First Build, First Post, Need HELP!!!

[topps9898]

Hi All,

This is my first post so apologies upfront if I confuse everyone.

Historically I have been a "buy it already built" person but have come to find that when wanting a high end system this becomes grossly overpriced. I also thought it would be nice to take up a new hobby and challenge.

My goal is to build a system that will be adequate for both gaming and minor digital editing (nothing professional) with the concentration being more towards gaming. I am a believer in getting my best bang for my buck, not buying the most expensive item just because it is the most expensive, but instead buying the item that makes the most sense.

Goals:

Speed: (Was thinking Intel Quad Q6600) I do run office applications
Ability to use Dual monitors
would use 1-2 video cards at most.
Do not know much about Over Clocking and probably wont engage in much of that in my first build.

Also, I would the like the system to be adaptable for future upgrades, this is important.

I have begun reading all the threads on computer building, parts reviews, attended some shows etc. This has been over a 5 month period and to date the only items I have purchased were 8 gigs of Corsair DDR 2 memory and Microsoft Vista. This process has been painful.

I have found this website to be the most informative so I figured I would start here.

Lets start with what I know.

I know I want to use an Intel Quad Q6600 Chip. I want a lot of speed but I figure I can always upgrade to the second fastest chip. This seems to be the best bang for the buck.

My main confusion is trying to figure out what motherboard and what graphics card to buy.

Motherboards::

At first I wanted to purchase the P5N32-E SLI Nforce 680i but now I am hearing a lot of buzz about the X38 (and possibly an X48???)and the 780i, I do have some time to wait if there is something spectacular coming out in the next couple of weeks.

Can someone tell me what the difference is? I believe the X38 doesn't have SLI capabilities but truthfully I don't even know what that is.

Video Cards:

I hear that the 8800 GT SSC is probably the best bang for the buck but I have been seeing the 8800 GTS SSC for roughly the same price, which is better?

Here is what I was thinking, please help me fill in the blanks,

CPU: Intel Quad Q6600
Mother Board: ??????
Memory: Corsair TWIN2X4096-6400C5DHX
Graphics Card: ????? either 8800 GT SSC or 8800 GTS SSC ?????
Cooling: Zalman 9700 NT
Power supply: SILVERSTONE ST75F ATX 12V 2.2 & EPS 12V 750W Power Supply
Hard Drive: (2) ??? Western Digital 500GB WD5000AAKS OR Seagate Barracuda 500GB ST3500630AS ????? Which is better???
Burner: (2) LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model LH-20A1L-05 - OEM (not going to watch blue ray or HD on the comp. Is this a good burner?
Operating System: Windows Vista (gearing towards the future)
Monitor: ????? Atleast 22"

Please take a look and let me know what you think, I am lost on the graphics cards and mother boards. Please help. Thanks and sorry for the lengthy post.

 

[ImajorI]

I built a similar system just around Christrmas, its under my name to the left. The Abit IP 35 motherboard let me overclock very easily. It was relatively easy to build and was first time building as well. If you post a budget others more knowledgable than me will assist. My system was around $1,600 US without monitor. To me your CPU, memory, PSU, and burner seem like good choices. Vista 64 is working well for me. Good Luck.

 

[topps9898]

Thanks.

The budget will be around $2k without monitor. I probably wont get into Over Clocking too much, mainly becuase I am unfamiliar with it.

Is the P35 geared towards future upgrading or is it a mainly a right now board?

I also see you went with the 8800 GT, was that because of budgeting concerns or because you thought it was better then the 8800 GTS SSC.

Thanks, really appreciate the response.

 

[BUFF]

abit's IP35-E/IP35/IP35 Pro are a good range of mobos. http://www.abit.com.tw/upload/english/ip35-series/index.htm
From what you say I suspect that Crossfire & SLI are of little interest to you (basically ATi's & nVidia's separate ways of using 2 GPUs in parallel to increase gfx performance) & as it doesn't sound like you are going to be pushing for a maximum overclock you can save some $$s & rule out the Pro.
The IP35-E & IP35 are basically the same mobo but the IP35-E has only 4 SATA ports whereas the IP35 has 6 (plus RAID capability but again that will probably be irrelevant for you atm) & firewire.

abit USA also have a great user forum where you will get all sorts of help if you need it.

 

[ImajorI]

For me the IP 35 Pro was the right board and guys on here seem to like it. You can select some boards on a website like Newegg and side by side compare their features. I also like the IP 35's customer reviews being very high. There are new boards/platforms on the horizon but thats the nature of upgrading, at some point you just jump into whats here now. My 8800 GT works good, the GTS your looking at is probably more powerfull and most guys like the GTS better right now.
I took my time, read the motherboard manual and enjoyed building it. I found it much more satisfying than buying one already made and feel like I got better components and a stronger system.

 

[topps9898]

Just from reading I though the 680i/780i boards were more geared towards future upgrading?

I also read somewhere that there were issues with the 680i SLI boards supporting dual monitors, is this true?

Thanks for the responses.

 

[Stewartwi]

What case do you plan on using?

 

[Stewartwi]

Just from reading I though the 680i/780i boards were more geared towards future upgrading?

I also read somewhere that there were issues with the 680i SLI boards supporting dual monitors, is this true?

Thanks for the responses.

I never had any issues with running dual monitors on a 680I as far as being future proof the 680I won't support the newest Intel quad cores but they will support the new dual cores. Not sure if the 780I will support the new quads or not.

 

[topps9898]

I plan on using the Antec Nine hundred, but am open for all recommendations on all parts lol.

I really want to build a solid, super fast machine that will be a good gamer. The Intel Core Q6600 is the chip of choice (best bang for buck in my eyes).

All else is open for the audience to opine. Thanks.

 

[geofelt]

If your planned use is gaming, start with the best video card that you feel comfortable buying. Look at this list for some guidance: http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/01/03/the_best_gaming_graphics/page4.html#best_pcie_card_for_290
My suggestion today is the 8800GTS-512-G92. It is a bit more expensive, and just a bit faster, but it has one big advantage: a good cooler that will direct vga heat out the back of the case, keeping all the interior components cooler. I would pick the evga card just on the possibility that you might want to step-up to a better card which could be announced within 90 days.
For gaming, the cpu is less important than the vga card unless you will play one of the few cpu intensive games like flight simulator x. A E6750 would suffice. There are very few games out today that will take advantage of more than 2 cores. By the time that changes, nehalem will obsolete any current or penryn quads. For the same price as a quad, you can benefit from the higher clock speed of a duo, and get less heat. For the same price as a Q6600 @2.4, you could get a duo E8500@3.16. If you will do lots of multitasking, then consider a quad. In the next week or so, the new 45nm penryns should launch. They will be perhaps 20% more cost effective than the current 65nm cpu's, so I would wait just a bit to see what comes out.

As to the motherboard, with the same cpu, they will all perform about(1-2%) the same in application performance. Pick one based on vendor quality, features, and price. It does not matter much if the board is based on P965, P35, X38, or x48, or nvidia. Only for high overclockers does it seem to matter. It does not matter if it uses ddr2 or ddr3 memory. Some motherboards seem to have a problem with 8gb of memory. I have been researching this, and have come to the conclusion that a Gigabyte P35 board is the most likely to be successful, particularly using the memory you picked out. I just ordered a GA-P35-DS3R, and hope to try 8gb sometime in the future. If your budget is not unlimited, any sort of dual vga card system is probably not in the cards. I do hope that the vista you bought is a 64 bit version, home premium at least. There will probably not be any worthwhile upgrades dependent on the mobo until nehalem arrives.

The zalman is a nice looking cooler, but the thermalright ultra 120 extreme is more effective. http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=2981&p=3

I have been very happy with the samsung 203b burner, It is very quiet, which I like. There is a litescribe version 203N http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151154

If there is a single future proof component that you can buy today, it is the monitor. You will be looking at it for several generations of pc's. It is worth it to get a good one. One thing I look for is a 178 degree viewing angle which shows up on only the pricier models. What that means is if the viewing angle is small, like 160 degrees, you have to keep your head in a certain horizontal/vertical relationship to the monitor to keep it form looking washed out. Samsung makes the panels for a lot of vendors, so I like them, I figure that they keep the best parts for themselves. Look for the "T" suffix monitors like the 245T http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001246 , 940T, or 305T.

What are you looking for in a case? Most will work, and there is a lot of personal preference involved. If you want "bling", I can't help you there. If you want quiet, I can recommend the Antec P182, or Solo. Personally, I don't like front doors, and am very happy with the Solo.

---good luck---

 

[topps9898]

Wow, great reply thanks!

Regarding the motherboard, you mentioned something I find very interesting and critical,

"Some motherboards seem to have a problem with 8gb of memory"

I didn't know that.... What Gigabyte P35 do you recommend? What boards are generally good with 8GB of DDR2 memory. I have always been partial to ASUS because of all the great things I have read, but being new to this i'd take less headaches more then anything else.

Although I don't think I will ever use Dual Graphics cards, I would like to keep the option open.

I am a little lost on the "45nm penryns", what is this? Is this a new version of the Quad Dual Q6600 chip? Will it cost more?

I bought Vista Ultimate (Full Version)

I am open for recommendations on the case, I want something nice looking but easy to use and build in. Def would like a quiet case with good ventilation. I read that the Antec Nine Hundred was pretty good and I do like the way it opens.

 

[geofelt]

SLI stands for scalable link interface, it is used with nvidia graphics cards and nvidia chipsets to combine the power of two graphics cards for a single task. You do not get twice the power, the increase is in the range of 10% to 50%, depending on the game. For Intel chipsets, it is called "crossfire", and must use ati based graphics cards with the same limitations in performance. I think it is not economic unless a single graphics card will not suffice. If you have two or more pci-e slots on your mobo, you can have two or more graphics cards. A single graphics card can usually support two monitors. Even then, if you only have a single pci=e slot, you can add another pci graphics card if you need more than two monitors. A pci based graphics card will have limited performance.

I suggest the GA-P35-DS3R. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128050 It is reasonably priced, and has lots of back panel usb ports. The P35 bios has had time to mature, and they promise 45nm processor support.

With 8gb, you might have to run the memory at 667 instead of 800. It's not a problem because the C2D processors are not very sensitive to memory speeds. I was impressed by a poster on the corsair forum who used 8gb with vista-64. He said that performance was wonderful with 8gb. I can't remember if it was the asus boards, or the nvidia chipsets that were giving problems with 8gb. Read some of the questions on the corsair memory forum to get a feel for it.

On Jan 21, some new intel processors will be available. They are up for pre-order in some places already.
E8400 3.0 $200-$210
E8500 3.16 $290-$305
Q9450 2.66 $350 in feb.
They have 6mb cache, and some new, faster instructions, so they are about 5% faster, clock for clock.

Full version ultimate will come with both a 32 bit dvd, and a 64 bit dvd. Good. Also, there is a deal for full ultimate owners to buy an additional copy of home premium for $50, a good deal.

Here is a good review on the antec 900 http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=996&pageID=2739
Of particular interest to me is the comparison of the cooling efficiency vs. the noise level with the Antec 900,Solo and the lian-li G70. At the same noise level, each case cooled the same! The 900 cooled the best, but that was only when the fans were on high, and it was noisiest. The solo was the quietest when the fans were on low. Lian-li was in the middle. Pick what is most important to you. I like quiet, and my Solo fans are on low with no cooling problems. I also like washable filters to keep the case cleaner. The Solo has this, as does the P180 and P182.

All cases are reasonably easy to build in, and you are only doing it once. A few tips:
Mount the cooler and memory outside of the case. You need to do this to either put on a back plate, or seat the push pins properly. I also attach the case front panel connectors with the motherboard outside the case. The connectors are small, and my fingers are big.
Get a #2 phillips head screwdriver with a magnetic tip. I find this very useful to hold and seat the mobo screws before screwing them in.

 

[topps9898]

Do P35 motherboards support PCI Express 2.0 support? Is it a real concern if it does not?

What P35 pro board is recommended? Thanks.

 

[topps9898]

Thanks, this forum has been a great help. I will let you know how it all turns out.

 

[geofelt]

P35 motherboards do not support pci-E 2.0. It is not a problem. Current vga cards do not utilize even half of the capabilities of the 1.0 pci-e. New vga cards that support 2.0 are backwards compatible with 1.0, and perform exactly the same with either type of slot. They would not sell very many if 2.0 were required. It will probably be quite some time in the future(much after nehalem) before vga cards become so fast that 1.0 will be a limitation.

 

[topps9898]

I have been reading some reviews on the P35 Motherboards and just wondering if the Gigabyte GA-P35-DQ6 might be a better option then the GA-P35-DS3R?

 

[geofelt]

Nothing wrong with the DQ6. I checked again, and for approximately twice the price, here is what you get:

An additional pci-e x4 slot instead of a pci 2.0 slot

You lose the fsb 1600(O.C.) capability

you get back panel com and lpt ports, and give up 4 extra back panel usb ports. The ds3 mobo has these connectors internally if you ever need them.

you get onboard 1394a(firewire).

You get a fancy copper heat pipe chipset cooling system.

What is important to you? For me, I have no plans for a second vga card for a third monitor, and if I ever do, I will just use the extra pci slot for it. ditto for the 1394a. I can use the 8 rear panel usb ports for certain.

 

[topps9898]

I will never use a 3rd monitor and probably not 2 video cards either.

I might want to dabble a bit with overclocking as I become more familiar with it. Definitely with the processor.

So Far I have the Following set up in mid:

CPU: Intel Q9450. Is the chip really going to be released on the 21st of Jan?

Mother Board: GA-P35-DS3R
Graphics Card: Geforce 8800 GTS SSC
Memory: Corsair TWIN2X4096-6400C5DHX 8GB
Cooling: thermalright ultra 120
Power: Silverstone S75F 750w (any thoughts?)
Hard drive: (2) ??? Western Digital 500GB WD5000AAKS OR Seagate Barracuda 500GB ST3500630AS ????? Which is better???
Burner: (2) Samsung 203b
Case: Antec Solo (will I have a problem fitting the MOBO in this case?)
OS: Windows Vista Ultimate

Questions:

Am I missing anything? parts?
Seagate or Wester Digital?
Will I have problems running 8gb of ram? I didnt find too much information on this.
If you had to chose one other P35 (or X38) motherboard besides this one (assuming you were using DDR2 Ram), which one would it be and why?
How much do you think I can overclock the CPU to? Speed is very important to me.
Is over clocking a difficult nut to crack?

When all is said and down will this be a nice system?

Thanks for all your help, time and patience with me. If your ever in NYC look me up, I owe you a drink!!!

 

[topps9898]

One other question, what is FSB 1600(O.C.) Capability?

 

[topps9898]

just realized I had

1 4gb Corsair 2X2048-6400C5DHX
and
1 4gb Corsair 2X4096-6400C5DHX

is this going to be a problem?

 

[geofelt]

One other question, what is FSB 1600(O.C.) Capability?

Beats me; it's on their list of differences. I think it means that the fsb can be overclocked to that level. I am no guru on overclocking, but I plan to work on it just as a fun exercise.

The Q9450 is scheduled later, for feb. The E8500 and E8400 are showing up for pre-order so I think jan 21 for those is a good bet. For gaming, take your pick; any one will do the job.

The silverstone is good, but not really needed unless you will have multiple vga cards . I picked the PC P&C silencer610 in part because of the 49a on the 12v rail, in part because of the reputed quality. I liked the idea of a fan in the back for a straight through cooling air flow. A psu with a bottom mounted 120mm fan will push the heated cpu air through the psu, making it run hotter and need more cooling. I mounted my dvd burner two spaces down in the case with the idea that I could open up the top to duct cool front air to the psu. This was never necessary. I never hear the fan at all, and all runs cool. What sealed the deal for me was telephone call to pc p&c with a question. A real live person picked up the phone, spoke american english, and connected me to a tech who answered my question immediately. Such service gets my $ every time. Oh yes, you can mount it upside down which moves the cables nicely to the side for cable management purposes.

I have used WD raptors, and have had no problem with them, so I like WD. I think you can buy the HDD based on price, they are all good.

Solo takes a standard ATX board, no problems putting one in the case.

You will want to get a 120mm fan for the thermalright ultra120 extreme. I suggest nexus, noctua, or yate-loon with a rpm in the 800 to 1200 rpm range. It will give adequate cooling without noticeable noise. The front of the case can take 2 92mm fans for extra cooling. the nexus real silent fan would be good there.

Get a tube of arctic silver 5. A small tube is ok, and will do for several cpu's. There are other good types, but I am not entirely convinced that there is anything significantly better.

With what you are getting, you will have no problem overclocking to a reasonably high level if you need/want to. It's pretty easy, and there are several step by step guides. It looks like the 45nm parts will do very well, perhaps to 4.0. For gaming, though, you won't need to. Just get a strong vga card.

I don't think you have a 4gb kit of 2x4096. You might have a 4gb kit of 4x1 or a 4gb kit of 2x2. The mobo can hold 4 sticks. The only way to get to 8gb is to install 4 2gb sticks. If you have 2 2gb sticks, and 2 1gb sticks, that is ok to give you 6gb total. If the memory parts are the same specs, just make certain to split the sticks symetrically between channels on the mobo. The mobo manual will have a diagram for this.

It might be a good idea to download the mobo and case manuals and read them beforehand.

 

[Eurasianman]

Best graphics card bang for buck is the AMD HD 3870s. Unless you don't care about image quality in the game, than go NVIDIA.

The Gigiabyte P35-DS3R isn't bad... was a board I was going to get, but decided to get the P35-DS3P since I plan on running crossfire. NVIDIA chipset motherboards suck at overclocking quads and run hot as well.

PCI-E 2.0 isn't really necessary... kind of like AGP 8x didn't really make much difference when compared to AGP 4x. It's just to help the bandwidth for the card as well as provide some more juice for it.

 

[ComputerCustomizer]

If you are willing to go for a $100 case, get the thermaltake armor. It has plenty of room inside, unlike the antec 900, which can get kind of crowded. It cools well, and looks awesome. http://tinyurl.com/ytp2zp

As for graphics, I would go with an NIVIDIA GeForce 8800GT. The best bang for the buck. EVGA has a 512 mb version that is priced nicely around $250. http://tinyurl.com/3avgyx

Motherboard. I would go with an Asus P5N32-E SLI motherboard. It has the 680i chipset and supports NVIDIA SLI. You probably don't want SLI now, but it is a good option to leave the option for later. It has a relitively high DOA rate on newegg, but you can keep RMA'ing it until you get a working one. http://tinyurl.com/3759gc

EDIT: The Asus P5N32-E doesn't support Penryn quad-core CPUs. No 680i boards do. However, it does support the Q6600, so that should work fine.

 

[topps9898]

I do have a 4gb 2X4096 (at least I hope I do). Check out frys they have a great deal on it $79.99 after $30 rebate. From what I can tell this is just 2 sticks of 2gb ram.

The only difference between the two sets of ram I have is the timing:

2X4096 = 5-5-5-18
2X2048 = 5-5-5-15

Other then that they are exactly the same. Will I have a problem because if this?

 

[topps9898]

Eurasianma: will the ds3p support the new pentium chips. Besides crossfire are there any added benefits for this board compared the dsr. Thanks