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Having problems with stability for 6400X2 @ 3.5ghz

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May 2, 2008 7:31:29 AM

ok. long story short. i've been reading numerous guides as to oveclocking A64 cpu so I decide to give it a shot.

Basically, the 6400x2 BE cpu is 3200mhz stock with 16x multiplier.
I decide to run 219 fsb x 16 to acheive 3500. I was able to do so @ 1.488volts and a slight bump in the NB and HT. I decided to slow the ram down to 5-5-5-15 @ 2.075v but still keeping it at 800mhz.

Basically the computer boots fine and I am even able to play cod4 for a bit until it freezes. Basically there will be some screen glitch and than the game will close. I tried running orthos and was only able to run for 4minutes before theres an error. I cant seem to put my finger on why I cant get it stable.

In terms of cooling, I have a coolermaster 212 (which ranks very well). My CPU OC@3.5 will hit 60C on full load. It will hit 52C on full load at 3.2 (stock) (using Coretemp to monitor temp - dfi's temp monitor will report 3-5C lower). I have sufficient fans and ventilation is very good.

I have a very reputable OCer MOBO which is from DFI LP 790fx M2RS. Now it only came with a passive NB heatsink so I added a 40mm fan to it.

My ram are crucial ballistix 800mhz ddr2 which are very good according to reviews.

Any suggestions? I can take pictures of my bios settings since theres a million things in there (thanks to DFI great OC support).
May 2, 2008 7:34:55 AM

Btw- I have tried different fsb/multiplier combinations with the same result...error on orthos after a few minutes. Some ie. that I have tried:

14x250
13.5x259
13x269
etc.
With higher fsb, I decrease my ram to DDR667 to compensate and also the HT speed.

Could it be a bad chip?
May 2, 2008 8:14:46 AM

Well the term bad chip is relative. As far as i was aware 3.5ghz is very nearly, if not at the limit at which the x2 can run at. It might just be that you don't have a truely great chip that can run stable at those speeds.

However i would try slowing your ram down. When OCing my 4200 i found that it was never stable above 215mhz bus with ram @6400 mode. That was actualy about 798mhz on ram. 1 mhz higher on fsb and it took it over 800 and wasnt stable.

I have good ram, but no option to increase the dimm voltage so that is holding it back....just it might be the same for you.
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May 2, 2008 8:31:18 AM

hmm. i can possibly try that but i dont think its the ram since orthos will have an erorr on the CPU only test. I am tempted to feed the cpu a bit more power but i want to make sure there it will be the last resort. I noticed a lot people using 12x multiplier which will require very high fsb. I have yet to try that and may give it a shot when I get home. 12x multiplier means 291 FSB...eek.
May 2, 2008 8:53:01 AM

ok I came across a guy name Durch from overlcock.net i believe. he's written a great article on X2 overclocking an I am going to start from scratch follow that guideline. Hope fully I can get this running stable.
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May 2, 2008 10:33:53 AM

quanger said:
ok. long story short. i've been reading numerous guides as to oveclocking A64 cpu so I decide to give it a shot.

Basically, the 6400x2 BE cpu is 3200mhz stock with 16x multiplier.
I decide to run 219 fsb x 16 to acheive 3500. I was able to do so @ 1.488volts and a slight bump in the NB and HT. I decided to slow the ram down to 5-5-5-15 @ 2.075v but still keeping it at 800mhz.

Basically the computer boots fine and I am even able to play cod4 for a bit until it freezes. Basically there will be some screen glitch and than the game will close. I tried running orthos and was only able to run for 4minutes before theres an error. I cant seem to put my finger on why I cant get it stable.

In terms of cooling, I have a coolermaster 212 (which ranks very well). My CPU OC@3.5 will hit 60C on full load. It will hit 52C on full load at 3.2 (stock) (using Coretemp to monitor temp - dfi's temp monitor will report 3-5C lower). I have sufficient fans and ventilation is very good.

I have a very reputable OCer MOBO which is from DFI LP 790fx M2RS. Now it only came with a passive NB heatsink so I added a 40mm fan to it.

My ram are crucial ballistix 800mhz ddr2 which are very good according to reviews.

Any suggestions? I can take pictures of my bios settings since theres a million things in there (thanks to DFI great OC support).


For the risk involved for 300mhz its not worth it - the stock speed is already right near the max...
May 2, 2008 1:02:59 PM

apache_lives said:
For the risk involved for 300mhz its not worth it - the stock speed is already right near the max...


I didnt ask if it was worth the risk or not, I am just curious to know how far I can get to without being unstable. Doesnt mean I will or will not run it OC 24/7. Hvnt decided that yet.
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May 2, 2008 1:25:11 PM

The Hyper Transport buss AMD uses can be troublesome I have found if you raise your main buss to more than about 214~215.
Try lowering the multiplier on the HT (normal is 200x5=1000mhz HT speed, on my processor anyway, not sure what yours is, I think it is probably the same) and you should be able to go a lot further, if the CPU can handle it. I can crank my 4600 X2 up to around 240 on the main buss by dropping the HT buss multiplier to 4. However without some severe cooling, the processor just gets to darn hot to leave it there.
I have a DFI board as well, and yes it can be a nightmare to figure out everything in the endless BIOS settings. But once you do find the right combinations, holy cow you can really crank things up.
May 2, 2008 1:42:26 PM

*sniff sniff* I smell a burnt processor.
May 2, 2008 1:52:04 PM

As lameness wrote, this isn't a case of a bad CPU, but its just that you found a limit that isn't as high as you'd like. The 6400+ BE is a 90nm CPU, therefore it heats up and more than a 5000+ BE and usually won't take as high an overclock. Besides that, there never is any guarantee concerning how high you can overclock these chips. The "BE" only means that you can change the multiplier, but little else. It could be your chip hits a max speed that's lower than you'd like, such as 3400mhz instead of 3500mhz. You should also keep in mind that other than the knowledge of having a CPU clocked that high, it will do little or no good when it comes to gaming, much less the more mundane everyday tasks for which we use computers.

You can continue to try, of course, but you risk a burnt processor, as rodney wrote.
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May 2, 2008 1:53:43 PM

rodney_ws said:
*sniff sniff* I smell a burnt processor.


:lol:  Yeah, AMD coupled with a DFI board can do some pretty amazing overclocks if you understand and know how to use the mega-bios's these boards have. But you do have to have good cooling, or the ol' AMD CPU's will get pretty darn hot.
May 2, 2008 2:00:19 PM

Thants for the input jitpublisher. But I am a bit surprised at the lack of support for OC on the green team @ tomshardware. Anyways, I think I may have solved my problem with a bit of fiddling and tweaking.

As of now my current settings are:
Core: 3493mhz
Multi: 13x
Bus: 269Mhz
HT link: 1074.8Mhz
Dimm: 5-5-5-15-24 2T @ 436Mhz

Core temp: core1-60C, core2-54C
DFI's - Cpu temp: 54C
- System: 43C
- Chipset: 26C
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May 2, 2008 2:03:26 PM

sailer said:
As lameness wrote, this isn't a case of a bad CPU, but its just that you found a limit that isn't as high as you'd like. The 6400+ BE is a 90nm CPU, therefore it heats up and more than a 5000+ BE and usually won't take as high an overclock. Besides that, there never is any guarantee concerning how high you can overclock these chips. The "BE" only means that you can change the multiplier, but little else. It could be your chip hits a max speed that's lower than you'd like, such as 3400mhz instead of 3500mhz. You should also keep in mind that other than the knowledge of having a CPU clocked that high, it will do little or no good when it comes to gaming, much less the more mundane everyday tasks for which we use computers.

You can continue to try, of course, but you risk a burnt processor, as rodney wrote.



Well, I have to disagree a little here. You can get some great gains by overclocking AMD processors, as they are slower than their Intel counterparts. If you know how to use the BIOS settings, and have good cooling, you can get some great results. The HT buss I explained to the OP is the critical piece to overclocking AMD CPU's to their full potential, as it is pretty sensitive to overclocking.

But one thing you are right about, you have to monitor your temps closely. But what the heck, AMD CPU's are so cheap, they are almost like disposible. You fry one, just grab another! :D 
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May 2, 2008 2:07:04 PM

quanger said:
Thants for the input jitpublisher. But I am a bit surprised at the lack of support for OC on the green team @ tomshardware. Anyways, I think I may have solved my problem with a bit of fiddling and tweaking.

As of now my current settings are:
Core: 3493mhz
Multi: 13x
Bus: 269Mhz
HT link: 1074.8Mhz
Dimm: 5-5-5-15-24 2T @ 436Mhz

Core temp: core1-60C, core2-54C
DFI's - Cpu temp: 54C
- System: 43C
- Chipset: 26C


Nice, very nice.
Let us know how your stabilty is after running a few apps and games. Hope it works out solid for ya.
May 2, 2008 2:10:57 PM

Orthos locked up @ HT 1074.8 after 8minutes so now its down to 806mhz. I dont think this decrease affects performance very much. I am running orthos as I currently post. If it does lock again, I think I will try and give the NB some more juice.
May 2, 2008 3:07:05 PM

You shouldn't need to lower your HT down that much my old 6000+ ran at 3.5Ghz fine with HT of 1250 on an old MSI K9A Plat. Your voltage is very low compared to what i had to get mine to stay stable @ 3.5Ghz.

I only had to bump up NB 0.2 volts for that stable HT. CPU was another thing, check out the voltage on my old screenie. It took a lot of ine tuning to get it 24/7 stable withouts temps going through the roof i.e over 55 C

You shouldn't really need to raise your RAM timings, but you might aswell till you've reached 3.5Ghz stable.

May 2, 2008 3:30:23 PM

Wow closed_deal...thats nice! You ran that stable without ever going over 55 celsius? What kind of CPU cooler where you running?
May 2, 2008 3:35:47 PM

a vcore of 1.624? That is pretty darn high. I upped my set up to 1.536volts and im getting 63C\57C load. Dfi's meter shows 58C. The Orthos' CPU test fails but the stressCPU has been running for 20minutes.
May 2, 2008 3:47:40 PM

When doing Orthos does it fail the Blend, Small FFT's or Large FFT's?
May 2, 2008 3:51:31 PM

it fails them all. The only one that would pass is StressCPU. I am @ 1.552V right now.
May 2, 2008 3:56:52 PM

To be honest Orthos isn't everything. If you can play well BF2 for example for a few hours without it crashing I'd be happy with just that. How much vdroop do you have on that board btw? However as it's failing them all i'd still guess the voltage is too low.

When i got mine stable @ 1.624v i did try to get it to settle on summit lower, but no dice.
May 2, 2008 4:00:07 PM

how do you measure vdroop? well i want to deem my setup stable according to orthos testing.
I am still not convinced that it is the CPU tempurature that is preventing me from running stable since I had 120MM fan blowing directly at the cpu. The cpu temp maxs out at 63C which is high for some but should not be the reason for crashing.
May 2, 2008 4:05:18 PM

Temps shouldn't be the problem, voltage will be. If you lower you HT and RAM and just crank your CPU you'll understand the CPU needs more voltage to get any higher.

I measure Vdroop by opening CPU-Z when idling the CPU then running a CPU stressing prog, this lowers the vcore and the differnce between the two is your vdroop.

My MSI for example was set to 1.624v, but when it was on load it'll go down to almost 1.57 now thats an example of high vdroop i knew my board suffered so i compensated...
May 2, 2008 4:12:33 PM

I dont have the links but there are several articles discussing the lack of bottlenecking for single socket systems with HT links as low as 300Mhz if I remember right, so dont worry about turning your HT multi down. I have mine at 2x now, but im also running a 323mhz bus speed. :D 
May 2, 2008 4:13:42 PM

i think i will try and work on it a bit more. probable decrease the fsb and get it to stabilize on orthos first and work from there. Its harder to work backwards. I am not sure if i am that comfortable with giving 1.6+ volts to a cpu that require 1.376V stock.
May 2, 2008 4:17:07 PM

Hehe don't blame you fella. My 6000+ was to tide me over till Phenom came out. Unfortunately they sodded that up so i've turned to the dark side for a while till AMD sort themselves out.

However, 3.4Ghz is still a good overclock for the AMD chip. :D 

May 2, 2008 4:32:19 PM

Yea, I feel your pain. All the word when I was doing my upgrade was how easy it was to get these Opty 165s up to 3.0Ghz on air. Turns out its not so easy, lol. I lapped my AF64Pro, that got me past my wall at 2.8, got it doing a prime95 run at 2.9 now. Vcore at ~1.5 IF that goes well I may well lap the processor itself this weekend and see if I can push up to 3.0Ghz.
May 2, 2008 5:13:05 PM

I have a bunch of DFI/Optron systems in my profile that are running 50% OC with everything on stock volts.
One of the MB's had a cap dry up so I put together a fast X2 build with a M2N32-SLI Deluxe/6000+/XMS2 ram ($29 for 2GB onsale!).
On stock volts it would lock up just over 3.3Ghz...I think due to the Asus MB (they never do as well as a DFI).

Anyhow I just run it and the 8800GTS 512 at stock speeds and it is far fast enough to run everything.

I would ask around on the DFI forum....or even on the -old- DFI forum that Angery Games still admins.
To be honest a cheaper/slower stock CPU would have been better to OC (900Mhz-1Ghz beats 300Mhz on the faster CPU).
May 2, 2008 8:56:01 PM

ZOldDude said:
I have a bunch of DFI/Optron systems in my profile that are running 50% OC with everything on stock volts.
One of the MB's had a cap dry up so I put together a fast X2 build with a M2N32-SLI Deluxe/6000+/XMS2 ram ($29 for 2GB onsale!).
On stock volts it would lock up just over 3.3Ghz...I think due to the Asus MB (they never do as well as a DFI).

Anyhow I just run it and the 8800GTS 512 at stock speeds and it is far fast enough to run everything.

I would ask around on the DFI forum....or even on the -old- DFI forum that Angery Games still admins.
To be honest a cheaper/slower stock CPU would have been better to OC (900Mhz-1Ghz beats 300Mhz on the faster CPU).


who knows, maybe the 6400BE really is a regular 6000+ since they both OC the same.
May 2, 2008 9:28:27 PM

Well they should OC the same....just like the Optrons but a bit move stock voltage.
When I put the X2 together I got the CPU for only $111 after buying a combo at Fry's and then retuning the crappy MB for a refund.

Anyhow when I was putting the 7 DFI/Optron systems together I spent the extra money for the PC Power & Cooling Turbo's.
I ended up with the same OC's as others on the DFI forums (same MB/CPU/Ram/Cooler) but was able to do it on 100% stock volts for everything which also kept the temps down.

It is a shame you can't still find the older CM Staker TO-1 case with the Crossflow fankit.
At least the ones I have will outlast me and I suppose the fan moter could be rebuilt.
May 3, 2008 12:22:53 AM

I guess I could hold out the 6400x2 a while longer. Atleast until something that offers noticable improvements and still being am2+ compatible. My money is on 45nm phenom chips...hopefully it will be something that offers gaming improvements.
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May 3, 2008 2:31:12 PM

Well, I'll throw in my last 2 cents.
Your processor is pretty much pushing the limits of it's technology already.
To get much of an overclock out it is going to be tough, require some pretty hefty voltage's, and some really, really good cooling.
The buss speed you are trying is pretty high. Try a lower buss, like 230 , HT multiplier at 4, and raise your CPU multiplier back to stock. I saw a post up there where a guy says he got his HT link running an unbelievable 1250Mhz, that is an exception rather than the rule and that is a tremendously high speed for the HT link. I wonder really just how stable it was.
The new CPUs don't gain a lot by using a higher buss/lower multiplier combination like older CPU's did. You are better off to leave the multiplier at it's stock speed, and work with buss, HT link, and memory timings first. Start low and work your way up, that is for sure.

I think that you will also be dissappointed in the new Phenoms. For gaming, a fast dual core, and higher Mhz is still the power combination for gaming.
A lot of folks swear on the q6600 for instance as a gaming CPU.
But then, the ones who brag the loudest are overclocking them to 3Ghz and beyond.

And like you stated earlier, if someone posted "My q6600 will only overclock to 2.8Ghz" there would be a whole series of posts with hints and how-to's to get more speed out it.
May 3, 2008 4:08:27 PM

mostly i saw 3.4ghz being the limit for that chip.you have already lower the HT multiplier so mobo is not the limit.so i would say the chip reached its limit.
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May 4, 2008 12:59:26 PM

3.5Ghz out of 90nm tech is excellent ...

I hope they put some of this stuff in the A64 overclocking sticky at the top.

I havn't seen many threads with stuff on the last of the X2's being overclocked.

Thanks.

:) 

P.S. No Phenom guide for Overclocking yet ... yipsl and mathos ? prolly need to start one ... I think they have had some success.
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