new gaming build, mid-hi range, 2nd build in 13 years

[mweidler]

I built a p100 back in the day. thats when Hard drives can in MB's not GB's lol
Ive been reading here for weeks, you guys are great, an amazing amount of knowledge in one area. But, having done some reading Im still not sure on a few items, ok more than a few lol.

Ive only settled on the case, ordered already.
coolermaster stacker 830. 99 bucks not too bad from Tigerdirect
2185 gateway gaming monitor<from old system> monitor is 1680X1050-great monitor by the way
mouse and keyboard are good.

This will be a gaming machine. COD4, warcraft, crysis. but also a few older games, most notably Rome:total war and medeival2 total war. They are a must but that goes to the OS not components. OC'ing in future is a defenite to at least 3.0 ghz
Budget is 1000-1400. I only want to do this once and will not have a problem going with a better component on your advice if its warranted. So feel free to suggest anything. I will list what I am thinking and why and you guys please give me your thoughts

chip:q6600, from what ive read seems the way to go for the future as well as now. seen for 289 with go stepping

MOBO- Asus formula maximus or ga-p35c-ds3r I had wanted to do SLI but from what ive been reading the gain is minimal and the heat is alot greater. The Maximus is supposed to be extremely easy to overclock the quad to q6850 extreme settings, one click actually. So ive been leaning toward this board. $259 @newegg or tigerD. The other board is $159. Is the $100 difference worth it? I like to do things right once, and then just leave it.
Does whether I want to use raid matter? Im not sure if raid is worth it. Is it? and which version of raid?
Pcie 2.0 do these boards support this? Im thinking future here or maybe not if 8800gt or gtx is 2.0

Cooler- Thermalight ultra 120 with scythe s flex 120mm fan and artic cooler thermal paste---Is this all I need? and will it sound like an airport? I would prefer to use fans rather than liquid cooled, unless the noise will be opressive, then Im all for water or glycol cooled. As long as its fairly easy to do with little to no maintenance. and fairly close in cost.

video card- 8800gt or gtx. I could do hd3850 if I go ati and then do xfire at a later date but from what ive seen nvidia is a better choice

Hard Drive<s>- I was thinking one 500gb barracude. but should I go raid? how much performance gain? and which raid? Ive seen 150gb raptor drives fairly cheap. but Im pretty ignorant on the drives. open to suggestions. I guess SATA or raid right? if you think raid is better please tell me what I will need or suggested hardrives and make etc. one drive for OS and the other for game data? 99% gaming machine rest surfing and minor picture viewing/printing

DVD drive- please suggest a good one that has a good reputation

power supply- I was thinking OCZ or thermaltake , but any top brand will do. 750 enough for my future needs? If I get crazy in a year and do x-fire is it enough. suggestions please. stability is the name of the game.

OS- XP or vista. Keep in mind I MUST be able to run Rome and medeival. ive spent years playing them and dont intend to stop. Which has me leaning towards XP home which I have a copy of. Is XP pro worth the 150 for OEm version? or is their a 64 bit version I should get? Im kinda discounting vista, mainly because of the two older games I want to play but also because of its slower speed, i can update later to vista when things stabilize. but again if you think Im wrong please tell me.

Ram- I want to get 2 2gb sticks<to leave the other two open for when I go to 8GB with 64bit vista in future.
I know only 3.5 will be used but thats ok. I hear crucial is good. I dont want $500 ram. but I do want better than the value line. ddr2 800 pc8500? Do you have suggestions? Im not sure im going to OC the ram. I would rather leave that alone and just OC the cpu, unless I have to do both

If Im missing anything else please tell me. do I need extra fans etc? The case is huge so i can fit just about anything in it, much to my gf's displeasure lol

 

[mweidler]

I almost forgot. 45nm compatability is a must also. should I buy on xmas eve or wait til january? my current computer will last if its better to wait til mid january for the new processors, but Ive always liked to be one step behind so I dont pay 1000 for a chip I can buy in 6 months for 300
thanks in advance people

 

[happy_fanboy]

I jumped on this post because I can tell you are really doing your homework on this. Having worked for a custom computer shop for many years and doing many custom builds I hope to offer you some useful feedback and personal opinions about your build.

Hard Drives/RAID - Lots of people get very opinionated about this, ill share my opinion. Assuming you are only interested in speed im assuming you are only considering RAID mode 0 aka striping 2 drives for perfomance vs one single fast drive.
RAID0 will give you faster sustained read/write speeds for large file transfers. During gaming this means loading maps faster.
RAID0 will double your chance for having a hard drive crash and loss of data. One drive has problems then your entire file system is toast.
RAID0 will NOT alow your computer to boot faster. In fact it will most likely take longer due to the RAID controller BIOS having to load.
RAID0 will have very little to no difference during actual gameplay. While playing a game you should have enough RAM that your file system does not need to make read/writes to the swap file hence the hard drive barely being used.
RAID0 will require a greater level of complexity from both the hardware and software perspective, meaning you will now have to play a driver compatibility game with whichever RAID controller and OS you want to use.
RAID0 will require the same controller to function in any computer, which usually means if you have a computer problem, you cannot take your hard drives out and connect them to another computer to get to your data. You will have to have the exact same motherboard in most cases. One way to avoid this is to buy a RAID card instead of using the on-board controller, however these cards tens to not perform well in terms of speed unless they are very expensinve.
My advice to someone buying now is to look at the 750GB models, they run almost as fast as Raptors for a similar price. 750 GB models and up use perpendicular recording technology to achive their capacity, and this makes them perform much better.

Power supply - Many brands do well as long as you don't go cheap here, my brand of choice is FSP aka Fortron Source. FSP had proven itself as the only brand that we sold which never came back defective. I believe FSP makes the OCZ power supplies but im not sure.

RAM - You should be fine with 2x2 GB kit from a reputable maker, My brands of choice now are Gskill and Patriot. Stick with DDR2-800 and look for a lower latency if possible (4-4-4-12 is better than 5-5-5-15) but you should'nt have to pay a lot more for it.

OS - XP or Vista - This is the main reason im posting. You can run a dual-boot setup easily. Get the best of both worlds. To do this run the setup on your XP disc, and when it shows the disks on your computer you can make 2 partitions. Easiest way is to make 2 partitions of similar size (dont have to be exactly the same) then tell XP to install on the later partition. Then set it up as you would normally. When you want to play with Vista, run the Vista setup CD and tell it to install on the first partition. Vista will automaticaly create an OS selection menu that will come up when you start the PC. Run both!

As far as your MB and CPU choice, Ill leave that up to you. Sounds like youve done the research and when it boils down to it, the only way to really know what a MB is going to be like is to buy and try it. Never buy a MB based on brand reputation, as it means nothing from one model to the next.

I hope I was able to help out, Good Luck!

 

[mweidler]

Thanks fanboy, your explanation of raid really helped me. I will go for a 750gb drive. dual OS on a drive that size sounds like a great idea. Im assuming I should keep the first partition empty and install Xp and all of my games to the second partition. then when Im ready for vista put that OS and all dx10 games on the first partition. I appreciate that idea, I can have the best of both that way. Thx for the advice on the ram latency, I will look later.
do you think it pays to wait til end of january and go with the newer chips? does anyone have pricing on them?
one other question. Im assuming a modular power supply is better, less wires hanging around. but do they come with all the connections I will need? I would rather have extra then have to run out to the store and buy cables one by one.
thx again for your help

 

[happy_fanboy]

Glad I could be of some help, sounds like a great plan to me. In regards to your question about the newer chips, I do not know what the pricing will be but if i had to guess, there will most likely be an entire new lineup coming with the Penryn core with a less expensive entry level quad like the current q6600. I have not seen anything official as to the release dates, the best I can tell you is the rumors ive read point to q1 2008. In the past when a new series comes out its always inflated in price on the release date, q6600 was closer to 4-5 hundred when it was raw. Advice on CPU/MB and their respective upgrade paths is something thats always laced with personal slant.
Just ask yourself this question, are you ready to buy? Then put all the hype about upcoming products out of your mind and put your dollars into the best complete rig you can get right now. You will go insane if you think about what you could have gotten a few months later because computers will always be that way. You might wait to Jan and find that the new chips are pricey or you might get somethin better for the same cash. Or they could delay and you'll be waiting till spring. You say you've got a vendor that will guarantee G0 stepping, kind of a sweet hookup.

Power supplies - The modular design does look appealing, seems much neater and better for airflow. Also they almost always come with way more than enough cables to run anything. However, non-modular design is built so that the wires are soldered on the board withihn the PSU, then they run out to the cables and connectors directly. With the modular setup you have many more breaks and connectors in the wire, and with that comes a greater chance for a connector to seat improperly, break, or recieve unwanted electrical interference. Modular is bad. Take a look at these 2:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009

pc power and cooling has only recently started to offer models under 300 dollars, they used to be only for super high end budget buyers

this is the PSU i own, easily runs 2 x1950 pro GPU's in X-Fire without cracking a sweat
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104015

You can still make all the extra cables dissapear with a few well placed plastic tie straps. I usually hide the extra ones in the top drive bay. Fold the leftover cables back into a bundle with the original bends of the wires as they were shipped, and put one very loose large tie around the middle. It should only be tight enough to loosely hold the bundle together and not pinch. then tie that large tie strap to the inside of the drive bay or other compartment with antoher tie. Avoid tying wires against any cut metal edges or burrs.

I love the case you picked out, Im thinking about getting one myself. Should cool the system fantastic, even without any extra fans. As for the side fan bracket that holds 4 more, you might wanna put that to work when you begin overclocking this machine. Although be careful not to have more intake than exhaust. If you have too much intake fans you will only recirculate hot air in the case. You cannot go wrong with pulling air out, since the open air nature of the front will always let cool air inside.

 

[mweidler]

thanks again. I see your point on the modular psu. I think Im going to go with the pcpower and cooling 750. Its $169, a little expensive but it is a tier1 psu. Im just a little leary of the noise aspect. I might run crossfire at some point and want plenty of stable power. unless you really think its overkill, but for 40 bucks more its not a problem. more worried about noise than the cost actually. Im afraid with all of these fans running it will be like an airport. The ties are a great idea. with that case I should be able to hide everything.
The case seemed like a great buy. Should I order 4 more 120mm fans for the side now? or just two?
I want to be able tokeep an eye onmy temp's. is there a particular sensor I should get? led temp gauge that I can put on the outside, so i can see it while gaming etc. Im planning on using the asus maximus formula MB.<259 at TD>
I appreciate your detailed answers. Ill be able to build a better machine because of them.

 

[mweidler]

update..I ordered the PC&P power supply. I keep reading good things about it. free shipping from new egg. good deal

 

[happy_fanboy]

Hello again, hope your holidays went good. Nice choice on the PSU, quality is top notch on PCP&C units. Very quiet runner too. I though I'd add something to my feedback on your setup after seeing the issue come up on the forums more recently.

I initially didnt want to get into the realm of Motherboards CPU's and Graphics on your rig, mostly because its too hard to recommend these when one hasn't used the product. However, there is something you might want to know about in regard to your MB and Vista.

Just about every MB on the market will indicate in some way that Vista may end up on it. They almost always include a Vista driver disc and say something about Vista Drivers inside. When youre considering Vista, which almost every gamer is, get a look at the picture of the BOX of the board. You need to look for a seal that has the vista logo and reads "Certified for Windows Vista". The board you are looking at does not have this on the box.
What the "Certified for Windows Vista" seal means is the drivers included as well as the drivers on the manufacturers site have been tested by microsoft for compatibility and stability. I have had experiences with motherboards that included a Vista Disc but did not have the seal that were very bad. You have really no way of knowing if the drivers will even install, let alone work with any degree of stability. This same thing applies to anything that needs drivers to work in your machine but the Motherboard is by far the most important since there are so many devices on it. Printers are very sneaky about this too, make sure to look for the seal if youre buying a printer.

The biggest pain of the game is that very few X38 boards have the seal. I did find one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128080

When it comes to Motherboards, ive developed the philosophy that Brand name=nothing. All manufacturers have made lemons and all have made bullett-proof performers. Brand loyalty has gotten me into trouble with a crapy board one too many times in the past. Always review boards by the exact model you want to buy, and make sure you have a return policy . Theres my $.02for the day, good luck and let me know what happens!

 

[oncdoc]

mweidler so in the end what did you order than ? Please list links please to various vendors. I am sure there are others like me who will want to spec it out.

thanks in advance

 

[mweidler]

Thanks for the info on the MB, Damn now Im in a quandry. I liked the one step OC'ing on the formula maximus. Has anyone run vista on it? Im starting with XP and then maybe later go with vista. probably in a dual install kind of thing so If its a pain the butt I can take my time with it and still play on XP. SO for now MB and chip are not ordered, but the rest is.

Video card: great deal, $339 W/crysis
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130312

Ram Gskill 4gb, went with pc6400, 444-12 timings. dont see the need for any faster. $114 after rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231148

HDD-fastest seeek time on a 500gb drive, 32MB cache, and its perpindicular. $119
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288

fans:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185006
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185004
2 1600RM fans and 4 800RPM fans. went for a mix of quiet and power. The case is a coolermaster stacker so the flow should be enough. if not Ill get more of the bigger fans

Paid 99 for the case in Dec
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119122

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100009&Tpk=ARCTIC%2bCeramique thermal paste

for the cpu cooler Im going with a thermalright ultra 90- smaller than ultra 120 and just about as good, but not in stock so i cant finish my build
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835109127

PSU- spend the money on this, most important thing in your build
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009

DVD- got the samsung
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151154

cpu-dont get OEM version, warranty only good for 90 days
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151154

But I still have a problem with motherboard- anyone have any othe ropinions.
I want 45NM support as well as pci 2.0. all for the future

 

[mweidler]

Holidays were great, happy. Hopefully yours were too. Since I cant get the Ultima 90 right now I have time to research motherboards.
anyone else have an opinion on this?

 

[DAVIDMCDIARMID]

I would suggest going with a high end P35 motherboard and forgetting about 45nm. All current X38 motherboards with 45nm support are very expensive and will be rendered almost entirely obsolete when X48 comes out in a few months. If you want to upgrade to 45nm in two years, then the price of a P35 now and a great X48 or higher mobo then combined will probably be similar to the cost of just the X38 now. You can see that the former option is much better.

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck with your build.

 

[happy_fanboy]

I'd give this guy a try,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128080

Its Vista certified, 45nm support, and less expensive than most X38.
Then you can be one of the first to review it for all of us
I'll help you any way I can.

 

[happy_fanboy]

BTW i very strongly recommend Fedex for anything newegg sells.

 

[mweidler]

Im on hold for two weeks. I need to use a certain CC for my air miles, gf wants to go away, go figure.
I have everything but the cpu, MB and cooler. I cant find the thermalright ultima 90 in stock anywhere so that is delaying me as well. I want to build this once even though I wont overclock for a month or so. I want a good stable burn in period.

 

[ImajorI]

I don't know as much as most of these guys, but built the system below 2 weeks ago as my first build for around the top end of your budget in US dollars and it works great.

 

[mweidler]

thats real close to my specs. Did you overclock the quad yet? Im curious what your heat temp's are and how easy it was to overclock with that board.
How do you like vista 64?

 

[lunyone]

I'd go with one of these mobo's for now and if in a year or 2 you can get the newest chipset out there.

All have had decent reviews and OC pretty well and for around $130 each you can't go wrong here.
Gigabyte DS3R
Abit IP 35
Asus P5k

I think in your sitation the q6600 would be a good buy at $280 or so. This probably give you longer time with your setup and also allow you to multitask better. If you strickly want gaming than the e6750 at 2.66ghz is a nice start. You can than OC it' to 3.2-3.6 on your HSF that your getting and save the $100 difference over the q6600. Later if you feel that you need a quad than you can drop it in and not worry about it, since you'll already have a good aftermarket HSF.

Ooops, just noticed that you wanted PCI-e 2.0 mobo, well than I'd suggest this one, since it's in your price range and has alot of good reviews.
ASUS P5E LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131219

 

[ImajorI]

I haven't overclocked yet but will. My current temps are very low with a V-1 cooler and stock Silverstone case fans. The Vista 64 runs like a champ but boot up with 2 gigs first then second 2 gigs was read fine.

I'm a rookie but took my time, read the MB manual and everything was relatively easy. Runs all the new games at high settings. I wanted a good case, PSU and Quad Core that would last as the backbone of future upgrades. It was fun and without Tom's people I never would or could have done it.

 

[rodney_ws]

I read through the posts and I spotted something I'm not entirely sure is true (at least in many cases) ... someone said that RAID 0 would ultimately cause the boot process to take longer because of some idle time associated with a RAID controller initializing. While I believe this to be true when you're talking about a separate RAID controller (Adaptec comes to mind) I don't believe this applies to the onboard controllers most motherboards have now... I just haven't seen that same type of delay. I believe in the the case of the OP's proposed system, a RAID 0 array would decrease the time it takes to boot. Just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[happy_fanboy]

All onboard RAID controllers i've ever used still act in much the same way a card would, where you have to wait for the RAID BIOS to load as well as wait for the array to initialize. I cannot however vouch for any of the newer ICH9 motherboards as ive not used them.

 

[happy_fanboy]

Hey IMajorI would you mind reposting your specs? they arent showing up on your post anymore. thanks