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OC potential for this config?

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May 3, 2008 3:27:21 AM

Please keep in mind this is mostly for graphics/video workstation and some gaming and will be air cooled...

Intel Xeon X3350 Yorkfield 2.66GHz 1333MHz
8 GB DDR3 1600MHz (7-7-7-18 G.skill)
ASUS P5E3 PREMIUM

Should I reasonably be able to get this above 3.0 GHz or higher and still be stable (best case senario)?

What if I use DDR3 1333? Any OC at all?

I am still trying to learn about the ratios..

Thanks!

More about : potential config

May 3, 2008 3:39:07 AM

Basicly ASUS allows you to run RAM in Linked/Unlinked mode (not so sure about performance penalties). In linked mode you can run 1600MHz FSB 1600MHz RAM (1:2 ratio Memory is dual channel DDR so basicly 4x 800MHz)
You could also run 1:1 but that would mean you underclock your memory alot (at half the rated frequency). Everything in between is also possible but timings might suffer or benefit from it.

400MHz FSB : 1333MHz RAM means you have to run at a ratio of FSB:RAM 3:5 (I'm not sure if your board supports that ratio, check the manual).

X3350 uses a multiplier of 8 (8x400MHz = 3.2GHz).
This should be attaind at close to stock voltage (VID) or maybe a few % bump. Stability should not be an issue but with overclocking you never know.

Just in case you haven't bought the hardware yet I recommend you go with DDR2 memory as it will save you alot of money. DDR3 offers no real benefit and costs an arm and a leg.
May 3, 2008 3:47:22 AM

Agreed with the above. DDR2 are dirt cheap, and the performance is more than enough. Perhaps a 2x2GB set will be a good choice.

OCing is different for every chip, so you can't be guaranteed 3GHz. However, you can pretty much expect at least 3GHz.
Related resources
May 3, 2008 3:50:07 AM

Andrius

Thanks for the tip. I have not purchased yet. What configuration would your recommend if I drop to DDR2? I have a budget of 2k-3k USD for entire system.

My main requirements are:

1. 8gb RAM

2. Quad core running at 3.0Ghz or above stable on air (45nm preferred) without going to extreme version.

3. Asus mobo with all features

4. Needs to last. My employer will purchase, but I will not be able to upgrade for 2-3 years.
May 3, 2008 4:21:53 AM

@pcbuilder
I'd stick close to what you were getting: prices are from newegg.com

CPU Xeon3350 or Q9450 (same specs) if you can get it cheaper.
(you could also get QX9650 stock 3.0GHz if you can fit it into your budget)

---
XIGMATEK S1283 COOLER ($40)
ASUS P5E ($225) or ASUS RAMPAGE FORMULA ($300)
8GB (4x 2GB Corsair DHX C4 ($194)
2x 640GB WD6400AAKS ($220)
NEC AD-7203S ($30)
Corsair TX 750W PSU ($120)
Cooler Master RC-690 CASE ($100)
Totals to $1000 without CPU/VGA

$350 for E3350 or
$1029 for QX9650 - 3.0GHz stock (easy overclock to 4GHz).
+ ($250) a good 8800GTS Graphics card for upper limit estimate.
---
$2300 system.

Monitor keyboard and mouse for $700. Or whatever you can justify.

Good luck with your build.
EDIT : If you need links for the hardware let me now.
May 3, 2008 6:11:12 PM

Andrius

I had actually put a config together at newegg that was really similar. Please review these parts and let me know what you think.
___________________

Antec P182 ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ($170)

ASUS RAMPAGE FORMULA Motherboard ($300)

Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650 Yorkfield 3.0GHz 12MB L2 Quad ($1030)
----OR----
Intel Xeon X3360 Yorkfield 2.83GHz 12MB L2 Quad ($564)

Do you know if the Xeons are unlocked multiplier like the Extremes?

If I go with either CPU will the 1066 ram make a difference with one more than the other?

2 x CORSAIR DOMINATOR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 ($366)

-----Or I can get 2x 4GB G.skill 1066 for $280 (what do you think? both are 5-5-5-15)

EVGA 512-P3-N841-AR GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB ($260)

ZALMAN ZM750-HP ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V 750W Modular ($190)

Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10000 RPM SATA ($140)

2 x Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s ($180)

SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S203N ($34)

Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 64-bit ($190)

ZALMAN CNPS 9700 NT 110mm 2 Ball Ultra Quiet CPU Cooler ($66)
-----do you know of better/quieter one available at newegg?

_________________________________

Is there any benefit for going with 1066 RAM? Will it help my OC?

Also, I already have a DAS keyboard, mouse, and 2 24" Samsung 244T LCDs at 1920x1200

I am also trying to keep every thing as quiet as I can as well...

May 3, 2008 9:18:27 PM

pcbuildr said:
Andrius
I had actually put a config together at newegg that was really similar. Please review these parts and let me know what you think.
Indeed this is a great build.

My comments:
Antec P182 ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ($170)
A very good, very quiet case, maybe a bit expensive.

ASUS RAMPAGE FORMULA Motherboard ($300)
You could save $75 and take P5E (if you need to) the difference (in expected overclocks) is minimal.

Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650 Yorkfield 3.0GHz 12MB L2 Quad ($1030)
If you can afford this there is no better option.
Overclocking becomes as easy as changing 1 BIOS setting (4GHz on air is quite easy).

----OR----
Intel Xeon X3360 Yorkfield 2.83GHz 12MB L2 Quad ($564)
Do you know if the Xeons are unlocked multiplier like the Extremes?
These Xeon chips are not unlocked (8.5x is the maximum here). This is the equivalant of a Q9550.

If I go with either CPU will the 1066 ram make a difference with one more than the other?
Is there any benefit for going with 1066 RAM? Will it help my OC?
With a QX9650 you can pick cheaper 800MHz RAM.
If you want very high 4.0GHz+ overclocks on the Xeon this RAM might be worth it.
I'd rather have the QX9650 for this build.

2 x CORSAIR DOMINATOR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 ($366)
-----Or I can get 2x 4GB G.skill 1066 for $280 (what do you think? both are 5-5-5-15)
The difference in RAM performance is minimal to none.
Corsair DDR2 800MHz costs under $200 for 8GB, I'd stick with that.

EVGA 512-P3-N841-AR GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB ($260)
A very good choice. You can pick a cheaper model/brand if you find one but it should be a 8800GTS.

ZALMAN ZM750-HP ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V 750W Modular ($190)
This is quite an expensive pick.
I'd stick with my Corsair TX 750W for $120 recommendation as it's $70 cheaper and offers top quality (unmatched value).

Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10000 RPM SATA ($140)
2 x Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s ($180)
SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S203N ($34)
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 64-bit ($190)
No real comment here. I'd go with 2xWD6400AAKS as they are a bit faster, but they cost $40 more.

ZALMAN CNPS 9700 NT 110mm 2 Ball Ultra Quiet CPU Cooler ($66)
-----do you know of better/quieter one available at newegg?
This cooler is way overpriced for the performance it offers.
XIGMATEK S1283 is the current king of the hill. If you want silent but excellent go for
Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme + Scythe S-FLEX SFF21F 120mm fan (a classic excellent cooler)

pcbuildr said:

Also, I already have a DAS keyboard, mouse, and 2 24" Samsung 244T LCDs at 1920x1200
I am also trying to keep every thing as quiet as I can as well...
With the Antec P182 that won't be hard.
The Raptor drive might be a bit loud. Maybe 3x WD6400AAKS would be a better choice but I don't think you'll have to worry about that.
I think you're good to go with these selections.
May 3, 2008 9:39:45 PM

Andrius, you rock man! Thanks for the propter review. I really appreciate your help.

Regarding the Corsair TX750, I see that it only has a single 12v rail - if I decide to go SLI will I need more than that?

Also, for the drives, I wanted to have a nice fast boot and a raid 1 mirror for the data. Are you saying go with 3 in a RAID 5 with 2 partitions? Or to just go with 2 mirrored drives total as RAID 1?

If I can afford the raptor is their any reason not to go with it? I would think the slight noise increase would be worth the performance.

I wish the new velociraptor would come out.. I would definitely get one of those.



May 3, 2008 10:00:26 PM

I don't think you need to worry about PSU rails that much. The Corsair TX series got excellent reviews (EDIT: links : http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/19/corsair_tx7... http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQwMywsLGhlbnR... ). SLI won't work on this board (it supports CrossFire for AMD/ATI cards) I also think it's better to buy one high performance card every 18-24 months instead of going SLI. But I don't game much so that's a bad area to get advice from me. ;) 

SLI boards in a pro-workstation are a big NO NO today. Data corruption issues are unresolved for now on NVIDIA 7x0i chipsets.

3 HardDiskDrives:
I meant use a WD6400AAKS instead of a Raptor for your boot drive and keep the other 2 in mirror RAID0. For RAID5 to offer performance advantages you need a hardware XOR engine. Onboard RAID5 is software based (IE the CPU does all the work). The WD6400AAKS will be alot quieter than a Raptor (don't get me wrong I have 2 Raptors and they rock for performance but they can get loud while seeking). If you are considering a Raptor drive you'll likely love it (I was never sorry I got them).

The velociraptor is just around the corner I think. Just tell you're employer to get one when it comes out (or you can get one yourself and have your game system on it.
a b K Overclocking
May 3, 2008 10:24:42 PM

pcbuildr said:
Andrius

I had actually put a config together at newegg that was really similar. Please review these parts and let me know what you think.
___________________

Antec P182 ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ($170)

ASUS RAMPAGE FORMULA Motherboard ($300)

Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650 Yorkfield 3.0GHz 12MB L2 Quad ($1030)
----OR----
Intel Xeon X3360 Yorkfield 2.83GHz 12MB L2 Quad ($564)

Do you know if the Xeons are unlocked multiplier like the Extremes? No, only the Extream CPUs have unlocked multi, how ever allC2D based chips ley you decrease the multiplier

If I go with either CPU will the 1066 ram make a difference with one more than the other?

2 x CORSAIR DOMINATOR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 ($366)

-----Or I can get 2x 4GB G.skill 1066 for $280 (what do you think? both are 5-5-5-15)

EVGA 512-P3-N841-AR GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB ($260)

ZALMAN ZM750-HP ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V 750W Modular ($190)

Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10000 RPM SATA ($140)

2 x Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s ($180)

SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S203N ($34)

Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 64-bit ($190)

ZALMAN CNPS 9700 NT 110mm 2 Ball Ultra Quiet CPU Cooler ($66)
-----do you know of better/quieter one available at newegg?

_________________________________

Is there any benefit for going with 1066 RAM? Will it help my OC?

Also, I already have a DAS keyboard, mouse, and 2 24" Samsung 244T LCDs at 1920x1200

I am also trying to keep every thing as quiet as I can as well...


If you are planing on getting RAM natively higher than DDR2 800 be aware that there will be compatibility issues. Many users reports and my personal testing has shown that there is a very good chance you will run in to issues with RAM higher than DDR2 800, such as DDR2 1066. I recommend you get quality DDR2 800 RAM and run them at 1:1 ratio or overclock the RAM. This issue dose not apply to DDR2 800 RAM that has been overclocked.

Recommended CPU is in bold. Along with answer about unlocked multi. Go with a Corsair TX750. Trust me that PSU will handle 8800GTX SLI.

a b K Overclocking
May 3, 2008 10:25:46 PM

Andrius said:
I don't think you need to worry about PSU rails that much. The Corsair TX series got excellent reviews (EDIT: links : http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/02/19/corsair_tx7... http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQwMywsLGhlbnR... ). SLI won't work on this board (it supports CrossFire for AMD/ATI cards) I also think it's better to buy one high performance card every 18-24 months instead of going SLI. But I don't game much so that's a bad area to get advice from me. ;) 

SLI boards in a pro-workstation are a big NO NO today. Data corruption issues are unresolved for now on NVIDIA 7x0i chipsets.

3 HardDiskDrives:
I meant use a WD6400AAKS instead of a Raptor for your boot drive and keep the other 2 in mirror RAID0. For RAID5 to offer performance advantages you need a hardware XOR engine. Onboard RAID5 is software based (IE the CPU does all the work). The WD6400AAKS will be alot quieter than a Raptor (don't get me wrong I have 2 Raptors and they rock for performance but they can get loud while seeking). If you are considering a Raptor drive you'll likely love it (I was never sorry I got them).

The velociraptor is just around the corner I think. Just tell you're employer to get one when it comes out (or you can get one yourself and have your game system on it.

Agreed.
May 4, 2008 12:06:35 AM

Shadow703793 said:
If you are planing on getting RAM natively higher than DDR2 800 be aware that there will be compatibility issues. Many users reports and my personal testing has shown that there is a very good chance you will run in to issues with RAM higher than DDR2 800, such as DDR2 1066. I recommend you get quality DDR2 800 RAM and run them at 1:1 ratio or overclock the RAM. This issue dose not apply to DDR2 800 RAM that has been overclocked.

Recommended CPU is in bold. Along with answer about unlocked multi. Go with a Corsair TX750. Trust me that PSU will handle 8800GTX SLI.
I recommended DDR2 800MHz RAM and QX9650(it offers less value, but you get 4GHz at 400MHz FSB) for exactlly the same reasons.
For graphics work the system will benefit greatly from the higher clocks and RAM won't be an issue.
May 4, 2008 12:30:11 AM

So, just to clarify, I can use the CORSAIR XMS2 DHX 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 4-4-4-12 (2 sets = 8gb) and should have no worries getting to 4Ghz on air with the QX9650?

Shadow, with the 2.5Ghz cpu, I will probably be limited to an stable oc of 3.2 or so, don't you think?

Also, what kind of compatibility issues? There are tons of comments on the G.skill memory page on Newegg where users are using the exact same thing.

The product page for the board notes DDR2 1200/1066/800 as the memory standard.... will I not be able to get a 1:1 ratio with 1066? - sorry, I am still not 100% understanding how the ratios work.

I want to learn and for it to be correct as this PC will need to last me for 2-3 years without any upgrades.

Andrius, I am thinking to wait for a couple weeks and see if the velociraptor hits. I have a raptor in my current pc and it rocks, so will likely stick with it.

Thanks guys for all your help. I am sure my questions seem noobish. I have slipped behind a bit and it has been a while since I built a new one. I am typing this on a P4 3.2Ghz running on a Asus P4C800E-deluxe!

My current work computer is a Pentium D 860 - man that thing is LOUD and way too HOT (runs at 165 all day long) . I cannot wait to get this other PC going.



May 4, 2008 12:49:17 AM

ASUS motherboards allow you to run RAM unlinked to the FSB (not sure about other brands).

The RAMPAGE Formula runs FSB 400MHz at stock settings. In linked mode FSB:RAM are linked by a RATIO.
FSB:RAM = 400 : 400 (800MHz DDR, DUAL CHANNEL) means a RATIO of 1:2
FSB:RAM = 400 : 533 (1066MHz DDR, DUAL CHANNEL) means a RATIO of 3:8

With unlinked mode you just type in the values.
FSB = 400 (or 1600 if it's "quadpumped").
RAM = 400 (or 800 for DDR).

Corsair kits work with RAMPAGE no fuss (a friend has the dominator kits but he's running a Q9300 @ 466MHz). He went cheap on the processor but all out on the RAM. :pfff: 
May 4, 2008 2:48:39 AM

So he is running dominator 800 or 1066?

I would prefer to not have 4 extra little fans with the dominator...
a b K Overclocking
May 4, 2008 8:24:39 PM

Andrius said:
ASUS motherboards allow you to run RAM unlinked to the FSB (not sure about other brands).

The RAMPAGE Formula runs FSB 400MHz at stock settings. In linked mode FSB:RAM are linked by a RATIO.
FSB:RAM = 400 : 400 (800MHz DDR, DUAL CHANNEL) means a RATIO of 1:2
FSB:RAM = 400 : 533 (1066MHz DDR, DUAL CHANNEL) means a RATIO of 3:8

With unlinked mode you just type in the values.
FSB = 400 (or 1600 if it's "quadpumped").
RAM = 400 (or 800 for DDR).

Corsair kits work with RAMPAGE no fuss (a friend has the dominator kits but he's running a Q9300 @ 466MHz). He went cheap on the processor but all out on the RAM. :pfff: 

Agreed. The Gigabyte boards do not run in unlinked mode (may be except a few).
May 4, 2008 11:12:49 PM

Will the FSB of the CPU matter? I think the QX is a 1600 and the Xeon is a 1333. What if I go for 1200mhz ram? Wouldn't that bring me up to 600Mhz RAM freq? Does it give any real world improvement to use a unlinked if it gives slightly higher speed or am I just spinning my wheels?

FSB:RAM = 400 : 400 (800MHz DDR, DUAL CHANNEL) means a RATIO of 1:2
Isn't this 1:1?
a b K Overclocking
May 4, 2008 11:43:13 PM

Yes.it is 1:1 for FSB 1600 vs DDR2 800.
May 4, 2008 11:59:49 PM

If I am unable to go with the QX at $1000+ and have to go with the 2.5 Ghz Yorkfield or Xeon at 1333 FSB, would I be better off with the 1066 or 1200 RAM?
May 5, 2008 1:10:21 AM

Actually, I was wrong, the QX9650 3.0Ghz is 1333Mhz FSB - Can I still use DDR2 800 RAM to get a 1:1 Ratio?

Say I was to go with the Q6700 2.66Ghz which is 1066Mhz FSB, do I need to get DDR2 1066 to get 1:1?

Please help me get over this last hurdle!
May 5, 2008 5:02:37 PM

The QX9650 is multiplier unlocked so you can use just about any RAM to get to 4.0GHz+ (12x333, 11x366, 10x400). Even with cheap RAM it's possible.

With the XEON (8 or 8.5x multiplier) you could still run in unlinked mode but you're be limited to around 3.2-3.6GHz. Quality 800MHz RAM overclocks to around 850-900MHz FSB without great issues (reduced timings).

1066MHz RAM would allow you to get above 450MHz FSB but you'd hit the FSB limit at around 475MHz (according to reviews) so you'd be able to hit close to 4.0GHz (but it'd be alot harder).

I would advise anyone with a budget like yours to go with QX9650 as it would be easier. With overclocking there are no guarantees. You might just get a bum QX9650/Xeon chip and it's gonna be stuck at 3.2-3.33GHz.
The QX9650 just makes this a bit more unlikely.

As for the 1:1 ratio. There is no real world difference in performance for a 1:1 ratio vs a 1:1.2 ( 333:400 RAM or 800 DDR). ASUS's Unlinked mode is like a magic wand for overclocking "beginners" (one less thing to worry about).
Q6700 runs 266MHz FSB (FSB:RAM = 1:1.5 = 266:400 (or 1:3 for 800 DDR).

There is alot of confusion around these ratios because processor FSB figures are "QuadPumped" (meaning 4x base FSB frequency) and memory is Dual Channel Double Data Rate (also meaning 4x base memory frequency). So a 1066MHz FSB chip would require 533MHz DDR2 memory for 1:1. A 1333MHz FSB chip requires 667MHz DDR2 memory for 1:1 and a 1600MHz FSB chip requires 800MHz DDR2.
A Q6700 overclocked to 400MHz FSB would also hit 4.0GHz (and likely melt during the summer). I hope this helps you a bit.
May 5, 2008 6:41:36 PM

ding ding ding - I think it finally clicked :)  Man, it has been a while since I was dabbling in new hardware and I was totally feeling noobish.

Here is my final config: (unless the velociraptor or a better, cheaper video card hits in the next week or so I am all set)

ASUS RAMPAGE FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard

Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650 Yorkfield 3.0GHz LGA 775 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569QX9650

2 x CORSAIR XMS2 DHX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-6400C4DHX

EVGA 512-P3-N845-AR GeForce 8800GTS (G92) KO 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card

XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler

Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10000 RPM SATA 1.5Gb/s Hard Drive

2 x Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S203N

Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower

CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX ATX12V / EPS12V 750W Power Supply

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound

4 x ZALMAN ZM - F3 120mm Case Fan

Windows Vista 64

$2764

What do you think? Any other way I can get a bit more performance out of this build?
May 5, 2008 6:43:57 PM

Whats the price you are paying on the two hard drives that are 500 GB sata?

--Lupi!
May 5, 2008 6:48:37 PM

$89 each
May 5, 2008 7:32:33 PM

Basicly the Velociraptor and HD 4870 are your best bets to increase performance.

Aside from that 2x Raptor in RAID0 for system drive would improve performance a bit (not worth it IMO).
The WD5000AAKS are a good choice. If you want faster drives for that part go for 2x WD6400AAKS ($110 each).

You can skip Arctic Silver and take the stock paste IMO and I don't really care for the ZALMAN F3 case fans. Scythe SFF21E(inaudiable) or SFF21F(quite a bit louder) would be (was) my pick.

Everything is just about as good as it gets (without spending 2x-3x more money).

Good luck.
May 5, 2008 8:00:36 PM

hmm.... I found the Zalman F3 fans from the Silent computing website and those were the only one's mentioned there that were available at newegg(no dice on pabst or nexus). I will look into the Scythe ones.
May 5, 2008 8:38:59 PM

pcbuildr said:
hmm.... I found the Zalman F3 fans from the Silent computing website and those were the only one's mentioned there that were available at newegg(no dice on pabst or nexus). I will look into the Scythe ones.
By all means if they come recommended from a silent PC website, they should be good. I don't know them, but from my past experience ZALMAN fans have a rather short lifespan of silence (6-9 months).
!