AMD closed at $7.68!!! I think the end is coming near.

Sorry about the post if this is in the wrong forum. I have lost all hope completely for AMD. I love AMD; they are (or were rather) a great company. My X2 4200+ socket 939 is ticking away beautifully. Even though AMD has been getting better about their products (heck, they couldn't get much worse) their stock is not falling; it's plain crashing. Check out this link:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=amd

What do you guys think is gonna happen with this? And someone who understands stocks, what would this make as the total value of the shares in the market? And please, let's not start a flame thread; I am posting this so people can see what is Happening with their stock if they haven't been keeping up with it. Thanks.

~Monster :bounce:
42 answers Last reply
More about closed coming near
  1. let's hope AMD doesn't cease exist.it would be terrible with intel having the monopoly in the cpu business - no more new innovations,no more competition and exorbitant prices - bad for us consumers.
  2. Based on stock price and # of outstanding shares, AMD market cap is about $4.26 billion.

    Compare that to Intel's market cap of $151.5 billion.
  3. Well, as they are in a very tough position at the moment. The German gov even pumped like 350 million Euro into the company so it wouldn' go into bankruptcy.

    All their products have been delayed because of technical flaws, this will ensure intel gets a greater market share. Hence amd will sell less and make not the ammount of profit they predicted.

    from http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071217/amd_mover.html?.v=2
    "AMD, which has been hit by a series of delays in key products, acknowledged its shortcomings at the analyst meeting and said it aims to reach profitability in the second half of 2008 after losses in every quarter of 2007."

    Anyway, stocks aren't doing that great last couple of weeks, everything is going down now.

    Best thing to happen is AMD getting a new management which will take some drastic decisions so they can turn the tide
  4. Disclaimer: I know little about the financial world.

    Now that that's out of the way, it is certain that AMD is... not in great shape. But setting AMD aside, I'd like to make a little general statement. Market capitalization is not the most "real" figure in the world. Compare the market caps of these companies for fun! Apple (AAPL), Intel (INTC), Ford Motor (F), General Motors (GM), and Google (GOOG). Apple's worth more than Intel! Google trounces both Intel and Apple! Google is more than six times the value of GM and Ford combined! See how wacky the stock market gets? That aside, I suppose that within reason, low share prices for shares that were once high does suggest a problem.

    My only point is that you shouldn't use the value of the shares or the market capitalization of a company as the sole indicator of health. Sometimes you'll be right, sometimes you'll be wrong, and sometimes strange things happen. The stock market is more volatile than RAM prices.

    Since it seems the trendy thing to do these days is to bash AMD and to bash AMD supporters, I'd like to quickly save myself and say that I'm typing this on a computer with an Intel processor.

    Oh, and I realize bringing this up might not be the brightest idea, but regarding Hector's recent raise? Par for the course. Look up any CEO in recent history. Look up their salaries. Look up when they're "fired." The company usually makes a press release saying that the CEO has left "to pursue other interests" or something to that effect. Also, the CEO gets a severance package several times greater than what most of us will ever make in our lifetimes. Par for the course.
  5. Anonissimus said:
    W

    Anyway, stocks aren't doing that great last couple of weeks, everything is going down now.



    Actually no.

    From AMD Closes Below $8: Wall Street not Happy with Delays and posted by Technology Coordinator:


  6. Jaguar,

    The Dow isn't really the best indication of the stock market in general. AMD is indeed getting hit, but the market is in major turmoil right now. You need to look at what the market has been doing since August to really see what has been going on.

    That aside, AMD has been hit harder, but I don't think it's just because of delays, I think alot of people are scared of stock dilution, and debt to equity ratio. Then tack on the errata that AMD ordered to stop ship on Phenoms (which came out after that thread was started) and AMD stock is sliding.

    So much more stuff was going on with AMD other than the delays, that I think it was really a combination of many things, and not just one thing.
  7. The following is all three major indexes (Dow Jones, Nasdaq, S&P 500) compared to AMD over a span of 6 month. Everything seems fine until mid-November.

  8. weskurtz81 said:
    Jaguar,

    The Dow isn't really the best indication of the stock market in general. AMD is indeed getting hit, but the market is in major turmoil right now. You need to look at what the market has been doing since August to really see what has been going on.

    That aside, AMD has been hit harder, but I don't think it's just because of delays, I think alot of people are scared of stock dilution, and debt to equity ratio. Then tack on the errata that AMD ordered to stop ship on Phenoms (which came out after that thread was started) and AMD stock is sliding.

    So much more stuff was going on with AMD other than the delays, that I think it was really a combination of many things, and not just one thing.


    This guys got it spot on. AMD is in a shaky position, has alot of debt and has been recently hit with delays in releasing its new mainstay product. Apply these criteria to any firm in just about any sector and in these uncertain times the stock price will fall and fall and fall. Until q4 results are published it could very likely keep sliding. Only when the fixed Phenoms are out will the stock have any chance of recovering.
  9. jaguarskx said:
    The following is all three major indexes (Dow Jones, Nasdaq, S&P 500) compared to AMD over a span of 6 month. Everything seems fine until mid-November.

    http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/z?s=%5EGSPC&t=6m&q=l&l=on&z=m&c=AMD,%5EIXIC,%5EDJI&a=v&p=s


    Thats when investors lost their nerve over anything that looks shaky. The world banking system in general for instance.
  10. spoonboy said:
    This guys got it spot on. AMD is in a shaky position, has alot of debt and has been recently hit with delays in releasing its new mainstay product. Apply these criteria to any firm in just about any sector and in these uncertain times the stock price will fall and fall and fall. Until q4 results are published it could very likely keep sliding. Only when the fixed Phenoms are out will the stock have any chance of recovering.


    Based on a total of 623 companies amongst the three indexes AMD is performing below average. Of course if all 623 companies are experiencing the same problems AMD is experiencing then they should all take a nose dive. Yes, the problems in this situation is specific to AMD, but that's the point. The problems with AMD is not indicative of the entire market which is why it is under performing the indexes. Investor are always skiddish, it's not a symptom only for AMD investors. Uncertainly creates fear of losing (more) money. Do you think the average investor loves uncertainty?

    If AMD was not in a "shaky position" then yeah, the stock price would not have plummeted, but the reality is that AMD is in a "shaky position". If it were possible for companies never to suffer from a "shaky position" then that would be pangea for all investors (in the land of fantasy).

    Below is how AMD compares to the Russell 2000 which represent 2,000 small cap companies:



    How about the NYSE composite of 2,000 large cap companies:



    That's a total of 4,623 companies amongst the 5 indices that on average outperforms AMD. Note: Not necessarily 4,623 unique companies since it is possible the same companies can be included in multiple indices.

    Here's London's FTSE 100 index vs. AMD for an international flavor:



    I would provide a comparison of the Russell MidCap Index to AMD, but that's only up to 5 days of history.
  11. I think maybe you misunderstood me. My reason for saying that the DJI is no longer really the BEST market indicator had nothing to do with the AMD stock slide, that was just a piece of friendly advice.

    As far as the AMD stock slide comments. My point is that it is NOT only the CPU stop ship that caused the problem (which didn't hit the press until DECEMBER), it was MANY things that caused the problems. Just look at all the negative news that has come out about AMD in the last month, it's so much more than just the CPU "delay" as it was first thought.
  12. Furthermore, if AMD is still around in 6 or 8 months time, they will be in a world of hurt when Intel release Nehalem.
    According to early reports from intel, nehalem will have a performance gain over C2D larger than C2D was over the old netburst architecture.
  13. AMD is factually bankrupt.
  14. How do you figure Ycon? Just curious what calculation you did to figure that out.
  15. AMD has been a lot lower. They closed at $3.51 on october 4th 2002. Theyre still in the game for now.
  16. Ycon said:
    AMD is factually bankrupt.


    So true, if you removed the value of the ATI division, AMD would be in the hole. :ouch: That is, if you removed what AMD paid for ATI. At this point, in my opinion, only a miracle will save AMD, unless it gets so cheap that someone else buys it.

    Hey, Warren Buffett, want a computer chip company cheap? You can afford it out of petty cash.

    One thing to note on the bad side. As some have speculated, without AMD, Intel would either slow production and/or raise prices because of lack of competition. Seems that Intel has done that, as it has put a delay on a few of its chips citing that there is no reason to sell them due to a lack of pressure from AMD, according to an article in Digitimes. We may be starting a journey back to high prices. Hope not.
  17. Sailer,

    What exact calculations do you do to figure out if AMD is basically bankrupt?

    The reason I ask is because I thought that you have to take into account all assets, and then compare it to debt. I am not very keen on accounting, so feel free to enlighten me.
  18. I think AMD can make it, they are putting out decent graphics cards, and do well for a value CPU segment. May be that someone will buy them and start releasing their stuff as entry level until it could be built back up.
  19. I wonder how hard for them it would be to make a dual core sempron based off of the x2's they have now, maybe just for a little quick cash.
  20. They deffinitly seem like that are on the breaking point of going bankrupt. I say this only becuase of how much they have lost this year... after selling old equipment they still lost some $611 million. In Q2 they lost about $600 million, and now they are up to $1,211,000,000 thats over 1 billion lost!. In Q3 the lost 226 million (lost in 2007 is up to $1,437,000,000). Q4 will not look good for them either.

    I think they are close... not there yet, but very close.
  21. It's a good time to buy AMD stock, they'll stay affloat for a while. Things will get better after Fusion around 2009-2010, so it's just last few years were not exactly AMD years. They said they will be profitable again in 2008, 2008 hasn't even started. So what if stock fell a few dollar, does it mean the company is going to be bankrupt? Worse come to worst they'll sell out to Arabs, big deal.
  22. Don't quote me on this as I've only heard it through word of mouth through a friend employed at ATI up here in Canada, but the rumors are that AMD has deliberately taken a huge hit and has actually claimed losses that have not already happened yet.

    The reason being is that they would rather tank this year and get it over with and thus raise their profitability over the next few years rather than have a slew of mediocre years of marginal gains.

    Just a rumor though, so take it at face value.
  23. weskurtz81 said:
    Sailer,

    What exact calculations do you do to figure out if AMD is basically bankrupt?

    The reason I ask is because I thought that you have to take into account all assets, and then compare it to debt. I am not very keen on accounting, so feel free to enlighten me.


    I'll try to explain my thoughts. I'm separating the AMD and ATI divisions when I use the term bankrupt. AMD paid over $5 for ATI, as I remember. I don't have the exact figure handy at the moment. At today's stock price, AMD is worth about $4.60 billion, plus it has the debt for ATI to be serviced, still nearly $5 billion. So the company is worth less then the debt that it owes. Again, last I read, AMD has about $2 billion of cash on hand, so it is solvent by a small amount. I also separate in my reason actual bankruptcy and basic bankrupty. In actual bankruptcy, there is no money left in the bank to pay the bill collectors. In basic bankruptcy, there is money at the moment, but the bank account is going down every month and it is only a matter of time that the bank account is empty.

    OK, AMD isn't quite bankrupt, but AMD is still bleeding money. It was estimated to loose .49 per share in Q4 before it took the write down for ATI. With 603 million shares, that .49 loss amounts to $295 million. Including the write down from ATI, it will be a lot worse, but how bad isn't known yet. The next few quarters are estimated with losses of over .30 cents per share at best. That does not take into consideration any effects of the general slowdown in the US economy or any further problems within AMD. It assumes that AMD will produce and get to market the B3 stepping chips, etc. These continued losses will effectively wipe out any cash reserves that AMD has. If the stock price for AMD continues to slide, it will be in major trouble before long, if it isn't there yet.

    Thus my reasoning that to look at AMD in the total view, it is basically bankrupt, though it is not actually bankrupt at this point in time. My sincere desire is that somehow the revised B3 chips get out in a decent timeframe, and that they sell well. But even Hector said at the analyst's meeting that he doesn't expect a profit until Q4 09, and if the total economy of the country continues to be troubled, he may be a bit too optomistic. AMD desperately needs some positive cash flow, as everyone can acknowedge. Whether or not it will get that, no one really knows at this point.
  24. Ibanezrg570 said:
    Don't quote me on this as I've only heard it through word of mouth through a friend employed at ATI up here in Canada, but the rumors are that AMD has deliberately taken a huge hit and has actually claimed losses that have not already happened yet.

    The reason being is that they would rather tank this year and get it over with and thus raise their profitability over the next few years rather than have a slew of mediocre years of marginal gains.

    Just a rumor though, so take it at face value.


    I've heard this as well from some stock analysts, plus a reason that by taking the loss now, they can use it in their 5 year tax averages and thus get decrease their payments from their former, profitable years. In other words, they get a tax refund for those years. Can't say for sure what is the real reason, though.

    Taking the loss now would artificailly make the next quarters in 2009 look better, even though in agragate they wouldn't be. That would imply a hope that by looking more profitable than they actually will be, they can attract more investors. It may work, though I don't know for sure.
  25. weskurtz81 said:
    Jaguar,

    The Dow isn't really the best indication of the stock market in general. AMD is indeed getting hit, but the market is in major turmoil right now. You need to look at what the market has been doing since August to really see what has been going on.

    That aside, AMD has been hit harder, but I don't think it's just because of delays, I think alot of people are scared of stock dilution, and debt to equity ratio. Then tack on the errata that AMD ordered to stop ship on Phenoms (which came out after that thread was started) and AMD stock is sliding.

    So much more stuff was going on with AMD other than the delays, that I think it was really a combination of many things, and not just one thing.


    The market is in major turmoil right now because of the sub-prime problem and all of defaults on mortgage backed securities, which I think is having little effect on AMD. Industrial, Consumer Staples, and most other sectors are rebounding after the Federal interest rate cut. If you really want to use a index that actually has some meaning I would direct you to the S&P as it is considered to be the bellwether by investors. You could just use a ETF like SPDR's (XLK). They typically offer a better view of a sector especially if you want to benchmark a company to its competitors. I am not sure what you mean by stock dilution. They were able to acquire ATI without having to issue extra equity (common stock). Why would they do that now seeing as that is the very last way a corporation would want to raise money? And I think that after a major acquisition like ATI there would be a high D/E ratio. You have to ask though... what is the D/E to the sector and what is it to its competitors. A D/E ratio is useless unless you have historical values to compare it to. AMD had to take on more debt for their acquisition because they use most of their retained earnings (cash and cash equivalents) from previous years to finance research and development. In 2006 they spent over $1.2 billion in R&D expense.

    In case anyone was wondering I got most of my values from their 2006 10-K which does not reflect their true financial health as of this date. I could have looked through their 10-Qs for the past three quarters, but I am at work and my lunch break is almost over so I used the quarterly data provided by yahoo.com

    Here are two links to the AMD’s SEC filings if you guys want to explore their financials on your own

    http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/secfilings.asp?symbol=AMD
    and
    http://annualreport.amd.com/
  26. Ahhh would you guys look stuff up and just stop pulling stuff out of your A$$e$ all of the time.

    If it just meant you could not pay your bills (debt) then a lot of us would be considered bankrupt.

    Bankruptcy is a legally declared inability or impairment of ability of an individual or organizations to pay their creditors. Creditors may file a bankruptcy petition against a debtor ("involuntary bankruptcy") in an effort to recoup a portion of what they are owed. In the majority of cases, however, bankruptcy is initiated by the debtor (a "voluntary bankruptcy" that is filed by the bankrupt individual or organization).
  27. sailer said:
    Thus my reasoning that to look at AMD in the total view, it is basically bankrupt, though it is not actually bankrupt at this point in time. My sincere desire is that somehow the revised B3 chips get out in a decent timeframe, and that they sell well. But even Hector said at the analyst's meeting that he doesn't expect a profit until Q4 09, and if the total economy of the country continues to be troubled, he may be a bit too optomistic. AMD desperately needs some positive cash flow, as everyone can acknowedge. Whether or not it will get that, no one really knows at this point.


    They could always divest ATI... Ha ha

    sailer said:
    I've heard this as well from some stock analysts, plus a reason that by taking the loss now, they can use it in their 5 year tax averages and thus get decrease their payments from their former, profitable years. In other words, they get a tax refund for those years. Can't say for sure what is the real reason, though.

    Taking the loss now would artificailly make the next quarters in 2009 look better, even though in agragate they wouldn't be. That would imply a hope that by looking more profitable than they actually will be, they can attract more investors. It may work, though I don't know for sure.


    Companies have tried to do this in the past. It rarely works with institutional investors. It may fool a couple of wanna-be day traders though.
  28. caamsa said:
    Ahhh would you guys look stuff up and just stop pulling stuff out of your A$$e$ all of the time.

    If it just meant you could not pay your bills (debt) then a lot of us would be considered bankrupt.

    Bankruptcy is a legally declared inability or impairment of ability of an individual or organizations to pay their creditors. Creditors may file a bankruptcy petition against a debtor ("involuntary bankruptcy") in an effort to recoup a portion of what they are owed. In the majority of cases, however, bankruptcy is initiated by the debtor (a "voluntary bankruptcy" that is filed by the bankrupt individual or organization).


    There are several forms of bankruptcy, the most common being Chapters 11 and 13, which by their very numbers imply that there are several others besides these two.

    I myself have never been unable to pay my bills, so have never been bankrupt. I further doubt that "a lot of us" implying a lot of the people here, "would be considered bankrupt". As long as a person or company can pay its bills in a timely fashion, then there is no bankruptcy. AMD has been staving off bankruptcy in a variety of ways; refinancing loans, getting investment from an Arab government, and receiving gift like support from the German government among others.

    I don't mean to say that AMD will go into bankruptcy court. As its value desends below its debts, that would become a last desperate act for its investors, but it surely is playing close to that possibility in the future.
  29. @ weskurtz:
    Ask AMD tomorrow to pay their debts in any possible way. Will they be able to do it? No. So at least by european banks standards AMD would be classified bankrupt.
  30. tgboyes1 said:

    Companies have tried to do this in the past. It rarely works with institutional investors. It may fool a couple of wanna-be day traders though.


    Yes, it does rarely work for institutional investors. If, and only if, that is what AMD is attempting, then the idea will most likely fail. Thus my sceptacism. But in no way can I say for sure what AMD is thinking in this.
  31. Ycon,

    So, any company that has more debt than equity is Bankrupt? Does that apply to consumers as well? In Europe people aren't allowed to borrow money unless they already have the cash to pay for it?
  32. sailer said:
    There are several forms of bankruptcy, the most common being Chapters 11 and 13, which by their very numbers imply that there are several others besides these two.

    I myself have never been unable to pay my bills, so have never been bankrupt. I further doubt that "a lot of us" implying a lot of the people here, "would be considered bankrupt". As long as a person or company can pay its bills in a timely fashion, then there is no bankruptcy. AMD has been staving off bankruptcy in a variety of ways; refinancing loans, getting investment from an Arab government, and receiving gift like support from the German government among others.

    I don't mean to say that AMD will go into bankruptcy court. As its value desends below its debts, that would become a last desperate act for its investors, but it surely is playing close to that possibility in the future.


    I agree with you.....110% ;) My point is that people use the term too loosely.
  33. Ycon said:
    @ weskurtz:
    Ask AMD tomorrow to pay their debts in any possible way. Will they be able to do it? No. So at least by european banks standards AMD would be classified bankrupt.


    Ha ha... That silly. GM would be bankrupt under those standards... oh wait I think I might need a better example.
  34. I think the big problem is the downturn in the economy and chip sales aren't going to be as strong in 2008. Intel will be strong enough to weather it while AMD won't be. It's a shame...
  35. MisterChef said:
    I think the big problem is the downturn in the economy and chip sales aren't going to be as strong in 2008. Intel will be strong enough to weather it while AMD won't be. It's a shame...


    I agree. If the general economy stays bad in 2008, AMD will continue to suffer and may die. At some point, people start making choices over buying food, paying the rent, medical bills, etc, and when that happens, buying a new computer becomes the least of their worries. Its easy to forget that years ago, very few people had computers at all, much less bought new ones every couple years.

    A similar thing happened to the car industry back in the 1950's and 60's. Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, and a lot of others died when the markets went bad. Only the strongest survived, and they aren't doing well at all now. AMD could all too easily join the list of companies that got left behind. But I still hope a miracle happens for them.
  36. One thing you guys need to consider, the new Asian markets are starting to boom, so not only will exports help float our general economy, but they will likely help AMD and Intel as well.
  37. sailer said:

    Hey, Warren Buffett, want a computer chip company cheap? You can afford it out of petty cash.



    Buffett only buys into things he understands. He does not understand computers (from an article I read about the tech bust and whay he didn't invest in tech. 1 Article before the tech bust and the other after.) So no saving from him. :P

    AMD is in a spot of trouble yes. Banrupt? No where near.... yet. The market for tech is volitile as most people who invest in tech are "emotional" investors. They see/ hear of something, see a minor drop etc and panic. they get out of it and thus prices drop. Another type of investor that focuses on tech are high risk investors looking for the next big thing. When they "see" a fall they run.

    So lets see what the news has been like lately for AMD/ ATI markets. AMD's new chips have flaws and can't compete with current 65nm Intel chips let alone next generation 45nm chips. "Panic"+ sell= share prices fall. ATi newest cards no match for current nVidia cards with next gen nVidia 2 months away. "Panic"+ sell= share prices fall.

    So how does the future look? Bleak right now. AMD got lazy being at the top for so long. (obviously not in market share but they were gaining) Now they are gonna have to work for it. And considering the resources Intel is throwing at R&D it will be hard. One think I belive happened is they grew to fast. With supply deals with computer vendors and ATI aquisition they just weren't ready for the added demands. Its one thing to be considered having the best product out there and quite another to actually be able to share it with EVERYONE. If demand grows by 1000% and your not ready for it you will fail to improve as all your resources go into meeting demand. Its the same reason we have Windows OS and not better options in the mainsteam. A small company just can't send out a better OS with support for millions of users. They need to try to do it 1 step at time. Microsoft can do it 1 million steps at a time so who do you thinks gonna win?

    I figure AMD/ATi is going to focus on a market segment (server, mobile etc) for a bit to regain some momentum and market shares/ money then start to expand like they did before. Share prices will be low, they will launch something sweet and our emotional investors will buy shares like no tommorow. This will give them some capital to work with. I also think they will sell off ATi within the next 2 years.

    Just like I'm waiting for it to hit under $5 before I buy.

    IMO anyways :D
  38. Ycon said:
    @ weskurtz:
    Ask AMD tomorrow to pay their debts in any possible way. Will they be able to do it? No. So at least by european banks standards AMD would be classified bankrupt.


    Ask the US goverment the same. Yet there they still are. As are alot of goverments.

    Banckruptcy is not about not being able to pay of their creditors. Its about about NEVER being able to pay their creditors and their operation costs etc. Bankruptcy has many levels. One of which is the ability to go into bankruptcy protection to stop creditors from comming after you for money. This is to give one time to gather resources/ money etc and make deals (repay $0.50 on the dollar etc) and save themselves.

    There are cases of goverments basically giving a company welfare money to keep it going as well. Like here in Canada we have a huge company that the goverment has been giving money to for years.
  39. I wish I could win the lottery, I would but it all. They screwed up, but they will be back with a vengence. If they are smart and get back on top they need to keep prices way low so everyone will go back to them. What hurt the most was Intels price srtagedy.

    Most likely though if they get on top they will price gouge and still have trouble.
  40. I'm going to wait for it to be one of them penny stocks and throw $500 in to it ;)
  41. niz said:
    Furthermore, if AMD is still around in 6 or 8 months time, they will be in a world of hurt when Intel release Nehalem.
    According to early reports from intel, nehalem will have a performance gain over C2D larger than C2D was over the old netburst architecture.

    What makes you think Intel will release nehalem as planned. They are allready delaying the mainstream penryn quads because amd doesn't have competing product.
    IF (big if) amd goes down I'd bet Intel will cut down on R&D and just keep making those penryns untill someone else comes along and takes the lead away from them
  42. Kari said:
    What makes you think Intel will release nehalem as planned. They are allready delaying the mainstream penryn quads because amd doesn't have competing product.
    IF (big if) amd goes down I'd bet Intel will cut down on R&D and just keep making those penryns untill someone else comes along and takes the lead away from them


    They will release it as planned. They have to otherwise the money they spent on developing it will be wasted. Also it was sitting on thier laurels that got them in trouble with AMD and now it has put AMD in thier current position.

    The smart thing for them to do is maintain thier current marketing plan and keep on releasing new products. This gives them a lead in market placement. Also since the release of faster and newer products lowers the price of previous versions this will make it harder for AMD to release anything at a competative price.

    For example; Lets say that when the 45nm's come out the QX serise suddenly drops to the price point of most Core2's. Now not only does AMD need to present a product that is at least superior to Core2's (which still hasn't happened) it has to be competative with the QX stuff. And then they are force to keep the price down to remain competitive thus limiting their profit margin and revenues to keep producing new products.

    Thats why I believe to survive they will have to start to focus on specific markets (server, mobile etc) to get
    re-established and earn back some consumer confidence.

    That my take anyways.
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