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939 Socket / DDR2 motherboard exists?

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December 20, 2007 11:57:28 AM

My Asus A8V-E Deluxe motherboard recently died, and I have no choice but to replace it. And since it's not really fun to get something you already have again, I was thinking maybe I could make a small upgrade while buying a new mb. But my processor is AMD Athlon XP 64 3.2ghz. It's a 939 socket processor, so I have to get a mb which supports my cpu. I was thinking, if I can buy a mb which supports ddr2, I would buy new ddr2 rams and it could be a small upgrade for me.

What do you guys think? Is it possible for me to a get an upgrade here somehow? Or the only choice here is to replace my current (dead) mb with a new one with the same specs?

The rest of my system is 6800gt, Antec 430 watt psu, 200gb sata seagate hdd 1,5gigs of kingston ddr. I'm a bit low on budget but I think I can spend 150-200$ for some minor upgrade. Thats why I thought of the replacement of the dead mb, plus some rams. If my motherboard wasn't dead I could straightly go for a new graphics card but hell.. it is.
December 20, 2007 12:20:09 PM

The answer to me is no.

The momomy controler on this AMD CPU is inside the CPU itself so it can only work with the memory it was designed to work with, in this case DDR.

The only processor from AMD that support DDR2 are the AM2 and AM@+ socket processor.

Sry but you will have to choice between replacing only your mobo or a complete new system.
December 20, 2007 12:27:34 PM

I see.. Just checked wikipedia about the memory controller. You're right. I didn't know this.

"The memory controller is a chip on a computer's motherboard or CPU die which manages the flow of data going to and from the memory.

Most computers based on an Intel processor have a memory controller implemented on their motherboard's north bridge, though some modern microprocessors, such as AMD's Athlon 64 and Opteron processors, IBM's POWER5, and Sun Microsystems UltraSPARC T1 have a memory controller on the CPU die to reduce the memory latency"

So it's completely incompatible with ddr2.
Thanks for the reply.
Related resources
December 20, 2007 12:32:40 PM

I know it's highly unlikely, but maybe the memory chip "does" support ddr2. There could be some ddr2 at the time I bought the cpu though I don't remember. How can I be sure the cpu supports ddr only?
a c 435 V Motherboard
December 20, 2007 12:53:25 PM

I asked amd why they didn't develop a ddr chipset for am2. They told me that there was no incentive to use am2 with older technology. So, in a nutshell, socket 939 is ddr 184 pin only; am2 is ddr2 240 pin only. Neither cpu will recognize a different ram; asrock has some motherboards with ddr or ddr2 support for some core2 duo cpus; this is not possible for amd.
December 20, 2007 12:58:03 PM

Even if your CPU did support DDR2, DDR and DDR2 don't have the same pin and voltage configuration so DDR2 won't work in a DDR motherboard.Quote from Wikipedia:
Quote:
DDR SDRAM DIMMs have 184 pins (as opposed to 168 pins on SDRAM, or, 240 pins on DDR2 SDRAM), and can be differentiated from SDRAM DIMMs by the number of notches (DDR SDRAM has one, SDRAM has two). DDR SDRAM operates at a voltage of 2.5 V, compared to 3.3 V for SDRAM. This can significantly reduce power usage. Note: some DIMMs have nominal voltage of 2.6 V [1].
a c 151 V Motherboard
December 20, 2007 1:33:20 PM

How about a core system upgrade:

Intel Setup:
Motherboard - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Processor - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Memory - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Total: $191.97 in the cart.

AMD Setup:
Motherboard - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Processor - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Memory - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Total: $192.97 in the cart.

-Wolf queries

Edit: Sorry - Had to change the processor from Brisbane to Windsor. That Brisbane processor is not supported on the Gigabyte motherboard.
December 20, 2007 2:22:18 PM

o1die said:
I asked amd why they didn't develop a ddr chipset for am2. They told me that there was no incentive to use am2 with older technology. So, in a nutshell, socket 939 is ddr 184 pin only; am2 is ddr2 240 pin only. Neither cpu will recognize a different ram; asrock has some motherboards with ddr or ddr2 support for some core2 duo cpus; this is not possible for amd.

I don't think the memory controller of am2 k8s can handle DDR2 at all. Even if it could the voltage difference is too large. Running am2 K8s memory with 2.5v is the best ticket to fry the CPUs IMC, well unless you run the CPU at 2v too...
a c 435 V Motherboard
December 20, 2007 3:09:46 PM

Voltage isn't the problem. You need a chipset for am2 to recognize ddr. I was hoping via or amd could develop one as they did for Intel core2 duo. I like the asrock funky chipset boards that can run either type of memory.
December 20, 2007 3:48:03 PM

o1die said:
Voltage isn't the problem. You need a chipset for am2 to recognize ddr. I was hoping via or amd could develop one as they did for Intel core2 duo. I like the asrock funky chipset boards that can run either type of memory.


That is because the meomory controller for AMD is intergrated in CPU and for Intell it is on the mother board chip set. That is why AMD discontinued 939 went to AM2 so it would support DDR2. That is why Asrock did not make a mother board that would support both because they couldn't, it would only work for Intell. The only way to upgrade to DDR2 on some of those Asrock AMD mother boards was to buy a CPU upgrade board that plugged into a special slot on the mother board. The upgrade board had a slot for the new AM2 cpu and slots for DDR2 memory.


December 20, 2007 3:51:25 PM

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it is not possible for a 939 skt cpu to run ddr2 memory because of the IMC. Am2 offers no real world performance increase over 939 even though it uses ddr2 ram. Am2 was purely invented for ddr2 as Am3 will be for ddr3.

ddr2 does not fit in a ddr1 slot so the cpu not recognising it isn't even an issue. The same applies for 939 cpu's fitting in Am2 boards they have a different number of pins in a different arrangement 939-940 pins.

Your only choice if you want to keep your current cpu is to buy a 939 skt mobo. However seeing as AMD stopped manufacturing them about 2 years ago they will be hard to track down and/or overpriced.

Your best option is to go for an upgrade.

http://secure.newegg.com/Shopping/ShoppingCart.aspx?Depa=0&Submit=view&Name=My-Shopping-Cart

$203.00 so its a tiny bit over you budget but its much better than your current system. Its similar to Wolfshadw AMD system but with a better mobo.

The Intel system Wolfshadw recommend is not as fast as the AMD system at stock but overclocked it would leave the AMD system way behind.
December 20, 2007 6:14:25 PM

Thank you for the replies. As you guys told me, I've thought of completely replacing the mobo, cpu, and rams but there's a small bit that doesn't quite fit to my head.

The clock speed of the cpu I have is 3.2 ghz right now. If I went for an upgrade and bought a, let's say an E2160, one core speed will be 1.8ghz. Isn't there going to be a performance decrease when compared to a 3.2 ghz processor? Of course there's the fact that it has 2 cores, but when thought generally about the programs in windows, won't it work slower? Though it will be better at some games I guess.

What's the difference between Duo Core and Duo 2 Core? I get to have a E4500 if I give 45$ more.

Recently I did a lot of research about motherboards and saw that Gigabyte's D3SL motherboard is quite preferred and is great for overclocking. Since the gap between Wolfshadw's advice and D3SL isn't so big, would it be clever if I bought a D3SL and saved money for a cheap duo 2 core and overclock it? It would be more expensive but it would be more "lasting" I think.

How about my graphic card (6800GT) perform after an upgrade like this? Bottlenecks? Guess I would have to upgrade it too in the future.

December 20, 2007 6:59:47 PM

Pharaun said:
Thank you for the replies. As you guys told me, I've thought of completely replacing the mobo, cpu, and rams but there's a small bit that doesn't quite fit to my head.

The clock speed of the cpu I have is 3.2 ghz right now. If I went for an upgrade and bought a, let's say an E2160, one core speed will be 1.8ghz. Isn't there going to be a performance decrease when compared to a 3.2 ghz processor? Of course there's the fact that it has 2 cores, but when thought generally about the programs in windows, won't it work slower? Though it will be better at some games I guess.

What's the difference between Duo Core and Duo 2 Core? I get to have a E4500 if I give 45$ more.

Recently I did a lot of research about motherboards and saw that Gigabyte's D3SL motherboard is quite preferred and is great for overclocking. Since the gap between Wolfshadw's advice and D3SL isn't so big, would it be clever if I bought a D3SL and saved money for a cheap duo 2 core and overclock it? It would be more expensive but it would be more "lasting" I think.

How about my graphic card (6800GT) perform after an upgrade like this? Bottlenecks? Guess I would have to upgrade it too in the future.



Do you mean your 939 CPU is a 3200+ it runs at 2.0 ghz......is that what you mean? I doubt it runs at 3.2 ghz. If it does that is one hell of an over clock. Sounds like you need a complete upgrade. You can find 939 motherboards at New Egg but it probabaly is time for a new system. How much did you say you could spend?
December 21, 2007 8:42:51 AM

You're right. The clock speed is 2.0. My mistake. I think I can get a good overclocker motherboard as i told above, and a mid range CPU. I'm considering Wolfshadw's build also but there's so little price difference between some products.

For example: E2160 79.99$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

On the other hand: E2180 84.99$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Even an E4500: 124$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I don't know man.. I just can't decide. I guess I could even pay for a E6750+GA DS3L+2gb DDR2 800 rams but it's really difficult to part with the money I've earned over the last 3 months. :\

Sorry for being so indecisive. I'll have to make a decision sooner or later. I may get a core 2 duo system and get a new vid card in the future.
December 21, 2007 9:20:25 AM

Wolfshadw's Intel setup is your best bet, except here's better memory for cheaper:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

You really owe it to yourself to look into BIOS overclocking; it's very simple at moderate levels and can save anyone looking to buy a new processor hundreds of dollars.

Once your core system is built, start saving pennies for a new graphics card, an HD 3850 or 8800 GT will offer stellar performance increase over your 6800GT, but they need that extra power from your CPU and memory to perform in all their glory.
December 21, 2007 9:52:19 AM

Thanks for the link. Though it's hard to find that cheap memory in my country.

I'll certainly get into bios overclocking when I buy a cpu.

8800GT can perform to its full glory with a E2160 and a cheap mb? I thought 8800GT was one of the higher end cards.

Would I need to buy a new PSU? I have Antec 430w atm.


a b V Motherboard
December 21, 2007 10:34:20 AM

The PSU is fine.
8800GT will perform not to it's highest degree but to a degree you won't get from another card. It is worth investing in.
December 21, 2007 10:37:07 AM

Clocked at 3Ghz, very attainable for that proc, an 8800GT will not be CPU bottlenecked. Motherboard quality rarely has much effect on performance, better ones just provide higher stable overclocks and more fanciful features and options that you may or may not even use. The Gigabyte P31 board wolf linked however is a good overclocking board on the cheap. You can look into slightly more expensive, yet more featureful P35 boards.

I wasn't aware you were outside the US, but at least the newegg links give you a good idea of what to look for.

As for your PSU, 430W is sufficient for this build provided it has enough amps on the 12v rails. Specify the exact model and we'll look it up or look at the sticker on the side to see amp ratings.
December 21, 2007 11:15:56 AM

Square peg. Round hole. 'Nuff said.
December 21, 2007 1:04:18 PM

Nice answer rodney :) 

As for the PSU details here it goes,

Antec Performance True430P 430W Max With PFC

AC Input
230V/5A; 47~63Hz
DC Output +5V +12V +3.3V -5V -12V +5V SB
Max. 36A 20A 28A 0.5A 1.0A 2.0A
Min. 0A 0.8A 0A 0A 0A 0A

+5V, +12V and +3.3V max. load 410W
+5V, +12V & +3.3V, Charge maximale: 410W
Max, last for +5V,+12V and +3.3V:410W

I bought this PSU exactly 2 years and 7 months ago. I know it's old, but I don't understand why a working known brand PSU should be replaced if its compansating the voltage demands and working properly. Though if it needs to be replaced, it needs to be replaced. I wouldn't want to put the new system I bought in danger.
December 21, 2007 1:20:09 PM

By the way JuiceJones, are you talking about the E2160 proc? If so, are you saying that it can be overclocked from 1.8 to 3.0? That seemeed a hell of an overclock to me. Though I don't really understand from overclocking.
December 21, 2007 2:27:12 PM

28A on the 12v rail seems good enough, it may be borderline if you start overclocking like mad and get a power hungry card, but Antec is normally a good brand and I'd definitely try it before replacing it. Though it just occurred to me, being that old I hope it has the extra 4-pin connector on the 20-pin motherboard plug that newer boards require. Check that out.

And yes, E2160 can hit 3Ghz with STOCK cooling, it's quite phenomenal. Check out Tom's article on it, they achieve 3.2Ghz on the standard air cooler:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/09/12/pentium_dual_cor...

This is due to it's low FSB of 200Mhz and decent multiplier of 9x. Its bigger siblings run higher FSBs of 266Mhz (E6x00) and 333Mhz (E6x50), and there's nothing stopping this cheap little processor from running at the same speeds. 333 x 9 = 3Ghz, and a little more can be squeezed out.
December 21, 2007 6:32:39 PM

Holy Sh&%! This is awsome. Read the whole review. It even competes with the 280$ E6850.. Here's a couple of questions:

"In fact, the processor cores are the same, but the CPU comes with only 1 MB L2 cache instead of 2 MB or even 4 MB. In addition, some features, such as Intel's Virtualization Technology (VT) are disabled"

-What disadvantage does having a 1mb L2 cache have when you compare it to procs which have 2 or 4mb L2 cache? What's the loss here?

-How useful is Intel's Virtualization Technology (VT)? Something to be cried after?

If E2160 is that good, why should anyone buy an E6750 when E2160 is much cheaper and offers the same (even more) performance?

-Juice, I see you have an E6400 overclocked to 3.2. What's the reason you didn't do this with an E2160?

I loved it by the way. So cheap. So fast. If I buy this I can buy a 8800GT easier..
December 21, 2007 6:39:10 PM

About the PSU, yes it has the 4 pin connector which is connected to the side of the graphic card, if that's the one you asked. Actually I used it with 6800GT the whole time. I think I should try with this PSU first like you said. Since I'm not getting a power hungry quad core or something like that, it should be ok. Though I'll calculate the voltage once I've decided on the whole system
December 21, 2007 8:14:53 PM

the E2160/80 and such are newer processors. The E6400/E6300/E6600 and such were the first core2duos to be released. The E6x50/E6x00 and such can hit above 3.0. Like ~4.0. depending how 'good' of a chip you have and how cool everything is. Also the E21xx have like a 1mb cache size and yes , cache does matter, most of the time for the most part
blahhh
December 22, 2007 1:17:24 AM

The cache helps on applications that benefit from quicker memory access, but only by a small margin. I would estimate the delta between 1mb of and 2mb is something between 3%~5% and then 6%~10% for the 4mb. These estimates may be a little rough, but a 3.3Ghz E21x0 should run on par with a 3Ghz E6xx0.

I got my E6400 last Christmas, when it was the second cheapest C2D available at $200, and still one of the best price/performance parts around. If I were building this now, I'd probably opt for an E2160 or E4x00 part.

The reason to buy a higher end E6750 is because it can achieve higher clocks than the E2160 and has more cache, but the performance difference over the E2160 doesn't warrant the additional costs in most people's budget. E2160 is killer.

And as for the 4-pin connector thing, I was referring to the long, white plug that plugs into the motherboard. Hopefully you'll see a 4-pin add-on that can clip onto the side.
December 22, 2007 6:54:41 AM

I think I get what you mean about the 4 pin connector. It goes into a square which has 4 squares inside. It's white, it's near the cpu. Is this it? :) 

You seem to really know what you are saying, and I think I'm convinced about buying an E2160. I hope you are right about the L2 caches.

I'm really tired of researching, let's just choose me a motherboard and ram for E2160 and be done with it. The ones Wolfshadw suggested isnt found on the site I'm going to buy.

Can we choose a motherboard for me here? It needs to be cheap and help me reach 3.0 with the e2160.

http://www.vatanbilgisayar.com/products.aspx?L1=OEM&L2=...

Also, what choice do I have besides getting 8800GT? It's a bit out of my range.

Should I buy the rams in 667 speed or 800? Here's the rams page:
http://www.vatanbilgisayar.com/products.aspx?L1=OEM&L2=...

I'm sorry I took a lot of your time. It'll be over soon.
!