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AMD giving away engr samples for retail?

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December 19, 2007 12:23:03 AM

Word has come down from The almighty Inq that AMD is delivering free Barcelona engr samples to customers with the promise that they will get retail chips to replace them with.

We can perhaps assume that these are B3 samples smuggled out of Russia on the back of a pregnant camel.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/18/amd-starts-shipping-quad-cores
a b à CPUs
December 19, 2007 12:41:41 AM

I'd take one just so I can say I've got an engineering sample of anything :) 
December 19, 2007 1:01:25 AM

That would be cool. But then free always has been.
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December 19, 2007 1:04:45 AM

BaronMatrix said:
Word has come down from The almighty Inq that AMD is delivering free Barcelona engr samples to customers with the promise that they will get retail chips to replace them with.

We can perhaps assume that these are B3 samples smuggled out of Russia on the back of a pregnant camel.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/18/amd-starts-shipping-quad-cores


Nope, they are B2 samples.... Note the comment about virtualization. Guess giving them away is better than using them for landfill.
December 19, 2007 1:48:27 AM

It would be cool to have an engineering sample, they are something I have always wanted to get.
December 19, 2007 1:57:35 AM

croc said:
Nope, they are B2 samples.... Note the comment about virtualization. Guess giving them away is better than using them for landfill.



Crap that spoiled my joke.
a b à CPUs
December 19, 2007 2:16:01 AM

I want to get my hands on one :cry: 
December 19, 2007 3:47:26 AM

BaronMatrix said:
Crap that spoiled my joke.


But hey... If you don't use virtualization, or a DB that can use all four cores and don't expect much of an overclock... For free, not a bad deal.
December 19, 2007 4:17:45 AM

Hey, not bad at all! AMD is doing something charitable for once...not that Intel ever has :D 
December 19, 2007 8:25:04 AM

So how do I get one of these?
December 19, 2007 9:51:53 AM

I've never heard of a chip making knowingly sending out defective CPUs with a promise to replace them later.

Any of the AMD people that are trying to say the errata isn't a big issue need to read this; because that obviously isn't the case.

Q4 numbers are going to be ugly.


Interesting find Baron, thanks for posting.
December 19, 2007 10:17:19 AM

TC, What does defective mean in your mind? And why would anyone TAKE a DEFECTIVE chip?
a b à CPUs
December 19, 2007 11:11:51 AM

Now thats funny. Mrsbytch calling somebody a fanboy. Baron, BECAUSE THEY ARE GETTING THEM FOR FREE. If AMD wanted to ship me free cpus ill take them in a heartbeat. Retail/ES samples/Bugged ill take them. I dont know how this would work. AMD sends you a chip kinda like netflix or something? Here is your cpu its free but when the retail ones are out you can buy that one. If the samples are working why would anybody by the retail.
December 19, 2007 11:31:41 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Any of the AMD people that are trying to say the errata isn't a big issue need to read this; because that obviously isn't the case.


Need to read what? Ive read 99.9% of users will never experience a problem with the phenom. Problems are only in virtulization. I wouldnt call that defective. You get an A for effort though fanboy.



Good job for NOT reading. They're giving away Opteron engineering samples. I do see some heavy-load server applications and virtualization being used in a lot of companies today!
December 19, 2007 2:37:13 PM

BaronMatrix said:
TC, What does defective mean in your mind? And why would anyone TAKE a DEFECTIVE chip?



You're right. If the chips were defective they'd have to make some kind of work around or fix that would probably have some kind of trade off. It the chips were defective they'd probably be offering free upgrades to non-defective chips.

Oh wait... They are doing that stuff.

Baron, AMD admits they have problems with the chips, it's ok for you to admit it too.
December 19, 2007 3:19:14 PM

I can see one bit of good reasoning in this give away, especially since these are Opteron chips. If a company gets one free, it has to buy a new motherboard to use it to its full potential. Once that it has made that investment, it will be more likely to buy a B3 stepping chip when those become available. Thus AMD gets customers and ends up winning. And since these are engineering samples of a defective chip which would be thrown away anyway, it really isn't costing AMD anything more than the shipping charge to give them away. As I look at it in this light, it becomes a very good idea to give away these chips.

Where do I sign up for a free chip? :sol: 
December 19, 2007 3:21:53 PM

Yeah how do we get these chips? me wants free opteron! :bounce: 
December 19, 2007 3:47:18 PM

Its a shame I don't live in the US. As soon as the B3 stepping came out I would be down at AMD like at shot routing round the bins for the hundreds ES chips thrown out.

Actually I might be in luck they should have some over at Dresden. I could go for a road trip to pick up some Phenoms and stop by the Nurbergring. Then I can manufactor a case out of ES Phenoms. LOL.
a b à CPUs
December 19, 2007 9:54:23 PM

DELL and HP are the customers.
December 19, 2007 9:56:18 PM

randomizer said:
DELL and HP are the customers.


Ah, so that's a hint not to buy a Phenom powered computer from Dell or HP, is it not?
a b à CPUs
December 19, 2007 10:01:15 PM

It is. But seriously, don't you think the OEMs will chew these up even if they were giving them to end user customers? There isn't enough of them (the CPUs that is).
December 19, 2007 10:05:07 PM

Most likely. I doubt if there were all that many to start with. I'd expect most samples were either destroyed during the testing process or are still being held for further testing. Got to find out how to fix the errata bug some way, after all.
a b à CPUs
December 19, 2007 10:06:03 PM

So how do I get one?
a b à CPUs
December 19, 2007 10:08:28 PM

Buy DELL. Not a DELL, the company.
December 19, 2007 10:09:03 PM

Shadow703793 said:
So how do I get one?


Somehow convince AMD that you're from Dell or Hp and that you need one for testing on a motherboard that's being considered for use. Make sure you don't leave a return address from Intel either.

a b à CPUs
December 19, 2007 10:12:02 PM

^Thanks, I'll try this during Christmas break....hope that Dell ppl are half a sleep. :) 
a b à CPUs
December 19, 2007 11:05:01 PM

sailer said:
Somehow convince AMD that you're from Dell or Hp and that you need one for testing on a motherboard that's being considered for use. Make sure you don't leave a return address from Intel either.

Good old fake emails :) 
December 19, 2007 11:12:23 PM

I don't think AMD would mind if someone broke into the FAB and stole a load of ES K10's. It would save them the hassle of throwing them away. Now where did I put my gloves and hoody?
December 19, 2007 11:22:30 PM

TechnologyCoordinator said:
You're right. If the chips were defective they'd have to make some kind of work around or fix that would probably have some kind of trade off. It the chips were defective they'd probably be offering free upgrades to non-defective chips.

Oh wait... They are doing that stuff.

Baron, AMD admits they have problems with the chips, it's ok for you to admit it too.



Yes, they offer a workaround for a problem that no reviewer has seen. Yes, they are making sure that people can take advantage of the upgrade to quad core with as little pain as possible. I guess the word defective, to me means that as soon as you turn it on it breaks. Not - is has yet to be reproduced outside of the lab.


That's like some of the bugs that people have reported to me, where I can't repro them and there are no definitive steps for reproduction. In my mind, it doesn't exist.
December 19, 2007 11:37:40 PM

BaronMatrix said:
Yes, they offer a workaround for a problem that no reviewer has seen. Yes, they are making sure that people can take advantage of the upgrade to quad core with as little pain as possible. I guess the word defective, to me means that as soon as you turn it on it breaks. Not - is has yet to be reproduced outside of the lab.


That's like some of the bugs that people have reported to me, where I can't repro them and there are no definitive steps for reproduction. In my mind, it doesn't exist.


Our server engineers have reproduced it, it does exist. Run virtual machines on one of these, or a DB that can make use of all cores, they lock up. They don't do a kernel panic and re-start, they lock up. No OK prompt... Requires a hard boot to re-start.

Relatively easyto reproduce, just get one and run, say VMWare ESX on all four cores, with one or two users per core. Or Oracle with even a small DB, and do a few SQL queries.
a b à CPUs
December 19, 2007 11:49:54 PM

And if it's that easy, they may not be defective by everyones definition, but they are useless.
December 20, 2007 12:40:02 AM

BaronMatrix said:
Yes, they offer a workaround for a problem that no reviewer has seen. Yes, they are making sure that people can take advantage of the upgrade to quad core with as little pain as possible. I guess the word defective, to me means that as soon as you turn it on it breaks. Not - is has yet to be reproduced outside of the lab.


That's like some of the bugs that people have reported to me, where I can't repro them and there are no definitive steps for reproduction. In my mind, it doesn't exist.


Im sorry Baron, but you are not William Jefferson Clinton. You do not get to redefine a word to alter its meaning in such a manner as to suit your desires, to play spin control or to alter perceptions.

de·fec·tive [di-fek-tiv]
–adjective
1. having a defect or flaw; faulty; imperfect: a defective machine.
2. Psychology. characterized by subnormal intelligence or behavior.
3. Grammar. (of an inflected word or its inflection) lacking one or more of the inflected forms proper to most words of the same class in the language, as English must, which occurs only in the present tense.
–noun 4. a defective person or thing.

Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Nowhere in the Random House Dictionary does "...break as soon as you turn it on..", or any synonomous word/phrase appear. The definitions which do appear, apply. The only 2 ways the description 'defective' would not apply, is if the TLB cache flaw did not exist, or AMD intentionally designed the TLB cache flaw into the Phenom.


December 20, 2007 1:07:12 AM

turpit said:
Im sorry Baron, but you are not William Jefferson Clinton. You do not get to redefine a word to alter its meaning in such a manner as to suit your desires, to play spin control or to alter perceptions.

de·fec·tive [di-fek-tiv]
–adjective
1. having a defect or flaw; faulty; imperfect: a defective machine.
2. Psychology. characterized by subnormal intelligence or behavior.
3. Grammar. (of an inflected word or its inflection) lacking one or more of the inflected forms proper to most words of the same class in the language, as English must, which occurs only in the present tense.
–noun 4. a defective person or thing.

Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Nowhere in the Random House Dictionary does "...break as soon as you turn it on..", or any synonomous word/phrase appear. The definitions which do appear, apply. The only 2 ways the description 'defective' would not apply, is if the TLB cache flaw did not exist, or AMD intentionally designed the TLB cache flaw into the Phenom.



I'm sorry if you feel that Newegg is defrauding people by selling defective chips. I'm sorry that "10s of 1000s" are in supercomputers. I hate that this is all some kind of turn-on to certain individuals.

Around the survivors a perimeter has been created.

ALL HAIL THE DUOPOLY!!
December 20, 2007 1:09:09 AM

croc said:
Our server engineers have reproduced it, it does exist. Run virtual machines on one of these, or a DB that can make use of all cores, they lock up. They don't do a kernel panic and re-start, they lock up. No OK prompt... Requires a hard boot to re-start.

Relatively easyto reproduce, just get one and run, say VMWare ESX on all four cores, with one or two users per core. Or Oracle with even a small DB, and do a few SQL queries.



So, AMD knew before you the workloads that would be affected and duly informed partners? I guess it's too bad that they couldn't get Fab 38 running 65nm lines sooner. That would have alleviated the "supply crunch."
December 20, 2007 1:13:05 AM

BARON.

AMD ADMITS THE DEFECT AND IS MAKING A PATCH FOR IT.

YOU CANNOT DENY IT, YOUR HEROS ADMIT IT.
December 20, 2007 1:17:44 AM

The only "supply crunch" going on is finding enough landfill space to stick all these paperweights.
a b à CPUs
December 20, 2007 1:53:57 AM

My house is open for them all!
December 20, 2007 3:26:59 AM

BaronMatrix said:
I'm sorry if you feel that Newegg is defrauding people by selling defective chips. I'm sorry that "10s of 1000s" are in supercomputers. I hate that this is all some kind of turn-on to certain individuals.

Around the survivors a perimeter has been created.

ALL HAIL THE DUOPOLY!!

This is not a "turn on", this is not about how many have or have not been sold, this is not about pithy star wars quotes :sarcastic:  nor is this about changing the subject. It is about truth and lies. You berate Intel for Netburst's defects and their marketing lies, yet you will defend AMD lies and failures to the point of lying. The chips are defective. AMD lied. It is that simple. How you, I or anyone else feels is completely and totally irrelevant up to the point that an individual allows their feelings to overwhelm their judement and dictate their actions. Allowing your feelings to overwhelm your judement and dictate your actions by making excuses, changing definitions to "soften" the impact, seguing off on tangents to divert attention from the issues does not change the facts of Phenom. It is Defective. AMD lied.
a b à CPUs
December 20, 2007 3:44:31 AM

AMD didn't lie, they told their truth.
December 20, 2007 4:39:48 AM

randomizer said:
AMD didn't lie, they told their truth.


Ah yes. How something really is vs how it is presented

December 20, 2007 9:18:07 PM

Turpit, is that a Mrs Bytch family portrait?

LOL
a b à CPUs
December 20, 2007 9:19:02 PM

Are you exit2dos in disguise?
December 20, 2007 11:11:48 PM

Did you know Brad Paisley wrote the AMD song?

I work down at The Pizza Pit
And I drive an old Hyundai
I still live with my mom and dad
I'm five foot three and overweight
I'm a sci fi fanatic, mild asthmatic
Never been to second base
But there's a whole 'nother me
That you need to see
Go check out Myspace.

'Cause online I'm out in Hollywood
I'm six foot five and I look damn good
I drive a Maserati, I'm a black belt in karate
And I love a good glass of wine
It turns girls on that I'm mysterious
I tell 'em I don't want nothing serious
'Cause even on a slow day I can have a three-way chat
With two women at one time.

Does Hector drive a Hyundai? :) 
a b à CPUs
December 20, 2007 11:46:19 PM

^ :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
December 21, 2007 12:03:30 AM

I for sure do not run servers or do anything intense than gaming,most people including most here who are still talking about the TLB do no more than that.CROC,in your line of work ,the TLB is with out a doubt something you cant ignore.You are the first to validate the question I asked on some other post,thank you.For the average gamer the errata does not applies no matter how you spin it .I see very few people in this post thats objective,tending to pick sides and blow things way out of proportion.98 % of ppl who buys the Phenom will not see this bug,most that have bought are happy with it.How many here has the Phenom? If do lets talk about it.lastly,AMD had to tell about the imperfection which goes out to a select few
a b à CPUs
December 21, 2007 12:08:58 AM

Yea... but... at least until the recent price drops, Phenom sucked at price/performance. I mean, in Australia, the Phaom 9500 was the same price as the Q6600. It's got a bit nicer fortunately, but AMD are probably feeling the burn of low prices. The bug is irrelevant (though still serious if reproducible) for most people, but I'd still take the better price/performance of C2Q any day.
December 21, 2007 12:19:34 AM

@ro3dog- For myself, I use my computer for business as well as gaming, so a cpu bug could be a problem. That said, so far as I've seen, this bug isn't that serious, or at least not serious enough by itself to keep me from buying a Phenom. More important has been a price that is too high for its performance and the lack of being able to overclock it decently. The recent reading I've done about the Phenom BE has indicated that overclocking is possible for that chip, so it now looks more attractive, especially since it isn't supposed to cost anything extra. As a result, I'll be taking a closer look at it next week, as well as its availability.
December 21, 2007 5:24:23 AM

ro3dog said:
I for sure do not run servers or do anything intense than gaming,most people including most here who are still talking about the TLB do no more than that.CROC,in your line of work ,the TLB is with out a doubt something you cant ignore.You are the first to validate the question I asked on some other post,thank you.For the average gamer the errata does not applies no matter how you spin it .I see very few people in this post thats objective,tending to pick sides and blow things way out of proportion.98 % of ppl who buys the Phenom will not see this bug,most that have bought are happy with it.How many here has the Phenom? If do lets talk about it.lastly,AMD had to tell about the imperfection which goes out to a select few


Well, consider these things: It is by no means any secret that most if not all current Uarchs on the market have or have had some form of flaw. This includes Intel's much vaunted C2D. There are fixes for these problems. The E6600 I purchased last year was the first retail stepping, with a known bug, for which OS patchs were written. Intel did not pull those off the market, and there have been no reports (except for a certain sour grapes smear site's conspiracy theories)of problems. Personally I have never had a problem with the one I purchased, and I use it for 2D/3D graphics, video editing/recording, CD and DVD ripping/converting, and the occasional game, just to name a few, several of which load the CPU fully.
Now consider the old FDIV bug---bad enough that Intel in fact had to recall those chips.
Now, consider this: AMD pulled the Barcelonas and the Phenoms 9700s...not the retailers

With the exception of the few rabid fanboys of course, since the Phenom release no has been saying that AMD didnt 'exagerrate' their claims, nor that they failed to meet them on Phenom as well as some other instances (QFX, Brisbane clock ramp, etc)

Now consider AMDs current stock prices, and the impact of the price war on their margins/finances

Now, I am going to assume you concur, at least in part that:
-Most modern CPUs have some form of flaw/error/bug
-Most modern CPU have some form of workaround (BIOS update, OS patch, microcode update) that overcomes or circumvents these problems transparently...that is with no significant negative impact.
-Most modern CPUs can and have been successfully marketed with said bugs, and this has been accomplished courtesy of software workarounds
-AMD has been doing some fibbing this past year.
-AMD is experiancing financially difficulties, losing money, and needs very much to increase thier product margins.
-AMD has no high end offering, and their competive mid range line is still based on 90nm
If you do concur with the above, even if only in part, then ask yourself this: Why would AMD pull any of their flagship Uarch products? Why are you concluding that the TLB problem was so minor that '98% of the people who buy Phenoms will not see it'. Who told you it was minor? AMD? The 'Fanboys' here? Why would AMD, who desperately needs this product on the market, at the highest margins they can successfully market it, pull their flagship retail model (the 2.4 GHz 9700) and put a stop ship on all the server varients to all except those who know of and can circumvent the problem? If it is true geusstimate that 98% of purchasers would not have a problem, IMO, Id say thats a great success rate....'Phenom-inal' in fact. So why pull the chips?????
Methinks there is something more to the TLB issue, or something else in addition to the TLB issue that AMD is not telling us about. Given the accuracy/truthfulness in AMD statements the past year (not to mention the fanboys) plus AMDs desperate need to get higher margins to stem the rate of cash loss, and the need to start building excess cash to pay for the new fab/old fab updates,/stockpile cash for the $2.2 billion in Senior Notes due to mature in 4 years, if Phenom/Barcelona was 'good enough' for 98%, why would they have pulled it rather than just issuing the updates/workarounds? If the TLB is the only problem, and would only effect 2% of the purchasers, IMO, I dont think AMD would have pulled the skus...its just not logical.

Oh, ask yourself one more thing....how many people do you know who have actually bought one? The two reviews Ive read from actual purchasers (nestled in among the dozens of fanbor non-owner "r0xors the 411" 'reviews' :sarcastic:  ) both used the same word....."dissapointed". I have yet to see a single owner pop up here.
a b à CPUs
December 21, 2007 5:56:39 AM

I'm out of breath just reading that. You make some good points that's for sure, especially regarding AMDs need to get some chips sold and the seemingly illogical move of pulling it's flagship chips for a "minor" problem.
a b à CPUs
December 21, 2007 10:50:06 PM

ro3dog said:
I for sure do not run servers or do anything intense than gaming,most people including most here who are still talking about the TLB do no more than that.CROC,in your line of work ,the TLB is with out a doubt something you cant ignore.You are the first to validate the question I asked on some other post,thank you.For the average gamer the errata does not applies no matter how you spin it .I see very few people in this post thats objective,tending to pick sides and blow things way out of proportion.98 % of ppl who buys the Phenom will not see this bug,most that have bought are happy with it.How many here has the Phenom? If do lets talk about it.lastly,AMD had to tell about the imperfection which goes out to a select few



Actually this TLB effects the PC quite a bit. Just try Photoshop (CS3), Prime95, Vagas Studio, or SolidWorks. After about 5hr+ of work in any of the software listed the PC crashes. It doesn't effect gaming because most of the work is done by the GPU.
!