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Benefit at running Q6600 multiplier at x9 instead of x8

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June 4, 2008 6:49:49 PM

I recently built a Q6600 machine on an Asus P5K with G.Skill DDR2 800 Ram (4GB - 2GBx2). Using Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro as my heatsink/fan.

I easily got my Q6600 up to 3GHz by upping the fsb to 333, and just adjusting my DRAM back down to 800. Idle it's around 45c in CoreTemp, under max load in Prime95 it sits around 64c. (This is with low speed fan settings)

As that was so easy, I can't help but be curious about getting it up to 3.2.

So I was reading a few other posts on here, and it was suggested to set the fsb at 400, multiplier at x8, and that keeps my RAM running at the stock 800 at 1:1.

Some other posters seemed to "prefer" the x9 mult. What is the benefit to using x9, or to put it another way, was is the down side to using x8?

And if I did go the x8 route, which voltages might need a boost? Currently at 333x9 I don't need to touch any of the voltage settings and it runs in Prime95 for hours and hours with no errors.

Thanks!
June 4, 2008 7:33:16 PM

First off, there is no difference. You just use the Multiplier to adjust speeds and other junk as you see fit.

But running a higher FSB is automatically faster. So x 8 @ 400 FSB is way better than 350 x 9 or whatever.

It's simply due to the fact that your FSB is your data pathway to and from all main system memory.

If that is the case, then that means your 333 FSB can support only 667 Mhz of data. (Double data rate!) Yet you have your RAM running at 800 Mhz. It's so nice of all those memory dividers to cloud your vision!

Logically thinking, it would be pretty hard to pack 400 Mhz of data into a 333 Mhz bus. So that means the higher the FSB, the beter your system will perform. You'll note that you can not run your memory Under the FSB's speed... Hmm, suspicious!

BTW, if your Voltages are on Auto, you are prolly getting more voltage than you need to those component locations. The Auto setting tends to overvolt, it's to stupid to adjust for other factors, so the higher the better!

If you wanna Down Load and run the newest Core Temp release, and tell me your VID, I'd be able to tell you the Loaded VCore value you'll need for 3.6 Its quite easy, after all.

--Lupi
June 4, 2008 7:43:36 PM

Could I safely do 3.6 with an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro air cooler? I used the MX-2 thermal paste that's applied stock to the cooler, and didn't lap or anything fancy.

You made some interesting points... I have a question... So when I'm running at 333x9, and my ratio allows me to keep my ram at 800, am I being "fooled" into thinking my memory is running at full speed or something? Is that why people always recommend the 1:1 ratio?

So if I was going to go for 3.2GHz, running at 1:1.

I could do it at 400x8 with my DRAM set at 800, is it that simple, or am I missing something.

Of course, If I'm understanding correctly, some voltages would need to be tweaked, or could I leave them on auto because they tend to overvolt anyway?
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June 4, 2008 7:52:37 PM

Lupiron said:


If you wanna Down Load and run the newest Core Temp release, and tell me your VID, I'd be able to tell you the Loaded VCore value you'll need for 3.6 Its quite easy, after all.

--Lupi


Sorry to hijack the thread, but I am in a very similar situation and can't do much with FSB 400. I have a P5k-VM with Q6600, and 4x1GB DDR2 800. My VID is 1.25, and I am using (CPU-Z) 1.24 V Idle, 1.20 V Load with 333 FSB. I Get idle T=~37 C and load T=~50 C (Prime95 & CoreTemp).

I can Run FSB 400 x 7 = 2.8 GHz all day and night, but cant get FSB 400 x 8 even at 1.325V Idle 1.285 Load.

How much voltage can safely be put through the processor? Will I ever get 3.2 or 3.6 GHz? Will I fry the chip if I do.

I have tried a VDroop Pencil Mod to lower my boards Idle volatages, but it did not seem to work. Others report the board I have can have Vdroop almost eliminated but I still get .04V of Droop.

Please help!

Cyrus
June 4, 2008 7:54:25 PM

You could prolly leave them on Auto, but really just the North bridge needs to be set around 1.45 to support the higher FSB, and it is that simple. 400 x 8 = 3.2 in sync at 400 Mhz with yer DDR2 ram.

And it really is as simple as it sounds. If your ram is running at 400 Mhz and your bus to and from that ram is running slower, how can you get the faster ram through the slower bus? You simply can't. test it yourself. Its not a HUGE gain, but it's a free decent gain in performance.

Enough that you should Try for 410 FSB after 400 stable, and saving it to your Over clock Profile in the bios. Then Go for 410 FSB in sync and test yer rams read, write and latency. It gets better a lil bit each pass.

Then try 415 FSB for in sync at 430Mhz... any decent brand 800 Mhz ran will get that, just up the voltage by .05 at 415-425, .05 again for a bit more.

You also may want the NB to 1.48 or so for 420+ FSB and up the PLL to 1.60 or so.

Please Down Load and run Core Temp and list the VID of your processor. You'll be glad you got core temp anyways!

--Lupi
June 4, 2008 7:56:27 PM

Wanna list the VID of your processor as well, please??

And I am currently doing just as I said to do, BTW, blending @ 428 FSB with my RAM in sync at 4-4-3-15 @ 2.15 volts.

With a few other mem enhancements. oner 8500 Megs, copy.

--Lupi
June 4, 2008 7:58:43 PM

as lupiron said running a lower multiplier will allow you to have higher FSB at the same speed with higher multiplier.so memory subsystem will have a higher performance increase than lower FSB.

but running a higher FSB will subsequently put higher strain on the mobo.but i doubt the mobo will die with 1600FSB.

running the Q6600@3.6Ghz witl AC Freezer 7 Pro is not always impossible.but in my case it wouldnt even do 3.2Ghz.the core temp just simply too high to even look at.
June 4, 2008 7:59:15 PM

See, take a peek!



I wanna find the edge of FSB stability for the RAM at these timings and levels.

been going up from 810 Mhz to this 856 Mhz, and it smokes!!

--Lupi
June 4, 2008 8:08:00 PM

Thanks for all the detailed responses Lupi. It's greatly appreciated. I do have the lastest CoreTemp, so I'll post my VID tonight.

Never mentioned my ram timings... factory stock it's 5-5-5-15, so I'm not sure if that equates to a much lower ability to be pushed compared to 4-4-4-12 timings.

I'll see if I can't get it running at 3.2 tonight. Wouldn't that be exciting!
June 4, 2008 8:15:08 PM

@ Lupi...

Argh! 1.4 Volts Vcore Load? Is a Kentsfield going to last at those volts?
June 4, 2008 8:22:13 PM

iluvgillgill said:
as lupiron said running a lower multiplier will allow you to have higher FSB at the same speed with higher multiplier.so memory subsystem will have a higher performance increase than lower FSB.

but running a higher FSB will subsequently put higher strain on the mobo.but i doubt the mobo will die with 1600FSB.



I'm pretty sure the P5K is ok up to a 1600fsb. There's a sticker on my motherboard box that says 1600FSB! or something like that. I'll double check when I get home.
June 4, 2008 8:30:15 PM

Sure, these chips can handle a lot more than the common rumors mention. Hell, I accidentally booted into Vista with my VCore at 1.8125 in the Bios, was only 1.78 in windows, though.

And on a B3 q6600 at that, looked fine, just 80c + cores.

So I dont think my 1.39 will harm it much. After all, Intel warranties them to run in spec at .85 - 1.50 volts. The part that Voids the Warranty is the frequency modification, or as we like to call it, over clocking.

So if its safe to run it at 2.4 @ 1.5000 volts and it will last intels 3 year warranty period, I sure am not scared of less volts and more speed! You should check out my two entries in the over clocking competition that was kinda going on. There is some voltage and speed. And Rather good Voltages for the Speed!

Skiltrip, 400 FSB is common, most boards do it. All 333 boards, pretty much get 400 Mhz and more, so 400 FSB boards are good for 450+ Just takes some minor tweaking, or sometimes, oddly, not much tweaking, like the P5n-d 750i.

--Lupi
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 4, 2008 8:50:48 PM

^ Lupi, you really shouldn't put more than 1.45v, it really degrades the life of the CPU. Then again you probably upgrade every year so you won't care :lol: 
June 4, 2008 9:33:15 PM

cyborg28 said:
@ Lupi...

Argh! 1.4 Volts Vcore Load? Is a Kentsfield going to last at those volts?


well typical is 1.5V for 3.6ghz+
June 4, 2008 9:34:04 PM

skiltrip said:
I'm pretty sure the P5K is ok up to a 1600fsb. There's a sticker on my motherboard box that says 1600FSB! or something like that. I'll double check when I get home.


oh i just saying that in theory it will.its like running a engine at 3000rpm compare to 2000rpm.which 1 will last longer.i think you got the answer.
June 4, 2008 9:35:20 PM

Shadow703793 said:
^ Lupi, you really shouldn't put more than 1.45v, it really degrades the life of the CPU. Then again you probably upgrade every year so you won't care :lol: 


shadow i pretty much agree on your comment.but has anyone you encounter have reported their CPU is dead due to a high overclock.in my case there hasnt been anyone.
June 4, 2008 9:41:43 PM

So I am running Prime95 right now, have been for about 1/2 hour, and so far, no problems...

I'm at 400x8
3.2GHz
RAM is at 800
1:1
Set NB voltage to 1.4v
All my other voltages I left at AUTO

In CoreTemp VID is 1.3250v

With all cores at 100%(prime95)...

My CPU temp is riding right around 50c
Core temps are riding around 58-62, highest core usually around 60-61, lowest around 58.

Anything else I should change, or if I'm able to run Prime95 with no errors am I good??
June 4, 2008 9:47:09 PM

your VID is very high for G0 Q6600.but to comfort you i got the same VID Q6600 as you.

and from my experience in my case you wont be go any further then 3.2ghz.whats your load temp for the cores?i would guess its on 70C.i had the same VID as you and same cooler as you.but at the end i switch to a Zalman 9700 and achieved 425X8.and load temp is 70C.
June 4, 2008 9:48:16 PM

you should run prime for 8 hours before declearing its stable and OC further.once i had prime and fail at the 17th hour.so you see?but 24hours prime is for the final final OC that you want to keep.
June 4, 2008 9:53:02 PM

My 100% load temp on the cores is between 58c and 64c.
June 4, 2008 9:58:08 PM

My VID drops down to 1.1625 from time to time. Is this value supposed to move?
June 4, 2008 10:41:16 PM

yeah the value is suppose to move for specific reason.but you dont really need to know about it.that temo you got is fine you should OC it further just dont let the temp get above 70C.
June 4, 2008 11:21:30 PM

After about 40 minutes, I got an error on one of the cores and the test stopped. What should I tweak before I try again.
My setttings again were...
400x8
3.2GHz
RAM is at 800
1:1
Set NB voltage to 1.4v
All my other voltages I left at AUTO

My core temps were peaking at about 64c, but on average stayed closer to 61c

Do I need to tweak one or more of the voltages?? Temperature wise it looked as if I was ok.
June 5, 2008 12:13:59 AM

The value goes that Low thanks to Speed Step, disable it in the Bios, or EIST if it has them both, both!

Looks good!

--lupi
June 5, 2008 12:14:27 AM

When testing with prime, whats the Lowest CPUz Value for the core voltage?

--lupi
June 5, 2008 12:31:48 AM

I didn't look at that last time, but I just ran it for another 15 minutes, and the lowest it got was 1.320.

Before starting Prime it was 1.440.

Do I need to bump up Vcore? Should I keep the NB voltage where it is?
June 5, 2008 1:07:17 AM

You'll have to test to find that out. Okay, what I mean was this, at your current settings, boot into windows and look at CPUz and see what it says, if its berserkly low, like 1.1xxxx you need to make sure speed step is disabled, and EIST if its in there.

if its more like 1.4xx thats fime, just note what it idles at, and then run primes small ffts on all the cores for 30 seconds, and watch to see what the lowest CPUz shows it as, it maf flicker to one, and then another, and back... just remember the lowest value and mention it here.

--Lupi

June 5, 2008 1:10:38 AM

The lowest value is 1.320. What's my next step to make this thing more stable?

And regarding SpeedStep... The only way to bring up the option is to set the cpu multiplier to Auto, if I set it to 8, the option goes away to disable it, but i did set mult to Auto, disabled SpeedStep, and then put the mult back to 8.
June 5, 2008 1:45:11 AM

sorry for hijacking,

my vid is 1.20, how many volts would it take to get it stable at 3.6?
June 5, 2008 1:49:46 AM

Sorry for another hijack....

@Luip, what about 1066mhz memory, 4GB. I currently have my Q6600 @ 3.0ghz with the stock 9x multiplier, so 333FSB. The memory is running at 1067 I think :heink:  Im honestly too scared to put the FSB @ 400, and im not too savy with the RAM timings/multipliers, whatever its called (1:1, 1:1.2, all that) its currently at 5:8. Im using an ASUS V-60 cooler, and the CPU peaks at around 55c after running Age of Conan for multiple hours or Prime95. The voltage is set to 1.3V, ive left it alone and often wondered if it would be safe to lower it eventhough the BIOS says it might not have enough juice, im also unaware of what will happen if I undervolt.
June 5, 2008 1:53:25 AM

Because this thread has been double hi-jacked (lol) I want to make sure we can pick up where we left it...

The lowest cpuz value is 1.320. What's my next step to make this thing more stable?
June 5, 2008 2:47:30 AM

im sure is getting ever more popular.lupi has got a formula to work out the required voltage to achieve certain speed.i cant remember off my head.you will have to wait for him.

but whats the vcore you set in BIOS?and whats the windows idle vcore in CPU-Z and loaded vcore.
June 5, 2008 3:33:34 AM

I have my q6600 overclocked to 3.0, had it overclocked to 3.4 stable but my brother accidently reseted my cmos. I have it 1.2125V in bios, vcore idle is 1.192V. If I remember correctly for loaded vcore, its just a little below the vcore idle.
June 5, 2008 3:35:27 AM

sorry about the capitals.
June 5, 2008 3:37:08 AM

Mobo is P5KC.
June 5, 2008 3:38:51 AM

try this setting.
400x8@1.45v
FSB:RAM 1:1
PLL/VTT +2 notches
NB+1 notch
June 5, 2008 3:40:09 AM

I wont be back for 2 hours, get to it then!

--Lupi
June 5, 2008 3:40:19 AM

Do I really need that much voltage for 3.2? I think you got the op and me mixed up, lol. Plus my vid = 1.20 not 1.320
June 5, 2008 3:40:38 AM

Btw, I'm aim for 3.6, lol.
June 5, 2008 3:40:52 AM

lupisorry about earlier.looking forward to tomorrow then!lol
June 5, 2008 3:41:40 AM

well then put 450x8@1.5v then

and then prime it see if it fails.if it does up the FSB voltage.
June 5, 2008 3:42:24 AM

wouldn't it be easier to run it at 400 x 9?
June 5, 2008 3:42:47 AM

for your VID you dont need 1.5V but since you are so desperate just jump to it then fine tune it later.
June 5, 2008 3:43:51 AM

it would be easier to do 400x9 you just reminded me.the way you are going should have pick 400x9 to eliminate other instability.yeah go for it.
June 5, 2008 3:44:27 AM

not desperate, just wondering. Tried 1.35 in bios, fails after 10 minutes. Maybe a notch or two about what i set in bios.
June 5, 2008 3:48:20 AM

1.35 wouldnt be enough to do 400x9.try 1.45v see if it fails.
June 5, 2008 6:22:15 AM

@ Shadowthor, if its a true 1.2000 VID chip, then it will take about 1.3200 or so for 3.6, thats the benefit of a Low VID there.

And in boards with high VDrop and droop! 1.2000 I think is the lowest factory VID for the old series.

@Spathotan You want to set your front side bus as high as possible, if your ram can take the sync mode. Its pretty straight forward to me, if you data pathway is 333, and your trying to push anything more through it, it would have to wait for a new cycle to xfer that data, and therefor makes it slow.

As far as what would happen if you under volt your Processot. If its right on the verge of stability, minor programs will fail, like pre fetch, super fetch, windows explorer, junk like that, maybe a frozen program, and if the voltage is off enough, you'll get the occasional BSOD.

Just use Prime 95 small fft torture test on all cores and watch with CPUz the current core value, and let it run for a few hours, then lower the VCore a notch and do it again until you Blue screen, then raise it by one and test for 8 hours.

That 1.320 is the LOADED value. Thats the only critical voltage. When I say will do xxx at 1.3200 Thats the loaded value. Your board has Load Line Calibration, turn it on!

Then what you do is manually set it to stock, and manually enter in 1.2000 as the VCore value in the bios. Then boot into windows and look at CPUz and note the lowered value, then also run prime 95 small ffts on all the cores for 30 seconds and note the second value as the VCore is reduced further. The total reduced number needs to be around 1.3200.

Once you add those two up and know how your mobo will apply the initial from Bios to windows VDrop, and then the in windows but fully loaded VCore with VDroop applied now as well. The end number is the final Loaded Value!

--Lupi
June 5, 2008 6:26:36 AM

To the original poster! To make it more stable, its all in the VCore, a 1.3250 VID will need around 1.45 while LOADED with prime 95 small FFTs. Thats what causes most of your problems, read above post, Test for your VDrop and VDroop by manually entering a Bios setting, then loading windows and seeing where its now idling, then load it up with Prime 95 small ffts and see where its finally reduced to. For 3.6 you will need to get it to where its reduced only to around 1.45

Remember, to us.01 isnt $hit, but to your chip, thats a huge amount.

If you have the FSB already stable at 400, just add the VCore, and up the multiplier, and all should be well!

--Lupi
June 5, 2008 1:56:54 PM

1.45 on V core? or NB? My NB setting go in 1.5v increments, I can do 1.4 or 1.55 (Asus P5K).

!