Sapphire release the Radeon HD3850 for AGP! - page 2

138 answers Last reply
  1. ethel said:
    Blimey, won't AGP ever die??

    Exactly. btw, wouldn't the AGP x8 bandwidth be a limitation of some kind?
  2. A 8800GTX doesn't flood a PCIe 16x slot, and is BARELY hindered by a PCIe 8x slot (floods it just slightly). The HD 3850 doesn't even come close to the same amount of bandwidth, and should not in any way be bottlenecked by the AGP 8x interface. It will, however, definitely flood a 4x AGP.
  3. nvalhalla said:
    I've been hearing that for a few years...


    AGP's last hurrah can be seen by the fact that the only new AGP motherboards available are Via chipsets. When a good AGP board dies, there's not much to replace it with.

    I made the mistake of moving a P4 2.8 Intel i865 PERL board, 2 gigs (4 x 512) DDR 400 and a Radeon 9800 Pro into a used case with a PSU taken out of an MSI Nvidia AM2 barebones, where I'd replaced it with a good Antec Truepower 500.

    That cheap PSU died and took the AGP motherboard with it. Haven't tested the 2.8 Northwood, the RAM or the AIW 9800 Pro because I don't like Via boards, the last one I had wouldn't run Morrowind and it was flaky when starting up.

    Anyone who considers an AGP card because they can't afford to upgrade all at once should save up for a new motherboard and CPU instead. After all, their good board might fail and there are no real choices in replacing it outside of finding a good used board on Ebay.
  4. Sorry, my PSU is a Dell so I doubt it will fail. It already proved it doesn't care about power variations in a poor electrical network. So thanks a lot for the advice. Getting a power supply with power factor correction always pays off, no matter what the system is.
  5. j_me said:
    Sorry, my PSU is a Dell so I doubt it will fail. It already proved it doesn't care about power variations in a poor electrical network. So thanks a lot for the advice. Getting a power supply with power factor correction always pays off, no matter what the system is.


    Does your PSU have the 6+2 or 8 pin connector for 8 pin power that the AGP 3850 needs? A salesperson at Fry's tried to sell me a one molex to 8 pin Xeon motherboard adapter when I asked for a 6+2 adapter for 8 pin PCIe power. Don't fall for that. MSI didn't even include one with the 3870x2 I bought, so it's PSU upgrade time again!

    Regarding the old AGP box, this was the first time I just didn't toss out a barebones PSU. The budget motherboards are okay (usually Nvidia 405 6100 or AMD 690V or G) and the aluminum cases are okay, but the PSU's are trouble. I just didn't have the spare $50 for even an Ultra at Fry's that week and I wanted to put the AGP rig in the bedroom. It lasted a week or so before it died while I was playing HOMM III.

    All of our current power supplies have active PFC and are tier 2, except for the 500 watt Truepower which is tier 3. They need to update this list with the new PSU's:
    http://www.tomswiki.com/page/Tiered+PSU+Listings?t=anon

    When I get the Antec TPQ 850, I'll get one of those chozzerai Via boards and see if everything else is okay, because I can use the 500 watt Truepower in the new AGP rig. It's worth it for the All in Wonder Radeon 9800 alone. That is, if the card's not fried along with the motherboard.

    Anonymous said:
    8 Pin power conector bloody hell what kind of PSU are you going to need for that ? Im doubting anybody who has a shop bought AGP rig with a Athalon or P4 will have the power to run one of these any way.
    Mactronix


    That's for sure! I have an Antec Neo 550 in my PC and an Antec Truepower 500 in my wife's and neither has a 6+2 connector for PCIe. I could not find any listed adapters for that new PCIe standard. That's why I have to get an Antec TPQ 850 next week, otherwise it's take a restocking fee on the MSI 3870x2.

    I could see someone with a good socket 939 X2 upgrading to a newer PSU (the Antec Neo 650 has the right connector for $99 at Newegg), but I wouldn't pay $99 for a new PSU for a P4 rig, though I should have paid $50 for anything other than a barebones PSU!

    AGP needs to rest in peace.
  6. Those cards require, as far as I know, a 6-pin power connector. Like the 2600 XT AGP does. And as can be seen as an example on Visiontek's product page:

    http://www.visiontek.com/products/cards/retail/2600XT_AGP_512.html

    Those adapters usually go from two 4-pin molex connectors to one 6-pin PCI-Express connector. Because, as I heard, they need power from two independent voltage lanes from the PSU. Some adapters only convert from one 4-pin connector to 6. But if the Sapphire 3850 wants 8-pin power, so be it.

    Getting another PSU for a video card that requires external power, when you already have a good PSU, isn't smart. Looky here:

    http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html

    and here

    http://www.xoxide.com/4-pin-molex-to-pci-express-adapter.html

    and here

    http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=186&products_id=21721&zenid=81597b76898870461ec38e3f4c8872db

    and here

    http://www.highpowersupply.com/product-ac-PCIX.htm

    and I think I could go on. Look harder next time, maybe ?
  7. To the guy with the dual p3's, sorry but putting a 3850 in a p3 system is going to bottleneck like no other. Most games don't support multi-threading, and the few that do, dual p3's won't be nearly adequate. For all intents and purposes, for gaming you have a single 1.4GHz P3, and that's going to bottleneck a 3850 like crazy. I would have gone with a x1950pro if I were you, and put the money saved towards a new board and CPU. Remember, you can get a cheap dual core, board, and RAM for about $200.
  8. Ok, I want everyobody to please tell me why the guys who refurbish cars pick an old car chassis and put everything else new on it: engine, brakes, alloy wheels, gearbox, electrical gadgets, etc.

    The cars they're making were certainly not made for such big engines. They always go "I like how old things look and I like how new things work." Certainly, in the computers' case it's not about looks, it's just about not throwing away a motherboard just because it's old. And in this particular case, I'd have to throw away the motherboard, the processors, the RAM, the case, the power supply. Why ? Because it's old. And too slow for some new games that are most likely crap. I'm not going to try and play Bioshock on it! But why not be able to play Far Cry with maximum details ? Or maybe Doom 3 ? Just because some people are way too hooked up on "the new" to realize the fact that older hardware does run new software in amazingly many cases ?
  9. I too registered just to post on this topic. Fortunately my mobo supports agp 8x so no problems with upgrading to a 3850 agp (if it comes out i hope :cry: ) from my old trusty x800pro @ xtpe speeds (16pipes unlocked).

    About pci-e being faster ya it is faster in a way but only the upmost high end gpus will ever reach its full or half potential like KlyeSTL said..

    heres a link to what i meant (great find)
    http://www.kyol.net/%7Eharrycat/Goldfinger.html
  10. Quote:
    Ok, I want everyobody to please tell me why the guys who refurbish cars pick an old car chassis and put everything else new on it: engine, brakes, alloy wheels, gearbox, electrical gadgets, etc.


    You do realize that all the car parts you listed is like buying a new CPU, RAM, mobo, PSU, etc? The car chassis is nothing more than a computer case.

    Far as your system is concerned (since you brought up cars, I'll use a car analogy), your engine block is old and no longer being made by the manufactures. What happens when you're engine block cracks? You buy a new one and rebuild. Then again, you could pick up a used one at a junk yard, but is it really worth getting a used one in the long run?
  11. Yes, but CPUs don't "crack" like engines indeed do. I'm not overclocking or running without a cooler. And it's not about which one should you get, new or old, it's about not throwing it away when you already have it. Of course you should get a new one when you have none at all.
    Can someone count how many times I said "it's about not throwing the old stuff, and not about choosing old stuff over new stuff" ?
  12. The engine block was being compared to a motherboard actually. Long story short, your system is outdated and obsolete. Adding that card to your system would be like dropping a V8 into a 1972 Ford Pinto. I might be old school, but even I know there's a point where it's cheaper and easier in the long run to build a new system then try to keep obsolete technology up to date.

    Edit: Do I throw out the old computers? No. I just fixed up a 1.8Ghz Athlon with old parts I have laying around and gave it away for free. Would I had spend money into to bring it up to date? No. I sure wouldn't spend $150+ to add a new GPU in it when I can buy a brand new AM2+ mobo and a basic CPU for $150.
  13. I said it before: outdated in terms of some present-day applications. I do video-encoding on this machine!

    In my view, obsolete means anything before a 486 processor. Because they can't run Win 9x.

    Cheaper and easier ? Again, selling an old machine that's sitting in your home is not going to get you enough money for a new, cheap system. So instead of getting a cheap dual-core system for $200 like someone said, and then a decent video card for more, the logic is "max out what you have" like someone else said. After putting a PCI SATA controller in an old system, the latest AGP video card that is compatible with it, USB 2.0 controller, TV tuner, best processor it can support, maximum amount of RAM and so on, it's maxed out. That's the most it can do. And you can run quite a few recent things on it. Not Crysis, maybe, but Far Cry works on a single 933 MHz processor. Maybe even less.
    Adobe Premiere Pro, since 2.0, requires SSE2. But there's 1.5. And I could go on. It's limited, but you can still do things with it.

    This is also a high-end system for its time. A nowadays' high-end system is worth a lot of money. Look at how much a Dell Precision Workstation T7400 costs nowadays, as an example. I know this system has poorer performance than nowadays' low-end systems, but again, low-end means there is room for upgrade.

    On a side note, Socket 939 systems support a maximum of 4 GB RAM. That is, depending on the chipset and on wether you have a processor with AMD64 (I don't know if all of them do, since the Athlon 64 was invented).

    Think what you will, I wasn't trying to impose my views on anyone. I'm tired of trying to prove Vista will run on anything down to a mere K5 100 MHz and XP on Pentium Overdrive 63 MHz to people who have been bombarded by aggresive advertising.
  14. j_me said:
    I said it before: outdated in terms of some present-day applications. I do video-encoding on this machine!

    In my view, obsolete means anything before a 486 processor. Because they can't run Win 9x.

    Cheaper and easier ? Again, selling an old machine that's sitting in your home is not going to get you enough money for a new, cheap system. So instead of getting a cheap dual-core system for $200 like someone said, and then a decent video card for more, the logic is "max out what you have" like someone else said. After putting a PCI SATA controller in an old system, the latest AGP video card that is compatible with it, USB 2.0 controller, TV tuner, best processor it can support, maximum amount of RAM and so on, it's maxed out. That's the most it can do. And you can run quite a few recent things on it. Not Crysis, maybe, but Far Cry works on a single 933 MHz processor. Maybe even less.
    Adobe Premiere Pro, since 2.0, requires SSE2. But there's 1.5. And I could go on. It's limited, but you can still do things with it.

    This is also a high-end system for its time. A nowadays' high-end system is worth a lot of money. Look at how much a Dell Precision Workstation T7400 costs nowadays, as an example. I know this system has poorer performance than nowadays' low-end systems, but again, low-end means there is room for upgrade.

    On a side note, Socket 939 systems support a maximum of 4 GB RAM. That is, depending on the chipset and on wether you have a processor with AMD64 (I don't know if all of them do, since the Athlon 64 was invented).

    Think what you will, I wasn't trying to impose my views on anyone. I'm tired of trying to prove Vista will run on anything down to a mere K5 100 MHz and XP on Pentium Overdrive 63 MHz to people who have been bombarded by aggresive advertising.



    I have to agree with you in many levels.
    I like a lot to take a machine from the good old times and squeeze the maximum out of it, because it may no longer be good for the most recent games, which lots of them are actual caRp, but it's perfect for anything else!
    Btw i would love to have a system similar to yours.
    Pentium 3 1ghz above are better than its p4 counter parts.
  15. WHY is AGP no dead yet ?!?!?
  16. What do you have against it?
  17. ^Nothing against AGP, but most of the AGP systems are old and not worth upgrading imho.
  18. Watch out the luddites are getting restless. [:thegreatgrapeape:4]

  19. okiess old stuff are great imo, thats why people will still pay big bucks for things like classic arcade machines!

    so back on topic, when is this cards retail release? newegg?
  20. There must be a few people out there like me with dual core agpx8 systems not really to trash there setup just yet.

    I'm running a pen d 3ghz,600 watt psu sata. Not top of the line but not a junker.

    So for 4 dollars off ebay i can get a pcie adapter and 3850 i should be able to run for another year or so :) Maybe pop in a E6600 in few months.

    Now only thing is Where can i buy 3850 agp in the U.S :) I been waiting......
  21. I'm gettin a little bit confused. Someone was saying you shouldnt buy this card if you have single-core p4. What about HT?

    I ran SuperPi on my system and the results were about like the results of an AM2+ AMD Athlon X2 4800+ processor.
    This is my system:
    -Asus P4P800 Se mobo
    -Intel Pentium 4 Prescott 3.2 GHz HTT
    -1536mb RAM(DDRI, pc3200)
    -XFX GeForce 6800 LE 128 mb(unlocked to full ultra core)

    Would I improve my system replacing de 6800 by this 3850 card?

    The reasons Im confused is that someone is telling you shouldnt use singlecore p4 etc, but at least X2 or C2D processor's.
    But its still a fact that my proc is better than the 4800+(or comparable)

    Thanks
  22. Klementino, since I plan on getting a 3850 AGP (and I have AGP 4x and dual P3), I don't know why you're asking :)
    It's your choice, but if I was you, I'd get one. My opinion. The overall performance increase won't be incredibly high, but still. DX10.1 hasn't even been released yet, so I'm guessing it will last for ages like DX 9.0c has.

    sendkeys, the same to you. You have LGA775 and AGP8x, apparently. A PCIe (power) adapter will most probably be included with the Sapphire 3850 AGP. Maybe also with the Powercolor, or Gecube. I really don't think you'll bottleneck the 3850 with your system. If you get the latest supported processor and maximum amount of ram, it's gonna get even better :)
  23. If the 3850 AGP has hardware acceleration for H.264 and VC-1 then it could be a great way to turn an old socket 478 into a viable 1080p HTPC. I currently run a Northwood P4 at 3.36ghz with an x1950 pro agp. Unfortunately that card, while a great gaming card, doesn't do much to taking CPU load away while playing h.264 movies.

    If they can sell this card cheap, I could get it after finally putting together a new machine for work and games, and resurrect my good ole 478 as a HTPC.
  24. I have an old P4 2.6Ghz with 1GB PC2100 ram in it I'm pretty sure this video card will bottleneck the hell out of. Also its only a 4X AGP slot.


    At best I would get the x1650pro for it, I'm pretty sure anything more powerful will just be a waste.
  25. klementino said:

    But its still a fact that my proc is better than the 4800+(or comparable)


    Who says that's a fact?

    The Pentium 4 gets destroyed by equivalent numbered AMD64s, let alone an X2.

    Maybe if you were encoding media the P4 would be comparable, but for gaming the P4 (even P4Ds) trail the Athlons.
  26. haftarun8 said:
    If the 3850 AGP has hardware acceleration for H.264 and VC-1 then it could be a great way to turn an old socket 478 into a viable 1080p HTPC. I currently run a Northwood P4 at 3.36ghz with an x1950 pro agp. Unfortunately that card, while a great gaming card, doesn't do much to taking CPU load away while playing h.264 movies.

    If they can sell this card cheap, I could get it after finally putting together a new machine for work and games, and resurrect my good ole 478 as a HTPC.


    A P4 for an HTPC defeats the purpose of quiet with low power -- even if it's a Northwood on socket 478.

    The ideal HTPC would be the following:

    upcoming 65 watt 1.8 gigahertz B3 stepping Phenom 9000
    Bluray drive
    780G board with 3470 for hybrid Crossfire, AVIVO and h264
    750 gig Seagate
    2 gigs DDR2

    We encoded data DVD's of unlicensed anime fansubs, and my wife's Morrowind modding for many years on a P4 2.8 Northwood, and it was slow. We also recorded TV with our AIW 9800 Pro for four years. Unless budget is the main factor, aging AGP systems should be put out to pasture. Even an Athlon X2 3800+ or a Pentium C2D beats a Northwood or Prescott for an HTPC, both in terms of processing power and in terms of thermals.

    The 3xxx series cards correct the mistakes of the midrange X2900's. They have hardware h.264 and come with AVIVO. If I were going for a light gaming PC that doubled as an HTPC, it would have a 3850, but the 780G motherboards arriving on March 5 with hybrid Crossfire make good use of both the DX10 IGP and the low profile HD 34xx cards. Though a budget Athlon X2 or C2D would be good too, that low power Phenom seems designed for HTPC use.
  27. klementino said:
    I'm gettin a little bit confused. Someone was saying you shouldnt buy this card if you have single-core p4. What about HT?
    .....

    Probably because the single core might bottle neck the card, depending on game,etc.
  28. Also, HT is still single core, so really when it's a CPU bottleneck you're still @ 100%.

    HT is beneficial when you have partial workloads.
  29. j_me, I can respect the fact that for what it is, you seem to have a great system. At the same time, if you look, you can get a newer, more upgradeable setup for cheap. I'm willing to bet you could get a case, AM2+ motherboard, dual core chip, and 2 gb of memory for 200-250. I mean I understand maxing your old system, that's fine, but if you spend money on different controllers and what not, and add ons, you can have something loads faster. Man I am telling you, I know what your saying. I had an AMD Athlon XP 2800+, that thing was a champ, I ran that dude for about 5 years because I saw no need to upgrade. Finally went to an Athlon x2 5200+, I'm sorry, even if I had a setup running 2 of those 2800's similar to your p3's, this cpu would spank it. There are no 2 ways around it. I mean your dual setup is great, I am not bashing it in anyway, but for all the money you are putting into it, you could have yourself a system that would do way more than what you can do now.

    The sad part is though, you'd think older technology would be cheaper, as I looked at different things before upgrading, I found that the old technology is costing more and more. You can do what you want bro. But for the money you are sinking into that rig, you could have a much much much better setup. That said, I give you props for having a great system, all things considered.
  30. Well thanks, but you see, the latest system I'd want...that's a Dell Precision Workstation T7400 (if I remember correctly). I'm willing to wait and hope that Intel picks XDR ram as their new standard, and THEN get a new system (multi processor, multi core). That way I can play whatever game while encoding videos. See where I'm getting to ? I don't want a cheap AM2 system, the only AMD system I have is a Super Socket 7 (that k6-III+ 450 is so good). Even that system would be beaten to death by a dual socket 8 system with Pentium 2 Overdrive processors on it (333 MHz was the fastest one I think).
    A friend asked me to upgrade his system. AM2 board, MSI. DDR2-800. nVidia nForce 550 chipset, I think. The system wouldn't hold more than 4 GB ram, and it doesn't even recognize it because of the chipset. It doesn't matter that the Black Edition 5000+ I got for him has AMD64 instructions - the chipset can't do that trick to recognize 4 GB (only a few, fairly recent chipsets do). It doesn't matter that the Black Edition has an unlocked multiplier...the board didn't have the BIOS option to change the multiplier! I complained and they pointed me to a ftp link where they uploaded a BIOS with that setting. Still, there was no CPU Vcore adjustment. There's a new BIOS out but haven't had the chance to flash it and overclock the guy's CPU.
    And that motherboard is what you would call average. He had 512 ram before, and a sempron 1.6 GHz. And a 7300 GS which I replaced with an 8600 GT. The board has PCIe x8, by the way, so if there will ever be a card using all the x16 bandwith, it's going to be bottlenecked by his motherboard. Couldn't upgrade that, because he has a licensed Windows XP Home Edition. You lose the license if you get another motherboard. I had to re-activate his copy anyway.
    Mid-range? No, thank you! If it's mid-range towards high-end, it's acceptable, yes. A lot of people with decent motherboards could max out their systems (the P4 HT people, the Pentium-D people, Socket 939 people, etc.) and live happily for a few years with a 3850 AGP. More expensive, yes, in my case maybe. But how much for the latest P4 HT, socket 478 or LGA775?
  31. Actually, not recognizing the 4 gb isn't so bad...as if it's a 32 bit OS, 32 bit OSes don't seem to know how to handle 4 gb anyway. Something about the way it handles the addressing and what not. And from what I've read, 2gb on vista seems to be good, like that seems to be the sweet spot there, I've got 2 gb and it runs excellent.

    A trick for you. I think my board is a 570...

    Here it actually is if you want to look at it...

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128014

    At least on mine, the trick to get the advanced overclocking options in the bios is to hit control-f1 when you get to the bios.

    No you don't lose the license. The license is 1 copy to 1 machine right? Basically. Even if it's OEM, if he takes even 1 part of his old build with him, still ok, b/c he's technically still using it with the same piece of hardware he bought it with no? XP is just anal about licensing and activation b/c the way they run it to check what you have, if it changes so drastically like by changing a motherboard, it throws that out at you.

    Like me, my system might be "mid range" which is not bad, but then I get a bios update and pop in a newer phenom, once they get that bug fixed, and a little better video, I'd be set for a while. Hey, even this 5200 does what I want it to. And if I had a little better ram, overclocking looks very easy on this board. I just think that as you progress yeah you can say you only want high end, nothing wrong with that. But I've found it's better to get what is just behind cutting edge, and then you maximize cost/performance. But that's easier to say that do, lol.
  32. Let me tell you how it goes: if the BIOS counts 4 GB of RAM, then you only need a 64-bit capable processor and a 64-bit OS to enjoy them. This guy's mobo didn't count 4 GB, only 3.3 or something. So even if I installed a 64-bit OS it would still have 3.3 GB. Case in point, a friend of mine has a Core 2 Duo with P35 chipset and two 2 GB modules in dual channel. The BIOS counts 4 GB. In 32-bit Windowses, he got less, in 64-bit he got exactly the same amount as the motherboard's BIOS counted.

    So, I removed one 1 GB module for that other guy and it was down to 3 GB at the RAM count stage (again, from 3.3). He has the advantage of having dual-channel but that fourth module only feeds resources allocated for motherboard and such.

    He didn't lose the license because I upgraded the RAM, video card and processor. He would have lost it if I got him another motherboard (that's what they consider the "machine"). That's how I know Windows licenses work.
    The kicker - even after I removed ONLY the DDR2-667 512 MB module and added two DDR2-800 1 GB modules (for testing), Windows jumped: critical hardware change, need reactivation, you have 3 days!
  33. now is my question:
    will my system improve if ill replace my 6800 LE(completely unlocked) or not. And it will, is it worth the 180 euros?(thats the price here in holland, and yes: i know thats very high, its because of the tax here in holland, stupid government:P)
    can you please speak in %?
    The main goal is having better(its already good now, but i want more!) gameplay(graphics etc) while playing COD4.
    Im now playing on 1024*768 on low/med quality and 70-95 fps(depends on color, when the graphics card has to display the game in black/white it will decrease to 40-50, but thats still ok;)(most of times at end of game/round when displaying: defeat or victory!))
  34. Your system already has AGP 8x, so the card won't be bottlenecked by the bandwith. The processor, if it proves to be insufficient, can be replaced with the best CPU for the socket 478, the SL7CH (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL7CH )

    Worth it ? surely the system will perform better, but I have no idea by how much. A 6800 GT is kind of on par to the performance of the 7600. This is two generations above, but Ati's chips are kinda killed when it comes to antialiasing and anisotropic filtering (don't take my word for it, read some reviews). In 1024x768 it should perform very well, as far as I remember from the tests I've seen. The chipset is the second-best for the socket 478 (intel 865, the best is 875), which means it shouldn't interfere with performance.
  35. Should i get a agp 3850? is it worth it? If not how much do you think i can sell my rig for (specs bellow)

    Mobo: DFI 875p rev. b (not lan party)
    CPU: socket 478 Pentium 4 EE 3.4ghz (oced to 3.9ghz)
    Memory: OCZ Platinum rev 2 (2-2-2-5) PC3200 2 gig dual channel
    Video: HIS X1950pro 512mb agp rev.2 (597mhz core/1.54ghz memory)
    Hard drive: WD 120gig SATA 150 (8mb cache)
    PSU: 500 watt Antec Basiq
    Case: generic
    DVD drive: Sony 16x PATA
    DVD burnner: Memorex 16x read/write DVD-r DL 4x
    OS:none, (hard drive will be formated)
  36. Let me explain my findings,,,

    Ive built and upgraded my socket 478 for over five years now to keep with the latest games at reasonable framerates on the best settings avaliable.

    current system, chaintek apogee intel 865 pg 800mhz fsb mobo with sata I controllers and 4gb max ddr 400mhz support. Board is five years old now with 2005 award bios revision 5. Intel p4 3.0ghz 1mb cache 800mhz fsb with ht, purchased from ebay three weeks ago for a pittance to replace older p4 2.8 512k, cooled with Zalman Flower for s478, Socket A boards.. 2gb, 4x512 matched ddr400 2,2,2,5. 1x samsumg spinpoint 250 gb hdd sata II 1 x wd 500gb 16mbche sataII 1 x lacie 250gb external firewire for critical os backups. Sapphire 1950pro 8x agp 512 mb card with zalman flower cooler installed. 650w jeantec arctic modular psu. creative Xf-I Xtreme Audio and wintv tuning card all in luxurious Jeantec Gaming Case. Driving 22 inch 1600x1050 tft widescreen.

    Now the point is, over five years ive replaced the processor twice from origional 2.53 quad pumped to 3.0ghz p4 ht with sse3, (Prescott) for roughly £39.00 in total ( E-Bay Rocks, always look for parts posted in incorrect categories, not many people do which is why the bargains are to be had, be vigilant, be patient), Graphics several times, only two new cards, 6800 and 1950 pro, for £210 minus sale of 6800, Harddrives for £ 150 minus sales of older ide drives also read for future use, memory replaced once for £80 minus sales of older memory, new psu for future use £65, creative sound for future use, £35.00 and case for lifetime of ATX £ 55.00.

    So for about £500 in parts over 5 years not destined for new 32nm intel upgrade path which i will sit quite happy to wait for on my current system, ive been able to keep up with all the current modern games at great settings on big screen----- untill now!!!!!!!!!!!!

    My honest opinion, modern games need fast CPU'S the AI is just too immense on the games I like, ESP rts games, even the AI on games such as Colin MCrae dirt and NFS Pro Street need fast Dual Core.

    Overclocking my p4 3.0 to well in the region of 3.7ghz by dropping mem speed in bios to 366, volting p4 to 1.415v and slamming 0.30V on V-Dimms makes these games just playable, Crysis runs ok on my machine now at mixed med and high settings, (Shadows always on med) at native 1600 x 1050 with between 20 and 30 fps, sometimes stuttering at 15 fps in later icy regions. COD 4 plays good as well with above 30fps in almost all situations on native res and high settings and 2x AA 16 Anistropic filtering.
    3dmark 05 9600 3dmark 06 5900 superpi 1m 31sec

    The important thing is this will keep me playing Lord of the Rings online at max settings native res 8x AA (ATI tray tools settings) with between 35 and 45 FPS, Long live Tolkien and Long live MMORG (llf book 9 chapter 1, have healer.LOL)

    My sapphire card rocks like stink, have always loved nvidia ( gf4mx440, ti4200, 5200fx, 5700fx, 6800gt) but this ati offering is sublime for price i got it at back over 1 1/2 year ago. I have gpu up to 641mhz and mem at 1600 mhz (800ddr) constantly in 3d, but this with catalyst 8.1, all 7.x do not allow mem to clock on sapphire card. Now at this I know that the 1950 is bottlenecked not by agp8x but by the processor, no person in their right mind would upgrade to 3850 over 1950 with similar high spec 3-5 year old agp system as the peformance increase would be minimal for money spent, even more so with lesser processors than 3.oghz p4 prescot or athlon 64 clocked to 2.6ghz true clokck speed. Only socket 939 X2 or Dual core agp, pcie x8 boards with good components should even consider 3850 agp as worthy stopgap upgrade. I know my rig is at the end of its shelf life but am happy to say that the upgrade path I have chosen for 5 yrs has paid off and I have the money in the Kitty now for the onset of 32nm processors 2009. I know that choice will give me another 3-5 yrs upgrade for minimal cost.

    Anyone looking to get dx10.1 support on vista is having a bleeding laugh, You what, let me say again, it will not work on older agp systems, I REPEAT>>> You will not get playable framerates on any good modern dx10 game at all. Vista is rubbish in anycase, have vista ultimate and dual boot between 2x winXP (1 gaming os, 1 Work os) 1 linux (Ubuntu) and Vista. XP is and will remain to be the choice OS for gamers the world over untill GPU'S power rocket ships and microsoft really put good dx10 into their games not just press release pics (NEone for Flight Sim X Acceleration please LOL). Ultimately, even super fast dual/quad core silly clocked to 1000bil ghz 1600mhz or greater mem ,radeon 3870, nvidia 8800gt, gts, gtx, ultra, sli, crossfire, sli3way, and the upcoming doubtfull crossfirex can meek out good framerates on the few dx10 titles avaliable, so what hope is there for a pc that cant really keep up with modern dx9 games at decent frame and settings, (Ever played oblivian on med/med low settings, what is the point, (Thank God for 1950 pro, let me go right to the end with hdr enabled)

    Final Thoughts about 3850, save your money unless for owners of x2 , dual core agp boards, saying that, if the price is right at launch and you have good spec 478 board but nvidia 6800 or less agp card, could see u through another years gaming, esp on all those 2005, 2006 games you would love so much to crank right up, just forget any AI intensive modern games like Dirt, pro street, world in conflict.
  37. Parkardbel l486dx2, I would upgrade. You apparently have a G4H875-P. That's a great board.
  38. will AGP every go away? are there benchies comparing this card with a PCIe one?
  39. It's hard to find the card, gwolfman. I haven't seen it on Newegg as of yet.
  40. It should be available later this month. Feb 22, is one date I've heard. Seems some people got their hands on them early, but rumor has it drivers caused them to be taken off the shelves at those stores. Not sure if that's true or if they jumped a release date.
  41. parkardbell486dx2 said:
    Should i get a agp 3850? is it worth it? If not how much do you think i can sell my rig for (specs bellow)

    Mobo: DFI 875p rev. b (not lan party)
    CPU: socket 478 Pentium 4 EE 3.4ghz (oced to 3.9ghz)
    Memory: OCZ Platinum rev 2 (2-2-2-5) PC3200 2 gig dual channel
    Video: HIS X1950pro 512mb agp rev.2 (597mhz core/1.54ghz memory)
    Hard drive: WD 120gig SATA 150 (8mb cache)
    PSU: 500 watt Antec Basiq
    Case: generic
    DVD drive: Sony 16x PATA
    DVD burnner: Memorex 16x read/write DVD-r DL 4x
    OS:none, (hard drive will be formated)



    I'm not sure you'd see too much increase in performance. The card you have already is a great card.
    I would say your system wouldn't sell for anymore than $300-$400.
  42. Anonymous said:
    I'm not sure you'd see too much increase in performance. The card you have already is a great card.
    I would say your system wouldn't sell for anymore than $300-$400.

    Agreed, stick with the card you have, when you can no longer have an enjoyable playing experience with your current system, do a full upgrade.
  43. Sweet! yes you did; nice find. Not too bad a price either. Doesn't mention clock speeds to know if they dumbed them down from the PCI-e versions. Man, I Wish I could buy one to test vs PCI-e on my Asrock 939 dual SATA 2. Eh, but mine is a 256MB PCI-e version just. Hopefully some review sites will do this test 512MB vs 512MB on same system with native PCI-e and AGP.
  44. Forums went down last night, wanted to add this pic. At that price I may have even bought one as after shipping and tax that is $30 cheaper to my door than Newegg.

  45. So I was right. It is $200. if I was running an old AGP system, I would save up another $200 and build a new system.
  46. $200 isn't bad considering PCI-e versions aren't much cheaper. Unfortunately, I think if supply is short we will see themout of stock and at $250 on the street.

    I don't see any problem with an A64 or X2 owner wanting one last AGP card for $200 if it keeps up with the PCI-e version which it should. AGP 8X didn't hurt the X1950 pro, I'm curious if it would this card. (Come on Cleeve, put that Asrock to use in a review of this please. Put a HD2600XT AGP in there too.) :)

    Rumors are this card is clocked 702 MHz core / 846 MHz mem (1692MHz effective). That put's it above Sapphire 512MB PCI-e HD3850 clocked 668Mhz/1656MHz effective. I feared it would be dumbed down like the Gecube X1950XT was.
  47. Yeah, Socket 775 owners who can't run Core2Duo's or socket 939 owners I can see buying this. Matching this with a Pentium D or an X2 would be a nice upgrade. Anything older than that, I would suggest building a new rig.
  48. yeah, I agree. And the average athlon XP owner would be better suited with an HD2600XT for half that cost ($100 shipped newegg now), or upgrading the rig to go above that.
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