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Underclocking arguement continues.....

Last response: in Overclocking
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if you guys remember that last time me and Evilonirigi argue about underclocking a CPU will it post any harming effect to the mobo or CPU.and all of you agreed with me.

but at the end i emailed Intel and got some very interesting reply.
here they are!!!

Hello Alex, Thank you for contacting Intel(R) Customer Support. I understand that you want to know if by underclocking the processor will void the warranty of it. The processor needs to be running at the default voltage settings provided by the motherboard BIOS, the voltage settings for the Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Quad processor Q6600 should be from 0.85V to 1.5V as showing on the following website:http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLA... Manually forcing the voltage of the processor to run at a specific value will make it run out of specifications voiding the warranty of the processor. Please do not hesitate to contact us again if you need further assistance.

Sincerely, Adolfo S.Intel(R) Customer Support

Hello Alex, Thank you for contacting Intel(R) Customer Support. By overclocking or downclocking the processor the warranty will be voided. Keep in mind that the options on the BIOS are provided by the motherboard manufacturer not by us so any change on the BIOS of your third party motherboard making the processor run out of specifications will void the warranty.For more warranty information please visit the following websites:http://support.intel.com/support/processors/sb/CS-02003...

Sincerely, Adolfo S.Intel(R) Customer Support

Hello, Thank you for contacting Intel(R) Customer Support. By forcing the processor to run at a lower speed that the one it was designed to run the processor will be running out of specification so we cannot guaranty the functionality of the same.This means that the processor might fail at any time or at least shorting the processor life and even damage the motherboard.

Sincerely, Adolfo S.Intel(R) Customer Support


Some very OFFICIAL reply that i was expected.and probably all of you out there also expected something similar.so to the point they try to get across is "IF YOU DO ANYTHING OTHER THEN DROPPING IT IN THE MOBO AND LIVE WITH IT,WE WILL LEAVE YOU IN THE COLD AND ROB YOU!"

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Doesn't anyone read the wording of the warranties? It says the same thing, however, they dont mention much else.

He didnt say a thing about the VID. The VID is detected by the mobo at startup and assigned accordingly.

Does he mean that you can run it at 0.85 - 1.5 volts and not void the warranty if you dont OC or under clock it? That still makes no sense!

You need to ask him if: I would like to know if I run the chip outside of the detected VID, does that void the warranty.

Then be very specific: As in, if I leave the core frequency alone, and simply set the voltage to 1.5 and thats all. Is it within intel specifications, or are you meaning that if I had a 1.2500 VID chip, and set the Voltage to anything but the VID, does that void the warranty.

Something where it only mentions changing the Voltages. (Is the VID or the 0.85 - 1.5 the chips natural "specifications") Since thats what voids the warranty.

--Lupi

iluvgillgill said:
... Manually forcing the voltage of the processor to run at a specific value will make it run out of specifications voiding the warranty of the processor. ...

Seems pretty clear to me, Lup. If you don't leave the CPU voltage setting on "auto", no warranty.
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I wonder how they figure out if it ran at say 1.225V instead of 1.300V (that's how I run mine). It's all in BIOS so they tell you to go fsck yourself every time or what?

Or even better.
Let's say you have a crappy PSU and a cheap motherboard. Your Vdrop = 0.075V. Then you run Prime95 because you like to look at the numbers. Your Vcore drops to 1.2V. Then your chip dies due to a cosmic colission. And you're fscked because you had a crappy PSU?

I'd pull my hat over my mouth and scream but I can't see my hands.

What's with all the file system checking? ;) 
Of course, as you suggest, Intel won't be able to tell, so it's a moot point. The responses from Intel were just standard if-you-run-it-outside-specs we-can't-warranty-it boilerplate.

I like my file systems clean and checked. ;) 
I wonder how many RMAs Intel gets on chips that run within spec.
That's an autoresponse mail generated by a robot that checks for keywords like voltage and clock and throws you a bone. :D 

it could be a stupid question, but why in the world would you downclock your cpu?, why not get a slower cpu? i mean i get the benefits of saving power, just like the amd cool'n'quiet that lower the multiplier and the voltage. but why would you willingly take it past that? extra couple watts? again i could be missing something pretty obvious, since i haven't slept for 37 hours now.

That's just the generic, cover their ass reply. They didn't say underclocking can damage a cpu. A cpu can be damaged by 2 things, heat and electromigration. These are caused by higher cpu clock frequencies and higher voltage. Since underclocking is reducing the frequency and/or voltage, it will not damage the cpu. If anything, it will extend it's lifetime.
CPUs Expert

haha intel cant tell what speed you have been running your cpu at, i say fcuk them and run it at whatever you want to run it at, and as for the whole idea of underclocking, i would be very embarrassed if my underclocked system died, i would have to face my friends and they would be like haha you cooked it, what were you clocked at? and saying a small numbers to that aint cool haha.

underclocing is a great way to make a cool power efficent file server - used to have an athlon xp thoroughbred running at around 1ghz for a file server - could almost run it passive.

Actually with intel's speed step, underclocking is automatic! but Intel on the other hand cannot recommend things like what your doing because of stability issues and results - data loss etc.


Mondoman - underclocking used to be the only way to run old athlon xp's in summer for my mates here in Australia :D  but only cause they were using stock cooling too and prolly not assembled correctly :lol: 

apache_lives said:
Mondoman - underclocking used to be the only way to run old athlon xp's in summer for my mates here in Australia :D  but only cause they were using stock cooling too and prolly not assembled correctly :lol: 
And didn't have an air conditioner. ;) 


iluvgillgill, funny auto response, I call BS from Intel. Typical CYA on their part. Why are you two still holding on to this nonsensical argument?
CPUs Authority

So simply dropping a CPU into an Abit motherboard (which is overclocked by default) voids my warranty? Gay... :lol: 

@Lupiron: He was a little unclear but he did say "Manually forcing the voltage of the processor to run at a specific value will make it run out of specifications voiding the warranty of the processor." So no, you can't run your processor at anything other than what the BIOS defaults to, which in my case is out of spec anyway :sarcastic: 

@godless: Don't ever go on SPCR forums saying there's no point to underclocking, you'll be shot.
CPUs Expert

godless said:
it could be a stupid question, but why in the world would you downclock your cpu?, why not get a slower cpu? i mean i get the benefits of saving power, just like the amd cool'n'quiet that lower the multiplier and the voltage. but why would you willingly take it past that? extra couple watts? again i could be missing something pretty obvious, since i haven't slept for 37 hours now.


There are many reasons to underclock your CPU.
I will start with my G0 Q6600 as an example.

@ stock speed (2.4GHz), reference voltage (VID 1.325): 108 Watts
@ 1.2GHZ underclock (6*200), 1.1V (Mb minimum): 37 Watts
Wattage provided by the eXtream PS Calculator

That is 71W of savings just from the CPU underclock!
Power savings that I have full time, not just when it decides to throttle using speed step.
Add to that my underclocked GPU and RAM and I am saving quite a bit on my electric bill.

It dose not stop with just energy savings.
Underclocking reduced heat output, can stabilise unstable systems and prolongs the life of the parts among other things.
If you are using a variable speed cooler it will also lower your systems acoustics.

Even fully underclocked, my system is more than powerful enough for daily use.
I can even do some light gaming with my overclocks in place (bump it back to 3 or 3.6 GHz for some of the newer games).

godless said:
...but why in the world would you downclock your cpu?, why not get a slower cpu?


This thread or arguement just want to find some "interesting" facts about CPU and mobo.there is no need for you to speak in such way.

and pretty much all you guys is right.he didnt answer the question is running the CPU slower/with lower voltage is dangerous?He just simply replied it will VOID the warranty and it could fail any time.

come on.a bad chip wouldnt even start at all!!!so the answer he gave is plain CowPoo.

Today i just emailed Intel again with the following.
Quote:

Hi.

I have just noticed with the CPU monitor utility that came with the motherboard.it shows my Q6600 is running at 1.6Ghz and the voltage is lower then VID 1.325V.So is my warranty VOID?i havent touch anything in the BIOS.i only install windows and load up that information and got me worried about my warranty.As you said if the speed is not the default then the warranty will VOID.or is the CPU defective?

thanks.


I wonder what the reponse will be.

and do i sound innocent and noob enough in that email??? :lol: 

iluvgillgill said:
Today i just emailed Intel again with the following.
Quote:

Hi.

I have just noticed with the CPU monitor utility that came with the motherboard.it shows my Q6600 is running at 1.6Ghz and the voltage is lower then VID 1.325V.So is my warranty VOID?i havent touch anything in the BIOS.i only install windows and load up that information and got me worried about my warranty.As you said if the speed is not the default then the warranty will VOID.or is the CPU defective?

thanks.


I wonder what the reponse will be.

and do i sound innocent and noob enough in that email??? :lol: 


You are an evil man

Here is the reply everybody!!!

Quote:
Hello,

Thank you for contacting Intel(R) Customer Support.

I would recommend installing the latest BIOS version for your motherboard and then disable the Enhance Intel SpeedStep(R) Technology on your motherboard BIOS in order to make the processor run at maximum speed to see if the system will report the proper voltage of your processor.The Enhance Intel SpeedStep(R) Technology is one of the options that can be changed on the BIOS without affecting the processor warranty. If you need information on how to disable the Enhance Intel SpeedStep(R) Technology on your motherboard BIOS you will need to contact the motherboard manufacturer. Please do not hesitate to contact us again if you need further assistance.

Sincerely, Adolfo S.Intel(R) Customer Support

Has anyone ever wondered why Intel's idling mode(C1E, SpeedStep whatever) only goes to 6x multiplier? At 200MHz that was all good as 1000-1200MHz is pretty much a sweetspot for idle responsivnes, document writing and browsing the web.
Now with 333-400MHz that 6x means 2.0GHz or 2.4GHz (stock Q6600 load frequencies) !!! It should have been reduced to 3x with the 45nm chips.
That would make underclocking "inclusive" by default. Noone wants a chip slower than 1GHz today anyway. :D 

i think you can email Intel and ask them just like me.but i wonder what they will say though.

i think maybe because 1 they cooudlnt be bother to change the code etc.and 2 even though they want to save some life cycle for your CPU but they still want it to die at a minimum speed though.so you can get a new CPU from them again!

If they'll continue to make chips like the Q6600 I'd have no problems buying from them. While they were making cr4p in the form of netburst I also had no problem buying from AMD. :) 

That being said I can't be bothered to contact them. I'd rather spend my time reading Dilbert comics... :D 

outlw6669 said:
There are many reasons to underclock your CPU.
I will start with my G0 Q6600 as an example.
...
That is 71W of savings just from the CPU underclock!
...I am saving quite a bit on my electric bill.

71w x 24 hours/day x 30 days/month = about 50 kwhours/month. Cost at $0.08/kwh = about $4/month.

outlw6669 said:

It dose not stop with just energy savings.
Underclocking reduced heat output, can stabilise unstable systems and prolongs the life of the parts among other things.
If you are using a variable speed cooler it will also lower your systems acoustics.

According to this logic, leaving the system turned off the system is even better: :) 
1) no heat output, maximum part life.
2) no noise at all.
3) no energy use at all.

I wonder who that is... :whistle: 

I have 9 x 120mm fans in case you were wondering.

Anyways I also call BS on Intel. Underclocking in safe, I'm sure. The question here is which is more damaging, assuming the same voltage: Lower frequency or higher frequency? I tend to think that lower frequency with more than enough voltage is a little more damaging than higher frequency with just enough voltage.

There should be now impact from frequency alone unless you take statistical state changes into account (heat increases wear and tear but with good cooling the overclocked chip can run cooler than a stock cooled chip at stock).
IE: a stock cooled Q6600 at 2.4GHz reaches 60C at 1.3V.
a TRUE cooled Q6600 at 3.0GHz reaches 50C at 1.3V.
I'd say the cooler chip would last longer even if it is overclocked.
Electromigration is mostly voltage dependant.

However with a system built from so many elements that are as small as they are in a processor it's hard to say it's hard to guess what will have the greatest impact on wear and tear. I'd say it's something like this: voltage > heat >...>...> frequency. :) 
CPUs Authority

Evilonigiri said:
That makes a whole lot of sense.

I do remember reading that for every 10C drop, the life of the cpu increases 10years. Or was that for HDs? :/ 

Crap! What if it's under LN2? Na, screw that, what if it's under LH? :pt1cable: 

come on guys.the arguement is never ending.and plus this thread just to extend on what cowpoo reply intel have gave me.not about the dangerous and life span of the CPU or mobo.since we all gonna upgrade in a year or two anyway.

I'd like to underclock my notebook. It's running hot.
I can feel the heat through a half inch thick wood board. The chip is probably melting hot inside. :) 
The dentist drill fan is no fun either.

^You know your avatar says : "I secretly hate you." right ? :) 

I think they secretly downgraded my P4M to a PressHot in my notebook last time it was in service(cleaning the HSF while under warranty). It Idles at 75C, like my D920 did at work.

I think you'd hit the thermal limit and end up with a bowl of hot water at say 80-90C. ;) 
If you added my passive cooled 9600GT you could go upto boiling point as Gigabyte thinks that's still safe. I'd rather not find out. :ouch: 

yeah true.but help myself to hot pot in the winter while playing crysis and call of duty 4!lol

hey just notice in my other thread the B-Unit guy is complaining about his crappy AMD system!lol

For the record, you can also sometimes undervolt AND overclock, or just undervolt at the same clock speed.
My P-M cpu runs at 1.1 volts rather than the 1.35 it would run at if left alone.

My C2D is also undervolted a bit (I forget what it's at right now) AND OC'ed from 1.86 to 2.8

iluvgillgill said:
yeah true.but help myself to hot pot in the winter while playing crysis and call of duty 4!
If you need a space heater just get two PressHots/Preslers from eBay and run F@H on them. We used one as a blowdryer during winter at work too warm hands when comming to work at 9AM and -10C on a bike. :) 

MattC said:
For the record, you can also sometimes undervolt AND overclock, or just undervolt at the same clock speed.
My P-M cpu runs at 1.1 volts rather than the 1.35 it would run at if left alone.

My C2D is also undervolted a bit (I forget what it's at right now) AND OC'ed from 1.86 to 2.8
We know. My C2Q is undervolted and overclocked. 2.4GHz and 1.300V stock to 3.0GHz and 1.225V overclocked. :) 
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