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Tom's Hardware > Forum > Graphics & Displays > AMD Radeon > Should I be considering a GPU upgrade???

Should I be considering a GPU upgrade???

Forum Graphics & Displays : AMD Radeon Should I be considering a GPU upgrade???

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I am a proud owner of an x1800xt 512mb video card. I was wondering if I were to make a system upgrade to an AMD x2 5000 BE and 2 gigs of ddr2 ram, should I be considering a gpu upgrade or will the cpu release more of the video cards potential (cuz I know its being bottlenecked under my current setup).

------------------------------ AMD64 X2 6000 + Biostar Tseries 770 + 4gb DDR2 800 G.Skill + Thermaltake WingRS case + Raidmax 530w modular PSU + 200gig internal WD HD + 250gig external WD HD + 500gig external Simpletech HDD + Belkin Wireless G PCI receiver + Gigabyte ATI Radeon HD4850
Reply to ahslan
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I definitely would. You can get an HD 3750 for $160 dollars and it's twice as fast as your current card. You could splurge a little more and get the HD 3870, which is like the modern equivalent to your current card.

Reply to IndigoMoss
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Depends. What size is your monitor/what res do you play games at?

An X1800 XT is still a viable card up to 1600x1200.

------------------------------ Cleeve
Hardware Editor, Tom's Hardware Guide
Reply to Cleeve
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Quote :

I definitely would. You can get an HD 3750 for $160 dollars and it's twice as fast as your current card. You could splurge a little more and get the HD 3870, which is like the modern equivalent to your current card.



???????

Dont you mean HD 3850 for $160.

Reply to physx7
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If you have to even ask the question "Do I need an upgrade?" then you probably do.

Your games and everything else will run a lot better with a Dual Core CPU.

It's Christmas time. Give yourself an excuse to splurge and spend some money. Besides, I am sure AMD could use your dollars right now.

Reply to rwayne
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rwayne wrote :


Your games and everything else will run a lot better with a Dual Core CPU.




Not necessarily... very few games will utilize dual cores.

But new games like Crysis or Supreme Commander will very likely show a difference with a dual-core CPU.

------------------------------ Cleeve
Hardware Editor, Tom's Hardware Guide
Reply to Cleeve
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Watch your PSU load, that 420 may not carry a 3850, 3870 or 8800GT. Otherwise i would. Any new card for that matter. You 1800 would run better with a better PSU.

RWayne is right, a Dual core would help. I know. I had a pentium 4 HT and i was maxing my cpu out on COD4.

Reply to 50bmg

I'd say that buying the CPU now would squeeze every last bit of performance out of that x1800, but combining it with a 3850 or 3870 would just be icing on the cake. :)

Reply to rgeist554
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50bmg wrote :

RWayne is right, a Dual core would help. I know. I had a pentium 4 HT and i was maxing my cpu out on COD4.



DAMNIT TO HELL PEOPLE! I am going to beat this drum until the day I die becuase I am tired of people giving bullshit information out.

A Dual Core processor, in and of itself, will not do anything noticeable to increase your performance in the vast majority of games. An AMD 3500+ and a 4200+ run at the same damn clock speed, 2.2Ghz, and are the exact same architecture and if you swap in the X2 for the old 3500+ you will not see an increase in your gaming ability. The only, repeat, ONLY difference comes when you change architecture! Going from a god-awful netburst designed P4 to a much more modern Core 2 Duo or Phenom or whatever will result in an increase in performance, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MORE CORES. You want to talk about 'multi-tasking' or games designed for multiple threads then yes, you see an increase with a dual core but the vast majority (read: 99%) of games will see no increase from a single to a dual core all other things being the same. (i.e. clock speed, architecture etc)

Someone will come back with something equally witty and try to prove me wrong by saying they got an increase. Its bullshit. You might be able to set the affinity of your horrible McAfee or Norton bloatware to one core and your game to the other to see a slight increase but there is no increase to be seen by adding a dual core. The programs aren't written for dual cores so let's stop this nonsense now.


Now...to the OP :lol:

you should always consider a GPU increase. Even at your grandmothers funeral, in the back of your head you should be running cost-benefit analysis' of GPU's, its the only way to go. :lol: I personally don't believe you will see much of an increase with a new setup, certainly not as much as spending the same amount of money on a new card but as has been correctly mentioned, you need to make sure your PSU will be able to support something else. If you can't afford a new PSU and video card then yes, I think it is a sensible upgrade as it will provide a good platform for a future drop in of a newer card like the midrange 9xxx series from Nvidia that should be out mid year next year...gives you time to save up!

------------------------------ My specs:

AMD Phenom II 955BE @ 3.6GHz // 8GB (4*2GB) G.Skill DDR3 1600 // Crossfire'd ATI 5770 @ 875/1300 // 2 - 250GB WD HDD, 1 - 650GB WD HDD // HTO Striker 7.0 // Saitek Eclipse - Logitech G5 // Asus 23.6" and Acer 19"
Reply to jrnyfan

Quote :

Someone will come back with something equally witty and try to prove me wrong by saying they got an increase. Its bullshit. You might be able to set the affinity of your horrible McAfee or Norton bloatware to one core and your game to the other to see a slight increase but there is no increase to be seen by adding a dual core. The programs aren't written for dual cores so let's stop this nonsense now.



Here is some evidence to back up your claims: (P4 @ 2.8Ghz vs. PD @ 2.8Ghz in UT4) both run at 41.4 FPS - both are also netburst arch.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_ [...] &chart=422

Really you need to focus on Mhz / Ghz, instructions per clock cycle, and the architecture (as stated above) when determining whether a CPU upgrade is a viable option.

In the OP's case - I'll say again - the GPU is the best place to start, but afterwards getting the 5000+ BE and OC'ing to 3.0-3.4 Ghz he would see a nice little increase in performance. Currently he is using the 3400 @ 2.2Ghz (this is off the top of my head, correct me if I'm wrong) - so the 800Mhz gain will help.

Reply to rgeist554
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rgeist554 wrote :

Here is some evidence to back up your claims: (P4 @ 2.8Ghz vs. PD @ 2.8Ghz in UT4) both run at 41.4 FPS - both are also netburst arch.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_ [...] &chart=422



thanks for doing the leg work for me, i was too lazy :lol:

rgeist554 wrote :

OC'ing to 3.0-3.4 Ghz he would see a nice little increase in performance...so the 800Mhz gain will help.



ooo...good point, i missed the 'BE' part of that equation and you are right, they are designed to overclock like beesknees so he would see a larger increase vs just a non-overclocked drop-in. good call.

------------------------------ My specs:

AMD Phenom II 955BE @ 3.6GHz // 8GB (4*2GB) G.Skill DDR3 1600 // Crossfire'd ATI 5770 @ 875/1300 // 2 - 250GB WD HDD, 1 - 650GB WD HDD // HTO Striker 7.0 // Saitek Eclipse - Logitech G5 // Asus 23.6" and Acer 19"
Reply to jrnyfan
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I'm pretty sure some games do show a slight increase with dual core. I believe Supreme Commander is a good example. Oblivion also shows a small increase, and from what I've read Crysis can utilize dual cores (although I've never seen a single vs dual bench of that one)

But for the most part, I support your statement. More than 90% of games will show diddly squat difference between single and dual core CPUs.

------------------------------ Cleeve
Hardware Editor, Tom's Hardware Guide
Reply to Cleeve
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Cleeve wrote :

I believe Supreme Commander is a good example ... Crysis can utilize dual cores



supreme commander was the first game (that i can think of) that was billed as being programmed specifically for dual core and i have heard the same thing about crysis but i don't plan on buying it so i will never have first hand knowledge.

that was exactly my point, thank you for clarifying. if the program or game is written to optimize multiple cores then yes, you should see an increase. games like battlefield 2 don't see an increase so if that's your game du jour then don't expect a jump in fps.

------------------------------ My specs:

AMD Phenom II 955BE @ 3.6GHz // 8GB (4*2GB) G.Skill DDR3 1600 // Crossfire'd ATI 5770 @ 875/1300 // 2 - 250GB WD HDD, 1 - 650GB WD HDD // HTO Striker 7.0 // Saitek Eclipse - Logitech G5 // Asus 23.6" and Acer 19"
Reply to jrnyfan

While jrnyfan is correct in everything he said, it should be pointed out that the new games coming out and being developed will use those extra cores. No developer in their right mind would set out and create a new single threaded engine today. If your goal is to play stuff from the last few years, then you're fine with the single core. If you plan for this to be your gaming box in the years to come, buy that multi core cpu.

Reply to MooseMuffin
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Soooooooo basically all you said in your rant was: If it aint multi-core (threaded) optimized you aint gonna see no increase n performence with a dual core over a single unless the dual's clock speed is faster.

Reply to physx7

Basically, yeah, I think that sums up the point. :p

Reply to rgeist554
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rofl...fine...reduce my ranting and ravings down to a simple two line post. next time, i am going to tab you as my copy editor :D

------------------------------ My specs:

AMD Phenom II 955BE @ 3.6GHz // 8GB (4*2GB) G.Skill DDR3 1600 // Crossfire'd ATI 5770 @ 875/1300 // 2 - 250GB WD HDD, 1 - 650GB WD HDD // HTO Striker 7.0 // Saitek Eclipse - Logitech G5 // Asus 23.6" and Acer 19"
Reply to jrnyfan

dual core vs single core might be the same for most games... but what if you want to encode a video while playing a game? In this day and age, anyone who doesnt encode a few hours a week of video is living in the dark ages.

Reply to shadowmaster625
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I hold off my encoding until I'm done gaming, personally.

Maybe I'm living in the dark ages, I dunno... :D

------------------------------ Cleeve
Hardware Editor, Tom's Hardware Guide
Reply to Cleeve
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Cleeve wrote :

I'm pretty sure some games do show a slight increase with dual core. I believe Supreme Commander is a good example. Oblivion also shows a small increase, and from what I've read Crysis can utilize dual cores (although I've never seen a single vs dual bench of that one)

But for the most part, I support your statement. More than 90% of games will show diddly squat difference between single and dual core CPUs.

I would not say dual core gives a notable increase in game play; it just helps prevent a decrease from occurring.

If you are running a game on a single core CPU and back ground application has to run it is going to tax your processor and your game play is going to suffer as a result.

If your antivirus or some other background system process decides to launch during your game at a critical moment it could drop your fraps and as a result your opponent gets to react a second faster than you and as a result you are placed an immediate disadvantage versus your opponent.

Dual core technology helps absorb the processes running in the background and prevents issues like these from occurring so they don't impact your game significantly.

However that should only concern you if you are a highly competitive gamer. For casual gamers it probably would not bother them too much. It has a most significant impact in FPS and RTS games.

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by rwayne on 12-15-2007 at 05:16:19 AM
Reply to rwayne
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rwayne wrote :

I would not say dual core gives a notable increase in game play; it just helps prevent a decrease from occurring.



I'd disagree with that, with a lot of newer titles developed specifically for for multi-threading.
Supreme commander is an example:

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/arti [...] VzaWFzdA==

Single core score: 10.7 fps
Dual core: 26.8 fps

COLOSSAL difference.... three times the framerate with dual cores!

Oblivion is one of the first titles to take advantage of dual cores, and it's fairly old:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=2747&p=3

Single core Athlon 64 2.4 Ghz: 39.6 fps
Dual core Athlon 64 2.4 Ghz: 44.1 fps

Not as dramatic as supcom, but clearly a 10% difference.

These are not differences caused by a background app: this is a benchmark setting, controlled, and the second core enabled or disabled. Clearly, these engines have been compiled specifically with dual core optimizations.

Multi-core is the undeniable future. It has taken devs some time to catch up, and games like SupCom are few and far between, but as next gen titles are released it will become the rule, not the exception.


Message edited by Cleeve on 12-15-2007 at 08:04:31 AM
------------------------------ Cleeve
Hardware Editor, Tom's Hardware Guide
Reply to Cleeve
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*sits down and observes how the thread has sucessfully jumped the shark*

*evil laugh followed by maniacal hand twisting*

my apologies to the OP :D

------------------------------ My specs:

AMD Phenom II 955BE @ 3.6GHz // 8GB (4*2GB) G.Skill DDR3 1600 // Crossfire'd ATI 5770 @ 875/1300 // 2 - 250GB WD HDD, 1 - 650GB WD HDD // HTO Striker 7.0 // Saitek Eclipse - Logitech G5 // Asus 23.6" and Acer 19"
Reply to jrnyfan

upgrade when you can't play anymore to the settings you can't play. Unless you are graphics whore you should just hold on to the card long as possible.

------------------------------ Asus P5B vanilla with E5200 @ 4ghz
4 gigs Gskill
GTX 260+
Reply to marvelous211
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Quote :

rofl...fine...reduce my ranting and ravings down to a simple two line post. next time, i am going to tab you as my copy editor :D



50 bones n hour...


Message edited by physx7 on 01-18-2008 at 04:01:48 PM
Reply to physx7
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Thx alot guys for the replies...sry i didnt reply sooner...i took ur guys' advice and didnt buy anything...instead, decided to save the money and wait until my games are unplayable (which they are far from...at least right now)...this will give time for prices to drop even more so I can get the best bang for my buck...
Once again, thx for the responses!

------------------------------ AMD64 X2 6000 + Biostar Tseries 770 + 4gb DDR2 800 G.Skill + Thermaltake WingRS case + Raidmax 530w modular PSU + 200gig internal WD HD + 250gig external WD HD + 500gig external Simpletech HDD + Belkin Wireless G PCI receiver + Gigabyte ATI Radeon HD4850
Reply to ahslan
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Oh ya...forgot to let ya guys know...I OC'd my cpu to 2.5ghz now (with stock voltages and stock heatsink) and I actually saw a difference...SWEET!!!

------------------------------ AMD64 X2 6000 + Biostar Tseries 770 + 4gb DDR2 800 G.Skill + Thermaltake WingRS case + Raidmax 530w modular PSU + 200gig internal WD HD + 250gig external WD HD + 500gig external Simpletech HDD + Belkin Wireless G PCI receiver + Gigabyte ATI Radeon HD4850
Reply to ahslan
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