007 run it for opengl test for being sure.
December 5, 2007 12:29:08 PM

fo you mean I shoul install a fresh copy of windowsXP sp2, so I will have two operating system on the computer?
can I do it also on drive C without formating the drive?
December 5, 2007 12:47:43 PM

I think I'd rather format that OS partition and do a new clean install. But that's just me, I guess.
December 5, 2007 8:42:16 PM

Great news, and bad news.
the great news are that after installing a fresh windows, the drivers are fully installed. great ha?

nope.

using my CAD software is worse than ever. even in the old configuration, with the "half-driver installation", the CAD software crashed, but easly.
here the thing is that the system halts, the screen goes dark, after 30sec - 2min, a msg is being dispalyed: HydraVision had to restart your VPU, blah blah blah.

It's worst than ever!!!
is there any way to examin if the rest of the computer is fine?
can it memory / CPU problem?
How can I check it?

thanks...
December 5, 2007 10:01:19 PM

Additional DATA:

ok, so after the lousy resault with CAD software, I tried to run 3Dmark05.
system halted, the program wont even start. likewise both OS's.

took out the ATI, put back my old 6600GT.
run it on both OS's, same resaults:
1. 3Dmark working perfectly well.
2. CAD software, allthough working some-how slower, IT WONT CRASH, no matter how hard I'm pusgin it.
SYSTEM OVERALL PERFORMANCE - faster, I don't know why. (response time, XP upload, etc...)
which made me think, is it possible that the Radeon just conflicts with something else?

anyhow, I'm quite pissed off. after success with the ATI driver installation, it still makes the system crash, work much more slowly, flickering during movies (stright linear line every now and than).
the nVidia 6600GT won't stuck or crash, and from some reason I don't quite understand, the overall system performance is better.

right now, after all the tests, I have twicked to 6600GT into QuadroFX540, ecerything still stable, all the tests as mentioned have been tried again, same reasult, but 500 more pts in 3Dmark.

I'm sorry to say, but I have to say I think the card is damaged, or in someway, conflicts with another hardware I have.

what do you guys think?

P.S.,
running the LightsMark2007 reasulted in 86.5 FPS with the ATI. 38.8 FPS for the 6600GT, meaning that the AT should have coped better with the CAD, where its crashes, I think.

It's up to you now experts... to start yelling at the sales representitve, or to conduct additional tests?
December 5, 2007 11:56:45 PM

Hi all,
I find this very interesting.
I am going to build a workstation for my son and know only enough to be dangerous so I too am interested in what the experts say.
He uses auto cad for work on his computer and the internet mostly and would like to play games occasionally.
The mb I am going to use the the ASUS P5E3 Deluxe/WiFi board with the Intel X38 chipset.
I'm not sure what to do about a video card and what I have read was the ATI Open GL cards are the way to go for Cad.
I too in the past had nightmares with an ATI card. I remember spending lots of $$$ thinking boy I am getting the best and had nothing but problems.
So after a few months I scrapped it and boght an NVidia card and everything went great from that point.
So while leaning toward the ATI HD3870 right now I am having second thoughts and thinking about using the ASUS 8800GT instead which has the Nvidia chipset.
The only thing I worry about with the 8800 is will it run autocad well?
Does anyone know if autocan and the 8800 get along and work well together?
Thanks
December 6, 2007 3:17:26 AM

Look, the card has what it takes to run auto-cad, but if you can tweak it into Quadro FX series, better.
I am not sure it is still posible with the 8800GT, as it's a new chipset, that maybe doens't have Quadro based on, yet.
December 6, 2007 3:32:13 AM

do a windows update
clear all drives
load drivers 2 times

turn off the computer for 1 min between rounds - from the back if your psu has no switch pull he plug an clear the memory
a b U Graphics card
December 6, 2007 3:45:07 AM

gorenziv said:
Additional DATA:

ok, so after the lousy resault with CAD software, I tried to run 3Dmark05.
system halted, the program wont even start. likewise both OS's.


3Dmark doesn't work with any of the HD2K & HD3K cards without applying Futuremark's fix.

http://service.futuremark.com/support/search.jsp?cid=14...

It's a futuremark issue, not the graphics card.

As for the rest, I don't know where to begin, because at this point I don't know where your PC has reached in terms of bit-rot and other happenings. It could be a bad card, bad installation, bad memory or whatever else. But at some point regardless of what it is you simply return it. I still thin it's mainly user error, but at this point trouble shooting it is just made more complicated.

The card should run rings around the GF6600, but any card with a poor installation just chugs.

You can soft Mod HD2Ks to fireGL, but not sur about HD3K, and at this point I think it'd be adding more complications to your situation.
December 6, 2007 3:48:38 AM

I have a 3870. I dont have .net frame crap or whatever its called. The card runs fine, just cant use catalyst control center. Prefer rivatuner anyway
December 6, 2007 4:02:03 AM

.net frame crap is in your windows os

if your os is updated you have it
December 6, 2007 7:56:44 PM

gorenziv said:
P.S.
what is: "driver hash"? (for trooper1947)
in addition, I need a program to clean old drivers. any suggestions?


It's just a logo we put on systems that have had multiple drivers installed .... over and over ... especially different brand card drivers and leftover files and dlls and trash files corrupting any good installation of working drivers . I know it's a real pain but a whole new install of an OS does miracles not only for that problem but usually brings performance up by eliminating a whole slew of dead files slowing down your system . Especially if one installs and uninstalls a good bit . HASH = drivers hashing and conflicting each other --- :pt1cable:  < --- they look like that smiley to windows . The cat-uninstaller from ATI wipes all ati drivers out ... completely ... ya can get it at ATI website free . I don't know about a free .... best one for nvidia .... maybe one of these guys can direct you to one . Not a bad idea to have one for both on hand .
December 15, 2007 5:48:39 AM

So,
just brought a new 8800GT from singapore. (very cheap there)
it'x XFX's.

I have to say it's beat the sh&t out of the 3870.
got almost 400FPS in the lightsmark, 17400 in 3dmark05,
and the most amazing thing: my CAD softwares just works so good.

this is so strange.
!