Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Using T-moible's Unlocked phone internationally..

Last response: in Network Providers
Share
January 20, 2005 9:41:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

I have t-mobile service. I am travelling to Asia and i want to use my
GSM phone there with local prepaid card.
I called t-mobile for unlocked code, they said they will give me in 48
hours.. that's good, BUT they also told me when i use prepaid card in
Asia, i will also be using my airtime minutes!!!! IS THAT
TRUE?????????????
Because as far as i understand, i will take t-mobile sim card out of my
phone, put new prepaid local sim card in the phone.. now how can
t-mobile charge me for airtime when i am not even using their
network???!!!

Please Help..

Thanks

Sam
Anonymous
January 20, 2005 1:36:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

<snip>
>, BUT they also told me when i use prepaid card in
> Asia, i will also be using my airtime minutes!!!! IS THAT
> TRUE?????????????
> Because as far as i understand, i will take t-mobile sim card out of my
> phone, put new prepaid local sim card in the phone.. now how can
> t-mobile charge me for airtime when i am not even using their
> network???!!!
>
> Please Help..
<snip>
Not true, don't worry. But take your T-mobile sim out before you leave and
don't put it in the phone till you get back. If you turn the phone on and
register with the T-mobile sim with a roaming partner while in Asia then you
will recieve messages and a bill even if you don't make calls.
Anonymous
January 20, 2005 6:09:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

On 20 Jan 2005 06:41:35 -0800, "Sam" <smartboy123us@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I have t-mobile service. I am travelling to Asia and i want to use my
>GSM phone there with local prepaid card.
>I called t-mobile for unlocked code, they said they will give me in 48
>hours.. that's good, BUT they also told me when i use prepaid card in
>Asia, i will also be using my airtime minutes!!!! IS THAT
>TRUE?????????????

No. If you're using a prepaid card, your minutes will come off that.
You will be doing everything over the network of the prepaid card
provider. You just got a very, very clueless rep.

>Because as far as i understand, i will take t-mobile sim card out of my
>phone, put new prepaid local sim card in the phone.. now how can
>t-mobile charge me for airtime when i am not even using their
>network???!!!

They can't.
Related resources
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 2:18:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Stanley Reynolds" <nospam_stanley_reynolds@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:g2RHd.29027$vh.22605@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> <snip>
> >, BUT they also told me when i use prepaid card in
> > Asia, i will also be using my airtime minutes!!!! IS THAT
> > TRUE?????????????
> > Because as far as i understand, i will take t-mobile sim card out of my
> > phone, put new prepaid local sim card in the phone.. now how can
> > t-mobile charge me for airtime when i am not even using their
> > network???!!!
> >
> > Please Help..
> <snip>
> Not true, don't worry. But take your T-mobile sim out before you leave and
> don't put it in the phone till you get back. If you turn the phone on and
> register with the T-mobile sim with a roaming partner while in Asia then you
> will recieve messages and a bill even if you don't make calls.
>
>
Absolutely not true in my case. I always leave my sim card in when I go to Asia
and remove it after I buy the local prepaid sim card. I have NEVER been charged
for anything unless I made or received a call using the T-Mobile sim.
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 3:21:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

If you turn on and register the phone in another country then any call
placed to your phone before midnight will incur roaming charges even if
your phone is turned off. To add insult to injury, if the call is
unanswered and goes to voicemail, you get charged for another roaming
minute. This happened to me from both Asia and Central America and I
have the bills to prove it.
Now, I don't turn the phone on till I have a local SIM installed and
then I just dial my T-Mo number to check VM periodically.

From:Alfagunner
Alfagunner@yahoo.com

> "Stanley Reynolds" <nospam_stanley_reynolds@yahoo.com> wrote in
> message news:g2RHd.29027$vh.22605@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>> <snip>
>>> , BUT they also told me when i use prepaid card in
>>> Asia, i will also be using my airtime minutes!!!! IS THAT
>>> TRUE?????????????
>>> Because as far as i understand, i will take t-mobile sim card out
>>> of my phone, put new prepaid local sim card in the phone.. now how
>>> can t-mobile charge me for airtime when i am not even using their
>>> network???!!!
>>>
>>> Please Help..
>> <snip>
>> Not true, don't worry. But take your T-mobile sim out before you
>> leave and don't put it in the phone till you get back. If you turn
>> the phone on and register with the T-mobile sim with a roaming
>> partner while in Asia then you will recieve messages and a bill even
>> if you don't make calls.
>>
>>
> Absolutely not true in my case. I always leave my sim card in when I
> go to Asia and remove it after I buy the local prepaid sim card. I
> have NEVER been charged for anything unless I made or received a call
> using the T-Mobile sim.
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 3:21:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
news:8WXHd.73803$gd.18571@twister.socal.rr.com...
> If you turn on and register the phone in another country then any call
> placed to your phone before midnight will incur roaming charges even if
> your phone is turned off.

This is not generally true and has never happened to me. It might happen
with some 3rd rate roaming partners who don't properly deregister roamers,
but it should only happen in rare circumstances. When you switch your phone
off, the VLR should deregister your location with your HLR which should then
note that you are "out of service" Your "out of service" CCF should then
send incoming calls directly to your VM without touching any foreign system.
You can make sure to avoid any problems by forwarding all calls to VM before
powering the phone off. Your call divert settings should work even when
roaming.

> To add insult to injury, if the call is
> unanswered and goes to voicemail, you get charged for another roaming
> minute. This happened to me from both Asia and Central America and I
> have the bills to prove it.

Correct, but only for CCF "busy" and "no answer".

> Now, I don't turn the phone on till I have a local SIM installed and
> then I just dial my T-Mo number to check VM periodically.

I call Tech Support and get the DCF turned off for as long as that will
last. I also sometimes set my CCF "busy" and "no answer" to a target number
than will never answer.

Of course, everyone who is concerned about this should tell T-Mobile that
they will refuse to roam overseas until the DCF problem is fixed and we get
back control of our CCF settings. DCF was only instituted because 99.44% of
customers are too stupid to understand how to set CCF properly. T-Mobile
should make allowances for the other 0.56% who can.

--
Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
January 21, 2005 9:44:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Thanks BruceR,

I feel better now.. I was really surprice by his answer.. BUT for wan't
going to buy that..

Thanks again..
January 21, 2005 9:45:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Thnaks everyone for your help... I really appreciate everyone's help...
January 21, 2005 10:09:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

On 20 Jan 2005 06:41:35 -0800, "Sam" <smartboy123us@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I have t-mobile service. I am travelling to Asia and i want to use my
>GSM phone there with local prepaid card.
>I called t-mobile for unlocked code, they said they will give me in 48
>hours.. that's good, BUT they also told me when i use prepaid card in
>Asia, i will also be using my airtime minutes!!!! IS THAT
>TRUE?????????????

That's absolutely positively false! Using another SIM you will have
nothing to do with T-Mobile.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 2:40:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

This brings up interesting questions.

Which network actually forwards your incoming calls while you roam and your
phone is switched on: home or foreign?
Does this depend on the type of the divert (unconditional vs. busy vs.
no-answer)?
When you change your call forwarding options while roaming, does the foreign
network immediately send the new options to the home network?

The fact that it's possible to get charged for 2 minutes for an unanswered
call that goes to voicemail tells me that it's the foreign network that
forwards at least for the no-answer divert. If it were the home network,
you wouldn't get charged for the "round-trip".

Donald, do you know how this works?

--

\/ L /\ D


"Donald Newcomb" <DRNewcomb@attglobal.NOT.net> wrote in message
news:41f06759_4@news1.prserv.net...

This is not generally true and has never happened to me. It might happen
with some 3rd rate roaming partners who don't properly deregister roamers,
but it should only happen in rare circumstances. When you switch your phone
off, the VLR should deregister your location with your HLR which should then
note that you are "out of service" Your "out of service" CCF should then
send incoming calls directly to your VM without touching any foreign system.
You can make sure to avoid any problems by forwarding all calls to VM before
powering the phone off. Your call divert settings should work even when
roaming.
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 7:57:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

That's how the TMo rep eplained it to me. TMo forwards it tot he foreign
carrier - that's one charge - and then if it's not answered the foreign
carrier forwards it back to TMo - that's the second charge.

From:Vlad Andreyev
vlad@atlantech.net

> This brings up interesting questions.
>
> Which network actually forwards your incoming calls while you roam
> and your phone is switched on: home or foreign?
> Does this depend on the type of the divert (unconditional vs. busy vs.
> no-answer)?
> When you change your call forwarding options while roaming, does the
> foreign network immediately send the new options to the home network?
>
> The fact that it's possible to get charged for 2 minutes for an
> unanswered call that goes to voicemail tells me that it's the foreign
> network that forwards at least for the no-answer divert. If it were
> the home network, you wouldn't get charged for the "round-trip".
>
> Donald, do you know how this works?
>
> --
>
> \/ L /\ D
>
>
> "Donald Newcomb" <DRNewcomb@attglobal.NOT.net> wrote in message
> news:41f06759_4@news1.prserv.net...
>
> This is not generally true and has never happened to me. It might
> happen with some 3rd rate roaming partners who don't properly
> deregister roamers, but it should only happen in rare circumstances.
> When you switch your phone off, the VLR should deregister your
> location with your HLR which should then note that you are "out of
> service" Your "out of service" CCF should then send incoming calls
> directly to your VM without touching any foreign system. You can make
> sure to avoid any problems by forwarding all calls to VM before
> powering the phone off. Your call divert settings should work even
> when roaming.
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 2:12:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

If the call is in fact routed to your handset, it will bill you for one
minute... that is time it is taking for home network (TMobile-USA) to check
for your presence in foreign network. If there is no intervention, meaning
you dont answer call, or reject call, the call is directed thru the home
network to the destination forwarding number ie voicemail...

If you reject the call, then it will charge you time to and from until
actually diverted to destination forwarding...

If you are not flagged in network as actively roaming, ie handset turned
off, or out of coverage in foreign area... Your call is never routed to
foreign network...

Basic GSM network operation, not T-Mobile "explanation"...

And as to the TMobile Rep's "explanation", I woudl surmise that rep was
confused, or misunderstood what was being asked... The rep may have assumed
or understodd that question was about using a prepaid international long
distance card... My friend at TMobile says tehy get calls all teh time as to
how people want to do exactly that... use there TMobile handset, and SIM..
roam in say France... and make calls using a prepaid long distance card, and
expect to get charged nothing since is "toll free" number, which of course
doesnt work overseas... (800/877/866 etc are North American area only, dont
work in Europe and Asia)


"BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
news:N2lId.63570$Ew6.59705@twister.socal.rr.com...
> That's how the TMo rep eplained it to me. TMo forwards it tot he foreign
> carrier - that's one charge - and then if it's not answered the foreign
> carrier forwards it back to TMo - that's the second charge.
>
> From:Vlad Andreyev
> vlad@atlantech.net
>
> > This brings up interesting questions.
> >
> > Which network actually forwards your incoming calls while you roam
> > and your phone is switched on: home or foreign?
> > Does this depend on the type of the divert (unconditional vs. busy vs.
> > no-answer)?
> > When you change your call forwarding options while roaming, does the
> > foreign network immediately send the new options to the home network?
> >
> > The fact that it's possible to get charged for 2 minutes for an
> > unanswered call that goes to voicemail tells me that it's the foreign
> > network that forwards at least for the no-answer divert. If it were
> > the home network, you wouldn't get charged for the "round-trip".
> >
> > Donald, do you know how this works?
> >
> > --
> >
> > \/ L /\ D
> >
> >
> > "Donald Newcomb" <DRNewcomb@attglobal.NOT.net> wrote in message
> > news:41f06759_4@news1.prserv.net...
> >
> > This is not generally true and has never happened to me. It might
> > happen with some 3rd rate roaming partners who don't properly
> > deregister roamers, but it should only happen in rare circumstances.
> > When you switch your phone off, the VLR should deregister your
> > location with your HLR which should then note that you are "out of
> > service" Your "out of service" CCF should then send incoming calls
> > directly to your VM without touching any foreign system. You can make
> > sure to avoid any problems by forwarding all calls to VM before
> > powering the phone off. Your call divert settings should work even
> > when roaming.
>
>
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 10:23:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Both the rep and her supervisor understood the question which was "Why
am I being charged for 2 calls in the same or consecutive minutes (one
in and 1) out when my phone isn't even turned on?" and the answer was as
posted. That's not to say that they didn't give me a wrong answer but I
have heard it from two people there. They claim that once you turn on
your phone in the foreign country they send everything there till
midnight without regard as whether you turned off your phone (they
didn't specify WHO's midnight though).

From:Jym L
ff1089@hotmail.com

> If the call is in fact routed to your handset, it will bill you for
> one minute... that is time it is taking for home network
> (TMobile-USA) to check for your presence in foreign network. If there
> is no intervention, meaning you dont answer call, or reject call, the
> call is directed thru the home network to the destination forwarding
> number ie voicemail...
>
> If you reject the call, then it will charge you time to and from until
> actually diverted to destination forwarding...
>
> If you are not flagged in network as actively roaming, ie handset
> turned off, or out of coverage in foreign area... Your call is never
> routed to foreign network...
>
> Basic GSM network operation, not T-Mobile "explanation"...
>
> And as to the TMobile Rep's "explanation", I woudl surmise that rep
> was confused, or misunderstood what was being asked... The rep may
> have assumed or understodd that question was about using a prepaid
> international long distance card... My friend at TMobile says tehy
> get calls all teh time as to how people want to do exactly that...
> use there TMobile handset, and SIM.. roam in say France... and make
> calls using a prepaid long distance card, and expect to get charged
> nothing since is "toll free" number, which of course doesnt work
> overseas... (800/877/866 etc are North American area only, dont work
> in Europe and Asia)
>
>
> "BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
> news:N2lId.63570$Ew6.59705@twister.socal.rr.com...
>> That's how the TMo rep eplained it to me. TMo forwards it tot he
>> foreign carrier - that's one charge - and then if it's not answered
>> the foreign carrier forwards it back to TMo - that's the second
>> charge.
>>
>> From:Vlad Andreyev
>> vlad@atlantech.net
>>
>>> This brings up interesting questions.
>>>
>>> Which network actually forwards your incoming calls while you roam
>>> and your phone is switched on: home or foreign?
>>> Does this depend on the type of the divert (unconditional vs. busy
>>> vs. no-answer)?
>>> When you change your call forwarding options while roaming, does the
>>> foreign network immediately send the new options to the home
>>> network?
>>>
>>> The fact that it's possible to get charged for 2 minutes for an
>>> unanswered call that goes to voicemail tells me that it's the
>>> foreign network that forwards at least for the no-answer divert.
>>> If it were the home network, you wouldn't get charged for the
>>> "round-trip".
>>>
>>> Donald, do you know how this works?
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> \/ L /\ D
>>>
>>>
>>> "Donald Newcomb" <DRNewcomb@attglobal.NOT.net> wrote in message
>>> news:41f06759_4@news1.prserv.net...
>>>
>>> This is not generally true and has never happened to me. It might
>>> happen with some 3rd rate roaming partners who don't properly
>>> deregister roamers, but it should only happen in rare circumstances.
>>> When you switch your phone off, the VLR should deregister your
>>> location with your HLR which should then note that you are "out of
>>> service" Your "out of service" CCF should then send incoming calls
>>> directly to your VM without touching any foreign system. You can
>>> make sure to avoid any problems by forwarding all calls to VM before
>>> powering the phone off. Your call divert settings should work even
>>> when roaming.
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 10:23:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

> have heard it from two people there. They claim that once you turn on
> your phone in the foreign country they send everything there till
> midnight without regard as whether you turned off your phone (they
> didn't specify WHO's midnight though).

Just so we don't confuse the OP or anyone else when you say "turn on
your phone" you mean turn on your phone with the t-mobile sim installed. If
you remove the sim before you leave the US and don't put it back in the
phone till you return then t-mobile will not bill you, even if you use a
prepaid sim in the same phone. In other words what is billed is the sim not
the phone. It may be just bad luck to recieve a roaming charge for turnning
on your phone in the wrong place but why risk it ?
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 11:15:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Yes, exactly. No TMo SIM = No TMo charges. Using a locally purchased PP
SIM is the way to go. You won't get your SMS or incoming calls but you
can check your VM regularly and return calls. Of course you can always
provide the foreign # to whoever needs it.

From:Stanley Reynolds
nospam_stanley_reynolds@yahoo.com

>> have heard it from two people there. They claim that once you turn on
>> your phone in the foreign country they send everything there till
>> midnight without regard as whether you turned off your phone (they
>> didn't specify WHO's midnight though).
>
> Just so we don't confuse the OP or anyone else when you say "turn on
> your phone" you mean turn on your phone with the t-mobile sim
> installed. If you remove the sim before you leave the US and don't
> put it back in the phone till you return then t-mobile will not bill
> you, even if you use a prepaid sim in the same phone. In other words
> what is billed is the sim not the phone. It may be just bad luck to
> recieve a roaming charge for turnning on your phone in the wrong
> place but why risk it ?
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 11:15:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

They were both wrong. Simple as that...

There is NOTHING in the system that has anything to do with midnight. Even
if, would that be midnight in Bucharest, midnight in home area of say NYC,
or system time in Bellevue, WA?

If your handset or device is registered at anytime, and you physically power
the handset off, a flag is set in the system that sets the system to two
settings, one of which is "handset unreachable" and the system will
automatically route all of the calls immediately to the designated
forwarding number.

If that flag is set in the system, it will never even try to find, never try
to ring your handset, and never leave the T-Mobile home network. Period.

Again, it has nothing to do with time zone, local midnight, system midnight
or any such hooey... No matter how many reps or supervisors "told" you...

That is from GSM system technical theory, and was confirmed by a TMobile
Technical Support Engineer.


"BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
news:bvyId.65314$nP1.1315@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Yes, exactly. No TMo SIM = No TMo charges. Using a locally purchased PP
> SIM is the way to go. You won't get your SMS or incoming calls but you
> can check your VM regularly and return calls. Of course you can always
> provide the foreign # to whoever needs it.
>
> From:Stanley Reynolds
> nospam_stanley_reynolds@yahoo.com
>
> >> have heard it from two people there. They claim that once you turn on
> >> your phone in the foreign country they send everything there till
> >> midnight without regard as whether you turned off your phone (they
> >> didn't specify WHO's midnight though).
> >
> > Just so we don't confuse the OP or anyone else when you say "turn on
> > your phone" you mean turn on your phone with the t-mobile sim
> > installed. If you remove the sim before you leave the US and don't
> > put it back in the phone till you return then t-mobile will not bill
> > you, even if you use a prepaid sim in the same phone. In other words
> > what is billed is the sim not the phone. It may be just bad luck to
> > recieve a roaming charge for turnning on your phone in the wrong
> > place but why risk it ?
>
>
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 11:15:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Jym L" <ff1089@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mNmdnQnOVdteXm_cRVn-ug@rcn.net...
> They were both wrong. Simple as that...
If I'am one of the both what I'am I wrong about ?
>
> There is NOTHING in the system that has anything to do with midnight. Even
> if, would that be midnight in Bucharest, midnight in home area of say NYC,
> or system time in Bellevue, WA?

All my charges are stamped with a time as far as billing goes what I pay is
dependant on the time and date of the call.

>
> If your handset or device is registered at anytime, and you physically
power
> the handset off, a flag is set in the system that sets the system to two
> settings, one of which is "handset unreachable" and the system will
> automatically route all of the calls immediately to the designated
> forwarding number.

In a perfect world this is true but what makes you think every system works
the way it should ?

>
> If that flag is set in the system, it will never even try to find, never
try
> to ring your handset, and never leave the T-Mobile home network. Period.
>
> Again, it has nothing to do with time zone, local midnight, system
midnight
> or any such hooey... No matter how many reps or supervisors "told" you...
>
> That is from GSM system technical theory, and was confirmed by a TMobile
> Technical Support Engineer.

It must be true ;-)

I still think if you remove the t-mobile sim before you leave and don't put
it back in till you get back then you will not be billed. If you know
something else as eazy to understand please let us know. Be glad to test
with your phone and money on my next trip :-)


<snip>
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 11:37:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Stanley Reynolds" <nospam_stanley_reynolds@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:UIzId.12133$8W4.9831@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Jym L" <ff1089@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:mNmdnQnOVdteXm_cRVn-ug@rcn.net...
> > They were both wrong. Simple as that...
> If I'am one of the both what I'am I wrong about ?
> >
> > There is NOTHING in the system that has anything to do with midnight.
Even
> > if, would that be midnight in Bucharest, midnight in home area of say
NYC,
> > or system time in Bellevue, WA?
>
> All my charges are stamped with a time as far as billing goes what I pay
is
> dependant on the time and date of the call.

The time reference had nothing to do with "time stamp" for billing...
Referenced to the "until midnight" comment alledged to have been made by teh
customer care rep... which again, regardless of time reference was
incorrect...

> > If your handset or device is registered at anytime, and you physically
> power
> > the handset off, a flag is set in the system that sets the system to two
> > settings, one of which is "handset unreachable" and the system will
> > automatically route all of the calls immediately to the designated
> > forwarding number.
>
> In a perfect world this is true but what makes you think every system
works
> the way it should ?

Well, yes... But, the previous comments about "midnight" et al, were made
generally, as to how the system "works", which was incorrect, so again my
statement was made generally...

> >
> > If that flag is set in the system, it will never even try to find, never
> try
> > to ring your handset, and never leave the T-Mobile home network. Period.
> >
> > Again, it has nothing to do with time zone, local midnight, system
> midnight
> > or any such hooey... No matter how many reps or supervisors "told"
you...
> >
> > That is from GSM system technical theory, and was confirmed by a TMobile
> > Technical Support Engineer.
>
> It must be true ;-)

Well, put it this way... If I pick up my phone and ask them a question, or
address a problem... They have never steered me wrong before... So I will
trust their statements long before any usenet "expert"...


> I still think if you remove the t-mobile sim before you leave and don't
put
> it back in till you get back then you will not be billed. If you know
> something else as eazy to understand please let us know. Be glad to test
> with your phone and money on my next trip :-)

Well, yes regarding removing SIM is true... But, even better, if you dont
want to get charged, leave the device home in first place, in very secure
locked location...

My employer pays my phone bill whenever I roam... My SIM isnt involved,
unless I want it to... And I do use it from time to time for other
reasons...
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 11:37:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Jym L" <ff1089@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8YOdnaIke4g4nW7cRVn-sA@rcn.net...
>
> "Stanley Reynolds" <nospam_stanley_reynolds@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:UIzId.12133$8W4.9831@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "Jym L" <ff1089@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:mNmdnQnOVdteXm_cRVn-ug@rcn.net...
> > > They were both wrong. Simple as that...
> > If I'am one of the both what I'am I wrong about ?
> > >
> > > There is NOTHING in the system that has anything to do with midnight.
> Even
> > > if, would that be midnight in Bucharest, midnight in home area of say
> NYC,
> > > or system time in Bellevue, WA?
> >
> > All my charges are stamped with a time as far as billing goes what I pay
> is
> > dependant on the time and date of the call.
>
> The time reference had nothing to do with "time stamp" for billing...
> Referenced to the "until midnight" comment alledged to have been made by
teh
> customer care rep... which again, regardless of time reference was
> incorrect...
>
Could be incorrect but we all make mistakes just not sure who talked to the
correct person at T-mobile.
Bruce talked to two different people and did get a bill. You talked to
someone else and got a different answer guess if we take a poll of all the
people who should know we may get closer to how it should work but then it
may work different in different countries, one thing is for sure it doesn't
always work as it should.

> > > If your handset or device is registered at anytime, and you physically
> > power
> > > the handset off, a flag is set in the system that sets the system to
two
> > > settings, one of which is "handset unreachable" and the system will
> > > automatically route all of the calls immediately to the designated
> > > forwarding number.
> >
> > In a perfect world this is true but what makes you think every system
> works
> > the way it should ?
>
> Well, yes... But, the previous comments about "midnight" et al, were made
> generally, as to how the system "works", which was incorrect, so again my
> statement was made generally...
>
> > >
> > > If that flag is set in the system, it will never even try to find,
never
> > try
> > > to ring your handset, and never leave the T-Mobile home network.
Period.
> > >
> > > Again, it has nothing to do with time zone, local midnight, system
> > midnight
> > > or any such hooey... No matter how many reps or supervisors "told"
> you...
> > >
> > > That is from GSM system technical theory, and was confirmed by a
TMobile
> > > Technical Support Engineer.
> >
> > It must be true ;-)
>
> Well, put it this way... If I pick up my phone and ask them a question, or
> address a problem... They have never steered me wrong before... So I will
> trust their statements long before any usenet "expert"...

It must be true ;-)

>
>
> > I still think if you remove the t-mobile sim before you leave and don't
> put
> > it back in till you get back then you will not be billed. If you know
> > something else as eazy to understand please let us know. Be glad to test
> > with your phone and money on my next trip :-)
>
> Well, yes regarding removing SIM is true... But, even better, if you dont
> want to get charged, leave the device home in first place, in very secure
> locked location...

So if you agree with me what was I wrong about ?

The OP wished to use his unlocked T-mobile international with prepaid sims
and not pay high roaming fees to T-mobile.
There is no reason to leave the phone at home unless you can not resist
putting the t-mobile sim in the phone while out of the country. Even then if
someone else is paying the bill maybe you care about the cost of roaming.
The prepaid sim will have a local number which maybe good for someone who
doesn't want to pay for a international call to reach you across town.

>
> My employer pays my phone bill whenever I roam... My SIM isnt involved,
> unless I want it to... And I do use it from time to time for other
> reasons...
>
Next salary review you can point out the money you saved the company using
prepaid sims and offer to write it up as a guide for your company's other
travelers. I had a budy that said "let the bosses take the loses" but he
is looking for work now.
Anonymous
January 23, 2005 1:58:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

> Could be incorrect but we all make mistakes just not sure who talked to
the
> correct person at T-mobile.

> Bruce talked to two different people and did get a bill. You talked to
> someone else and got a different answer guess if we take a poll of all the
> people who should know we may get closer to how it should work but then it
> may work different in different countries, one thing is for sure it
doesn't
> always work as it should.

I have a call in to my friend, will see and post what he responds, if I
can...

> > Well, put it this way... If I pick up my phone and ask them a question,
or
> > address a problem... They have never steered me wrong before... So I
will
> > trust their statements long before any usenet "expert"...
>
> It must be true ;-)

I KNOW my friend, and I KNOW his overall reputation.


> The OP wished to use his unlocked T-mobile international with prepaid sims
> and not pay high roaming fees to T-mobile.

Yes. However, it then headed off into "generalizations"

> There is no reason to leave the phone at home unless you can not resist
> putting the t-mobile sim in the phone while out of the country. Even then
if
> someone else is paying the bill maybe you care about the cost of roaming.
> The prepaid sim will have a local number which maybe good for someone who
> doesn't want to pay for a international call to reach you across town.

Having explored this option, it depends on many factors... It primarily
depends on how much you expect to need your phone while you are roaming, and
depends on whom is calling...

For example, if you want it priamrily to stay in touch with your home base
in US (personal or business), this shifts your contact information to a
number that must be noted in files so that folks can reach you... It shifts
any costs (in addition to the Prepaid SIM) to the folks in the States who
need to get in touch with you. So it then becomes matter of how bad folks
need to get in touch with you...

> > My employer pays my phone bill whenever I roam... My SIM isnt involved,
> > unless I want it to... And I do use it from time to time for other
> > reasons...
> >
> Next salary review you can point out the money you saved the company using
> prepaid sims and offer to write it up as a guide for your company's other
> travelers. I had a budy that said "let the bosses take the loses" but he
> is looking for work now.

Considering that my company had looked at that, and the extra costs involved
including purchase, extra time to figure out what number I am using now to
get in touch with me, are more prohibitive then paying international roaming
charges.

And just for the record, I do very well on my "salary reviews"
Anonymous
January 23, 2005 6:50:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

OK, I can certainly appreciate that the reps I spoke to may be wrong -
they usually are. So does anyone here have another explanation as to
why I would see thoses charges even when the phone was turned off? To
provide a little more detail, this happened to me last summer in Asia
and again this winter in Central America. Both times we were on a
cruise and upon arrival in port in the morning I would turn on my phone
to check for VM.
On each cruise I did that in two or three ports and then immediately
turned off the phone and put it back in the safe. In all cases, later
in the day when the phone was off and in a steel safe, there was billing
for incoming & outgoing calls in the same or subsequent minute, ONLY on
the days that I checked VM. No calls were billed on days that I did not
turn the phone on. So what's causing that?



From:Jym L
ff1089@hotmail.com

> They were both wrong. Simple as that...
>
> There is NOTHING in the system that has anything to do with midnight.
> Even if, would that be midnight in Bucharest, midnight in home area
> of say NYC, or system time in Bellevue, WA?
>
> If your handset or device is registered at anytime, and you
> physically power the handset off, a flag is set in the system that
> sets the system to two settings, one of which is "handset
> unreachable" and the system will automatically route all of the calls
> immediately to the designated forwarding number.
>
> If that flag is set in the system, it will never even try to find,
> never try to ring your handset, and never leave the T-Mobile home
> network. Period.
>
> Again, it has nothing to do with time zone, local midnight, system
> midnight or any such hooey... No matter how many reps or supervisors
> "told" you...
>
> That is from GSM system technical theory, and was confirmed by a
> TMobile Technical Support Engineer.
>
>
> "BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
> news:bvyId.65314$nP1.1315@twister.socal.rr.com...
>> Yes, exactly. No TMo SIM = No TMo charges. Using a locally purchased
>> PP SIM is the way to go. You won't get your SMS or incoming calls
>> but you can check your VM regularly and return calls. Of course you
>> can always provide the foreign # to whoever needs it.
>>
>> From:Stanley Reynolds
>> nospam_stanley_reynolds@yahoo.com
>>
>>>> have heard it from two people there. They claim that once you turn
>>>> on your phone in the foreign country they send everything there
>>>> till midnight without regard as whether you turned off your phone
>>>> (they didn't specify WHO's midnight though).
>>>
>>> Just so we don't confuse the OP or anyone else when you say "turn on
>>> your phone" you mean turn on your phone with the t-mobile sim
>>> installed. If you remove the sim before you leave the US and don't
>>> put it back in the phone till you return then t-mobile will not bill
>>> you, even if you use a prepaid sim in the same phone. In other words
>>> what is billed is the sim not the phone. It may be just bad luck to
>>> recieve a roaming charge for turnning on your phone in the wrong
>>> place but why risk it ?
January 23, 2005 9:25:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

The phone registers on a tower and doesn't deregister properly.
Eventually the registration expires. This likely varies from network to
network.



In article <P9FId.63812$Ew6.40945@twister.socal.rr.com>, BruceR
<brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote:

> OK, I can certainly appreciate that the reps I spoke to may be wrong -
> they usually are. So does anyone here have another explanation as to
> why I would see thoses charges even when the phone was turned off? To
> provide a little more detail, this happened to me last summer in Asia
> and again this winter in Central America. Both times we were on a
> cruise and upon arrival in port in the morning I would turn on my phone
> to check for VM.
> On each cruise I did that in two or three ports and then immediately
> turned off the phone and put it back in the safe. In all cases, later
> in the day when the phone was off and in a steel safe, there was billing
> for incoming & outgoing calls in the same or subsequent minute, ONLY on
> the days that I checked VM. No calls were billed on days that I did not
> turn the phone on. So what's causing that?
>
>
>
> From:Jym L
> ff1089@hotmail.com
>
> > They were both wrong. Simple as that...
> >
> > There is NOTHING in the system that has anything to do with midnight.
> > Even if, would that be midnight in Bucharest, midnight in home area
> > of say NYC, or system time in Bellevue, WA?
> >
> > If your handset or device is registered at anytime, and you
> > physically power the handset off, a flag is set in the system that
> > sets the system to two settings, one of which is "handset
> > unreachable" and the system will automatically route all of the calls
> > immediately to the designated forwarding number.
> >
> > If that flag is set in the system, it will never even try to find,
> > never try to ring your handset, and never leave the T-Mobile home
> > network. Period.
> >
> > Again, it has nothing to do with time zone, local midnight, system
> > midnight or any such hooey... No matter how many reps or supervisors
> > "told" you...
> >
> > That is from GSM system technical theory, and was confirmed by a
> > TMobile Technical Support Engineer.
> >
> >
> > "BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
> > news:bvyId.65314$nP1.1315@twister.socal.rr.com...
> >> Yes, exactly. No TMo SIM = No TMo charges. Using a locally purchased
> >> PP SIM is the way to go. You won't get your SMS or incoming calls
> >> but you can check your VM regularly and return calls. Of course you
> >> can always provide the foreign # to whoever needs it.
> >>
> >> From:Stanley Reynolds
> >> nospam_stanley_reynolds@yahoo.com
> >>
> >>>> have heard it from two people there. They claim that once you turn
> >>>> on your phone in the foreign country they send everything there
> >>>> till midnight without regard as whether you turned off your phone
> >>>> (they didn't specify WHO's midnight though).
> >>>
> >>> Just so we don't confuse the OP or anyone else when you say "turn on
> >>> your phone" you mean turn on your phone with the t-mobile sim
> >>> installed. If you remove the sim before you leave the US and don't
> >>> put it back in the phone till you return then t-mobile will not bill
> >>> you, even if you use a prepaid sim in the same phone. In other words
> >>> what is billed is the sim not the phone. It may be just bad luck to
> >>> recieve a roaming charge for turnning on your phone in the wrong
> >>> place but why risk it ?
>
>
Anonymous
January 23, 2005 9:36:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

That fits with what the TMo reps explained except they seem to think
that midnight (somewhere) is the expiration point. So, is there a way
to force a proper deregistration? That would solve the porblem of the
billing issues.

From:steve
reply@news.group

> The phone registers on a tower and doesn't deregister properly.
> Eventually the registration expires. This likely varies from network
> to network.
>
>
>
> In article <P9FId.63812$Ew6.40945@twister.socal.rr.com>, BruceR
> <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote:
>
>> OK, I can certainly appreciate that the reps I spoke to may be wrong
>> - they usually are. So does anyone here have another explanation as
>> to why I would see thoses charges even when the phone was turned
>> off? To provide a little more detail, this happened to me last
>> summer in Asia and again this winter in Central America. Both times
>> we were on a cruise and upon arrival in port in the morning I would
>> turn on my phone to check for VM.
>> On each cruise I did that in two or three ports and then immediately
>> turned off the phone and put it back in the safe. In all cases,
>> later in the day when the phone was off and in a steel safe, there
>> was billing for incoming & outgoing calls in the same or subsequent
>> minute, ONLY on the days that I checked VM. No calls were billed on
>> days that I did not turn the phone on. So what's causing that?
>>
>>
>>
>> From:Jym L
>> ff1089@hotmail.com
>>
>>> They were both wrong. Simple as that...
>>>
>>> There is NOTHING in the system that has anything to do with
>>> midnight. Even if, would that be midnight in Bucharest, midnight in
>>> home area of say NYC, or system time in Bellevue, WA?
>>>
>>> If your handset or device is registered at anytime, and you
>>> physically power the handset off, a flag is set in the system that
>>> sets the system to two settings, one of which is "handset
>>> unreachable" and the system will automatically route all of the
>>> calls immediately to the designated forwarding number.
>>>
>>> If that flag is set in the system, it will never even try to find,
>>> never try to ring your handset, and never leave the T-Mobile home
>>> network. Period.
>>>
>>> Again, it has nothing to do with time zone, local midnight, system
>>> midnight or any such hooey... No matter how many reps or supervisors
>>> "told" you...
>>>
>>> That is from GSM system technical theory, and was confirmed by a
>>> TMobile Technical Support Engineer.
>>>
>>>
>>> "BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
>>> news:bvyId.65314$nP1.1315@twister.socal.rr.com...
>>>> Yes, exactly. No TMo SIM = No TMo charges. Using a locally
>>>> purchased PP SIM is the way to go. You won't get your SMS or
>>>> incoming calls but you can check your VM regularly and return
>>>> calls. Of course you can always provide the foreign # to whoever
>>>> needs it.
>>>>
>>>> From:Stanley Reynolds
>>>> nospam_stanley_reynolds@yahoo.com
>>>>
>>>>>> have heard it from two people there. They claim that once you
>>>>>> turn on your phone in the foreign country they send everything
>>>>>> there till midnight without regard as whether you turned off
>>>>>> your phone (they didn't specify WHO's midnight though).
>>>>>
>>>>> Just so we don't confuse the OP or anyone else when you say "turn
>>>>> on your phone" you mean turn on your phone with the t-mobile sim
>>>>> installed. If you remove the sim before you leave the US and don't
>>>>> put it back in the phone till you return then t-mobile will not
>>>>> bill you, even if you use a prepaid sim in the same phone. In
>>>>> other words what is billed is the sim not the phone. It may be
>>>>> just bad luck to recieve a roaming charge for turnning on your
>>>>> phone in the wrong place but why risk it ?
January 23, 2005 9:57:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

I suppose you could activate unconditional forwarding. The
deregistration bit was just a guess.

It doesn't seem worth the trouble, really.

s


In article <vBHId.75196$gd.73498@twister.socal.rr.com>, BruceR
<brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote:

> That fits with what the TMo reps explained except they seem to think
> that midnight (somewhere) is the expiration point. So, is there a way
> to force a proper deregistration? That would solve the porblem of the
> billing issues.
>
> From:steve
> reply@news.group
>
> > The phone registers on a tower and doesn't deregister properly.
> > Eventually the registration expires. This likely varies from network
> > to network.
> >
> >
> >
> > In article <P9FId.63812$Ew6.40945@twister.socal.rr.com>, BruceR
> > <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote:
> >
> >> OK, I can certainly appreciate that the reps I spoke to may be wrong
> >> - they usually are. So does anyone here have another explanation as
> >> to why I would see thoses charges even when the phone was turned
> >> off? To provide a little more detail, this happened to me last
> >> summer in Asia and again this winter in Central America. Both times
> >> we were on a cruise and upon arrival in port in the morning I would
> >> turn on my phone to check for VM.
> >> On each cruise I did that in two or three ports and then immediately
> >> turned off the phone and put it back in the safe. In all cases,
> >> later in the day when the phone was off and in a steel safe, there
> >> was billing for incoming & outgoing calls in the same or subsequent
> >> minute, ONLY on the days that I checked VM. No calls were billed on
> >> days that I did not turn the phone on. So what's causing that?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From:Jym L
> >> ff1089@hotmail.com
> >>
> >>> They were both wrong. Simple as that...
> >>>
> >>> There is NOTHING in the system that has anything to do with
> >>> midnight. Even if, would that be midnight in Bucharest, midnight in
> >>> home area of say NYC, or system time in Bellevue, WA?
> >>>
> >>> If your handset or device is registered at anytime, and you
> >>> physically power the handset off, a flag is set in the system that
> >>> sets the system to two settings, one of which is "handset
> >>> unreachable" and the system will automatically route all of the
> >>> calls immediately to the designated forwarding number.
> >>>
> >>> If that flag is set in the system, it will never even try to find,
> >>> never try to ring your handset, and never leave the T-Mobile home
> >>> network. Period.
> >>>
> >>> Again, it has nothing to do with time zone, local midnight, system
> >>> midnight or any such hooey... No matter how many reps or supervisors
> >>> "told" you...
> >>>
> >>> That is from GSM system technical theory, and was confirmed by a
> >>> TMobile Technical Support Engineer.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:bvyId.65314$nP1.1315@twister.socal.rr.com...
> >>>> Yes, exactly. No TMo SIM = No TMo charges. Using a locally
> >>>> purchased PP SIM is the way to go. You won't get your SMS or
> >>>> incoming calls but you can check your VM regularly and return
> >>>> calls. Of course you can always provide the foreign # to whoever
> >>>> needs it.
> >>>>
> >>>> From:Stanley Reynolds
> >>>> nospam_stanley_reynolds@yahoo.com
> >>>>
> >>>>>> have heard it from two people there. They claim that once you
> >>>>>> turn on your phone in the foreign country they send everything
> >>>>>> there till midnight without regard as whether you turned off
> >>>>>> your phone (they didn't specify WHO's midnight though).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just so we don't confuse the OP or anyone else when you say "turn
> >>>>> on your phone" you mean turn on your phone with the t-mobile sim
> >>>>> installed. If you remove the sim before you leave the US and don't
> >>>>> put it back in the phone till you return then t-mobile will not
> >>>>> bill you, even if you use a prepaid sim in the same phone. In
> >>>>> other words what is billed is the sim not the phone. It may be
> >>>>> just bad luck to recieve a roaming charge for turnning on your
> >>>>> phone in the wrong place but why risk it ?
>
>
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 6:09:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
news:bvyId.65314$nP1.1315@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Yes, exactly. No TMo SIM = No TMo charges. Using a locally purchased PP
> SIM is the way to go. You won't get your SMS or incoming calls but you can
> check your VM regularly and return calls. Of course you can always provide
> the foreign # to whoever needs it.
>

I've been to the UK 5 times and Kenya once in the last 2 years. I took my SE
T300 (unlocked, of course) and sometimes had my US T-Mo SIM in the handset.
No charge. Not once. Never received an SMS, never sent one, no voicemail
notifications received. FYI, the last trip was end of Sept 2004. In the UK,
I used a BTCellenet/O2 SIM (PAYG/pre-paid) and did not get any SMS/Vmail
from T-Mo (of course i shouldn't). And as Bruce has mentioned, always gave
my foreign SIM number to family, close friends and the boss. The SIM is the
brain, the handset the body; you need both to make a call, unless it is 911.
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 4:27:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm.carriers.voicestream,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

I think the dumb rep thought that we was talking about using a prepaid
CALLINGCARD for the international leg of a call where the local leg was
placed with a roaming T-Mobile phone.

Of course, this theory would have made his entire point of the call (e.g.
unlocking the phone) meaningless.

Stu

"Joseph" <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7n62v0d7fg8fgp69843hu5girp2t351sf4@4ax.com...
> On 20 Jan 2005 06:41:35 -0800, "Sam" <smartboy123us@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>I have t-mobile service. I am travelling to Asia and i want to use my
>>GSM phone there with local prepaid card.
>>I called t-mobile for unlocked code, they said they will give me in 48
>>hours.. that's good, BUT they also told me when i use prepaid card in
>>Asia, i will also be using my airtime minutes!!!! IS THAT
>>TRUE?????????????
>
> That's absolutely positively false! Using another SIM you will have
> nothing to do with T-Mobile.
>
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
!