Help with new AMD system

Spirer

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Nov 21, 2007
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Hi guys,

My house got burglared and my laptop is gone :fou:, so I need a new computer.

I have decided to build my own and the main purpose is gaming really (mostly MMOs and cars games, with a bit of FPS here and there). My budget is round £500-750 and I know my way around computers, but I'm not familiar with the performance/overclocking scene, so I guess it's better to ask for help. My main concern is that I might get 1 "bad" part that slows down the rest or do other newbie mistakes (like getting a CPU cooler that doesn't fit, etc).

I am considering going the OC route, but I don't want to do anything too extreme or complex (one step at a time). I also want to keep noise level fairly low.

I bought a Leadtek 256MB GeForce 8600GTS. I wanted an ATI card, but this seemed cheap at £60 and I can later get a higher spec one.
http://www.evesham.com/products/info.asp?e=0BC2081A-72EF-42C7-9982-2EC1FDAA7563

So I'm thinking...

CPU:
Unsure between a Athlon 64 X2 5000+ AM2 Black Edition or maybe a "normal" Athlon 5200, 5600. If my reasoning is correct the Black has lower cache, but is 65nm and seems to OC quite well, while OCing the normal ones will require better components overall.

RAM:
Thinking of getting 2GB of DDR2-800, going for 4-4-4-12 timings. I'm under the impression that 2GB will be enough.

Disk:
Western Digital Caviar SE16 320GB 7200RPM 16MB. I would like to have a fast disk, size is not a big concern, since I don't hoard MP3 or movies like most people. Thought about getting Raid 0, but probably a waste considering the budget.

Display:
Acer AL2216Wbd 22" 5ms. Can't find reviews for more 22" screens and this one seems fairly good price/quality.

Motherboard:
No idea, very confused to be honest, there is SO much choice.

Case:
No idea. I wanted a mini-tower so it's not so hard to carry around, but not sure how that works regarding fitting all in and making sure I can get enough thermal dissipation without much fan noise.


So to summarize, I want to build and AMD system, mini-tower factor, that ideally performs well for games and is as quiet as possible.

Help would be greatly appreciated since I'm a bit lost :heink:
 

cfvh600

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Oct 8, 2007
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Sorry to hear about your house. I would rather go for the 8800GT graphics card especially if you're going to game on a 22" monitor.
 

g-paw

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I'd go with the 5000+ Black Edition, even told Santa to bring me one for Christmas. Either of these ASUS boards would be good. The more expensive one had on board firewire and SLI., I use the firewire for my camcorder but if don't need either the less expensive one would work. RAM looks good, I like Crucial, good RAM and usually a good price and given prices the DDR2 800 makes sense. I think you'd be better off with a mid tower, which gives you more expansion options. If you can find a reasonably priced aluminum case, that would take care of the weight. You can also find cases with handles, which usually geared to games going to LAN parties, or what ever they're called know. If you go with the mini, the Gigabyte would be a good board, use this recently for one of my grandkids because I didn't want to fork over for a video card.

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813131022
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813131013
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813128056
 

akhilles

Splendid
ATX mobos:

590 SLI = best AM2 overclocker

ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe/Wireless

Mid-range:

MSI K9A Platinum

Budget:

Biostar Tforce 550 SE or 560 A+

mATX mobos in order of overclockability:

BIOSTAR TF7050-M2
ASUS M2A-VM HDMI

I'm not sure about the definition of mini-tower in the UK. They call mid tower midi tower. If it's matx, go with one of above.

Antec makes well-ventilated quiet cases. Take a look. Until mini-tower is defined, I can't recommend specific pc cases.
 

dwthor02

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i have a m2n-32 sli delux and i like it alot. that board is picky with memory so try to stick with corsair. if not u may run into random blue screens of death
 

Spirer

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Nov 21, 2007
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Thanks for the replies guys.

Here are some clarifications/more info. I will need wireless (was initially planning to get a PCI card), but just noticed that ASUS M2N-VM DH actually has it. Is this board any good?

cfvh600: I plan to get either a 8800GT or a 3870 in the future (3-6 months), I just grabbed this 8600GTS because it was cheap and there are stock issues with the rest here in England that are driving the prices crazy

g-paw: I think I'll go MATX, I don't really need expansion. I just need to make sure I can get the CPU and GPU in. Unless someone tells me I will have problems with heat and/or fitting the stuff in. The reason is simple, my room is tiny and I also travel a bit. Sad thing is... the good mobos seem to be ATX :(

akhilles: Thanks for the list, what do you think is best? Get a MATX with wifi or get get a separate wifi PCI card?

dwthor02: Thanks, but I'm guessing I will go MATX.
 

Spirer

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Nov 21, 2007
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Damn, I can't make my mind up.

What a about this board? It's 590SLI and much cheaper.
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Comp...+AM2?productId=23315&AID=10476630&PID=2498002

I'm starting to realize I might need to go Mid tower... When possible I will change back to wired ethernet, rather than wireless, but at the moment running a cable just isn't possible.

Regarding CPU, I guess the 5000+ BE really is the best one, do you all agree here?
 

g-paw

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The only problems with the Foxcom I see is that it only has 2 PCI slots and doesn't have passive cooling making it a bit louder. Looking at the various recommendations one of the differences is the Chipset, the newest being the 570 and 590 and if you can afford it, think one of these 2 would be best. Suggest you check out reviews of 570 and 590 mobo to see the difference and decide if the additional features of he 590 is worth the cost. Given most cards are still PCI rather than PCIe, I think the number of PCI slots is important.
 

akhilles

Splendid
While 590 SLI is the best AM2 overclocker, I don't know about Foxconn. Why do you keep looking for another board when we suggested the best? Why did you ask for suggestions in the 1st place?

5000+ Black is best bang IF you overclock. Otherwise, it's not.
 

Spirer

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Well there are stock problems and price gaps between USA and UK. Sadly some of the boards you mentioned are hard to find here (like the BIOSTAR ones).

The ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe here is like £100, the Foxcon is £51 and they both have the same chipset, so I was wondering if they might have similar overclocking potential. From your post I though you were saying that the 590 SLI chipset was the best, not the specific "ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe" board.

It's not that I'm trying to work around what you guys suggested or ignoring it, but rather that I'm trying to understand how it works and trying to find those or similar items here.

Anyway, I trying to stick with the mATX setup (really worried CPU cooler might not fit case). Here is my current setup, prices are in £s, so that's roughly times 2 in US $:
CPU: AMD Black Edition Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Socket AM2 2.6GHz Energy Efficient L2 1MB (2x512KB)
Cost: 69.58

Board: ASUS M2A-VM HDMI 690G Socket AM2 onboard VGA 6 channel audio mATX Motherboard
Cost: 34.28

GPU: Leadtek 256MB GeForce 8600GTS
Already have it

HDD: Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB SATA II 7200RPM 16MB Cache - OEM
Cost: 53.01

RAM: Corsair 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 XMS2 Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered CL4(4-4-4-12) E.P.P. Heat Spreader Lifetime Warranty
Cost: 41.00

CPU Cooler: Scythe Ninja-PLUS Rev B Socket 478, 754, 940, 775, 939 & AM2 CPU Cooler
Cost: 23.50

DVD drive: LiteOn LH-20A1S 20X SATA DVD±RW/DL Black Bare Drive - OEM
Cost: 13.90

Case: Antec NSK3480 MATX Micro Tower - With 380W EarthWatts PSU ATX12V 2.2 USB/FireWire/Audio
Cost: 46.46

Screen: Belinea 2230S1W 22" TFT Monitor Widescreen 1680x1050 1000:1 300cd/m2 5ms DVI/RGB Silver + 3 Years Warranty
Cost: 136.58

If I get this system I know expansion is limited, but I won't use more than 1 GPU, 2 HDD tops. Does that look any good?
The plan is something like:
1 - overclock CPU a bit (probably 3.0GHz)
2 - overclock GPU
3 - overlock on motherboard, to get RAM working faster
4 - lap CPU and cooler and overclock more
5 - Get a 8800GT or 3870
 

akhilles

Splendid
Just cuz it's the same chipset doesn't mean the overclockability is the same across the board. M2N32 SLI is the undisputed king. Foxconn uses the same chipset, but it MAY have a different bios which IS the key to overclocking. Every manufacturer can & will modify the bios they deem fit. Like putting Engrish, typos, etc. in there. Some even hide the most important overclocking features. I'm afraid that may be the case with Foxconn. My old Biostar for example limited my cpu multi to x13. My new biostar doesn't. Just cuz of the damn bios. Biostar did release a new bios for my old board. Just too late.

Your list looks good. The 8800GTS recommends a 375W psu. The 380W will be stressed. After a while, it may not power sufficient power & unpredictable symptoms will start poppping up. Get a 500W psu for your future upgrades & overclocking.
 

Spirer

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Each day I read a bit more about overclocking and specific components, etc.
If I was to consider only chipset alone, I would probably be happy with 560, since I don't plan on SLI or need dual ethernet.
I'm starting to understand that the boards with the more expensive chipsets also have the best capacitors, voltage regulators, bios, etc... so my cunning plan of getting a cheaper chipset (in a good board) also seems tricky.

Reading up on the Asus site.
 

Spirer

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Nov 21, 2007
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Hi guys,

Just a quick update on this one :)

I was trying to be "sensible", but I failed... ended up changing my setup to take on board all the suggestions really. So I moved to a Mid tower case, an ATX mobo and a better power supply.

Here is the final list, all the bits are now on their way, ETA is the 11th. I feel like a little kid now :whistle:

Mobo: Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe WIFI

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5000+ Black Edition
Cooler: Scythe Ninja-PLUS Rev B

GPU: Leadtek 256MB GeForce 8600GTS

RAM: Corsair 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 XMS2 Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered CL4(4-4-4-12)

HDD: Samsung SpinPoint T 500GB 7200RPM SATA 3GB/s 16MB Cache

Case: Coolermaster Elite 330 Black Case With CM eXtreme Power 460W PSU

Screen: Belinea 2230S1W 22" TFT Monitor Widescreen 1680x1050 1000:1 300cd/m2 5ms

I know the GPU is a bit weak, but later I can upgrade that.
 

Spirer

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Nov 21, 2007
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How bad is it?
What would you recommend?

That one came bundled with the case. Because of the brand I was under the impression it was OK... ah well.
 

Spirer

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Nov 21, 2007
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Thanks akhilles. So my PSU is tier 5 = sucks!
I still need to buy mouse, keyboard and headset, so I guess I'll get a new PSU as well. I can then later use this one and the old GPU for a lower spec system for my brother I guess.

How many watts should I go for?

BTW, assembled everything yesterday, powered up and run first time :)

Had some issues fitting the CPU cooler, because of the chipset coolers on the Asus, but nothing that couldn't be fixed.
 

akhilles

Splendid
Since 8800GT/HD3870 upgrade is in your plan, a tier 1/2 500W-ish will suffice. Even for some overclocking.

The sucky psu can be used as a backup or tester in the event your big psu is faulty.

Congrats on your successful build.
 

jnava121

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get a colt 1911 to take care of that burglary problem ... maybe when you are playing call of duty. you can call of duty that thief who likes to christmas shop in your house........ :)
 

Spirer

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Thank you all for your input, this was a bit nerve racking when trying to select the right CPU+Mobo+Case combination. I think ATX was definitely the better choice.

OK, so now the plan is:
Phase 1
1 - Install all the monitoring and testing software
2 - Benchmark system
3 - Change memory timings to 4-4-4-12 (Bios assumed 5-5-5-18)
4 - Benchmark again
5 - Increase the CPU multiplier a bit (see where it goes at stock V)
6 - Benchmark again

Phase 2 (after I get a new proper PSU)
This is where I plan to go for some proper OC, need to find good guides to read before that.

I will probably open new posts on the OC section when I start, see you guys there ;)

PS Any good advice on the following components (gaming is the goal):
1 - Keyboard
2 - Mouse + Pad
3 - Headset
I think wired is better than wireless, not sure if PS2 or USB for Keyboard.

PPS How important is the quality of the DVI cable? Is it worth spending some cash? Or I just being picky?
 

g-paw

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The DVI cable that comes with the Monitor should be fine. Recently read a review on audio cable, which basically concluded there was not a noticeable difference between high price and medium priced cables, likely the same for video. Unfortunately, don't remember where I read this. Reason I prefer PS2 is that it frees up USB ports and if there is a problem with your USB ports, your SOL without a mouse and/or keyboard.
 

akhilles

Splendid
I propose:

phase 1:
1 - tighten timings to specs in bios
2 - memtest 8 hours
3 - bench
4 - overclock the cpu while keeping the ram around stock
5 - memtest 1 pass or superpi 2mb
6 - orthos 8 hours

Done. It's more or less how I do. I jump right in & squeeze every bit of juice out of it.

There's an o/c guide in o/c forum. Take a look.

I think Logitech is the popular choice for gaming gears. I just despite their memory-hogging drivers. I use Microsoft's.

PS/2 keyb/mouse MIGHT leave the led lights on after you shut down the pc. USB won't. I know there's a jumper/setting in bios for waking up from keyb/mouse, but disabling it doesn't work for my family pc. They prefer USB.