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CPU, GPU, and Ram.

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December 27, 2007 7:14:20 PM

Ok, so after some benchmarks, i came to the conclusion that my 8800gt is not performing like it should be. Cranking up all the settings in cod 4 for example, at 1280 by 1024 res, and my fps is between 20-60. Shouldn't it be a constant 100 or something? My 3dmark06 score was also a little over 6100, iv seen people saying they have a score of 10,000 with their 8800gt! Now my first thought was that i didn't have enough ram, so i increased it from 1 gig to 3 gig (using Corsair performance modules), and still, minor increase.

So it only leaves one thing that could be bottlenecking my GPU, my CPU! I am using an AMD 5200+ overclocked slightly to 2.7 from 2.6.

And now my question, when overclocking a CPU, how exactly is Ram involved? I'v seen ram mentioned a couple of time when people speak of CPU overclocking, but iv never actually seen a guide that gave all the details.

Also, would increasing my CPU to, for example, 2.9 or 3.0 help my CPU not bottlenecking my card, or do AMD and Nvidia cards just don't mix well?

Thanks a lot for helpful replies.

Specs:

8800GT oc2 from BFG running at 680/1680/980
Crosshair motherboard with the latest bios/drivers
Raptor x
3 gig ram from Corsair, running at 4-4-4-12
Seasonic S12 600W Silent ATX2.0 Power Supply

More about : cpu gpu ram

December 27, 2007 7:52:04 PM

wow

bottle neck this bottle neck that

my 8800GTS 512 scored a 12,210 in sdmark06 with a 6750@3.4ghz in vista with all back ground items on

same card so its not the card
i doubt its the mobo mine is g33
improperly tuned?

wait its an amd chip - switch to intel

my system: Silverstone lan box with 2 raptors in raid0 with storage drive - e6750 runnng 3.4ghz@1.4375v with muskin 4-4-3-10 running 4-3-3-9 @2.1v with memory fan. 8800gtx oc 640mb with slot fan to draft that nvidia e=internal exhust - its stuffed! gigabyte G33 mobo with chipset 40cm fan. 4x60mm fans plus front mod fan.


i pulled the evga 640mb and replaced it with the screeming 730mhz msi

old 3mark06 was 9200 or so
December 27, 2007 7:55:37 PM

What exactly is wrong with an AMD chip? Switching mobo/cpu isn't cheap you know :/  .
Related resources
December 27, 2007 9:56:18 PM

dragonsprayer has an agenda, although the part about GPU is probably accurate, don't listen to him under any circumstances when it comes to AMD vs intel, he always screams for the latter
to the OP, have you tried putting your 8800gt in a friend's computer? to make sure its not faulty somehow
December 28, 2007 8:35:45 AM

I actually cant put it in anyone's computer, but the idea that its faulty isn't something i haven't thought about. I mean, look at how crap the wording looks ever since i plugged in the card:



Notice the red thats coming out from the edges of the wording? I'm going to speak to the store i bought it from, this cant be working ok, it just performs too crap.
December 28, 2007 8:48:21 AM

Could this distortion be coming from the fact that im running VGA and not DVI?

I just found out that my monitor supports : "Analog and digital DVI-D source inputs"

Should i go with DVI?

Edit: where the hell do you plug in your DVI cable? All i see at the back is a port labeled "D-Sub" which i'm pretty sure is analogue. The monitor supports DVI for sure because you have an option in the monitor's menu (the one that comes up when you press the button on the front) to select between D-Sub and DVI.

My monitor: http://www.superwarehouse.com/BenQ_FP931_Black_19_LCD_M...

Do i need to use a D-Sub to DVI dongle if such a thing even exists?
December 29, 2007 12:07:29 PM

Nobody can help me with the original overclocking question? :/ 
December 29, 2007 1:55:34 PM

hi
The main Problem is the CPU if the cpu can't churn out enough power for the GPU and the Ram can't help it either.See the problem is not supporting intel or amd your CPU is quiet dead it's too slow for that 8800 you have.Get a new cpu and motherboard.There is no problem in your monitor connectors and they really don't matter it's just the cpu and mobo.You can get cheap deals.
December 29, 2007 4:25:15 PM

rahul_cracker said:
hi
The main Problem is the CPU if the cpu can't churn out enough power for the GPU and the Ram can't help it either.See the problem is not supporting intel or amd your CPU is quiet dead it's too slow for that 8800 you have.Get a new cpu and motherboard.There is no problem in your monitor connectors and they really don't matter it's just the cpu and mobo.You can get cheap deals.


How fast would my CPU need to be for my 8800? 3ghz?

And my question was not understood, i need to know how ram is connected to the CPU, and how ram is effected when overclocking my CPU.
December 29, 2007 4:33:55 PM

I really don't think that CPU would be a bottle neck @ 2.7ghz.

I kinda suspect perhaps settings in the Nvidia Control Panel may be setup wrong, or the driver is just having problems. Not sure what to advise to do or change.
December 29, 2007 4:37:37 PM

Grimmy said:
I really don't think that CPU would be a bottle neck @ 2.7ghz.

I kinda suspect perhaps settings in the Nvidia Control Panel may be setup wrong, or the driver is just having problems. Not sure what to advise to do or change.


How much performance should i be getting from my 8800 gt? Its not a high end card, is it normal for it to drop to 20-30 fps in crowded areas in cod 4 for example? Its running at 1280 by 1024 with everything set to high, except AA which is x2 instead of x4 and "Soften Smoke Edges".

In the control panel, the options are set to "Let the 3d application decide", the only thing i ran from the control panel was the optimization wizard which to my knowledge only changes gamma values.
December 29, 2007 4:42:49 PM

MY AMD 4400+X2 combined with a ATI 2900pro card scores higher than your rig in 3Dmark 06.
Your Spec is better than mine, so your score should be higher than what you stated. Your CPU will bottleneck a 8800GT somewhat, but not by that much! There is probably something else effecting your performance?
December 29, 2007 4:43:28 PM

thegatekeeper said:
Ok, so after some benchmarks, i came to the conclusion that my 8800gt is not performing like it should be. Cranking up all the settings in cod 4 for example, at 1280 by 1024 res, and my fps is between 20-60. Shouldn't it be a constant 100 or something? My 3dmark06 score was also a little over 6100, iv seen people saying they have a score of 10,000 with their 8800gt! Now my first thought was that i didn't have enough ram, so i increased it from 1 gig to 3 gig (using Corsair performance modules), and still, minor increase.

So it only leaves one thing that could be bottlenecking my GPU, my CPU! I am using an AMD 5200+ overclocked slightly to 2.7 from 2.6.

And now my question, when overclocking a CPU, how exactly is Ram involved? I'v seen ram mentioned a couple of time when people speak of CPU overclocking, but iv never actually seen a guide that gave all the details.

Also, would increasing my CPU to, for example, 2.9 or 3.0 help my CPU not bottlenecking my card, or do AMD and Nvidia cards just don't mix well?

Thanks a lot for helpful replies.

Specs:

8800GT oc2 from BFG running at 680/1680/980
Crosshair motherboard with the latest bios/drivers
Raptor x
3 gig ram from Corsair, running at 4-4-4-12
Seasonic S12 600W Silent ATX2.0 Power Supply


Ok, first things first. The CPU bottle necking people talk about is an absolute myth, IF your processor was made within the past two years you have plenty of horsepower to run todays games. CPU bottle necking only exists if you run at resolutions BELOW 12X10.

Ok, and here is a great guide to overclocking...

http://www.overclock.net/amd-general/91-ultimate-overcl...


December 29, 2007 4:59:34 PM

brett_monkey said:
Ok, first things first. The CPU bottle necking people talk about is an absolute myth, IF your processor was made within the past two years you have plenty of horsepower to run todays games. CPU bottle necking only exists if you run at resolutions BELOW 12X10.

Ok, and here is a great guide to overclocking...

http://www.overclock.net/amd-general/91-ultimate-overcl...


Thanks for the guide mate, so i'm guessing my card is defective then?
December 29, 2007 5:06:41 PM

I hate to say this, but your numbers point to your card being a 8600GT.
December 29, 2007 5:07:56 PM

shabodah said:
I hate to say this, but your numbers point to your card being a 8600GT.


Nah i'm sure its an 8800gt, should i take it back and exchange it then?
December 29, 2007 5:19:10 PM

thegatekeeper said:
Nah i'm sure its an 8800gt, should i take it back and exchange it then?


There has got to be something going on either with it, or with your settings, then. Both CPU cores are showing up to your OS, right?
December 29, 2007 5:26:47 PM

This is all the information i think is relevant to the problem:






Slot 1 and 2 are the same.

Slot 3 and 4 are the same.


I do not have enaugh computer knowlage to see what the problem is, but maybe someone can help me?

Tell me if i need to post any more information about my computer.

It could just be a bad card after all.
December 29, 2007 5:40:56 PM

brett_monkey said:
Have you downloaded the latest driver for the 8800GT? It can be found here..

http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us

Also, what operating system are you running?

If you are running Vista, here are some links to some 'hot fixes' that you might need to install, to improve your performance.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/windows_vista_hotfixes.htm...


Yes i have the latest driver, and i'm running windows XP with the latest updates.

I know this sounds off, but could it be that auto-overclocking tool i'm using for my CPU? It's called AI-Booster and came with my motherboard.
December 29, 2007 5:55:22 PM

Hmm, things should be running great for you. Are you experiencing low performance in other games also?

December 29, 2007 6:05:28 PM

brett_monkey said:
Hmm, things should be running great for you. Are you experiencing low performance in other games also?


In my opinion, yes i am getting crappy performance, but i don't know what to expect from my card exactly. I mean, in bioshock there where times where i couldn't even aim properly because the game got so choppy (15 fps), even thou everything was set to high, i expect my 8800gt to handle it. Something must be wrong, i should be getting more than a 1000 point increase in 3dmark06 when upgrading from an 7900gto.
December 29, 2007 6:24:39 PM

Ok, you should be able to run Bioshock smoothly on max settings with your setup. Have you tried to defrag the hard drive since you installed your new games? And ran the diskcleaner? A good utility to clean gunk from your system is called CCleaner. Found here...

http://www.ccleaner.com/download
December 29, 2007 6:34:53 PM

brett_monkey said:
Ok, you should be able to run Bioshock smoothly on max settings with your setup. Have you tried to defrag the hard drive since you installed your new games? And ran the diskcleaner? A good utility to clean gunk from your system is called CCleaner. Found here...

http://www.ccleaner.com/download


Yes i ran all those tools AND gave it a format. I am also getting some defects (which points out more to a defective card) on the screen (didn't have them with the 7900gt), i made a thread about it here:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/53417-29-distortion

December 29, 2007 6:50:24 PM

Do you know how hot your 8800GT is getting while you are playing games?
These cards tend to run on the hot side. If the temps got too high during a game that would cause the distortion you are seeing.

Also have you tried to plug in a friends monitor to see if you can repeat the problem.

In the end it could be a defective card.
December 29, 2007 7:13:45 PM

brett_monkey said:
Do you know how hot your 8800GT is getting while you are playing games?
These cards tend to run on the hot side. If the temps got too high during a game that would cause the distortion you are seeing.

Also have you tried to plug in a friends monitor to see if you can repeat the problem.

In the end it could be a defective card.


The maximum i have seen it go up to is 80 degrees, that is at 680/1680/980 and 80% fan speed. The distortion is there all the time even when my card is at 48 degrees, but i belive that is because the card was meant to work with DVi and i am using VGA. My brother has a monitor, but its a CRT so i cant really test it as mine is a TFT.

I will take it back to their shop when they open again, i am pretty sure its defective.

Just out of curiosity, what frames per second count should i be getting with my card (and my other specs), would a 100 constant be too much to ask for with everything set to high? (In games like cod 4, bioshock etc)

Thank you for you interest in my problem.
December 29, 2007 7:29:07 PM

100 constant would be too much to ask for. In Bioshock you should average at least 50-60FPS at that resolution on max setting. Anything above 60FPS really makes no difference, since most will not notice any change. I am not too sure about COD4. Have a good day.
December 29, 2007 7:34:54 PM

brett_monkey said:
100 constant would be too much to ask for. In Bioshock you should average at least 50-60FPS at that resolution on max setting. Anything above 60FPS really makes no difference, since most will not notice any change. I am not too sure about COD4. Have a good day.


Anything about 60 is useless to me actually since my tft doesn't refresh more than 60. Its just that i saw some benchmarks of the game with scores as much as 90 etc, i know its an average, but my sluggish performance seems incomparable to those results. I'm going to disable the CPU overclocking utility and overclock my CPU the hard way, just to make sure its the card and not some bug from the program.

Later.
December 29, 2007 8:21:41 PM

I got to overclocking my CPU, these are the steps i did until now:

Found my Memory Memclock option in the bios, set it to the lowest (Something like DDR2 400 i think)

Set my HyperThread option to 3x (It was 1x before, i think it should have been more)

Increased my CPU FSB to 210 (from 200 default)

This made resulted in a total of 2730 CPU speed.

I am running Prime95 torture test as we speak, CPU usage is at about 75% on both cores, and temp is at 36 degress atm. I will let it run for about an hour, and if it doesnt find any problem i will increase the FSB by another 10.
December 29, 2007 10:57:20 PM

I did some more work on the CPU, these are my final results taken from CPU-Z:

Processor 1 (ID = 0)
Number of cores 2
Number of threads 2 (max 2)
Name AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+
Codename Windsor
Specification AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5200+
Package Socket AM2 (940)
CPUID F.3.2
Extended CPUID F.43
Brand ID 4
Core Stepping JH-F2
Technology 90 nm
Core Speed 2886.2 MHz (13.0 x 222.0 MHz)
HT Link speed 222.0 MHz
Stock frequency 2600 MHz
Instructions sets MMX (+), 3DNow! (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, x86-64
L1 Data cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L2 cache 2 x 1024 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size
FID/VID Control yes
max FID 13.0x
max VID 1.350 V
Features XD, VT
K8 Thermal sensor yes
K8 Revision ID 5.2
Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 0
Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 1
Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 2
Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 3

How does it look? I don't really know what "HT Link speed 222.0 MHz" does exactly, apart that it stands for Hyper Thread, but is it good at that value? I set it to 4x in the bios, can go up to 5x but i figured it wouldn't be safe.

And why is my ram running like this:

Memory Frequency 412.3 MHz (CPU/7)

Shouldn't it be running at 800 MHz?

Edit: Oh and i didn't touch the voltage just to let you know.
December 30, 2007 5:59:15 AM

i think its the mobos...i once had a 8600gts on 650i with e6750 and it would hang on games once every 6 seconds, then luckily the mobos burnt. I got a new one ,P5B, and saw none of this problem. Or maybe it was the other new parts i got with the P5B; sound card, and a psu. I dont think you need to overclock, a 5200 isnt an ancient cpu anyways.
December 30, 2007 11:34:50 AM

I ran 3d mark again, there is definetly something wrong.

Lets start with my score:



And here is how my score compared to similar systems:



What the hell, look at how crap my system is performing. Here are the specs from the guy with the 10226 score:

"Graphics Chipset NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Graphics Card Vendor
Driver Name NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Driver Version 6.14.11.6902
Driver Status WHQL - FM Approved
Linked display adapters No
Video Memory 256 MB"

Lol and he is even running the test at a higher resolution than me. So this is either :

A) my bios is screwed
B) the card is bad

The CPU scores are good, just the graphics.

I will try flashing my bios with the beta one from Asus, see if it helps, and i will flash it directly from the bios this time and not from windows.
December 30, 2007 1:15:42 PM

YES, i knew it was the bloody bios.

Here is my score after flashing from dos:



I cant believe the bios was causing all of this, it must have gotten corrupted as i had flashed it from windows.

The scores look ok now, and i also noticed that i now have more overclocking options in the CPU section, it was something about the cpu HT link with north bridge and the south bridge, i just proceeded to set it to 5x. Is this safe?

Also CPU-Z now shows my HT link as 1000 instead of the previous 250.

Thank you all for helping.
December 30, 2007 10:13:36 PM

not too clued up on overclocking AMD but i think you are not supposed to exceed 1000HT 5x200, if raising FSB lower the HT link to 4?
December 30, 2007 10:58:24 PM

This is how it is atm:



Should i lower it? I have 2 HT options, one to the North bride and one to the South bridge in this new bios.
December 31, 2007 9:14:17 AM

not sure about northbridge & southbridge HT options, what is the highest multi you can set to?
December 31, 2007 9:32:43 AM

goodie said:
not sure about northbridge & southbridge HT options, what is the highest multi you can set to?


5x, which is what it is set to.
!