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Can too litle Amps hurt the graphic card?

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January 2, 2008 9:48:31 PM

Hello people.

I just have a question regarding my graphic card:

XFX GeForce 8800GTS 600M 640MB XT GDDR3 PCI-Express, 2xDVI/HDTV/HDCP, 112-SP

The company cheated me with the PSU, the specs weren't as they said, so the +12V rail only had 18A normally than the 25A and 35A max as stated.

So I'm suspecting that this is the culprit when it comes to the crashes while playing, that is too little juice to the card.

But now I'm concerned that this could have destroyed or hurt the graphic card, or does this not effect it?
January 2, 2008 9:59:37 PM

If it's only one rail running 18A, it's the culprit.
As for damage, I would be uneasy that it happens all the time, but don't know if it's causing actual damage.
January 2, 2008 9:59:41 PM

I don't see how it could
Related resources
January 2, 2008 10:09:31 PM

krillz said:
Hello people.

I just have a question regarding my graphic card:

XFX GeForce 8800GTS 600M 640MB XT GDDR3 PCI-Express, 2xDVI/HDTV/HDCP, 112-SP

The company cheated me with the PSU, the specs weren't as they said, so the +12V rail only had 18A normally than the 25A and 35A max as stated.

So I'm suspecting that this is the culprit when it comes to the crashes while playing, that is too little juice to the card.

But now I'm concerned that this could have destroyed or hurt the graphic card, or does this not effect it?


Too little information. PSU make,all rail info, etc.. Hard to help without knowing these things.

As to whether it will damage your GPU, an analogy would be buying a car that requires 98 RON fuel, then cheaping out and filling it with 91 RON. It'll still drive, but...
January 2, 2008 10:10:32 PM

Good as I got scared there for a moment, the XFX card requires 26A on the +12V rail. So I'm hoping that swaping the PSU will resolve my problems.
January 2, 2008 10:20:10 PM

croc:

The graphic card requirements is: minimum 400W and 26A on the PCI-E 8pin power cord.

The PSU I have is: Apevia 500W, Transparent, Aluminium, Double UVBLUE-FAN, 2xSATA, ATX, 20/24pi.

On their site they stated that the +12V rail was delivering 25A normaly and 35A the most, but when reading on the PSU it self I discovered it said 18A normaly which is something completely different from what they stated on the site. Also I only have one 8 pin connector for the pci-e card.

Rail info:

DC O/P Load|Max|Peak
+3.3V|28A| ...
+5 V| 30A|...
+12 V1|16A|18A
+12 V2|16A|20A
-5V|0.3A|...
-12V|0.8A|
+5VSB|2.0A|2.5A

+3.3V & +5V combines Load: 200W
+3.3V, +5V & 12V combines Load: 500W

Total peak output power: 520W
January 2, 2008 10:21:20 PM

It will definately help. If you have only one rail at 18A you have to remember that the rest of you system is using some of those amps, which lowers your power to the video card. If it's was two rails at 18A then you shouldn't have a problem. By a new PSU with at least two rails with the 18A, I had to for my new X1950 gt, which wants 30A for the total PSU.
January 2, 2008 10:36:53 PM

krillz said:
Good as I got scared there for a moment, the XFX card requires 26A on the +12V rail. So I'm hoping that swaping the PSU will resolve my problems.


You still have not provided enough information, but buy a new PSU if it will make you feel better. Antec Neo HE 550 or Silverstone 650, or PCP&C 650... Any of them should do the job nicely.

A good website for PSU reviews is http://www.jonnyguru.com . Read the reviews and decide accordingly. There is also a PSU ranking chart at http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10... . Tier 1 or 2, 3 if you are cheap... 4 or 5 if you like to worry.

Edit:.. You posted better info as I was researching. Still, look at the 2nd link and decide if your PSU MFG. is appropriate. From the numbers just listed, your PSU should be up to the task, but if its a Rosewill.... Well, not all specs are believable.

The XFX specs are probably quoted for an average system in total, not for the card alone, BTW.
January 2, 2008 10:40:32 PM

Krillz,

I am vaguely familiar with Apevia... reputable companies like Antec or Seasonic tend to give "conservative" power ratings to their PSU's, meaning you can throw a substantial load on one and it will still work just fine. nV and ATi tend to exaggerate the required amount, but nonetheless you need to make sure that your PSU can supply somewhat near the amperage suggested for the card, especially if the PSU wasn't manufactured by a top-flight manufacturer.
January 2, 2008 11:04:42 PM

krillz said:
croc:

The graphic card requirements is: minimum 400W and 26A on the PCI-E 8pin power cord.

The PSU I have is: Apevia 500W, Transparent, Aluminium, Double UVBLUE-FAN, 2xSATA, ATX, 20/24pi.

On their site they stated that the +12V rail was delivering 25A normaly and 35A the most, but when reading on the PSU it self I discovered it said 18A normaly which is something completely different from what they stated on the site. Also I only have one 8 pin connector for the pci-e card.

Rail info:

DC O/P Load|Max|Peak
+3.3V|28A| ...
+5 V| 30A|...
+12 V1|16A|18A
+12 V2|16A|20A
-5V|0.3A|...
-12V|0.8A|
+5VSB|2.0A|2.5A

+3.3V & +5V combines Load: 200W
+3.3V, +5V & 12V combines Load: 500W

Total peak output power: 520W


Get a new PSU. Yours is a bit sus. Try dickering with your supplier, but only for one of the better brands.
January 2, 2008 11:10:58 PM

KRILLZ i HAVE SAME VIDEO CARD,BUT I HAVE OZC 700 PSU WITH 4 12VOLT 18 AMPS ON EACH RAIL.SOUND LIKE YOUR USEING 1 RAIL @ 16 AMPS TO THAT VIDEO CARD THAT WANT WORK.

SENSE YOU NEED 26 AMPS FOR THE CARD YOU CAN US A Y CABLE TO US BOTH THE 16 AMP RAILS THAT WILL GIVE YOU 32 AMP'S TO THE VIDEO.

I US 2 - 12 VOLT 18 AMP RAILS TO MY VIDEO CARD SENSE IT HAS 4 12 VOLT 18 AMPS.USEING Y CABLE IT WORKS
THE OTHER 2 12 VOLT 18 AMPS FOR THE REST OF THE PARTS.

THE 400 PS WITH 2 16 AMP RAIL WILL WORK USEING Y CABLE BUT THAT DOESN'T LEAVE MUCH FOR THE REST OF YOUR PARTS.RECOMMED PS WITH 4 RAILS WITH 18 AMPS THERE ARE PLENTY OF THEM OUT THERE OZC IS A GOOD ONE. HAVE HAD NO PROBLEM WITH IT.HOPE THIS HELPS YOU :bounce: 
January 2, 2008 11:32:40 PM

Thanks for the help guys, I just talked to a dude with a XFX 8800 GTX card and he said that he also had too lite juice going to the system having it crashing and that getting a 600 W + did the job for him.

So I'm gonna switch this in for a stronger one, hopefully my problem with the crashes during gaming will vanish as I ruled out any hardware failure and incompatibility.

Edit: One last question though:

If I buy a PSU that has the 12v rail specified like 12v1 12v2 and 12v3 at 19A each, does this mean that I have to run 2 x 12v in a Y cable configuration as major53 wrote, or just use the PCI-E connector. Been reading about this rails and I'm very confused now.

I'm thinking of getting the: http://www.antec.com/ec/productDetails.php?ProdID=05660 antec NeoPower 650 - EC.



January 17, 2008 11:53:28 PM

KRILLZ THAT PS WILL WORK

YOU STILL HAVE TO US Y CABLE 3 12V 19 AMP WILL POWER IT JUST FINE.

JUST REMEMBER TWO SEPERATE MOLLEX CABLE GOING TO Y CABLE WILL GIVE YOU PLENTY OF POWER TO GET THE GTX TO WORK JUST FINE.

2 12 V 19 AMPS GOING TO Y CABLE = 38 AMPS IT WILL WORK JUST FINE.

HOPE THIS HELPS :bounce: 

i STILL LIKE THE OCZ 700 BECAUSE IT HAS 4 12V 18 AMPS EACH.FUTURE UPGRADES

2 12V 19 AMP USE TOGETHER = 38 AMPS DON'T US PCI-E UNLESS IT HAS AT LEAST 1 12V 26 AMP RAIL OR 30 AMP OR 40 mp on that single rail.
January 18, 2008 12:48:20 AM

First off.. major53.. there are so many wrong statements youve made my head hurts..

Secondly to Krillz, the power supply you have now *should* have enough power for the card, though apevia certainly isnt a brand I would recommend. Most likely that is the problem, though not because it doesnt have enough power. Get a Corsair HX520 or something similar and you should be fine
January 18, 2008 12:49:47 AM

That Antec power supply should be fine. You won't have to bridge the 12V rails; it has dedicated PCIe connectors for a PCIe graphics card. You'll just be able to use that power connector for the graphics card.
January 18, 2008 12:55:18 AM

Major53--first, lose the caps.
Second, I'm no expert, but I know that "bridging" two 19A rails won't make a single 38A rail. If that's the way things worked, then why would any power supply manufacturer ever make a power supply that didn't just have a single, high-amp rail? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but the rails aren't necessarily the lines coming out of the power supply--it's more along the lines of the method the psu converts the current. Some companies use multiple, low-amp rails; others use single, high-amp rails. It's all about efficiency and the ATX standard, I believe.
a c 108 U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 1:17:48 AM

Quote:
The graphic card requirements is: minimum 400W and 26A on the PCI-E 8pin power cord.

Thats for the entire system. The video card in question takes under 9 amps on its own(under 10 for a factory OC'd one)....

Quote:
If that's the way things worked, then why would any power supply manufacturer ever make a power supply that didn't just have a single, high-amp rail?

Because the ATX specs say to.....for real 99% of multi railed psu's have ONE large rail with virtual rails(Each with over current portection).

The other reason is that if you try to pull 50 amps through a 16-18 gauge wire it can burn the wire(So its a safety concern too)....

In general you should have more then enough power...but Apevia PSU's kind of suck but even at that, the full system should not be taking enough power to show its suckyness


That PSU is exactly the 25 amps they say

DC O/P Load|Max|Peak
+3.3V|28A| ...
+5 V| 30A|...
+12 V1|16A|18A
+12 V2|16A|20A
-5V|0.3A|...
-12V|0.8A|
+5VSB|2.0A|2.5A

+3.3V & +5V combines Load: 200W
+3.3V, +5V & 12V combines Load: 500W

So 500 - 200 = 300watts of 12 volt(combined)
300 / 12 = 25amps

As with normal PSU's there is a maximum combined 12 volt amps(One big rail)and 2 virtual rails. each has a current regulator to stop you from burning the wires(and keep it in spec).....so as long as the load on +12v1 and +12v2 does not exceed 25 amps your good....if any rail takes over its limit(18 for the first "rail" or 20 for the second one....the psu will shut off....) So you do have your 25amps(You can get up to 35 amps as long as the combined 3.3 and 5 does not exceed 80 watts, but don't bet on getting more then 30....just because that psu is ...well....kind of crappy)....
This is based only on the specs you posted....if that PSU can hold that kind of power you are fine, but i have seen some bad ones like this before...this is only based on the specs provided


I doubt you crashes are related to the psu in this case, but its still not a great psu to have......

If you have access to a volt meter you can test the power and see whats actually happening at load....
January 18, 2008 1:31:34 AM

Itheral: I think he means using ONE Rail on one of the PCI-EXPRESS connector
and using the SECOND RAIL on the other pci-express connector.

January 18, 2008 1:49:13 AM

is everybody on here a bunch of idiots, you can't compare enough power for pc to fuel for a car..that is apples and oranges
January 18, 2008 1:56:58 AM

I'm currently using this power supply to power what is in my sig below. It runs without a hitch. Currently, Newegg is offering $30 off instantly, so instead of $100 it is 70 with free shipping, doesn't get much better than that. It has 34 amps on the 12V rail.
a c 108 U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 2:05:57 AM

soloman02 said:
I'm currently using this power supply to power what is in my sig below. It runs without a hitch. Currently, Newegg is offering $30 off instantly, so instead of $100 it is 70 with free shipping, doesn't get much better than that. It has 34 amps on the 12V rail.

Solid and silent
80+ Saves a good deal of power too....

Antec's Earthwatts psu are also built by Seasonic...
January 18, 2008 2:30:13 AM

If anything, shouldn't the PSU be damaged if it's being overloaded?

Anyways I agree with nukemaster, getting a better PSU will be better for your system on the long run.
January 18, 2008 2:49:24 AM

The 80+ rating wont save you a dime in the US for a residentual customer.
January 18, 2008 3:02:40 AM

crazywheels said:
is everybody on here a bunch of idiots, you can't compare enough power for pc to fuel for a car..that is apples and oranges


No, it is watts vs. watts. Just because one derives its watt rating from electricity, and the other derives its watt rating from fuel, in the end its is watts vs. watts. So a true apples / apples comparison.

Same issue when measuring various power stations... So much 'fuel' in delivers so many watts output.

Idiot...
January 18, 2008 3:19:13 AM

croc said:

As to whether it will damage your GPU, an analogy would be buying a car that requires 98 RON fuel, then cheaping out and filling it with 91 RON. It'll still drive, but...


terrible analogy.
using crappy fuel could clog/damage your car, but the only thing that could damage your vid card is if the power supply blows up (which can happen with any power supply, but has a higher probability of doing so with an overloaded supply) and even if it blows up, it will not necessarily damage your hardware, it's just a possibility.

When you put a load on the 12V rail, your voltage will become lower (as does any loaded transformer). if a device is rated for 12V and you put 11V (voltage dips because the load is too high for the power supply) on the device, you cannot damage the device; you can only damage the device by overvolting it. However, the device might now work the way you want. i.e. system crashes.
a c 108 U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 3:59:55 AM

bydesign said:
The 80+ rating wont save you a dime in the US for a residentual customer.

Are you saying you do not pay if you use more power? I am talking efficiency here not PFC

Think of it this way.

2 PCs

PC 1 and 2 are the same but the psu is different

PC 1

400 watts DC. The PSU is 60 % efficient.

so 400 + 40% = 560 watts from the wall

PC 2

400 watts DC. The psu is 82 % efficient
400 + 18% = 472 watts

Thats 88 watts different EVER hour the PC is on....

A little over 2 kilowatt hours saved if the pc is on all day....

Also 80+ means less heat too....
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 4:05:09 AM

Not to nitpick, but 3.3 x 18 = 60 watts + 5 x 30 = 150 watts, so actually its 210 watts for the 3.3 and the 5 volt. If theyre off that much already, Im betting the psu is as suspect as their numbers. That leaves a total of 290 for the 12 volt rails. If as was stated earlier that a GTS pulls max 10 amps, thats 120 watts right there, leaving 170 for the rest of the 12v system. And remember this, you never ever want to max out your power , ever. Undervolting your hardware will burn it up, as well as the psu of course
a c 108 U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 4:15:32 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Not to nitpick, but 3.3 x 18 = 60 watts + 5 x 30 = 150 watts, so actually its 210 watts for the 3.3 and the 5 volt. If theyre off that much already, Im betting the psu is as suspect as their numbers. That leaves a total of 290 for the 12 volt rails. If as was stated earlier that a GTS pulls max 10 amps, thats 120 watts right there, leaving 170 for the rest of the 12v system. And remember this, you never ever want to max out your power , ever. Undervolting your hardware will burn it up, as well as the psu of course

They are combined rails(most likely center tapped from the same transformer) similar to the way you can get more 12 volts if you use less 3.3 and 5[they are clearly linked too]......they are all linked...this is a normal case on most psu's(i still have some doubt about its rating...but if i can keep my system under 350[with the exception to extreme everything load]i think the OP "should" still be ok...at least for now...a year from now....not sure)

You want to read something fun check out the sticker on the Corsair HX620
50 amps constant out of a 620 watt psu leaving 20 watts for the 3.3, 5 and the negative stuff
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 4:29:54 AM

LOL 20 watts, not thatd be a miracle! I know my 420 watt psu can kick 29 amps to the 12s, and 25 seems weak for a 500 watter, to me. Im using an opty 185, a GTS 320 with everything else normal, or lite. So I know Im skimpin, but I KNOW Im skimpin. Hey, those 20 watts come with static just in case? heheh
a c 108 U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 4:56:48 AM

yes, but most psu are labled in an odd way(more so now....since MAX numbers look more impressive)....they can with ease call it a 35 amp psu. Because it can(on paper at least do it...).

Check out corsairs(Its made by Seasonic as well)

170 + 600(not going to include standby or -12)
so is it a 770 watt psu? No
As long as nothing exceeds the listed maximums and the total output does not go over 620 watts. your good to go.

What Apevia fails to mention is a max for its 12's they just say max for the 3.3 and 5 combined so i had to subtract it from the total....if corsair had not listed it, the figures would look different.

620(total) - 170(for the 3.3 and 5) = 450 / 12 = 37.5 amps.... Does not sound impressive, but thats all you would get if the 3.3 and 5 volt rails where maxed....

It is always important to keep in mind the fact that most psu's rails are all combined and can give there max wattage in a variety of ways....

Damn, i need to write some guides....but i am too lazy...
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 5:21:51 AM

LOL, Im glad you did that. I know that they share the total, and usually theyre giving max values for any rail, which added exceeds the total wattage, but its good for others to read, and yes you should write one, maybe get it pinned?
a c 108 U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 5:31:11 AM

did I mention.....
I AM LAZY!!! :) 
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 7:41:59 AM

krillz:
Two questions:
You said your XFX8800GTS (640) has an 8 pin connector for PCI-e power. Are you sure it's not a 6 pin connector?
Second, when you said the PC "crashes", did you mean that it occasionally freezes or that it will randomly reboot? If the latter, it's probably power related - especially if it happens under heavy system load.

An OC'd G80 8800GTS/640 MB needs about 120 watts of power.

For PSU ratings, ignore any rating that says "peak power". It's meaningless. If you are operating that close to the upper edge of PSU capacity, you need a heavier PSU.

I went over to the Apevia website and looked at the pictures and specications. The pictures seem to show pretty light heatsinks. Specs say full rated output at 25 c. Under load, it will heat up. Based on data from PSU manufacturers who do publish such data (most don't), you need to derate a PSU from 1 to 2% per degree C. over PSU rated operating temp. So if internal temp goes up just 10 deg. C., this 500 watt PSU turns into a 400 to 450 watt PSU. This is far different from a 430 watt PSU rated at full output at 50 deg. C. My impression of Apevia is that you would have received a better PSU if they dispensed with the acrylic and LED fans and put that money into the electronics.

croc:
Your automotive analogy really isn't accurate. An inadequate power condition (an overloaded PSU) is supposed to shut that PSU down. A more accurate automotive analogy would be "running on empty". You may still have some gas in the bottom of the tank, but it's not enough to reliably feed the fuel system.

JAYDEEJOHN said:
LOL 20 watts, not thatd be a miracle! I know my 420 watt psu can kick 29 amps to the 12s, and 25 seems weak for a 500 watter, to me.

New PC's really load the 12 volt outputs. So new PSU's are designed for that. Older PSU's were designed for older PC's that needed more 5 volt power. So 25 amps out of an older design is not unreasonable. Modern PC's do not need all that 5 volt capacity. But it's included because it might be a replacement PSU for an older computer.

nukemaster:
"They are combined rails(most likely center tapped from the same transformer) similar to the way you can get more 12 volts if you use less 3.3 and 5[they are clearly linked too]......"

That's sort of a simplification. The limitation is actually determined by the primary power circuits (how much power the switching transistors can provide and the size of the main power transformer) and the thermal characteristics (heatsinks, ventilation, and layout). "More power" costs. That combined with good design and conservative ratings is responsible for the difference a $20 no-name PSU from China and a $100 to $150 1st or 2nd tier PSU.

My Antec 650 watt TP3 box says "650 watt continuous output at 50 deg. C." It also say that the max 12 volt out is 624 watts, leaving 26 watts for everything else. <Snicker>

"Quick and dirty" under load PSU voltage checks (carefully, carefully) of the main outputs with DMM black lead grounded and red lead inserted into the back of the various PSU connector pins plugged into the motherboard:
yellow, yellow/black, and yellow/blue wires: +12 v
red: +5 volt
orange: +3.3 volts
All readings should be +- 5%.

While we are talking about PSU's, if you have a suspected bad PSU, also check the grey wire on pin 8. It provides a control signal called "PwrOK" that the CPU needs to start booting. With the PC off, it should be at 0 volts. It should go to around 5 volts (anything over 3.6 volts will be OK) within .5 seconds after pressing the power switch. You can have all the power outputs present. But if you don't have this, your PSU is broke and your PC won't boot.

I also have been thinking about doing a basic PSU guide. I am getting tired of writing the same things over and over in PSU threads. Thats how my "Troubleshooting a Dead System" guide evolved.
January 18, 2008 8:55:20 AM

Last year, when I got an MSI MBOX K9N6SGM-V, and I put in an Antec Truepower 500 to replace the cheap 400 watt PSU. The Newegg photo showed only the model number (SL-400TF), but it turned out to be an Apex.

Well, I put that Apex psu in an old 2.8 Northwood, i865PERL, with an AIW Radeon 9800 Pro box, and within a few months, it died. It took the motherboard with it, so I was out an old PC mainly set up to record video tapes to the hard drive so we could convert them to DVD.

That's what using a cheap psu can do. I should have just tossed it instead, and gotten at least a tier 3 psu for the legacy pc. While it was working, it didn't crash the PC. Just when it died, the motherboard did too, and I'm not sure of the processor or the graphics card because I haven't gotten an AGP board to test them. Instead, I got a TV Wonder card for my MSI Athlon X2 pc.

So, always get at least a tier 3 psu, but better yet, a tier 2. We now have two Antec Neo 550's in our two main PC's with ASUS 690G boards, and the Antec Truepower 500 in the MSI. Since Coolermaster dropped to tier 5, I decided to retire the Coolermaster Realpower 450 that we'd been using in our son's PC. That might have been the last tier 3 psu they ever made. It was the only good one on a list at the forums a couple of years ago when I bought it after reading a review in Maximum PC.
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 10:51:36 AM

That can be a problem when companies change oem suppliers - especially fo rthe worse. They are able to trade on their previous reputation. Or a particular brand may use two oem's across its product range.

The computer at my house in Texas is a simple basic box for internet, email, some scanning - just a basic home computer. Had a 600 MHz PII Celeron before. My sister-in-law put the whole McAfee Security Suite on it. The thing took 7 minutes to boot. Replaced it about 5 or 6 years ago with a PC using a 2.6 GHz P4 Celeron with 512 MB RAM in an integrated Asus motherboard. A 250 watt PSU would have been good enough. I planned to use a 350 watt PSU. No Fry's near Dallas at the time, Compusa didn't have anything that I liked. The smallest name brand PSU that Best Buy had in stock was a 450 watt Antec. It's so lightly loaded that the exhaust air isn't more than 5 deg. F above ambient.

I put the 650 watt Antec in Box #1 simply because I found it on sale. This year, I wanted to pick up a Q6600 G0. Got one at Fry's bundled with an inexpensive ECS motherboard for $280, Antec 550 TP3 half priced at about $45 (SALE!!), and 2 GB of OCZ DDR2-800 rebated to $50. So, for about $100 and upgrade trickle-down, I will have another reasonably well performing system.

The Antec 550 and 650 watt TP3's are advertised as each having three 12 volt rails. I don't think that's true. On both of mine, I read straight short circuits with an ohmmeter between any two 12 volt lines on any two connectors.

And speaking of multiple computers, two questions from J. S. Casteel's Geek Test:
(with apologies to Jeff Foxworthy)
1. If you have more computers in the house than people, you might be a geek.
2. If you have a home network and you live alone, ...
January 18, 2008 4:26:50 PM

chedrz said:
Major53--first, lose the caps.
Second, I'm no expert, but I know that "bridging" two 19A rails won't make a single 38A rail. If that's the way things worked, then why would any power supply manufacturer ever make a power supply that didn't just have a single, high-amp rail? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but the rails aren't necessarily the lines coming out of the power supply--it's more along the lines of the method the psu converts the current. Some companies use multiple, low-amp rails; others use single, high-amp rails. It's all about efficiency and the ATX standard, I believe.





When you combind the 2 rails it allows it to draw apms off more than one rail. Why would a video card manufacturer ship their cards with the adaptor????? 1 12v. rail rated at 18 amps is NOT enough power when the card is working under heavy load. Manufacturers make 2, 4, single rail PSU's PC Power & Cooling makes single rail high amperage PSU's so the PCI-e connector on the PSU will work. On multi rail PSU's you have to combined the rails with the VIDEO CARD MANUFATURER SUPPLIED ADAPTOR. The manufacturer does not ship this cable with the video card for sh@*s and giggles. I suggest a single rail high amperage PSU. Read PCPC definition on single and multi rails. A multi rail is 1 rail split apart. Do a little research before telling someone BAD information or what your assumptions are.Sorry cousin (it) didn't mean to leave you out, your head probably hurts from strocking (it) to much.first off

http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/
January 18, 2008 4:57:31 PM

The OP brought up a great question... and I haven't seen it definitively answered...

Would having too weak of a PSU for your rig potentially damage the components? I don't think the OP was really asking about the stability issues... we all know PSUs can cause that... but can a PSU that is being asked to do too much actually damage components?
a c 108 U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 5:00:07 PM

Quote:
My Antec 650 watt TP3 box says "650 watt continuous output at 50 deg. C." It also say that the max 12 volt out is 624 watts, leaving 26 watts for everything else.

Its made by Seasonic, Thats why :) 

Quote:

That's sort of a simplification. The limitation is actually determined by the primary power circuits (how much power the switching transistors can provide and the size of the main power transformer) and the thermal characteristics (heatsinks, ventilation, and layout). "More power" costs. That combined with good design and conservative ratings is responsible for the difference a $20 no-name PSU from China and a $100 to $150 1st or 2nd tier PSU.

Yeah, Simplification works best i find...It keeps confusion to a minimum...

Go write your guide so i can just link to it....
a c 108 U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 5:02:04 PM

rodney_ws said:
The OP brought up a great question... and I haven't seen it definitively answered...

Would having too weak of a PSU for your rig potentially damage the components? I don't think the OP was really asking about the stability issues... we all know PSUs can cause that... but can a PSU that is being asked to do too much actually damage components?

Some cheap PSU;s will not turn off if asked to do too much, Instead they will either under or overvolt components. This can and will damage parts(some parts are more sensitive then others....a fan can take almost anything :)  a video card given a voltage that is too high may damage its own voltage regulation system killing the video card....)....Thats why good psus have over and under protection for voltage(to protect your system) and current(to protect them selves)...
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