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Is PCIe 2.0 really worth the extra money?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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December 9, 2007 4:07:39 AM

I am sorry if this question has been posted before. I did do a seach, but did not see this question being asked. Taking into fact that most X38 MB's are 50 to 100 dollars more expensive then the P35 MB's. I would like to upgrade my MB, but does getting a MB with PCIe 2.0 really worth it. Here is what I would like to upgrade to. One of the new intel quad core cpu's that come out in Jan 08. A new 8800gt 512mb, plus new memory. Have not made up my mind on the speed of the memory yet. Can I save myelf some money by getting a P35 MB, seeing that the PCIe 2.0 is not being fully used yet, or sould I just bite the bullet and go with PCIe 2.0.

More about : pcie worth extra money

December 9, 2007 4:22:05 AM

Since Nehalem (Intel's new processor that's coming out next year) won't work in a x38 board, getting a x38 board now (in my opinion) is pointless. A good P35 board will suffice.
December 9, 2007 4:47:42 AM

Yup. I agree.

Nehalem is coming out November next year, less than a year from now. Currently, there are no video cards that actually need PCIe2.0. Any card that comes out before Nehalem which would use more than PCIe 1.1 would probably have less than 5% performance difference on PCIe2.0. Any card that comes out after Nehalem that use a lot more bandwidth would probably be bottlenecked by C2Q anyway.
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December 9, 2007 5:40:04 AM

nightscope said:
Since Nehalem (Intel's new processor that's coming out next year) won't work in a x38 board, getting a x38 board now (in my opinion) is pointless. A good P35 board will suffice.


+1

Best,

3Ball
December 9, 2007 5:42:38 AM

If you are building a PC that supports 3-4x Xfire then yes its worth it. If you want to build a Spider system of any kind then yes you need it. If you are building an Intel system then no it wont make a difference as your next upgrade will be a new MB, Ram, and CPU anyways. Keep in mind that the 3800 cards are the only ones out compatable with the next release of DX10 so far.
December 9, 2007 5:45:58 AM

You guys mean "unofficially" support the Nehalem right? Cause they are supported...unofficially ;) 

Well anyways right. There is no vidcard that full takes advantage of PCIe 2.0. I believe cleeve, an old timer here, said never buy for the future. One example is AMD's 4x4 platform, which is now currently being ignored.
a c 130 U Graphics card
December 9, 2007 5:46:14 AM


Yea stick with the P35 for now i was having the same debate and have been told and seen some reviews that say you can run the QX9770 chips on one as long as you are hapy to oc, So there is plenty of CPU upgrading to be had,and as has been said it should take a while for gpu's to need pcie 2 but i still have a small niggle about the dual chip cards that are due out. Still you cant have every thing and whatever ends up using all that bandwidth needs to be better than a GTX and that level of performance will do me for a while.
TO ffffff
" Any card that comes out after Nehalem that use a lot more bandwidth would probably be bottlenecked by C2Q anyway"
Now thats a scary thought :ouch: 
Mactronix
a c 130 U Graphics card
December 9, 2007 6:34:06 AM

Evilonigiri said:
You guys mean "unofficially" support the Nehalem right? Cause they are supported...unofficially ;) 

Well anyways right. There is no vidcard that full takes advantage of PCIe 2.0. I believe cleeve, an old timer here, said never buy for the future. One example is AMD's 4x4 platform, which is now currently being ignored.


I was under the impression that the Nehalem chip was going to be on a totally different socket last i heard Intel had said that there would be different sockets for mobile /high-end desktop and mainstream desktop but hadn't confirmed what theyt are yet.
Rumoured to be LGA715 (Socket H) and LGA1160
But i must admit i haven't really been following it that closely
Mactronix
December 9, 2007 9:06:05 AM

Considering that crossfiring 3870's on an X38 mobo with PCI 2.0 outperform a single 8800 GTX and look better doing it, yeah it's worth it.
December 9, 2007 9:36:39 AM

I cant see much point in it definatly not upgrading to the new nvidia one ill just make do with my 680i LT it does the job fine.

Forget x38 and stuff tho the new ATI/AMD ones can use crossfire X that should be much better.
December 9, 2007 10:49:13 AM

There is not really any point to PCIe 2.0 at this pont in time.
There are not any GPUs that come anywhere CLOSE to saturating PCIe 1.1 slots that are on the current boards.

However, If you want to do SLI then X38 are nice because they provide two full x16 PCIe Slots which is important.

Another Option will be the NVIDIA 780i Chipset which looks like it is finally ready to start shipping this month. ASUS already has one board listed on their site and has it out for reviews. The new 780i actually has 3-way SLI which could be nice in the future if games are actually written to make sure of 3 cards.

I suspect, however, it will be a long time until many games are tweaked to properly handle 3 cards. We are just now getting games that will optimize with 2. However, it does give you a nice upgrade path in 2-3 years if you will maintain your system.

The one poster did mention that "Nehalm" will not be supported on any of these boards. That is true, but Intels next chip being released in the Penryn. This is because of the major redesign that will be in that chip.

In theorey you could go AMD with the AM2+ slot, since in 2+ years when AMD releases their next chip it may be as catch up with the Phenom considering the Barcelona can't even compete very well with the Current C2D chips, much less the upcoming Penryn.

So it would seem silly to me to buy a slow computer now for the next 2-3 years on the off chance it could be upgraded to be a decent computer years in the future.

December 9, 2007 12:13:53 PM

well i got a ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA, Q6600, and CORSAIR 800MHZ CAS4 DHX 2x1gig ram.

and im damn happy i did buy it with all the features of the motherboard..

i believe the DE9 NVIDIA 9Series card would atleast surpass PCIe1.1 bandwidth right? and i am planning to buy that video card and maybe grab a penryn around july when they drop in prices =)
December 9, 2007 12:26:39 PM

I would doubt the 9x Series will surpass the PCIe 1.1 Bandwidth.
Even the 8800GTX Ultra does not use too much more than 8x.

So, the new cards would need to be 33%-50% faster to start being limited by PCEe 1.1.

However, Even if the new cards are not limited, the x38 and other higher chipsets have nice advantages of being better suited to higher FSB. And My guess on the bandwidth limitations of PCIe for future cards is just speculation.

Before moving on the x38, I would definitely checkout some of the 780i reviews as they become available. I suspect those boards will be priced about the same range as the x38.
December 9, 2007 12:49:44 PM

mactronix said:
I was under the impression that the Nehalem chip was going to be on a totally different socket last i heard Intel had said that there would be different sockets for mobile /high-end desktop and mainstream desktop but hadn't confirmed what theyt are yet.
Rumoured to be LGA715 (Socket H) and LGA1160
But i must admit i haven't really been following it that closely
Mactronix

You are right, Nehalem is going to be on a different socket. I wonder what made Evilonigiri think otherwise?
December 9, 2007 1:37:46 PM

Most likely thinking of the Upcoming Penryn Chip.

Nehalem is the chip to be released after the next Intel Chip.
December 9, 2007 1:52:07 PM

mactronix said:
I was under the impression that the Nehalem chip was going to be on a totally different socket last i heard Intel had said that there would be different sockets for mobile /high-end desktop and mainstream desktop but hadn't confirmed what theyt are yet.
Rumoured to be LGA715 (Socket H) and LGA1160
But i must admit i haven't really been following it that closely
Mactronix


You are correct, Nehalem will use an entirely new socket and have an integrated memory controller. I think Evilonigiri was thinking about Penryn.
December 9, 2007 2:10:43 PM

homerdog said:
You are right, Nehalem is going to be on a different socket. I wonder what made Evilonigiri think otherwise?


Evilonigiri is probably thinking about unofficial support for 1600FSB processors on x38. X38 is designed for 1333, not 1600, yet it has 1600 FSB support (unoficially). But Nehalem will require a new socket, therefore, all prior processors will cease to work. There will be socket combinations of 715, 1160, and 1336. I have to admit, it's annoying that there are so many being released. It's still a bit interesting to find out which...But this might help a little..

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Intel-Reveals-Nehalem-So...

In regards to the op's question. If you plan to move to nehalem, there really is no point on nabbing a x38 board. Unless you have needs for crossfire at full x16 lanes. Chances are that the 9800 series won't break the 2.5 Gbit barrier of PCI-E 1.1...If it does, and you are planning to get that processors...then there will be a benefit..But if no..no point.

I'm waiting to find out myself for my new rig based around penryn/nivdias new high end. But I do plan to go Nehalem asap with their mid range line up. so chances are I'll nab a p35 regardless to save some money
December 9, 2007 6:07:02 PM

On the subject of unofficial support, I would surely think that some of the P35 boards will be compatible with FSB1600. Most of them OC safely beyond that anyway, so all that would be needed is a BIOS update.
December 9, 2007 6:26:07 PM

Indeed, most will..Lots of boards support the 45nm penryn. But x38 is the only one that actually states it on motherboard manufacturers web page as 1600 FSB support, while they are actually supposed to be documented at 1333FSB for x38. That's what I was trying to state. Pretty much all the boards should be able to hit the 1600 FSB, the current intel platform is indeed great.
December 9, 2007 7:01:16 PM

The biggest bottleneck problem comes from the hard drive. They have basically have remained unchanged, but I've seen some hope, but it's still in early testing..I don't mind that the new tech keeps coming out though, makes the good stuff cheaper!! Unless your a cyborg your just paying top dollar for 2.0..Many people stated this already in a different way..
December 9, 2007 9:36:01 PM

saintones said:
The biggest bottleneck problem comes from the hard drive. They have basically have remained unchanged, but I've seen some hope, but it's still in early testing..I don't mind that the new tech keeps coming out though, makes the good stuff cheaper!! Unless your a cyborg your just paying top dollar for 2.0..Many people stated this already in a different way..

I certainly agree with that. I just loaded a texture mod for Oblivion. Great performance until I start to hear that clicking sound. Then it's slideshow time for about 5 seconds.
December 10, 2007 12:36:15 AM

I'm not looking forward to Intel's Nehalem platform. It seems like the old school AMD setup, which was very frustrating as a consumer. I'd much rather them stick to one socket instead, that way I could by the cheap one at first and later upgrade to the expensive one.
December 10, 2007 9:33:27 AM

Intel has stuck with one socket for a few years now. Nehalem has a new interconnect to replace the FSB called Quickpath. That is why it requires a new socket.
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