High-End DDR3 Memory on the Hook

Chaintech, Corsair, Crucial, Kingston and Supertalent battle at the DDR3-1600 and DDR3-1800 summits. Which premium memory product comes out on top?

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/0 [...] index.html

Reply to muk

Um, didn't we basically have this same article about a week ago? Again, how much gain is there in using DDR3 VS DDR2. I would love to see that. When they compared the DDR2 X38 boards to the DDR3 X38 boards, there was very very very little difference.

Reply to hairycat101

Muk,
Why dont you ever throw in a DDR2 for comparison? All your recommendations for DDR1333 are based on absolutely nothing. You not showing anyone even the slightest shred of evidence that DDR3 is actually better than DDR2. I can run my Ballistix at DDR1200 4-4-4-15. with stability. You can buy these Ballistix 2GB kits for about $50 nowadays. Toms used to be a seemingly unbiased review site. Now you guys come off just screeming "we are pawn of the industry" and even the most obtuse readers can see it plain as day.

Message quoted 1 times

------------------------------ E4300@9x356 = 3.2Ghz 1.36v - lapped to 600 grit idle 27C load 48C
DS3 rev3.3, Ballistix DDR1068 4-4-4-12 2x1GB, Sapphire X1950XT
SCNJ 1100P - lapped to 600 grit - Ceramique - Pressure Mount Mod

Reply to little_scrapper

little_scrapper wrote :

Muk,
Why dont you ever throw in a DDR2 for comparison? All your recommendations for DDR1333 are based on absolutely nothing. You not showing anyone even the slightest shred of evidence that DDR3 is actually better than DDR2. I can run my Ballistix at DDR1200 4-4-4-15. with stability. You can buy these Ballistix 2GB kits for about $50 nowadays. Toms used to be a seemingly unbiased review site. Now you guys come off just screeming "we are pawn of the industry" and even the most obtuse readers can see it plain as day.

That's probably a bit harsh. :non: It does seem, though, that more memory would be better then less and that for the same dollar amount I could easily have twice the DDR2 ram then the DDR3. Give us a bone next time you guys run the same article again comparing DDR3 modules. :kaola: and put in a DDR2 setup for comparason. Are we going to see another DDR3 line-up next week or the week after?

Reply to hairycat101

Its only harsh if you are reading it with an advasarial point of view. If we are friends and I call you a Butt-hole, your not really going to get offended and start crying about it. I have been reading Toms for years and one friend to another, sometime you need to hear the truth. did I just say Butt-hole? hehe

Message quoted 1 times

------------------------------ E4300@9x356 = 3.2Ghz 1.36v - lapped to 600 grit idle 27C load 48C
DS3 rev3.3, Ballistix DDR1068 4-4-4-12 2x1GB, Sapphire X1950XT
SCNJ 1100P - lapped to 600 grit - Ceramique - Pressure Mount Mod

Reply to little_scrapper

Quote :

...Ballistix at DDR1200 4-4-4-15. with stability. You can buy these Ballistix 2GB kits for about $50 nowadays

Could you provide us all with a link?

Message quoted 1 times

------------------------------ Watercooling Info:
Tom's Hardware Watercooling Sticky
Build Log | Project: Askew
Stuff 4 Sale
Reply to rubix_1011

little_scrapper wrote :

Its only harsh if you are reading it with an advasarial point of view. If we are friends and I call you a Butt-hole, your not really going to get offended and start crying about it. I have been reading Toms for years and one friend to another, sometime you need to hear the truth. did I just say Butt-hole? hehe

Only my mother calls me that :sarcastic:

Reply to hairycat101

rubix_1011 wrote :

Quote :

...Ballistix at DDR1200 4-4-4-15. with stability. You can buy these Ballistix 2GB kits for about $50 nowadays

Could you provide us all with a link?

Ok so I was making a general statement about DDR2 pricing not referring to a specific one on sale now but just look around.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820148076
http://www.buy.com/retail/searchre [...] l&dclksa=1
Ballistix Tracers for $40 after MIR

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Prod [...] e=10006488
$70 after MIR. and free shipping. Just gotta look for the deals. find a deal with a google checkout to get another $10 off. The prices are going up anfd down pretty much daily so keep looking and jump when its low.

Message edited by little_scrapper on 01-11-2008 at 05:31:47 PM

------------------------------ E4300@9x356 = 3.2Ghz 1.36v - lapped to 600 grit idle 27C load 48C
DS3 rev3.3, Ballistix DDR1068 4-4-4-12 2x1GB, Sapphire X1950XT
SCNJ 1100P - lapped to 600 grit - Ceramique - Pressure Mount Mod

Reply to little_scrapper

I must agree with little scrapper. What is the point of comparing DDR3 with DDR3? I would like to see how much better it performs over DDR2. I mean, if you are only going to see a small difference, why bother spending all of that cash when you can grab something like 2GB Ballistix Tracer memory for $40 compared to well over $100 for DDR3, plus over $200 for a DDR3 MoBo..

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Reply to meadowlands

meadowlands wrote :

I must agree with little scrapper. What is the point of comparing DDR3 with DDR3? I would like to see how much better it performs over DDR2. I mean, if you are only going to see a small difference, why bother spending all of that cash when you can grab something like 2GB Ballistix Tracer memory for $40 compared to well over $100 for DDR3, plus over $200 for a DDR3 MoBo..

$100? Try like $300. $250 for low end pricing. THEN add another $200 for the mobo.

Message edited by little_scrapper on 01-11-2008 at 05:38:28 PM

------------------------------ E4300@9x356 = 3.2Ghz 1.36v - lapped to 600 grit idle 27C load 48C
DS3 rev3.3, Ballistix DDR1068 4-4-4-12 2x1GB, Sapphire X1950XT
SCNJ 1100P - lapped to 600 grit - Ceramique - Pressure Mount Mod

Reply to little_scrapper

I agree there is nothing showing thus far, that DDR3 has any benefit especially at the price points.

It makes me almost feel like all that is necessitating the purchase of ddr3 is to stay "current" when in reality, ddr2 is doing the job just fine.

I will also support little_scrapper's results with crucial ballistix memory performance. I was getting mine up to near ddr2 1000 with 4-4-4-12 on 2.2 volts, until to my amazement I jacked up the voltage a tad and hit close to what he hit with his. I think crucial memory for the price (which is legit at ~50 bucks) is one of the best bargains out there, and great quality to boot.

Put my corsair dominators to shame.
Maybe there is some benefit to be seen with a new chipset?
But for right now, I am inclined to believe that ddr3 is simply just another "phenomism". Almost like an 'upgrade" that is not really such.

I guess it's just going to be a wait and see kind of thing where this eventually goes.

Reply to righteous

This is mainly a forum for enthusiasts, right? So where are the enthusiasts who are seeing benefits to DDR3? I know someone here has DDR3 in their box. How does it compare? That is truly the question.

Reply to hairycat101

I got lucky with the Ballsitix I got because they are rated for DDR1000 at 2.0v. And will run that speed on 1.8.v. Although I have never tesed for stability at 1.8v. Shortly after I got mine I noticed that everyone had changed thier specs to 2.2v. I assume they were running out of the better chips and/or were saving them for the higher priced modules. I pulled one heatspreader (HIGHLY NOT RECOMMENDED) and saw I got some GMH chips, nothing special. Good... but not special like the GKX or whatever the best ones are.

Anyways, There is no refuting that DDR3 has more bandwidth. But, they just are not FASTER. So relatively speaking, unless you need more them 6.4GB/s running back and forth, your not really going to see squat for difference.

look at the previous articles bench results here: http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/0 [...] age23.html
This is the important one for the vast majority of us...GAMERS!

Every module from top to bottom, from DDR1066 to DDR1600. There is only about a 5fps difference from highest to lowest. About a 2% variance. I bet if you toss in a few DDR2's at 1066, they woould score about the same. So if you can afford close to $300 and like throwing good money after bad then be my guest. Also if you just want to be able to say you have DDR3 thats fine too.

I just dont like people who "recommend" things without explaining why. All DDR3 actually does is add +1 to your e-penis, and take away all your beer and hooker money. No need for any DDR3 available today. I would admit that I think the latest chipsets are definately getting better than my P965 but we are still talking about very marginal gains after all.

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Message edited by little_scrapper on 01-11-2008 at 07:02:10 PM

------------------------------ E4300@9x356 = 3.2Ghz 1.36v - lapped to 600 grit idle 27C load 48C
DS3 rev3.3, Ballistix DDR1068 4-4-4-12 2x1GB, Sapphire X1950XT
SCNJ 1100P - lapped to 600 grit - Ceramique - Pressure Mount Mod

Reply to little_scrapper

little_scrapper wrote :

All DDR3 actually does is add +1 to your e-penis, and take away all your beer and hooker money. No need for any DDR3 available today.

Reply to hairycat101

EDIT: check out the DDR2 synthetic scores here: http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/1 [...] age16.html
this is Toms own X38 shootout using DDR2. Is it me or is the DDR2 actually scoring better in that article than the DDR3 is in this article? In that article OC'ed DDR2 getting 9000's. In this article DDR3 1600 only getting 8000's. And in toms DDR3 1800 shoot out the DDR3 did no better.

I guess that DDR3 is actually -1 to your e-penis, and you HAVE thrown good money after bad. And that is why I take offence to someone actually recommending it to the mainstreem.

That reminds me, I would definatley like to see a good chipset shoot-out. And I dont mean a bunch of X38's against each other. But a shoutout between X38, X35, P965, P975 etc. That way we can see how the performance has progressed over the last 2-3 years.

Use all the same components, stock timings, just swap the motherboards.

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by little_scrapper on 01-11-2008 at 07:34:31 PM

------------------------------ E4300@9x356 = 3.2Ghz 1.36v - lapped to 600 grit idle 27C load 48C
DS3 rev3.3, Ballistix DDR1068 4-4-4-12 2x1GB, Sapphire X1950XT
SCNJ 1100P - lapped to 600 grit - Ceramique - Pressure Mount Mod

Reply to little_scrapper

little_scrapper wrote :

That reminds me, I would definatley like to see a good chipset shoot-out. And I dont mean a bunch of X38's against each other. But a shoutout between X38, X35, P965, P975 etc. That way we can see how the performance has progressed over the last 2-3 years.

Use all the same components, stock timings, just swap the motherboards.

That's a kick @$$ idea! :bounce: I second that notion.

All in favor, say hell ya! :heink:

Reply to hairycat101

you gotta be kidding me...
do you think im gonna pay 500 bucks for 2gig Dominator to play Deep Fritz 10 chess? why didnt you review games like crysis or hellgate or any of the new generation games! or some really demanding programs.

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Reply to neocortex

neocortex wrote :

you gotta be kidding me...
do you think im gonna pay 500 bucks for 2gig Dominator to play Deep Fritz 10 chess? why didnt you review games like crysis or hellgate or any of the new generation games! or some really demanding programs.

Exactly! And then use a DDR2 set-up for reference. I like the idea that little scrapper had about comparing the chipsets to see if there is any benefit to one over the other. This would also show if there is any positive or negative effect of the DDR3. Bet you 500 bucks would buy some pretty kick @$$ DDR2 ram... and more of it.

Reply to hairycat101

I too would REALLY have preferred to see a good DDR2 in the mix.

I'm planning a new build using the QX9650, presuming that I can OC it to 4GHz on air cooling (otherwise I wouldn't spend the money). I expect to buy a top new motherboard as well. My questions on RAM are:

#) Will there be much advantage to using entry-level DDR3 over top DDR2? I mean easier to OC the CPU and/or better final system performance?

#) Do the new DDR3 mobos also support DDR2? Looks like not but that seems strange.

Thanks for any advice -

Arbie

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Reply to Arbie

Arbie wrote :

Do the new DDR3 mobos also support DDR2? Looks like not but that seems strange.

No they don't, with a few exceptions.

DDR2 and DDR3 are physically different and you would not be able to even put DDR2 in a DDR3 slot. The exception is combo motherboards that have space for both DDR3 and DDR2. So yes, some mobos will support both, but they are for those who are willing to pay extra now and use DDR2 now, but later upgrade to DDR3.

Reply to loosscru

Looking up online prices for france and luxembourg i found the following prices in euro (taxes included but not shipping) for 2GB dual channel kit.

PC-10600 (1333Mhz):
Corsair, Gskill, OCZ : Around 270€
Kingston: around 290€

PC-12800 (1400Mhz):
Corsair: Around 380
Kingston, Ocz : Around 400

PC-14400 (1600Mhz):
Corsair : Around 480€
Kingston: Around 410€
Ocz: Around 540€

Reply to Phoxtrot

Anyone got a list of mobos supporting both DDR2 and DDR3?

If there is a real good one, I might just get ddr2 for a time and switch later on. Else, it gonna be DD3 with the Asus premium X38 mobo.

Reply to Phoxtrot

Tom's did a comparason of X38 DDR2 boards then ran the SAME tests with DDR3 X38 boards. You could do a quick comparason yourself. Just pick the benchmark and look at the DDR3 boards then look at the DDR2 boards.

Reply to hairycat101

Yep DDR2 did BETTER then the DDR3. So my $175 spent on MOBO and RAM is as good if not better then your $550 mobo ram combo.

Message edited by little_scrapper on 01-15-2008 at 11:18:25 PM

------------------------------ E4300@9x356 = 3.2Ghz 1.36v - lapped to 600 grit idle 27C load 48C
DS3 rev3.3, Ballistix DDR1068 4-4-4-12 2x1GB, Sapphire X1950XT
SCNJ 1100P - lapped to 600 grit - Ceramique - Pressure Mount Mod

Reply to little_scrapper

Hey, I'm a newb to the forum but not to computing & overclocking.

Most hardware test sites recommend that for optimal performance with a C2D system, the CPU/DRAM frequency ratio should be 1:1. That means that a C2D @ 1333MHz FSB (333MHz freq) really only needs DDR2-667 (333MHz freq) or higher rated RAM clocked down to 333MHz. Now I realize that for overclocking, you need the higher rated RAM, but at this point in time, I don't see the advantage of having DDR3 RAM capable of running at 800MHz or 900MHz freq when current CPUs & chipsets don't come close to running at those speeds.

Am I missing something??

Message edited by hawk_420 on 01-16-2008 at 03:42:56 AM

Reply to hawk_420

DDR2 saw the exact same growing pains when it was first introduced. It wasnt any better then DDR1 in the beginning, only much more expensive. DDR3 will go through the same growing pains. It will get faster and cheaper. I think the real turning point will be when Intel puts a memory controller on the die of the cpu. Then DDR3 will really shine. And I'm not sure but I bet when that happens DDR3 will be a requirement.

AMD is going to be majorly bummin when Intel put on-the-die memory controller. AMD is so far behind in the performance now that once they loose thier only saving grace(major memory performance) they are gonna be totally screwed. They better keep thier fingers crossed and hope they can retain fanboi loyalty bacause Intel is going to pummel AMD into bolivia!

Message edited by little_scrapper on 01-16-2008 at 09:25:43 PM

------------------------------ E4300@9x356 = 3.2Ghz 1.36v - lapped to 600 grit idle 27C load 48C
DS3 rev3.3, Ballistix DDR1068 4-4-4-12 2x1GB, Sapphire X1950XT
SCNJ 1100P - lapped to 600 grit - Ceramique - Pressure Mount Mod

Reply to little_scrapper

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/0 [...] index.html

Finally the comparason that we wanted. It did take some time, but at least they finally found it in themselves to address the obvious issue that was on most of our minds: this being... WTheck is the benefit in spending 500% more for DDR3? GJ, tomshardware. Even if you dragged your feet about it.