Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

really low end agp cards..

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
December 29, 2007 2:25:06 PM

Well here we go again.. 7600GT AGP 7800GS OC by BFG or some radeon card.. all with 256mb, wondering if the 2.66GHZ P4 will slow them down significantly?

More about : low end agp cards

December 29, 2007 3:27:14 PM

not significantly, but they will be slowed down a bit. depending on how much ram you have
December 29, 2007 3:52:23 PM

planning on inserting 2 gigs, so shouldn't be a problem. Thanks
Related resources
December 29, 2007 7:11:01 PM

You will probulay have a slight decrease in performance because of the clock speed of your cpu won't have a huge effect on the overall system
a c 130 U Graphics card
December 29, 2007 7:37:31 PM

I dont see there being a problem :) 
Mactronix
December 29, 2007 9:37:48 PM

Thank you, second opinions are always good..
December 29, 2007 10:09:06 PM

I recently purchased a ati x1650 xt 512mg ,and placed it in my p4 3.0 Gb fsb800 on a Asus p4p800 deluxe with 2.5 ddr 400mhz,and a 500w power supply.

I dont get no-where near the fps i should be getting ,i only get around 30 fps in games which as you know is very poor performance,so i dont ,know if the cpu is slowing down the videocard.

I updated the agp/gart driver , and went back to the 7.7 cat ati videodriver to see if i could get more fps in games ,but its still the same as before.

I know my pc can get double the fps that i am getting now ,and i have been racking my brian in trying to find the answer.

If you or anyone have any ideas i would really like to hear about it .

cheers mike
December 29, 2007 10:16:49 PM

Make sure the Radeon has 128bit (or higher) memory interface and GDDR3 if your comparing it to a 7600GT.
December 30, 2007 11:22:38 AM

mike27466 said:
I recently purchased a ati x1650 xt 512mg ,and placed it in my p4 3.0 Gb fsb800 on a Asus p4p800 deluxe with 2.5 ddr 400mhz,and a 500w power supply.

I dont get no-where near the fps i should be getting ,i only get around 30 fps in games which as you know is very poor performance,so i dont ,know if the cpu is slowing down the videocard.

I updated the agp/gart driver , and went back to the 7.7 cat ati videodriver to see if i could get more fps in games ,but its still the same as before.

I know my pc can get double the fps that i am getting now ,and i have been racking my brian in trying to find the answer.

If you or anyone have any ideas i would really like to hear about it .

cheers mike


I don't know anything about computers :p  but my first hint would be that your mobo doesnt support 512mb of vmemory.. some boards only support 256, look in the manual or on the website (try finding a manual through google if that doesn't work..) -- also you might want to open up a new thread as my P4 is FSB533 (model before yours which stopped at 3.06HT)

good luck.

December 30, 2007 12:06:41 PM

Thanks for your reply. I checked in the bios of my p4p800 and the only setting that related to the video memory is the "video aperture size'. Which in my bios only goes as high as 256 mg!

Is this the videocard memory setting you set for the videocard!?

I havent flashed or updated my bios yet I was wondering does anyone know if the Asus p4p800 deluxe motherboard have a aperture update in the flashing upates of the bios.

It would be a bonus if it does!!!!!!!!!!
December 30, 2007 12:47:53 PM

I'm sure that is onboard memory for the integrated video (and turbo memory, if your videocard is crappy enough), not for your dedicated video card. See if there is something that you can change to AGP as an option in the videa settings.
January 1, 2008 4:43:44 AM

does anyone know if the Asus p4p800 deluxe motherboard support 512mg videomemory!

maybe thats why i am getting poor performance in fps !!!
a b U Graphics card
January 1, 2008 5:01:38 AM

I had that board and I dont think it supports beyond 256MB unless there was some sort of BIOS update Im not aware of. This isnt too likely due to support going out on an older board.

I would go to the ASUS website and look up the latest BIOS and update then recheck your settings if you haven't already...
January 1, 2008 11:02:25 PM

I personally think the AGP bus drivers included in xp are broken to the degree that they are generalized to work on all hardware, and not optimized.
I personally wish they would dump the PCI-E bus and just give us a universal bus that has open standards and no royalties, so that hardware mfg's don't have to pay royalties and they can finally start making external graphics cards.

The AGP bus runs at 66mhz, so I would recommend overclocking it to 100mhz and see if you get any better FPS. If you do get better performance, then your bottleneck (at least one of them anyway) lies with the speed of the data being shuffled back and forth from memory to the AGP bus.

Also, I found by my own personal research, that using a PCI sound card that has EAX (like an XFI or Audigy) can seriously limit the frame rate of a game. I always disable sound using the control panel and try a game without sound to see how much of an improvement I get (and surprisingly, its usually quite a difference).
January 1, 2008 11:23:00 PM

I wouldn't recommend overclocking the AGP bus unless you really know what you are doing.
January 2, 2008 10:59:36 AM

Thanks guys for your imput! as i go back and forth doin tests on system memory and testing different bios settings ect .I am coming to the conclusion that the motherboard is not allowing the videocard do what it needs to do.

Like it was mensioned eariler that maybe the p4p800 deluxe motherboard is only allowing the videocard to use 256 vmemory ,I would flash the bios ,but i'm not going to if theres no point in any updated in system configuation.

I will keep researching to shead more light on this area of new videocard vs old motherboards.


To overclock the agp bus what is the process there! is there a webpage to study up on it.
a c 130 U Graphics card
January 2, 2008 11:51:34 AM

Cant beleive nobody has asked some basic questions before starting on about bioses and AGP port settings etcs, so what games are you getting these low FPS in what monitor size/res are you using any AA etc.
Mactronix :) 
January 2, 2008 1:31:07 PM

my main game at the moment is rfactor i have the settings set at :

average fps=30
1024res at 16bit
vsnc is off
texture filter =trinelear
textures,curcuit detail,other car detail ect is high not full.
no AA ,no full settings anywhere ,no overclocking,
dx7
refresh rate =75hz
15in lcd monitor
1Gb system ram (dual channelled)
3.0 Gb p4 cpu
x1650 xt 512mb ati
p4p800 deluxe mobo

a friend has a xp3.0 cpu athlon with kingston512 system ram (256x256)dual channelled.
9800pro 128mg and he gets an average of 70 fps! in rfactor with everything turned on full without vsnc!!!!
January 2, 2008 2:03:20 PM

Nik_I said:
not significantly, but they will be slowed down a bit. depending on how much ram you have


Only if he has below 1GB of ram. With a gig or more he should be fine.
a c 130 U Graphics card
January 2, 2008 3:07:50 PM

Couple more questions if you dont mind.
Are you playing online or offline as the server could be affecting things and does your friend have the same monitor/res set up as you.
One thing that does come to mind is that the 9800 is a SM2 card and the 1650 is SM3 which means its actually easier for the 9800 to render in some cases.
I had a 9800 when oblivion came out and had to change as it couldnt quite cut it but when i put the 1650xt in i didnt see a massive increase just looked prettier and ran a little faster.
Can you give us some more examples of Games/FPS Also if you have tried it on 3DM let us know what you got as i have the results mine got around here somewhere and will dig them out to compare.
Mactronix
January 3, 2008 8:14:02 AM

yes i'm playing on-line with 1500kb broadband phoneline connection.I dont get any boot out of servers or anything like that .With the montior question ,i'm not sure what my friend has as a monitor ,i dont think its a major size monitor ,maybe 18in or something like that.
As for games i get the same fps in all the games i play .

I only play rfactor ,cod2,blitzkrieg2 ,silent hunter 4 .

I will do a 3d mark test tonight and post the results here.
January 3, 2008 1:29:31 PM

Your CPU should be passable for those games.

Your best bet is probably the $112 Radeon 2600 XT on newegg... faster than the 7600 GT and 7800 GS. Only hitch is for AGP, you're going to want to use the 'Omega' drivers.
January 4, 2008 12:02:36 AM

cleeve said:
Your CPU should be passable for those games.

Your best bet is probably the $112 Radeon 2600 XT on newegg... faster than the 7600 GT and 7800 GS. Only hitch is for AGP, you're going to want to use the 'Omega' drivers.



I tryed the omega 4.8.442 omega driver and it only gave me 30 fps in the games i stated eariler ,but i tryed the 7.7 cat driver and i got 20 fps more giving me around 50-60 fps ,so for now i will go the 7.7

Do you think if i get my friends 2x 512 vdata 400nhz ram ,which he has just lying around would more ram and dual channell those to bring the whole system up to 2Gb ,instead of my 1Gb(2x512mg400mhz)at the moment . Would that bring out more performance of my x1650xt 512mg videocard

January 4, 2008 1:51:19 AM

I suggested the omegas with the 2600 XT AGP because I hear the regular cats don't work with the 2600 XT...
a c 130 U Graphics card
January 4, 2008 6:51:14 AM

The specs for the game are quite high and i would suspect from what you have provided that your system MAY be being restricted by your CPU.
If you drop the res down too 800X600 you should see an increase in FPS as the graphics card has less to do at this res. If you dont see an increase then i am probably right. Its not definate but this would indicate that the CPU isnt able to feed info to the Graphics card any quicker than it already is.
Unfortunatly i would think that as you have a 15 inch monitor you cant check it the other way ie increasing the res above 1024X768. This sometimes gives an increase by putting more emphasis on the Gaphics card in the system rather than the CPU.
As i said its only a possability and unless you can borrow your friends larger monitor will be hard for you to test properly.
I will download the game later as i still have the rig with the X1650 XT in it (well the kids do) and see how it runs, its close enough in spec to give us a good idea and also if you can post the 3DM score it will help 05 would be better as 06 is very CPU intensive it dosent matter though as i have results for both. :) 
Mactronix
a c 130 U Graphics card
January 4, 2008 6:26:00 PM

So much for that theory i just downloaded and tested the game on a system with 1 gig ram a Athalon 64 3000+ and a X1650XT got 127 FPS.
Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
January 4, 2008 6:53:47 PM

mike27466 said:
Thanks for your reply. I checked in the bios of my p4p800 and the only setting that related to the video memory is the "video aperture size'. Which in my bios only goes as high as 256 mg!

Is this the videocard memory setting you set for the videocard!?

I havent flashed or updated my bios yet I was wondering does anyone know if the Asus p4p800 deluxe motherboard have a aperture update in the flashing upates of the bios.

It would be a bonus if it does!!!!!!!!!!


I have worked with the exact same motherboard back in the day and yes you are limited to Graphics Aparture is 256 MB, but this is not your VRAM.
January 4, 2008 10:30:20 PM

I did some testing with the diffent res in games. Using rfactor as a benchmark ,I was getting fps at 1024 by 16 bit :

peak=75
average=52
low=42

theen i tested again at 800x600 at 16 bit

peak=78
average=60
low=48

One thing also in my bios settings of my system,i do have my overclock jumper settings set to standard, and auto.

So with qfan enabled and changing auto to turbo,and setting the standard to 5% overclock i managed to set the cpu speed from 3.0Gb to 3.15gb. I have ran this setting now for 6hrs without any problems.System is very stable and ok.

I will called my friend today and get another 2x512 400mhz vdata sticks of ram and bring the system up to 2Gb dual channel.

and test the system again.

I was wondering that game you used the get the 127 fps and what res you are running . It looks like to me its that athalon 64 3000+ is alot better for the x1650 videocard than the p4 3.0 cpu!!!

I can get my cpu up to 3.6Gb at 10% overclock in my bios settings which comes the bios when i purchased it.

so maybe the higher the cpu speed the more performance the videocard will do.

I will keep you posted on the changes and post somw more results soonas i get them.


a c 130 U Graphics card
January 5, 2008 8:44:17 AM

Well your testing would seem to show a problem with the CPU and yes a Athalon 3000+ is a better chip than a P4 3.0
I was using rfactor when i got the 127.
Was wondering why you are running DX7 and not DX9 ?
The numbers you are posting now are a lot better than the 30 you originally had so thats all good, Did you say what brand your 1650 is i didnt notice if you did its just that mine is a His one and they come overclocked from the factory so if yours is standard then it looks like you are about in the right ballpark for FPS. The 127 i posted was peak so allowing for the processor and overclocking diff on the graphics card it seems about right.
What setting changes seemed to make the most differance ?
Mactronix
January 5, 2008 11:42:29 AM

hi mactronic,
Thanks for your info my x1650 xt 512mg is the same brand as yours the HIS series. You mentioned about the overclocking ,I dont have the card overclocked ,if you have tested your x1650 and got good stable results from your card ,i would really like to hear what you have to say about those settings.

with the dx thing the only reason why i put the rfactor at dx7 is i thought i would get more fps than dx9.

i heard some of these newer videocards run better and faster at dx9. What is your apinion on this!.

I'm hoping also that if i double my system ram to 2Gb dual channel that might also get more fps from the videocard.


That impressive that you got 127 in rfactor .Man i should have got the athalon instead of the p4!

I was thinking to step up the voltage of the cpu but i would only do this when i am confedent and know what i am doing. But i know my cpu can run at 3.8gb ,but i will study to get the right voltage so it will be very stable.

what is your specs on the system you have to run rfactor as this may also be very benifial for me also

cheers friend Mike
a c 130 U Graphics card
January 5, 2008 2:37:43 PM

Hi mike i have the HIS X1650XT ICEQ TURBO 256 card which comes out of the box running 600MHz on the processor and 1.46GHz on the memory, Its DDR (Double data rate) so it will show in the Catalist Control Panel as 600 and 730 respectivly.
The rig itself is
Athalon 64 3000+
1 Gig Ram (Generic)
The above mentioned Graphics card
I ran the test on a 15 inch monitor at 1024x768
I have no overclock on the CPU and the Graphics card seems unable to go much higher i looked into it but couldnt get anything worthwhile that was stable enough to bother with, i looked at a lot of reviews and the guys that do it for a living cant get one either so im not that upset that i couldnt, the actual numbvers on mine are 621 processor and 736 on the memory, no reason just where it got left after i played about trying to OC it.
I tested DX7 and 9 and would put it in DX9 if i was you it just looks a little better to me and dosent seem to affect the performance noticably.
The in game settings were left at defaults.
As far as OCing the P4 goes i dont have much experiance of this i looked into ocing my 64 but its all a bit differant because of the way it works, Your best bet would be to drop in on the guys in the CPU overclocking part of the forum and im sure they will give you some good advice, bit obvious i know but ....
Good luck Mactronix :) 
January 6, 2008 2:53:12 AM

thanks mactronic,
For you time and info its much appreicated. You are right about the cpu slowing down the videocard ,what i'll do is take my time in the overclocking the cpu ,and double my system ram to 2 Gb.

but you mentioned about rfactor ,i play online with the VHR-stockcar 1.2 ,your welcome to join us here on the American servers at DDE-gaming .There are COT stockcar and trucks based from the nascar series.

cheers mike
!