upgrading my PC.

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I want to upgrade my PC, (bought new in March 2004), so that I can play Microsoft Flight Sim X, Call of Duty 4 , and other latest games. My PC spec is -Intel P4 3.2GHZ Processor, 800mhz. Asus P4S 800-SC-P4 Motherboard. 160GB HDD, 512mb PC3200 Memory. Radeon 9800 Pro 128Mb Graphics card. PSU 300Watt. I know I need to add more memory,and probably a better PSU, and a better graphics card. If I keep the existing Motherboard and Processor and fit more memory, What PSU and Graphics card would be suitable with a total price of around £150.

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So you know Microsoft Flight Simulator is extremely processor intensive.

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Reply to cnumartyr

I would start with another 512 meg stick of pc3200, assuming you already have the same installed. I say this as I have one board with 2 256 meg sticks; you want to match the same size in pairs for dual channel mode. Then try running the games in medium resolution. You want to put as little money into your current system as possible. Agp is dead; so getting a high end agp card makes little sense as your board could fail soon, forcing you to put more money into a dated system. You would be better served saving more for a proper upgrade: board, cpu, memory, power supply, and pci-e card.

Reply to o1die

I already have problems with my present system. I can be playing a game such as Call Of Duty 2 when the whole screen will dissapear in a mass of artifacting. I have learnt how to cure this temporarily by removing the graphics card from it`s slot then refitting it. This works for sometimes a few hours, sometimes a couple of days but the problem always returns. It seems as if the card is not making proper contact in it`s slot. If the AGP slot is faulty then I suppose that any new card could show the same problem. The only other thing I`ve done is to remove the case sides for extra ventilation.

Reply to norton

I wouldn't sink more money in that system.

Can you get something like this?
GA-P35-DS3L, E2180, OCZ StealthXStream 600W, HD 3850, 2GB DDR2-800, Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro

Reply to aevm

aevm wrote :

I wouldn't sink more money in that system.

Can you get something like this?
GA-P35-DS3L, E2180, OCZ StealthXStream 600W, HD 3850, 2GB DDR2-800, Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro



I am not sure what these components are, can you give me more details please.

Reply to norton

I wouldn't do an upgrade. good agp cards are close to $200, while a new build can be around $300

a p35 chipset motherboard
e21xx processor
2gb ddr2 ram
~400w quality psu
8600gt gpu

not sure what your prices are, but the above cost me about $300 (or around 150 pounds).

Reply to nvalhalla

norton wrote :

I am not sure what these components are, can you give me more details please.



GA-P35-DS3L, E2180, OCZ StealthXStream 600W, HD 3850, 2GB DDR2-800, Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro

Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L mobo, $103
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] A-P35-DS3L

Intel CPU E2180, $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819116052

OCZ StealthXStream PSU, $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817341010

HD 3850 video card, PCI-E, $175
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814161211

2 GB Crucial Ballistix RAM, $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820146565

Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro CPU Cooler, $22
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835186134

You can reuse your old case, hard disk and DVD/CD drive. Total $515 including shipping. OK, you'll need to pay a bit more and wait for mail rebates, but that's about it. For best results overclock the CPU.

Edit: oops, you need something for the UK, not newegg. Anyway, use the newegg links for info. Do some shopping around, for example at www.ebuyer.com and www.overclockers.co.uk. The way prices are in the UK it would probably cost 500 pounds rather than 500 dollars, sorry man...

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by aevm on 12-10-2007 at 03:29:45 PM
Reply to aevm

With 3.2 ghz, 1GB of RAM and Geforce 8600 (you would have to upgrade your RAM and GPU), Call of duty 4 runs very well. But since you mentioned you'd like to play all the other latest games as well, if you want to play those games at good resolutions and playable frame rates, Geforce 8600 and 3.2ghz wont be sufficient.... go for an Intel E2100 and an ATI Radeon HD 3850.

I'm not saying Call of duty 4 would run on a lower end system because it has crappy graphics...believe me, they're bombastic. Hats off to Infinity Ward, which developed COD4, for managing to achieve the feat of running good resolutions at good frame rates for low end hardware.

BUT if u want to play Crysis or Bioshock or the upcoming Far Cry 2 or whatever, a high end rig is but needed. You wont be disappointed with the Radeon 3850. Its got great bang for buck.

Reply to mihirkula

I'll probably get flamed for posting links to the Inquirer, but this time they did write a nice article :lol:

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inqu [...] ot-desired

The HD 3850 is far better than some other cards that cost about the same. I'm actually starting to feel optimistic about AMD after seeing this card's reviews. A little more work on the CPU side and I think they'll be profitable again.

Reply to aevm

aevm wrote :

GA-P35-DS3L, E2180, OCZ StealthXStream 600W, HD 3850, 2GB DDR2-800, Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro

Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L mobo, $103
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] A-P35-DS3L

Intel CPU E2180, $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819116052

OCZ StealthXStream PSU, $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817341010

HD 3850 video card, PCI-E, $175
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814161211

2 GB Crucial Ballistix RAM, $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820146565

Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro CPU Cooler, $22
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835186134

You can reuse your old case, hard disk and DVD/CD drive. Total $515 including shipping. OK, you'll need to pay a bit more and wait for mail rebates, but that's about it. For best results overclock the CPU.

Edit: oops, you need something for the UK, not newegg. Anyway, use the newegg links for info. Do some shopping around, for example at www.ebuyer.com and www.overclockers.co.uk. The way prices are in the UK it would probably cost 500 pounds rather than 500 dollars, sorry man...


Reply to norton

Thanks aevm, I have checked the prices of those items in the UK. About £320. It`s more than I want to pay so I will have to forego playing the latest games for now. I will add another 512MB Memory, and a new AGP graphics card. Do you know where I can find info about which AGP card will work OK with a 300W power supply?.

Reply to norton

Try this:
http://www.extreme.outervision.com [...] orlite.jsp

Look at these cards: 7600GT (DDR3 version, don't buy the DDR2 version), 7900GS, 2600XT, X1950Pro.

You can find some benchmarks here:
http://www23.tomshardware.com/grap [...] &chart=296

Reply to aevm

Get 2GB of cheap ram +/- $50 (US). Get a 7900GS, 7950GT for <$200. Use the balance to get a 450w PSU. Should just fit within your budget.

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Reply to nhobo

I definetly recommend the x1950pro! It was going to be my choice until I decided to go for a new PC overall :)

Reply to MaxRabbit

Thanks to everyone for your help. I will get the X 1950 Pro and more memory and see how I get on with that.As you say, It`s not worth spending a lot on and perhaps in a year or so I will be able to afford a new high spec PC.

Reply to norton

norton wrote :

Thanks to everyone for your help. I will get the X 1950 Pro and more memory and see how I get on with that.As you say, It`s not worth spending a lot on and perhaps in a year or so I will be able to afford a new high spec PC.


The x1950 pro is a fine card, but I doubt it will run on that 300w PSU. The highest I would try would be the 7600gt. Depending on the game, it will get you at least 1024x768 at med settings(COD4, Bioshock). Crysis will be more like 800x600 at low settings.

------------------------------ I know what I know, and I don't know what I don't know.
Reply to tlmck

I am no computer expert so I am a bit confused. There are 5 PCI slots on my motherboard. the manual says "The slots support PCI cards such as a LAN card,SCSI card,USB card, and other cards that comply with PCI specifications". I presume that a PCI express graphics card will not work in one of these slots, or even fit the slot. Am I right?. The motherboard manual also says "When you buy an AGP card make sure you get one with +1.5V or +0.8V specification, the motherboard does not support 3.3V AGP cards." Are all the cards that have been mentioned +1.5V or +0.8V spec?.

Reply to norton

I believe you've got this mobo, or something very similar. It supports AGP 4x or 8x. Yes, all those cards are supported.
http://www.superwarehouse.com/p.cf [...] PAodVS6o6Q
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_Graphics_Port

PCI and PCI-E are different things, incompatible. Even physical size differs. There are PCI video cards but they are usually crappier even than the worst AGP cards. That is, AGP was invented especially because PCI wasn't fast enough. No PCI card can play Crysis, for example, AFAIK.

The X1950Pro is faster than the 7900GS but I'm not sure your PSU can support it, especially as PSU output becomes weaker as years go by. Also, your CPU may bottleneck the X1950Pro. I think I'd get the 7900GS.

Edit: 5 PCI slots, sweet. I wish they offered that sort of thing again. I could have my modem, X-Fi, two TV tuners, FireWire.... The current trend is to use USB, but that means a mess of cable hanging near the PC.


Message edited by aevm on 12-11-2007 at 06:51:49 PM
Reply to aevm

Thanks tlmck and aevm. So it`s down to the 7600GT or the 7900GS. Which of those 2 is the higher spec, and will the 300w PSU run either of them?.

Reply to norton

7900gs is the higher spec, and burns about 10 more watts than the 7600gt. If the label on the PSU lists the +12v wattage separately from the 300w, you want to divide that by 12. The remaining number will be the total amperage you have on the 12v rail. For best operation, you need about 17a minimum for the 7600gt, and 20a minimum for the 7900gs.

------------------------------ I know what I know, and I don't know what I don't know.
Reply to tlmck

tlmck wrote :

7900gs is the higher spec, and burns about 10 more watts than the 7600gt. If the label on the PSU lists the +12v wattage separately from the 300w, you want to divide that by 12. The remaining number will be the total amperage you have on the 12v rail. For best operation, you need about 17a minimum for the 7600gt, and 20a minimum for the 7900gs.


Thanks for the info, will check that out.

Reply to norton

Have just checked my PSU. The various outputs have the Amperages listed. The 12V rail has 18 Amps, so I guess I should get the 7600GT.

Reply to norton

Yes, get the 7600GT. As I mentioned before there are two versions of it, and the one that looks best (because it has 512MB of RAM instead of 256MB) is actually much worse. Be careful to get the one with GDDR3, it's got a memory clock of 1400MHz instead of 800MHz. Funny enough, it's also cheaper. These are good, for example:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814150185
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814130062

Reply to aevm

I did a bit more research. The newegg specs for the eVGA card I listed above say this:

Minimum of a 350 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 18 Amps.)

You've got the absolute minimum of 18 amps, but your PSU may no longer be able to supply 18 amps because PSUs degrade in time. As for watts you've got only 300. I'm afraid even the 7600GT is too much for your PSU. :cry:

Can you get an OCZ StealthXStream 600W PSU and an x1950Pro (or 7900GS, or 7600GT)? If you've got enough saved for that, you'd have much better performance, no worries about the watts/amps, and the PSU can be reused in your next rig later.

Reply to aevm

I have looked everywhere but 7600GT DDR3 versions do not seem to be available in the UK now. Is it an easy job to fit a new PSU ?. If so I will go with your recommendations.

Reply to norton

If the PSU fits inside the case it's easy. I mentioned the StealthXStream because it happens to be small enough even for some HP prebuilt boxes, but you still need to check. What model is your case?

Reply to aevm

The case, according to the original sales order from Carrera computers is ATX/G.

Reply to norton

Well, that doesn't help much.

Measure your current PSU. If it's something like this (WxDxH) 15 cm x 14 cm x 8.6 cm it's perfect.

You need to divide those numbers by 2.54 if you prefer inches.
D means depth i.e. length; if your current PSU is longer than 14 cm that's even better.

Reply to aevm

Those are the exact dimensions of my PSU. I have been reading some user reviews of the OCZ PSU, it seems to be highly recommended apart from one point, that the instructions for connecting all the cables are very limited. As a newby to computer upgrading that is the one thing that worries me, will I be able to connect it up without destroying something inside my PC.

Reply to norton

Good!

Do you have a friend with experience at upgrading? Order pizza, buy some beer, let him connect everything. It should be about half an hour's work for somebody who has done it before.

How about some local shop? Ask them if they're willing to replace your PSU. I think they'd be willing to do it for $50 or less.

Or use a digital camera to keep track of where every cable goes right now, then use the photos to figure out what goes where.

Reply to aevm
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