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AMD Admits Phenom a Disappointment

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December 13, 2007 2:20:20 PM

Quote:
New York (NY) - At a conference with analysts held today, AMD acknowledged problems of bringing its quad-core processors to market and said that it the introduction of the chip has been a disappointment so far. The company described 2007 as a year %u201Cnot to get excited about%u201D, but believes to be able to return to profitability in 2008.

TGDaily


http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35262/118/

Hopefully Baron now can hush up, however much he wants to back his company and claim the product wasn't a failure, AMD just said so themselves.

Also, Here's a nice little tidbit for you Baron.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2007/12/13/amd_phenom_...

Now hush up with your clock for clock ranting, even a 2.6 phenom can't beat a 2.4 q6600...

Now, onto matters that matter and aren't Baron related. AMD has done a fantastic job with their other products, its obviously that only their processor department has been suffering. We all know how well of a bargain the 38x0 series is. We also know their new chipsets are a great product. Check this one out..

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQzMiwx...

I've been waiting for this one for a while. Crossfire with a integrated solution? Also, they plan for a 790 integrated chipset as well, which will be fantastic for 2/3/4 crossfire setups. Integrated while on the desktop/multimedia, and your crossfire card solution while your gaming. Should save a ton off the energy bill. It's sad to say AMD losing in the processor race, but I have to admit, in other areas, they are doing damn well. The 2900XT may have had a very rocky start, even after all the driver updates, it still took a lot of power. But with their 38x0 line ups prices, it's perfect performance for the money. Their chipsets are going strong, x2's are a great budget processor, but Phenom needs to be reworked. I don't see that happening though, It's not just a simple stepping that will resolve the issues, it's the architecture itself as it seems. But these chipset innovations they are making, are truly phenomenal, I really doubt intel or nvidia would have taken the initiative on something as bold as this. This is the one part of AMD that I've always stated was fantastic, even though they are the smaller company, they ALWAYS aim to innovate. A lot of people have always bashed AMD and claiming it isn't true, but guys, give credit where it's due. They end up pushing intel to compete, as a result we get better products for our money. If AMD does go downhill, it will be a sad day in the x86 world.
December 13, 2007 2:33:28 PM

While the Crossfire enabled IGP with discrete GPU is interesting, I would've liked the article to give us what the original FPS numbers were on just the IGP. They go on to say that they saw an increase of 50% and 33% in certain games, but from what? If the IGP was pushing out 4FPS, what's a 2FPS gain mean? Or even what the discrete GPU numbers were before enabling Crossfire.

Other than that, it does sound pretty interesting how they can use the IGP as a Crossfire link. I'm not sure about power savings, since the discrete card will be plugged in and pulling power, just not at load, I suppose.
December 13, 2007 2:52:42 PM

Indeed, but I've read in numerous places that a AMD IGP system is being developed to work solely on the desktop, when you're browsing the net, working on the desktop, watching multimedia, it'll use the integrated solution. On a game load, it will turn on the crossfired cards for heavy uses. It will be a bit difficult to implement such a feature, but you have to admit, it's quite a fantastic idea. This will save tons of money for CrossfireX adopters. Also, from what I've read (I'll try to scrounge up the sources if I can find them again), the video cards wouldn't be in idle during the integrated solution, they would be close to being shut off, to almost completely removing their power draw when working on your desktop.

This is one reason why I praise AMD, they come up with some fantastic ideas, I just wish they had more funding/staff/facilities, and some better leadership =P. Down with Ruiz!
Related resources
December 13, 2007 3:07:52 PM

Yes the lower clock speeds are due to their SOI on 65nm process, as well as their architecture giving issues. Plus, their architecture is overall not competitive, how can you state competitive for the price when a 2.6 phenom can't even beat a q6600? If you look at all those bencharks, there are only a mall handful of benchmarks the 2.6 could even pass the q6600. Meanwhile for the rest, the q6600 is on top.

The 2.3 is priced at the same segment as the q6600...the 2.4 is more, I don't even want to think about the 2.6...How the hell can you say it's competitive for it's price?..when it clearly is not...Even the x2 6400 can give it a run for its money.

AMD admitted it was a disappointment, I really don't understand why the AMD fanboi's can just accept it, even when AMD stated itself. Now I'm not bashing you at all, at least you stated your opinion without flaming, but how can you say that when all the facts are right there, a q6600 beats their 2.6 phenom hands down in almost every benchmarks except like 3-5, meanwhile the 2.3 phenom is priced around 280-300, the 2.4 I've seen for 315, and some people even said that it was cheaper then it normally goes for, meanwhile the 2.6?..probably priced a lot higher.

It seems AMD is just trying to get intel to raise their prices since the price cuts have taken a toll on amd's profitability, (hence, their new aim to return to profitability), they're attempting to raise the prices, but you can't overcharge for a inferior product that can't offer the performance to back it up, it's common sense. 2.3 Phenom?...can't touch the q6600, and yet it's still priced the same?...a 2.4, can't match it, yet it's priced higher?, a 2.6, which can only beat it in a small handful of benchmarks (don't even get me started on the gaming), yet the q6600 still comes out on top, and the phenom 2.6 will be priced higher?...AMD is desperate, and this is a horrible initiative, If you want to make money, you need to be competitive, match performance for the price, AMD has clearly ignored this, and pricing inferior products at a higher price range. LOOK at that power consumption!...the 2.6 is taking more than the extreme edition processor, This reminds me of Netburst, hot, inferior architecture, but atleast intel was able to clock it high enough to make up some sort of defecit, AMD can't even manage that with their 65 SOI process and architecture.

It's not something that can be missed, it's right their infront of your eyes..

Competitive for the price? I don't think so.
December 13, 2007 3:20:50 PM

Kamrooz said:
Indeed, but I've read in numerous places that a AMD IGP system is being developed to work solely on the desktop, when you're browsing the net, working on the desktop, watching multimedia, it'll use the integrated solution. On a game load, it will turn on the crossfired cards for heavy uses. It will be a bit difficult to implement such a feature, but you have to admit, it's quite a fantastic idea. This will save tons of money for CrossfireX adopters. Also, from what I've read (I'll try to scrounge up the sources if I can find them again), the video cards wouldn't be in idle during the integrated solution, they would be close to being shut off, to almost completely removing their power draw when working on your desktop.

This is one reason why I praise AMD, they come up with some fantastic ideas, I just wish they had more funding/staff/facilities, and some better leadership =P. Down with Ruiz!

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3178
December 13, 2007 3:43:08 PM

I admit AMD has some pretty ideas. I know they could merge both Intel and AMD : AMD could get the "ideas" and "advertising and press releases" since it's their strengths and Intel could design and manufacture so we all get better availability following the press release.
December 13, 2007 3:59:27 PM



Thanks man ^_^, I really can not wait for this feature. Hopefully it will be implemented in the 790 IGP based boards. But it might take more time than that to get it working perfectly. I'm planning to build 3 rigs in Feb/March (if the 9800 comes out. My main rig, a second lower power rig that will sit next to me for overnight downloading, and a HTPC media rig that will hook up to a HDTV. I was planning to go all 45nm penryn for the systems, I kinda wanted to get two 3850's for the HDTV rig just so I can have a second gaming rig on my HDTV, but with this solution, if it does come out in the 790 IGP boards, It gives me a reason to get a x2 6400 system and a crossfire setup. I just wish the Phenom didn't bomb so badly, the penryn's idle power is truly an amazing feet, if I was able to couple that with this unique IGP hybrid system, the power consumption would be so low at idle it would be ridiculous, and fantastic at the same time >_<...I'll just have to research and see which will benefit me the most.

hotdogmichigan said:
I admit AMD has some pretty ideas. I know they could merge both Intel and AMD : AMD could get the "ideas" and "advertising and press releases" since it's their strengths and Intel could design and manufacture so we all get better availability following the press release.


That may sound dandy, but it would be a nightmare on pricing. A monopoly over the x86 market would be very very badddd...I'm just hoping that AMD can pull in some profit for R&D before Nehalem is released, the way they are pricing now for inferior products, I doubt that will happen. Hopefully they can fix some issues and price their products better to be more competitive, if they can do that, they might make some money for AMD fans wanting a affordable quad core. Last thing I want to see is AMD go under (It won't happen though, they'll be merged, bought out, or privatized before that happens), even though they try to take each other out, each company needs the other. Intel got lazy, released in a slow manner and just gorged on profits, than AMD slapped them in check with Athlon. Now it's the same scenario, just reversed.
December 13, 2007 4:11:32 PM

Quote:
The only dissapointments with phenom I see are A) several months late to release B) released at lower clock speeds than anticipated C)fix for errata bug causes drop in performance.
Other than that I think its a competative product for the price.


I agree!

Except for the fact it's now over 20% slower than the Intel Quads Clock for Clock after the AMD Bios patch, the fact it has a slower clock rate to go along with trailing clock for clock, uses more power and generates more heat at similar clocks, and and that the 9600 is priced higher than the Q600, the Phenom is a great chip.

Really, that only leaves the name to be excited about.
But the name "Phenom" does Rock.
a b à CPUs
December 13, 2007 4:21:45 PM

AMD's perceived hubris and fanboy postulation aside, I'm impressed to see that AMD owned up to the Barcelona/Phenom shortcomings and are seemingly sincere in correcting past mistakes. Time will tell.

I agree with the opinion that Phenom is and will be a competitive product.

Quote:
zenmaster - Except for the fact (Phenom) now...uses more power and generates more heat

I agree with your overall statement but just have to laugh at the fact that it wasn't until AMD began comparing the X2's to P4's that heat and power consumption even became an issue. If you remember, Intel was all set to push BTX on the industry to deal with the heat generated by pre-core uArch (Netburst) products. It's important to keep some of these issues in proper perspective.
December 13, 2007 4:22:30 PM

hotdogmichigan said:
I admit AMD has some pretty ideas. I know they could merge both Intel and AMD : AMD could get the "ideas" and "advertising and press releases" since it's their strengths and Intel could design and manufacture so we all get better availability following the press release.


yeah, but if that would happen there wouldn't be two companies anymore trying to compete

there would be only one company who makes major hardware and then prices would rise and innovation would drop like in the software market <hint> Microsoft </hint>
December 13, 2007 4:24:32 PM

and that's exactly the reason i want AMD to survive

sorry to spam but fore some reason I'm not allowed to edit my own posts
December 13, 2007 4:46:15 PM

Wait, so AMD admits that all the FACTBOYS have been right!? Sweet!
December 13, 2007 5:01:22 PM

Quote from Article:

Quote:
Not surprisingly, the company%u2019s chief operating officer Dirk Meyer was upfront with analysts about the questions surrounding the slow rollout of the Barcelona quad-core processors. While he confirmed that the company will be shipping %u201Chundreds of thousands of processors%u201D this quarter, the %u201Cquad-core product%u201D has not been delivered according to plan: %u201CWe%u2019ll make good on our promise to deliver hundreds of thousands of quad core processors, but we%u2019re disappointed,%u201D Meyer said.

Meyer as well as executive vice president Mario Rivas told analysts that AMD is on its way to %u201Cfix quad-core%u201D. Volume shipments, typically referred to as %u201Cmillions of chips%u201D, are now scheduled to begin in the first quarter of this year. In contrast to the earlier promise that Barcelona would be announced when the product is actually available in volume, Rivas confirmed that this actually did not happen and that the company %u201Clet down%u201D its customers: %u201CThat must not continue,%u201D he said.


I believe this article is referring to the slow roll out of the new Quad core processor as a disappointment, rather than AMD claiming that their actual product is a disappointment.
December 13, 2007 5:02:44 PM

TechnologyCoordinator said:
Wait, so AMD admits that all the FACTBOYS have been right!? Sweet!


Indeed, I don't want to bash anyone at all. But I'm just glad to see AMD admit the faults. I'm curious what Baron has to say, but I know he'll just twist words and facts around left and right "CLOCK FOR CLOCK!" or all this other rubbish...The fact is, the architectural design of Barcelona is just not up to par...I'd like to see what Baron will do to get around this one as he always "attempts" to ignore facts, and fails to do so. DELETED That, is called fanboy'ism, and something to be avoided with great diligence.

Quote:
Interestingly, AMD said that its manufacturing capabilities are working well. In fact, Doug Grose, senior vice president of Manufacturing & Supply Chain Management at AMD, noted that "design is the issue with Barcelona, not manufacturing": Quad-core yields are actually higher than originally expected.


It's nice to see AMD admitting the troubles, but now that they've rolled out the honesty bandwagon, all that is left is to pick yourself up and keep looking forward. They still have other very valuable products, and I look forward to what they can offer down the road.

edit---

speedbird: Read deeper, or look ^ for my quote box.
December 13, 2007 5:25:42 PM

Quote:

I agree with your overall statement but just have to laugh at the fact that it wasn't until AMD began comparing the X2's to P4's that heat and power consumption even became an issue. If you remember, Intel was all set to push BTX on the industry to deal with the heat generated by pre-core uArch (Netburst) products. It's important to keep some of these issues in proper perspective.

Well, Heat is a major issue for me personally but it might not be for others.

I have 4 computers running 24x7 in my Home Office and the total running sometimes reachs 6 or 7.
Trust me, the amount of heat these devices can put out is quite a bit.
Then there is the noice associated with cooling.

So, If I can get a CPU that puts out less heat and generates less noise, I am quite happy.
At the same time, I need more and more processing power.

Who knows, by the end of Q1, the Phenom might be competive if they get the Cache bug fixed.
Then if they really get to 45nm in Q3 (I'm not holding my breath), they could have an even better product.

Unfortunately, Even AMD has admitted the Phenom rollout has pretty much been a flub so far.
But that does not mean in the future AMD can't come back.
[/quotemsg]
December 13, 2007 5:30:43 PM

I'm guessing Baron is in therapy now trying to forget what the AMD officials just said, expect him to return in 2 or 3 weeks with all his über AMD truthiness, word bending and fact ignoring ability in full form.

And remember Quad FX is faster than anything Intel has to offer Clock for Clock!!!!
December 13, 2007 5:54:09 PM

Quote:
I admit AMD has some pretty ideas. I know they could merge both Intel and AMD : AMD could get the "ideas" and "advertising and press releases" since it's their strengths and Intel could design and manufacture so we all get better availability following the press release.

Wouldn't work that smoothly. The reason AMD scores many design wins is that its designers make little consideration for what manufacturing can do. They put on paper what's theoretically the best, even if practically it's not so easy to make. Design and production are two different departments.

With Intel they're almost the same department. Every design idea is corroborated in the lab and discussed with production engineers, and the winning designs are based largely on how well they can be produced in volume, not how they perform at peak. They sacrifice creativity for productivity.
December 13, 2007 5:55:28 PM

Kamrooz said:
Quote:
New York (NY) - At a conference with analysts held today, AMD acknowledged problems of bringing its quad-core processors to market and said that it the introduction of the chip has been a disappointment so far. The company described 2007 as a year %u201Cnot to get excited about%u201D, but believes to be able to return to profitability in 2008.

TGDaily


http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35262/118/

Hopefully Baron now can hush up, however much he wants to back his company and claim the product wasn't a failure, AMD just said so themselves.

Also, Here's a nice little tidbit for you Baron.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2007/12/13/amd_phenom_...

Now hush up with your clock for clock ranting, even a 2.6 phenom can't beat a 2.4 q6600...

Now, onto matters that matter and aren't Baron related. AMD has done a fantastic job with their other products, its obviously that only their processor department has been suffering. We all know how well of a bargain the 38x0 series is. We also know their new chipsets are a great product. Check this one out..

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQzMiwx...

I've been waiting for this one for a while. Crossfire with a integrated solution? Also, they plan for a 790 integrated chipset as well, which will be fantastic for 2/3/4 crossfire setups. Integrated while on the desktop/multimedia, and your crossfire card solution while your gaming. Should save a ton off the energy bill. It's sad to say AMD losing in the processor race, but I have to admit, in other areas, they are doing damn well. The 2900XT may have had a very rocky start, even after all the driver updates, it still took a lot of power. But with their 38x0 line ups prices, it's perfect performance for the money. Their chipsets are going strong, x2's are a great budget processor, but Phenom needs to be reworked. I don't see that happening though, It's not just a simple stepping that will resolve the issues, it's the architecture itself as it seems. But these chipset innovations they are making, are truly phenomenal, I really doubt intel or nvidia would have taken the initiative on something as bold as this. This is the one part of AMD that I've always stated was fantastic, even though they are the smaller company, they ALWAYS aim to innovate. A lot of people have always bashed AMD and claiming it isn't true, but guys, give credit where it's due. They end up pushing intel to compete, as a result we get better products for our money. If AMD does go downhill, it will be a sad day in the x86 world.



Things liek this are why I do what I do. There was no ned to mention me. I don't mention you in my posts. Besides, once again you try to use semantics to make it sond like he said one thing when he said something else.

He said, what they did wrong was not get K10 out on time. Your title makes it sound like he said they were disappointed with the performance.

Get a life.
December 13, 2007 5:56:41 PM

Yes the lower clock speeds are due to their SOI on 65nm process, as well as their architecture giving issues. Plus, their architecture is overall not competitive, how can you state competitive for the price when a 2.6 phenom can't even beat a q6600? If you look at all those bencharks, there are only a mall handful of benchmarks the 2.6 could even pass the q6600. Meanwhile for the rest, the q6600 is on top.

So what's the weather like in Dresden? I only ask because you seem so certain of what the issues are.
December 13, 2007 6:12:10 PM

The reason I dropped your name, is exactly what you are doing now, ignoring facts and angering people...DELETED
Quote:
Interestingly, AMD said that its manufacturing capabilities are working well. In fact, Doug Grose, senior vice president of Manufacturing & Supply Chain Management at AMD, noted that "design is the issue with Barcelona, not manufacturing": Quad-core yields are actually higher than originally expected.


It's over, even AMD themselves have admitted their issues. That doesn't mean they are the worst company in the world, it just means they have fallen off track, and will attempt to get back on it. Yet you take this as the end of the world to think your beloved company failed, which they themselves admitted openly. DELETED
December 13, 2007 6:47:21 PM

These so called "problems" have nothing to do with the fact that IPC is barely better than the last generation. It's nice to be able to build a cheap quad, IF they can indeed be built cheaper than intel (which is questionable.) But not having a good increase in IPC is something they knew about all along and chose not to address. Their stock should be at $6.
December 13, 2007 6:51:01 PM

Kamrooz said:
The reason I dropped your name, is exactly what you are doing now, ignoring facts and angering people...DELETED
Quote:
Interestingly, AMD said that its manufacturing capabilities are working well. In fact, Doug Grose, senior vice president of Manufacturing & Supply Chain Management at AMD, noted that "design is the issue with Barcelona, not manufacturing": Quad-core yields are actually higher than originally expected.


It's over, even AMD themselves have admitted their issues. That doesn't mean they are the worst company in the world, it just means they have fallen off track, and will attempt to get back on it. Yet you take this as the end of the world to think your beloved company failed, which they themselves admitted openly. DELETED .


So explain to me what YOU think they were disappointed about and then tell me if that's what I said.
December 13, 2007 6:53:07 PM

shadowmaster625 said:
These so called "problems" have nothing to do with the fact that IPC is barely better than the last generation. It's nice to be able to build a cheap quad, IF they can indeed be built cheaper than intel (which is questionable.) But not having a good increase in IPC is something they knew about all along and chose not to address. Their stock should be at $6.


But they do have a hefty increase in IPC, especially in server. There is no place that a 2GHz quad doesn't beat a two 2.6GHz+ duals. For desktop, the increase is less but that's because K10 is a SERVER processor given a desktop chipset.
December 13, 2007 6:54:58 PM

To Kamrooz,

I'd tell you what I really think but I might get banned. Suffice it to say that I have yet to meet a person that I would listen to over me. Most people are barely.....never mind.
December 13, 2007 6:58:50 PM

Well wait for Round 2 (Q1 08). Round 1 (Q4 07) was pretty bad for AMD but B3 revision could be what the doctor ordered in Round 2. AMD can't rely on the 3800 series for profitability since it's going be a stiff fight with partner/rival Nvidia.
December 13, 2007 6:59:53 PM

BaronMatrix said:
Things liek this are why I do what I do. There was no ned to mention me. I don't mention you in my posts. Besides, once again you try to use semantics to make it sond like he said one thing when he said something else.

He said, what they did wrong was not get K10 out on time. Your title makes it sound like he said they were disappointed with the performance.

Get a life.


Baron: DELETED The management of your "preferred" company has been elusive, lied and misled mutliple times and then when they have to admit the truth they apoligize and say "we will change" or "it wont happen again" and "we are sorry we let you down but we will do better".

Then you and others with the same blind obsession defend them and blindly "drink the koolaid".

It's time to call a spade a spade and hold them accountable for their actions. They have admiited they made mistakes which is the good step. Making unfounded promises and stating that the only corrective action is we promise we will do better is just asking you to fill up the koolaid glass again. From what you have written yours is full to the brim.

If the management wanted to really show a commitment to making corrective actions they should act as leaders.

I have owned my own buisiness for years and when times were bad my salary was cut or eliminated as the first step in cost cutting to maintain the survival of the company. Granted we are talking about a corperate structure but regardless the princible is the same.

If the management at AMD really does believe what they are saying by admitting they made mistakes then they should be at the least suffer the losses that the investors who have supported them have.
December 13, 2007 7:01:15 PM

Kamrooz said:
Indeed, but I've read in numerous places that a AMD IGP system is being developed to work solely on the desktop, when you're browsing the net, working on the desktop, watching multimedia, it'll use the integrated solution. On a game load, it will turn on the crossfired cards for heavy uses. It will be a bit difficult to implement such a feature, but you have to admit, it's quite a fantastic idea. This will save tons of money for CrossfireX adopters. Also, from what I've read (I'll try to scrounge up the sources if I can find them again), the video cards wouldn't be in idle during the integrated solution, they would be close to being shut off, to almost completely removing their power draw when working on your desktop.

This is one reason why I praise AMD, they come up with some fantastic ideas, I just wish they had more funding/staff/facilities, and some better leadership =P. Down with Ruiz!


Maybe so, but the IGP has never been a workhorse for graphics, in the gaming sense, and even with their cheap discrete board, it would have been nice if they mentioned what their baseline FPS in each of the games they tested were, so the percentage gains could be translated. I mean, if the game was pushing 15FPS, and 50% increase was seen, that's still a low 23-24FPS. That's not worth doing the Crossfire enabling thing.

I would be intrested in seeing what kinds of performance increases using a mid-range card would get. Say, the HD3850 or 8800GT. If it pushes the FPS, with the IGP Crossfire enabled from 40FPS to 55FPS, that would be nice, but I doubt it would. Again, the article is fine, but saying "improvements up to 50% using low-end graphics cards" doesn't really sell it to me.
December 13, 2007 7:10:34 PM

intelamduser said:
Baron: DELETED The management of your "preferred" company has been elusive, lied and misled mutliple times and then when they have to admit the truth they apoligize and say "we will change" or "it wont happen again" and "we are sorry we let you down but we will do better".

Then you and others with the same blind obsession defend them and blindly "drink the koolaid".

It's time to call a spade a spade and hold them accountable for their actions. They have admiited they made mistakes which is the good step. Making unfounded promises and stating that the only corrective action is we promise we will do better is just asking you to fill up the koolaid glass again. From what you have written yours is full to the brim.

If the management wanted to really show a commitment to making corrective actions they should act as leaders.

I have owned my own buisiness for years and when times were bad my salary was cut or eliminated as the first step in cost cutting to maintain the survival of the company. Granted we are talking about a corperate structure but regardless the princible is the same.

If the management at AMD really does believe what they are saying by admitting they made mistakes then they should be at the least suffer the losses that the investors who have supported them have.




AMD and I AREN'T DATING or anything. I just like their products, even when others don't. The funny thing is that I had no reason to ever recommend a PD but I have done it many times when the person either had a mobo or wanted Intel.
But you guys aren't like that. And I hate KoolAid. I said K10 would PROBABLY be affected by the year's losses. It was. Getting bent out of shape won't change it.
But then I guess anything is better than Stockholm Syndrome. Obviously you are all deluded by your oppressor that we all know is waiting for any opportunity to get some arms and legs from the more gullible of us.

They admit a mistake, they suck. They don't, they lie.

Just admit that you have Stockholm's.
December 13, 2007 7:25:42 PM

BaronMatrix said:
gullible of us.




Finally an inkly of comprehension.
December 13, 2007 7:28:29 PM

ROFL. I love seeing Baron tap-dance around issues when even AMD backs us Factboys up directly.

Here's a way to promote competition: Don't buy crappy products.
December 13, 2007 7:29:39 PM

Unfortunately Baron, I always see the same thing from you, smart ass comments with no backing to prove any point what so ever. If you want me to "Explain" to you like I would a child, it would be impossible considering you ignore every fact anyone has ever laid in front of you, there really is no need. I've provided new benchmarks showing a 2.6 phenom as well as the 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4 models being inferior to the q6600. A official pubic announcement as well regarding AMD's disappointment with phenom.

Quote:
At a conference with analysts held today, AMD acknowledged problems of bringing its quad-core processors to market and said that it the introduction of the chip has been a disappointment so far.


Quote:
Interestingly, AMD said that its manufacturing capabilities are working well. In fact, Doug Grose, senior vice president of Manufacturing & Supply Chain Management at AMD, noted that "design is the issue with Barcelona, not manufacturing": Quad-core yields are actually higher than originally expected.


Introduction does not just mean manufacturing volume, it also stands for the consumers acceptance of their product which has been negative. They also stated that manufacturing isn't the issue which is clear to see. Two bad case scenarios, They couldn't deliver mass volumes due to the bugs and flaws in their design. Which AMD also stated, that "design is the issue with barcelona, not manufacturing". It's too big disappointments rolled into one.

Is it that hard to say they made a mistake?, and released a inferior product? Not everyone here is stating AMD is a horrible company because so, all companies make mistakes. Look at intel, prescott was horrendous, but this is much worst case scenario. It doesn't mean AMD is a bad company, it just means they made a mistake. There are lots of intel fanboys out there that would bash, but there are members here who look at the entire situation from a different angle, logic and reason. We don't want you to denounce purchasing from the company you love, It's just aggravating to see you defend them and try to force your opinions on others, meanwhile AMD fanboys recommend products which are inferior because of blind love. You can purchase whatever you want, but at least refrain from forcing your own opinion which lacks a logical outlook by your own will. That's what gets people angry, that's what gets everyone riled up. All it would take is "Yes, AMD made a mistake"...and that's all. They themselves have said it, but you refrain and defend them even now. When recommending a Phenom, all you gotta do is clearly state the current issues, then the recommendation is justified and the unknowing purchaser at least knows the current state of market.

I really don't understand why I need to explain it any further. Take a moment and sit down, read it thoroughly and think from a logical angle. After all, all the facts we lay out there, that are crystal clear, are only responded with 1-3 sentences of of nothing but useless rambling and smart assery, it ends up getting more people angry.


NMDante: It is indeed a interesting product. The 740 is only the low end solution. They are planning to release a 780 and 790 integrated solution as well. What sounds the most appealing, is the 790 IGP solution. They will also release a model for crossfirex based boards, this will allow you to nab 4 3870's if you wished, and run off integrated on the desktop scenario to save tremendous power. Then when the task is more daunting, the video cards would be brought up to power. Personally, I dislike IGP solutions, but even considering a 740 IGP board able to crossfire witha 2400 graphics card is quite nice for extremely low budget users. But personally, I think the power saving feature of these new boards is the most precious. No body wants to pay a electric bill for a crossfireX system, this will help make it more of a reality. After all, even at idle, they would drain a HECK of a lot of power without this type of platform.
December 13, 2007 7:30:14 PM

TechnologyCoordinator said:
ROFL. I love seeing Baron tap-dance around issues when even AMD backs us Factboys up directly.

Here's a way to promote competition: Don't buy crappy products.



You're truly deluded. They said didn't ship, NOT perf is not where we wanted.
December 13, 2007 7:32:32 PM


At a conference with analysts held today, AMD acknowledged problems of bringing its quad-core processors to market and said that it the introduction of the chip has been a disappointment so far.


So you are confusing the word INTRODUCTION with the word PERFORMANCE?

It's also amazing how none of you mentioned to YOMAMA that "yields are even higher than we expected."

he has been saying yields are crap. But in this case he won't beleive them cause it's a positive statement.
December 13, 2007 7:50:24 PM

Bro, stop ignoring the other segment, DELETED

Quote:
Interestingly, AMD said that its manufacturing capabilities are working well. In fact, Doug Grose, senior vice president of Manufacturing & Supply Chain Management at AMD, noted that "design is the issue with Barcelona, not manufacturing": Quad-core yields are actually higher than originally expected.


It's in the damn article, you have nothing to say about it, so you just ignore it. At least be man enough to comment.
December 13, 2007 8:04:28 PM

You know, I don't post often, but I feel the NEED to just make a general comment here:

Baron -

1) DELETED
2) DELETED honestly it has been FOREVER since I saw a POLITE post out of you.
3) What do you POSSIBLY EXPECT to accomplish by telling people they are stupid/dumb/wrong? Does it make your e-penny go from 5mm in size to 7mm?

Don't bother to reply either, I won't post again here. I've found better, more educated users on other forums that a willing to help people out and talk tech without acting like DELETED
December 13, 2007 8:04:55 PM

BaronMatrix said:

he has been saying yields are crap. But in this case he won't beleive them cause it's a positive statement.


at AMD, noted that "design is the issue with Barcelona, not manufacturing": Quad-core yields are actually higher than originally expected.


Baron, I will back you up on this one, they didn't say yields were crap, they said the product was crap.

So this means they are doing well at being able to make a lot of crap.

Are you by any chance related to the ex-communcation minister of Iraq?


December 13, 2007 8:07:46 PM

BaronMatrix said:

At a conference with analysts held today, AMD acknowledged problems of bringing its quad-core processors to market and said that it the introduction of the chip has been a disappointment so far.


So you are confusing the word INTRODUCTION with the word PERFORMANCE?

It's also amazing how none of you mentioned to YOMAMA that "yields are even higher than we expected."

he has been saying yields are crap. But in this case he won't beleive them cause it's a positive statement.


Why has the introduction been a disappointment? Could it be due to a bug or performance issues?

I'm glad yields are high though, they can sell a sub par product down low to the price/performance crowd and not have it effect their margins too much since they have tons of them!
December 13, 2007 8:15:14 PM

Two questions...

1) Do you still believe what AMD's mgmt says about profitability in Q3? How does ATI writedown and debt pmts play into that?



2) At what price do you buy long-term calls on AMD???
December 13, 2007 8:19:04 PM

Kamrooz said:
Bro, stop ignoring the other segment, DELETED

Quote:
Interestingly, AMD said that its manufacturing capabilities are working well. In fact, Doug Grose, senior vice president of Manufacturing & Supply Chain Management at AMD, noted that "design is the issue with Barcelona, not manufacturing": Quad-core yields are actually higher than originally expected.


It's in the damn article, you have nothing to say about it, so you just ignore it. At least be man enough to comment.



Well, I'm sure there are other forums. SEE YA.
December 13, 2007 8:19:32 PM

bkp_duke said:
You know, I don't post often, but I feel the NEED to just make a general comment here:

Baron -

1) DELETED
2) DELETED honestly it has been FOREVER since I saw a POLITE post out of you.
3) What do you POSSIBLY EXPECT to accomplish by telling people they are stupid/dumb/wrong? Does it make your e-penny go from 5mm in size to 7mm?

Don't bother to reply either, I won't post again here. I've found better, more educated users on other forums that a willing to help people out and talk tech without acting likeDELETED .





I know YOU are but what am I?
December 13, 2007 8:21:15 PM

ROFL....he's been busted. As long as he's clarified himself DELETED it's fine with me. ^_^
December 13, 2007 8:21:24 PM

intelamduser said:
at AMD, noted that "design is the issue with Barcelona, not manufacturing": Quad-core yields are actually higher than originally expected.


Baron, I will back you up on this one, they didn't say yields were crap, they said the product was crap.

So this means they are doing well at being able to make a lot of crap.

Are you by any chance related to the ex-communcation minister of Iraq?



If that's how you interpret that statement then you only want negative stories about AMD which would explain why people get so upset when I post positive ones.

With all that went into K10, I'm not surprised that there may be issues.
December 13, 2007 8:22:13 PM

cnumartyr said:
Why has the introduction been a disappointment? Could it be due to a bug or performance issues?

I'm glad yields are high though, they can sell a sub par product down low to the price/performance crowd and not have it effect their margins too much since they have tons of them!



I like how you said "sub-par." It was so..... so..... negative.
December 13, 2007 8:23:41 PM

Kamrooz said:
ROFL....he's been busted. As long as he's clarified himself as DELETED , it's fine with me. ^_^



I'm just glad I define my own reality. I seem to define yours too but oh well.
December 13, 2007 8:25:12 PM

BaronMatrix said:
I like how you said "sub-par." It was so..... so..... negative.


I'm glad you went back and corrected your "me and AMD aren't dating" sentence to be making an attempt at calling someone out on grammar/spelling.

That being said, perhaps answer the question. I would actually like to know what you consider the disappointment in the K10 launch considering AMD admits it was a disappointment. If you think there are none, just state that.
December 13, 2007 8:25:27 PM

Let the smart assery and triple posts commence once more! This is hillarious, Wait...Wait for it....here it comes again...
December 13, 2007 8:39:27 PM

December 13, 2007 8:42:52 PM

AMD has gained back small bit of my respect by admitting the Barcelona launch was a failure, but they still have a long way to go before I will trust them again.
December 13, 2007 8:45:04 PM

BaronMatrix said:

At a conference with analysts held today, AMD acknowledged problems of bringing its quad-core processors to market and said that it the introduction of the chip has been a disappointment so far.


So you are confusing the word INTRODUCTION with the word PERFORMANCE?

It's also amazing how none of you mentioned to YOMAMA that "yields are even higher than we expected."

he has been saying yields are crap. But in this case he won't beleive them cause it's a positive statement.


So you believe what AMD's PR tells you? :lol:  :lol:  In case you haven't noticed, they also claimed 40% performance increase. Since you already admitted the statement is a complete hoax, I guess you can understand what I meant by "AMD's PR".

From the scientific data I've seen, none of them supports AMD's statement of high yield. Massive die size; high defect density for quad core (0.5cm^2); these are just some of the signs we see from AMD that indicates their yields.

Of course, you can argue that I am only speculating, but at least I can back them up with scientific data. Can you do the same?
!