Wow--New Black Edition Phenom Next Week-- Comments?

This could be interesting. See the fudzilla article.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4741&Itemid=35

Could be good for AMD if it offers the increase in performance that Phenom has so far lacked. Of course, if it turns out to be less than expected, another disappointment would be really bad right now...
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More about black edition phenom week comments
  1. Excellent a 2.3 that can overclock to.... 2.5!
  2. husky mctarflash said:
    This could be interesting. See the fudzilla article.

    http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4741&Itemid=35

    Could be good for AMD if it offers the increase in performance that Phenom has so far lacked. Of course, if it turns out to be less than expected, another disappointment would be really bad right now...



    It should be great since nearly every sample I saw was able to get to 3GHz by turning up the multiplier. And with AMD OverDrive, great may be an understatement.
  3. BaronMatrix said:
    It should be great since nearly every sample I saw was able to get to 3GHz by turning up the multiplier. And with AMD OverDrive, great may be an understatement.


    Every sample that you saw? AMD invited you into the yet to occur unveiling?
  4. The biggest issue facing this release is the fact it is a B2 revision and the very limited availiblity right now. Like Dirk Meyer had said, there is gonna be a delay on the "good" Phenom chips.
  5. fraud comes to mind. Not literally though, the black edition and extreme editions are known for unlocked multipliers to favor overclockers, but to sell a black edition Phenom is down right unacceptable atm. Later on, if some of the architectural issues are fixed and they can get phenom to clock higher, I wouldn't mind it, but right now, unacceptable.

    Baron...::sighs::..nvm, you're not worthy my time.
  6. No, it's not Fraud.

    The "Black Edition" for the X2 were High End Enthusiast Chips.

    The "Black Edition" for the Phenom is for those who want to join in mourning for AMD.

    Sad as it is, even if you could OC the chip to 3.0Ghz, it would still be slower than X2 chips for nearly all operations since with the bug fix in place its slower Clock for Clock than the X2s.

    Let's pray the B3 chips from AMD actually work when they are released in Q1.
  7. Kamrooz said:
    fraud comes to mind. Not literally though, the black edition and extreme editions are known for unlocked multipliers to favor overclockers, but to sell a black edition Phenom is down right unacceptable atm. Later on, if some of the architectural issues are fixed and they can get phenom to clock higher, I wouldn't mind it, but right now, unacceptable.

    Baron...::sighs::..nvm, you're not worthy my time.


    I'm sorry, but that is a completely idiotic statement. You are assuming that a BE Phenom would be a release of the current stepping... I'm not saying it will OR won't be, but if AMD hasn't even told its investors (although I don't believe for a second that is true, if I'd dropped quarter of a bill or whatever in a co. I'd wanna know what was going on there!) then why the hell is it going to tell the press about it and the stepping etc.?
    Until there are some hard-facts on it, it is all speculation!
    I'd love one though! :)
  8. If its true it wouldn't have to be a b2 and could be the b3 as no multiplier and no heatsing & fan should reduce the time to market. I would guess if this was the case we would be looking at a small volume and at a some what higher price. I would guess this CPU will be 2.6GHz stock as that was to be the FX to release.
  9. Like I stated, Fraud comes to mind, "Not literally". I'm not saying it's literally fraud. It's not a High end enthusiast chip either, as they have budget based black editions, it's role is overclockability thanks to the unlocked multiplier. I laugh at the inexperienced enthusiasts who go ape **** (excuse my language) over the extreme edition intel procs, and throw a massive amount of cash for something they wont utilize. If you don't overclock, there really is no justification in purchasing these unlocked chips if you don't plan to OC. I heavily doubt that a qx6700's price is justified at 899.99 clocked at 2.66. when a q6600 clocked at 2.4 costs 280. Would you pay the extra 600 for a measely 266 mhz?..obviously no....

    It's just the fact that these Phenom black editions won't be able to OC. The unlocked multiplier chips only have one real benefit, better overclocking ability. When a Phenom can't clock well at all due to the architecture, it kind of puts a bad taste in your mouth to sell a black edition.

    Lukebird: I'm speaking in regards to the current issue, personally, I don't think the b3 stepping is going to help AMD that much. It will hopefully decrease their power consumption and give the barcelona chips a bit more ability to clock higher. But if it stays the same in terms of the architectural faults, it won't be worth it. Only time will tell....But just so you know...

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20071128120717_AMD_Readies_Black_Edition_Phenom_Processor_Phenom_FX_May_Face_Further_Delay.html

    They were planning to release it with the current stepping. Even regardless of the eratta issue, phenoms architecture currently can't clock high enough to make up for it's issues in raw speed. If there was no eratta, I do not doubt at all that we would of seen a phenom black edition this month....Whch frankly, would be a joke, for now.
  10. Ok... no one hold your breath for this. Just wait and see if it really does come out and if it really is any good. It makes no sense to talk about how great or bad it will be until we can buy one ourselves.
  11. Ok.........but will you actually be able to get your hands on one.......
  12. I'm pretty sure you can identify, re-design/fix, test, and go from a B2 to B3 revision in a couple of weeks.
  13. I don't see the point in a Black Edition Phenom this early. I expected a FX series much sooner than a Black Edition series product. The whole reason behind the K8 Black Edition processors was because of how favorable they were in over-clocking. The Phenom product line is not recognized as being any sort of over-clocker, much less having the over-clockers label stickere don to it.

    I personally think they need to focus on fixing bugs, getting better yields, and increasing volume before they decide to tackle an enthusiast style of product. This helps to reassure my assessment on AMD losing it's core values; stop targeting high-end enthusiast, start targeting mid-range, low-end users.

    Such a disappointment...:(
  14. justinmcg67 said:
    I don't see the point in a Black Edition Phenom this early. I expected a FX series much sooner than a Black Edition series product. The whole reason behind the K8 Black Edition processors was because of how favorable they were in over-clocking. The Phenom product line is not recognized as being any sort of over-clocker, much less having the over-clockers label stickere don to it.

    I personally think they need to focus on fixing bugs, getting better yields, and increasing volume before they decide to tackle an enthusiast style of product. This helps to reassure my assessment on AMD losing it's core values; stop targeting high-end enthusiast, start targeting mid-range, low-end users.

    Such a disappointment...:(


    Indeed, I agree whole heartedly. What busts my chops the most is the fact that Ruiz is stil the CEO, I was expecting a resignation with Dirk stepping in. But we might not see that till late 2008 from what it seems. He also ends up getting a raise?....

    When AMD aims to innovate, they always deliver, look at their upcoming 740/780/790 IGP chipsets. Hybrid crossfire, as well as the ability to toggle between the two (IGP for desktop/media, video card for intense uses), being able to cut the power to the video card and switch to an IGP based solution is a fantastic idea. It will save us money on our utilities bill. Also, with crossfire and crossfirex becoming a reality, it will end up saving you a very large sum of money.

    AMD really needs to get back to the core values that got them so far with Athlon/X2..Stop trying to follow Intel's flute with the octo core so soon when you are having large troubles with a quad design. Take a breather, fix your processors issues, and compete at what got you this far, creative innovations. Not to say that a Native quad isn't innovative, but they forced them selves to take something that intel would touch till 45nm, focused so much on the native quad aspect and not the architectural performance itself. Let's just hope they get back on track, but who knows when that will happen.
  15. Kamrooz said:
    Indeed, I agree whole heartedly. What busts my chops the most is the fact that Ruiz is stil the CEO, I was expecting a resignation with Dirk stepping in. But we might not see that till late 2008 from what it seems. He also ends up getting a raise?....

    When AMD aims to innovate, they always deliver, look at their upcoming 740/780/790 IGP chipsets. Hybrid crossfire, as well as the ability to toggle between the two (IGP for desktop/media, video card for intense uses), being able to cut the power to the video card and switch to an IGP based solution is a fantastic idea. It will save us money on our utilities bill. Also, with crossfire and crossfirex becoming a reality, it will end up saving you a very large sum of money.

    AMD really needs to get back to the core values that got them so far with Athlon/X2..Stop trying to follow Intel's flute with the octo core so soon. Take a breather, fix your processors issues, and compete at what got you this far, creative innovations. Not to say that a Native quad isn't innovative, but they forced them selves to take something that intel would touch till 45nm, focused so much on the native quad aspect and not the architectural performance itself. Let's just hope they get back on track, but who knows when that will happen.


    Yes, I agree about the raise. That was a big "How on earth could they do that" sort of thing. If the company is hurting so much right now, I'm not sure if raises are the highest of things on the priority list. That isn't to say they shouldn't give a raise to some workers, just not those that the general public holds solely accountable for major things.

    AMD was always good on creating innovative and accurate road-maps. They're great for creating things and delivering on what they say; that seemed to go aways when they failed to expand on 4x4, which I was actually contemplating purchasing, but with no company support around it it was money thrown away.

    AMD would not be in this giant mess had it not focused so much on "native" quad core as it would have been on making a quad core that performed "better." There's to many things to list that AMD could do right now to pull them back into the game, or things that they could have done about 2 years ago to put themselves at great profits.

    The only saving grace I can see from the Agena core is the Tri-Core and Dual-Core processors. The sooner they release those, the sooner they can start making money; being as that they would be A.) cheaper and B.) perform better than K8. K8 performs fairly decent towards Core 2 Duos in performance and price, so I imagine that a K10 dual core would be even better. So where are they? That's the question I'm asking.

    This whole Black Edition thing is just to soon, and way, way off track. I think a sad face is warranted here. :(
  16. BaronMatrix said:
    It should be great since nearly every sample I saw was able to get to 3GHz by turning up the multiplier. And with AMD OverDrive, great may be an understatement.



    I call bullshit.
  17. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=167977&page=10

    these guys have reached 2.7. 2.8 and 3 Ghz in normal phenoms
    the problem is still the northbridge, not the rest
    so Im pretty sure you will be hable to overclock higher with pure multiplier :o
  18. BaronMatrix said:
    It should be great since nearly every sample I saw was able to get to 3GHz by turning up the multiplier. And with AMD OverDrive, great may be an understatement.

    WOW! 2.3Ghz ~ 3.0Ghz is called great!

    Then what about Q6600, which can go from 2.4Ghz ~ 3.6Ghz on air?

    Personally, I really have doubt for your statements, as they have been proven continuously to be inaccurate. However, we'll see when they launch.
  19. If AMD could produce chips that stable at those speeds, they would and try to sell them.

    The only reason Intel does not sell faster chips is they are not being pushed.

    I read the thread and I saw nothing about stable chips at those speeds.
    A few talking about booting. A few saying briefly "Prime Stable".

    Not really much of any good news.

    And to those curious about steppings, AMD already said they do not expect to have the B3 available until late Q1. So, no, this is not a chip that has the L3 erratta fixed. I'm not sure they have even figured out how to do that well yet. Remember, this erratta is one of the main reasons they kept reducing speeds.

    They also cut the NB speed to try and fix it.
    The linked article talks alot about how the chip really suffers under NB under 2.0.

    Now, by supplying lots of power and lots of chipset cooling, they did get higher NB speeds, but again this is more along the lines of extreme cooling.

    You are going to need to spend lots on the Phenom to make it match a 6400+ X2.
  20. How to sell off a bunch of bugged B2 Processors:

    A) Relabel them as unlocked Black Editions to the unknowing enthusiast.

    If it's not an early B3, it's not worth it.
  21. So I guess the essential questions here are:

    1) is that article about BE being released inaccurate altogether...

    and

    2) but even if correct, will the release be even more egg on AMD's face if it flops...

    To paraphrase Grand Moff Tarkin: "You are taking an awful risk here Vader. This plan of yours better work."
  22. jagmuss said:
    Every sample that you saw? AMD invited you into the yet to occur unveiling?


    No, this very site had an ES (unlocked) that ran stable at 3GHz and several other places easily got to 3GHz. Only Anand got lower but I believe he had a retail chip (locked).
  23. Looks like AMD is trying to pull it self out of the quick sand. :lol: :pfff:
    They should have released a product that was ready.
  24. yomamafor1 said:
    WOW! 2.3Ghz ~ 3.0Ghz is called great!

    Then what about Q6600, which can go from 2.4Ghz ~ 3.6Ghz on air?

    Personally, I really have doubt for your statements, as they have been proven continuously to be inaccurate. However, we'll see when they launch.



    Well, it may be much better with the boards and BIOS' improving steadily (mobos do get new revs). Please don't let this thread debilitate into whatever the last one did. If you don't have anything positive to say that's fine. Participate in another thread. The platform can only get better. I'm confident that it will very quickly.

    I'm not at all positive of what the exact clockspeed problems are, but again, they haven't been making chips for 20 years without being able to release products as advertised. But I'm sure that no matter what they do, your opinion won't change.
  25. BaronMatrix said:
    Well, it may be much better with the boards and BIOS' improving steadily (mobos do get new revs). Please don't let this thread debilitate into whatever the last one did. If you don't have anything positive to say that's fine. Participate in another thread. The platform can only get better. I'm confident that it will very quickly.

    I'm not at all positive of what the exact clockspeed problems are, but again, they haven't been making chips for 20 years without being able to release products as advertised. But I'm sure that no matter what they do, your opinion won't change.


    Althought my comment may have seemed to be bashing, this is what I was hoping for. Black Edition Phenoms will be the reason I go back to AMD (rather than the 8x locked Q9450 or Nehalem with 3 sockets). If they are successful and they get the B3 out the door I can't wait... I just hope they do bring back the Quad FX platform for the BE Phenoms.

    I like both companies, I just think the B2 Phenom is a complete disappointment, I hope for more from the B3.
  26. But I'm sure that no matter what they do, your opinion won't change.[/quotems


    Darn Baron,

    You really knew from experience what you are talking about when you made this statement.

    Maybe with all 14 of these chips being released Hector will get another raise.


    On the positive side, you have talked about how low Intel is about their buisness practices that is the reason you despise them.

    Is it okay for AMD investors and backers to lose millions due to the mismanagment of the company yet the CEO gets a pay raise?
  27. BaronMatrix said:
    Well, it may be much better with the boards and BIOS' improving steadily (mobos do get new revs). Please don't let this thread debilitate into whatever the last one did. If you don't have anything positive to say that's fine. Participate in another thread. The platform can only get better. I'm confident that it will very quickly.

    I'm not at all positive of what the exact clockspeed problems are, but again, they haven't been making chips for 20 years without being able to release products as advertised. But I'm sure that no matter what they do, your opinion won't change.


    Hmmm, that's funny..I remember reading a ES Barcelona sample dying off, a 3ghz sample, they couldn't even finish the benchmarks. I'll attempt to find that article again, although it was quite early on.

    Release products as advertised?...rofl...

    Claims of a 40% increase in performance over core?..meanwhile a 2.6 phenom can't even beat a 2.4 q6600. You're full of it. Normally I would agree about the "If you don't have anything positive to say, don't" phrase. But when you yourself spread lies and deception among all your posts, sorry, we will have something negative to say.

    As always, fud, better yet, based on your posts, If you don't have any real advice to give to others besides biased opinions, don't. Running through your past posts, it's amazing how you ignorantly recommend the Phenom without even stating the issues at hand, that is not helping those asking for help, it's misguiding them with your bias and ignorant ways.
  28. BaronMatrix said:
    Well, it may be much better with the boards and BIOS' improving steadily (mobos do get new revs). Please don't let this thread debilitate into whatever the last one did. If you don't have anything positive to say that's fine. Participate in another thread. The platform can only get better. I'm confident that it will very quickly.

    I'm not at all positive of what the exact clockspeed problems are, but again, they haven't been making chips for 20 years without being able to release products as advertised. But I'm sure that no matter what they do, your opinion won't change.

    Your very statement is provoking and will turn this thread into whatever the last one turned into.
    While i find your unfailing optimism inspiring, it is uncalled for to limit this thread to AMD praises since the situation right now obviously looks otherwise.
    Additionally i would find it more helpful of you to include links if you post things like "No, this very site had an ES (unlocked) that ran stable at 3GHz and several other places easily got to 3GHz. Only Anand got lower but I believe he had a retail chip (locked).". I for one am honestly interested in information about the Phenom processor and its capabilites. For all i know the chip tested by THG was an ES and could have been hand picked for the press. The only other thorough article i read was on anandtech and the overclocking shown there was nothing short of a debacle.
  29. i dont care about the unlocked multiplier...i want faster clock for clock!!!
  30. thepinkpanther said:
    i dont care about the unlocked multiplier...i want faster clock for clock!!!


    Whats the difference if you get better performance per $?
  31. jerseygamer said:
    Whats the difference if you get better performance per $?


    I will say this.. if that was true I'd be all for it, but it's not priced versus Intel's Q line up for price/performance at the moment. If you start talking about the value of overclocking it's even less of a deal since most Q6600s can do at a minimum of 3.0 GHz.

    Also for some people it's not about price/performance, it's just about price OR performance.
  32. bfellow said:
    I'm pretty sure you can identify, re-design/fix, test, and go from a B2 to B3 revision in a couple of weeks.

    The B2 has been out since September and I think the problem was found back in may or june. Do not mistake its been months. B3 is releasing next month so its not like its so far off. Title says it all.

    Quote:
    Phenom B3 errata free comes next week


    http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4599&Itemid=1
  33. You don't get better performance with a unlocked multiplier black edition. You just have the ability to overclock with a unlocked multiplier, But, the phenoms aren't capable of clocking far atm due to architectural issues.
  34. bfellow said:
    I'm pretty sure you can identify, re-design/fix, test, and go from a B2 to B3 revision in a couple of weeks.


    Not in any real quantity :sweat:
  35. It takes a bit of effort, more than 2 weeks. To manufacture a large amount takes a while, they also need to make sure no new problems are being created with their new stepping. You never know what can happen.
  36. B3s won't arrive for a couple of months at least:

    Instead, AMD is preparing a hardware fix in the next revision of the chip, dubbed B3. Future revisions of the Phenom, including the planned Phenom 9700 model at 2.4GHz and the 9900 at 2.6GHz, will include the fix. AMD plans to replace the current Phenom 9500 and 9600 models with new 9550 and 9650 models, based on the B3 chip, as well. Saucier's best estimate for the arrival of B3 chips is "mid to late Q1" next year.

    http://www.techreport.com/discussions.x/13724
  37. BaronMatrix said:
    Well, it may be much better with the boards and BIOS' improving steadily (mobos do get new revs). Please don't let this thread debilitate into whatever the last one did. If you don't have anything positive to say that's fine. Participate in another thread. The platform can only get better. I'm confident that it will very quickly.

    I'm not at all positive of what the exact clockspeed problems are, but again, they haven't been making chips for 20 years without being able to release products as advertised. But I'm sure that no matter what they do, your opinion won't change.


    I will participate if there's misinformation involved. For your reference, there has only been one site who got their Phenom to 3.0Ghz, with 1.5Vcore. So there was no "one very site who has 3.0Ghz stable, along with other 3.0Ghz chips". There has always been one.

    http://news.expreview.com/2007-10-29/1193590532d6599.html

    TBH, my opinion will never change, regardless of what they say. Only if they start showing solid proofs, then I'll change my opinion.
  38. jagmuss said:
    Every sample that you saw? AMD invited you into the yet to occur unveiling?


    Previously being a janitor does have it benefits. ;)
  39. elbert said:
    The B2 has been out since September and I think the problem was found back in may or june. Do not mistake its been months. B3 is releasing next month so its not like its so far off. Title says it all.

    Quote:
    Phenom B3 errata free comes next week


    http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4599&Itemid=1


    Not trying to shoot you down, but Fudzilla isn't the most reliable news source around. I would believe what TechReport said, which B3 is due in Q1 of 08.
  40. BaronMatrix said:
    No, this very site had an ES (unlocked) that ran stable at 3GHz and several other places easily got to 3GHz. Only Anand got lower but I believe he had a retail chip (locked).


    Would you mind citing that article for me? Seems like an interesting read.
  41. ^Typical BaronMatrix

    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
  42. BaronMatrix said:
    No, this very site had an ES (unlocked) that ran stable at 3GHz and several other places easily got to 3GHz. Only Anand got lower but I believe he had a retail chip (locked).


    'Had' implies possession... This very site was allowed to participate in an AMD stage-managed event, and with AMD minders watching their every move...

    Anand Lal Shimpi, on the other hand, got rather upset over that arrangement, and refused to participate. So he got a sample delivered to Anand's labs, where they could in no way match what happened at other sites that went to Tahoe... All very interesting.
  43. zenmaster said:
    If AMD could produce chips that stable at those speeds, they would and try to sell them.

    The only reason Intel does not sell faster chips is they are not being pushed.


    And heat. A 3.6 GHz Q6600 pulls somewhere around 200 watts, depending on voltage.

    Quote:
    I read the thread and I saw nothing about stable chips at those speeds.
    A few talking about booting. A few saying briefly "Prime Stable".


    That too. A chip has to be rock-solid at a shipped speed. Intel tried to ship a partially-stable chip once, the 1.13 GHz PIII Coppermine, and was handed its butt for doing so.

    Quote:
    And to those curious about steppings, AMD already said they do not expect to have the B3 available until late Q1. So, no, this is not a chip that has the L3 erratta fixed. I'm not sure they have even figured out how to do that well yet. Remember, this erratta is one of the main reasons they kept reducing speeds.

    They also cut the NB speed to try and fix it.
    The linked article talks alot about how the chip really suffers under NB under 2.0.

    Now, by supplying lots of power and lots of chipset cooling, they did get higher NB speeds, but again this is more along the lines of extreme cooling.


    Enthusiasts will overclock the sucker and their increase of the clock and voltage will be less stable than whatever the L3 TLB bug could do. Kernel panics/BSODs and random lockups and failures to boot are the norm with this group; they will not give a flying fart about the TLB bug if it *might* bite them once over the year they have the CPU. Plus, the overclockers will raise NB speeds as well, giving the chip a performance boost. If they can get them to clock high enough, it might end up being a very good and relatively inexpensive setup, especially if they want to have a good and inexpensive CrossFire GPU setup, which works best on the 790FX chipset. It might not beat somebody's QX9650 in CPU tests, but it'll be a heck of a lot cheaper and probably perform just as well in games.
  44. Anonymous said:
    But I'm sure that no matter what they do, your opinion won't change.[/quotems


    Darn Baron,

    You really knew from experience what you are talking about when you made this statement.

    Maybe with all 14 of these chips being released Hector will get another raise.


    On the positive side, you have talked about how low Intel is about their buisness practices that is the reason you despise them.

    Is it okay for AMD investors and backers to lose millions due to the mismanagment of the company yet the CEO gets a pay raise?


    This is not an Intel post. 14 of them? That's the kind of comedy that makes me say things liekthat.
  45. Oh boy, i can buy a piece of crap that will overheat and error out...or...just buy a INTEL cpu and outperform it WITHOUT even overclocking. There is NO reason to get a Phenom PERIOD.
    Amd would have to change and rebuild it to perform a good 20% (and actually beat the SLOWEST Intel Quad) to become even considered to be bought.
    So much for any upgrade for me by cpu. Looks like i'll have to do the motherboard and cpu to get better performance. Pretty pathetic when my overclocked X2 whips the CRAP out of any Phenom cpu.
  46. Slobogob said:
    Your very statement is provoking and will turn this thread into whatever the last one turned into.
    While i find your unfailing optimism inspiring, it is uncalled for to limit this thread to AMD praises since the situation right now obviously looks otherwise.
    Additionally i would find it more helpful of you to include links if you post things like "No, this very site had an ES (unlocked) that ran stable at 3GHz and several other places easily got to 3GHz. Only Anand got lower but I believe he had a retail chip (locked).". I for one am honestly interested in information about the Phenom processor and its capabilites. For all i know the chip tested by THG was an ES and could have been hand picked for the press. The only other thorough article i read was on anandtech and the overclocking shown there was nothing short of a debacle.



    I'm not praising AMD, I'm saying that CRAP happens. I say, it will improve, you say For all i know the chip tested by THG....

    It's just sickening.
  47. Kamrooz said:
    You don't get better performance with a unlocked multiplier black edition. You just have the ability to overclock with a unlocked multiplier, But, the phenoms aren't capable of clocking far atm due to architectural issues.



    Again, you state something you couldn't possibly know. THAT'S FUD. Be afraid, be uncertain, have doubts.
  48. Quote:
    Enthusiasts will overclock the sucker and their increase of the clock and voltage will be less stable than whatever the L3 TLB bug could do. Kernel panics/BSODs and random lockups and failures to boot are the norm with this group; they will not give a flying fart about the TLB bug if it *might* bite them once over the year they have the CPU. Plus, the overclockers will raise NB speeds as well, giving the chip a performance boost. If they can get them to clock high enough, it might end up being a very good and relatively inexpensive setup, especially if they want to have a good and inexpensive CrossFire GPU setup, which works best on the 790FX chipset.

    I'd like to think any instability with a chip is resolvable by a simple clock speed adjustment that still results in good performance for the value, better than I initially paid for.

    If a chip is buggy to the point that a set of code repeatedly crashes it, that's a loss of functionality with my computer. That's why K10 B2 stands out as a red flag to me. It's like I have to underclock it sometimes if worried about stability.
  49. While I'm not stating a Black Edition Phenom would be a bad thing; I am going to instead say that a Black Edition product seems premature, whereas an FX lineup would have seemed more plausible. Or is the Black Edition series lower than the FX series, or is the Black Edition series the new FX?

    Either way I still note that it's to soon for an enthusiast product, be it FX or Black Edition. Granted that it would put the highest performaing Phenom product substantially higher in price than it's Core 2 Quad Q6600 competitor.
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