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9800 GX2 on THG

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Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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January 5, 2008 3:41:45 AM

Hopefully Im not to late, but it looks like THG has some good pictures on the 9800GX2.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/01/05/exclusive_nvidia...

More about : 9800 gx2 thg

January 5, 2008 4:23:13 AM

The 9800gx2 is crap. It is essentially two G92 8800GTS' strapped together. No new technology is involved. Meaning, no fantastic gains in performance over current tech. I'm sorry but 30% is not worth the price they will charge for it. especially for people who game at high res, it only has 512mb of ram per core, so at high res, it may be a lot closer to the ultra in performance.

If the speculation is wrong and it is an entirely new Arch, then maybe it will be worth it. But I doubt it. nvidia is just trying to get the suckers to buy it so they can have more profits.
a b U Graphics card
January 5, 2008 4:24:05 AM

Omg those cards are so dam sexy
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January 5, 2008 4:32:15 AM

they suck, not even a 50% increase
January 5, 2008 4:56:03 AM

Anyone else notice what looks like an optical audio out below the displayport plug?
January 5, 2008 5:04:24 AM

Could be, I thought that was where the generator gets plugged in.
January 5, 2008 5:09:41 AM

maverick9611 said:
Anyone else notice what looks like an optical audio out below the displayport plug?



I saw that too... But it could be an optical in so it can pass the signal through HDMI. Asus had a 7600GT with HDMI and it worked in similar ways (I think).

I pretty much agree with everyone else in terms for performance. I just posted it up because it was something new to look at. I guess manufacturers can only prove us wrong. Under promise and overachieve or it seems as though ATI lately has been over promising and under overachieving. I would definitely like to see some solid competition.
January 5, 2008 5:10:26 AM

I dont see any mention of it on other sites or forums. It may be for optical in but there have also been rumors about Nvidia or AMD putting sound into thier graphics cards

And is that HDMI or displayport? I cant really tell the difference
January 5, 2008 5:16:02 AM

Nevermind, that looks like HDMI... Ive been looking at too many displayport monitors for CES today
January 5, 2008 6:54:19 AM

soloman02 said:
The 9800gx2 is crap. It is essentially two G92 8800GTS' strapped together. No new technology is involved. Meaning, no fantastic gains in performance over current tech. I'm sorry but 30% is not worth the price they will charge for it. especially for people who game at high res, it only has 512mb of ram per core, so at high res, it may be a lot closer to the ultra in performance.


I've read the average boost in SLi is only about 30%. So two 8800GTS's tied together sounds like what it's gonna be. But if you figure in SLi, and put two of these in, then you got like 4 8800 GTS's. But geeze it's just pictures so nobody knows.

I want the price tag and benchmarks. Preferrably now.
a b U Graphics card
January 5, 2008 12:02:43 PM

they dont suck actually.. itll benefit the mainstream market since the 8800 will go down in prices wohoo
January 5, 2008 12:28:15 PM

it looks sexy :p 

I regretted for about 3 seconds buying my 8800gt (last night), but then thought

A) i wont be able to afford this for about 3 years
B) Its not much better than the gt for the money
C) The GT wont loose too much money anyway since it will still be the card everyone will probly buy.
January 5, 2008 12:44:11 PM

That's what happens when Nvidia promises a video card that is over 100% the performance of the current 8800 GTX...remember those promises? Over one teraflop of performance? Double-triple the power of a 8800 GTX?

Yeah...they put the bars of hope too high.
January 5, 2008 12:48:01 PM

This is a 8900/8950GX2 not a 9800. Or at least that is what they should call it!
January 5, 2008 1:03:42 PM

nightscope said:
That's what happens when Nvidia promises a video card that is over 100% the performance of the current 8800 GTX...remember those promises? Over one teraflop of performance? Double-triple the power of a 8800 GTX?

Yeah...they put the bars of hope too high.


As far as the teraflop goes as I've said countless times, they most likely were referring to the Tesla, but everyone mistook it for the G92 (And the rumors didn't help one bit), and in case you haven't been reading this isn't a next gen card, so there's no way they can achieve that kind of performance on the same chips. It's the same with Ati and the HD 3K, it isn't a next gen card, just a name naming scheme, and if it troubles you so much then think of the HD3k as HD2950 and 9800 as a 8900.
January 5, 2008 1:10:03 PM

It won't even be as fast as 2 8800 cards in SLI since nvidia will underclock them to keep the heat in check. Basically this is a desperate mans single card SLI setup.
January 5, 2008 1:11:16 PM

partialsum said:
I've read the average boost in SLi is only about 30%. So two 8800GTS's tied together sounds like what it's gonna be. But if you figure in SLi, and put two of these in, then you got like 4 8800 GTS's. But geeze it's just pictures so nobody knows.

I want the price tag and benchmarks. Preferrably now.


*Sigh* Don't you remember all the excitement about putting 7950GX2's into SLI? How it never panned out? I'm expecting more of the same here. The tech is promising, but it too often fails to deliver. While on the surface it sounds great to have 4 8800GTS's in your system, in reality, with driver support for quad-SLI spotty at best, you'll be lucky to get even modest performance gains. Whether or not these gains off-set the purchase and power costs is up to the individual, but personally I'm just going to stick to single cards after my 7950GX2 fiasco. I wonder if, like the 7950, two G92 parts in SLI will slightly outperform one dual card.
January 5, 2008 1:24:37 PM

Honestly with AMD/ATI stepping up to the dual core single gpu's, I believe Nvidia will have no other choice to improve their quad sli drivers due to the fact that future gpu's will most likely all be dual cores (at least the high end).
January 5, 2008 1:47:40 PM

This seems like a silly card to call the 9800. Almost as silly as having an 8800GT that is faster that the old 8800GTS which has more memory than the new 8800GTS but is still slower than the new 8800GTS. Did I miss anything?
January 5, 2008 2:33:45 PM

kpo6969 said:
Could be, I thought that was where the generator gets plugged in.


LOL! Begin the photoshop contest!
January 5, 2008 2:41:55 PM

The 9800 GX2 looks more like something meant for bashing people's heads in than a video card. Given how big it is and it's specs methinks it might be better suited for this role.
January 5, 2008 2:48:04 PM

How would you know till we get reliable benchies?
Ryan
January 5, 2008 3:21:42 PM

i'm not judging before bench day happens either.

but it does look more like a cooling box i place my soldering iron into when i'm not using it.

but you could beat someone over the head with it i'm sure.
that's an expensive bat, though.

it certainly could look a little more appealing than a big black box.

and i'm a little concerned with the cooling system too...it doesn't look that great...
January 5, 2008 3:52:45 PM

maverick9611 said:
I dont see any mention of it on other sites or forums. It may be for optical in but there have also been rumors about Nvidia or AMD putting sound into thier graphics cards

And is that HDMI or displayport? I cant really tell the difference


ATI already has sound built onto thier video cards with the 2xxx series. I output both video and sound through the HDMI.
January 5, 2008 4:14:42 PM

no way worth the money... and doesnt this mean u need an sli capable board or the other core wont work.. wow thats gay (i have a maximus formula.. :(  )

where the hell is the new architecture... that is so lame
January 5, 2008 4:22:12 PM

I havent seen so much crap in one thread.

NO you DONT need a SlI capable board that is rubbish, complete rubbish.


30% average increase for SLI are you mad? Not only is that wrong but the average increase at higher res in which case you'd be buying this more powerful card is like double that. Some games scale 60%+.


As for not worth the money, someone tell me where you are getting this from? WHere is the price listed? It is'nt!


I just think most people are being silly. Toms even recommends 2x 8800GT for SLI over a higher end card as they are the best way to go, this card gives you that and you only need one pci-e slot. Plus it has 128shaders per core and if it's anything like the GX2 it will put out much less heat and draw much less power than 2x 8800GT.


SO whats the problem with it???


Also Quad SLI will now work because in DX10 you can increase the pre-render limit past3, so now its actually possible to make use of all 4 cards in AFR, aslong as you use high resolution of coarse, but why else would you want quad sli???

Seriously.. people make such stupid assumptions.


I think it will be a cracker of a card. If you don't like multi core tough **** because soon all cards will be multicore.
January 5, 2008 4:42:35 PM

Hatman said:
As for not worth the money, someone tell me where you are getting this from? WHere is the price listed? It is'nt!

Sometimes common sense takes over here, aka reasonable assumption. If the 8800GTX was around $600 when it first came out, we can probably assume it's gonna cost $600, which is a lot of money.
Hatman said:
I think it will be a cracker of a card. If you don't like multi core tough **** because soon all cards will be multicore.

I agree. Just like how cpus slowly changed into dual-core and quad-core, gpus most likely do the same.
January 5, 2008 4:51:54 PM

I don't see the overall incentive to go to multi-core GPU's. I mean, I'm pretty sure it will happen, but is there any need for it? Multi-core CPU's I can understand because of multi-tasking and running several things at once, but how many of us play two games simultaneously?
January 5, 2008 5:24:18 PM

Erm need to play 2 games at once.. no, SLI is multicore, it just has 2 cards, multi core would be SLI on a stick which is what this card steps towards. It plays one game not 2.


Reason I have known is that the amount of transistors on the cores are coming to a limit despite die shrinks.

SO instead of one big core, they will make smaller ones with less power each. Then say use 1core for low end, 2 cores for mid range and 4cores for high end.

So in effect they can even make more money like this and continue to increase performance. Otherwise they will hit the supposed wall.


But I also read on fudzilla, so choose whether to believe it or not, is that even at say 45nm it wont be small enough to incorporate a lot of cores onto a card, still only 2, it would be a big step though.


I actually doubt it will cost w/e depending on GTX I'm expecting it to be roughly the same cost as 2 8800GTS G92's. So actually probably more than $600 lol.
January 5, 2008 5:26:22 PM

emp said:
As far as the teraflop goes as I've said countless times, they most likely were referring to the Tesla, but everyone mistook it for the G92 (And the rumors didn't help one bit), and in case you haven't been reading this isn't a next gen card, so there's no way they can achieve that kind of performance on the same chips. It's the same with Ati and the HD 3K, it isn't a next gen card, just a name naming scheme, and if it troubles you so much then think of the HD3k as HD2950 and 9800 as a 8900.


I know it's not a next generation card...but it was promised that much of a performance increase. I'm pretty sure they were referring to the 9800 GX2 about the one teraflop and 300% performance gain.
January 5, 2008 5:31:54 PM

dual-core gpu's would make sense for rendering different scenes on right after the other.
January 5, 2008 5:56:48 PM

Hatman said:
I havent seen so much crap in one thread.

30% average increase for SLI are you mad? Not only is that wrong but the average increase at higher res in which case you'd be buying this more powerful card is like double that. Some games scale 60%+.

As for not worth the money, someone tell me where you are getting this from? WHere is the price listed? It is'nt!

SO whats the problem with it???

Seriously.. people make such stupid assumptions.


I think it will be a cracker of a card.



http://en.expreview.com/?p=166#more-166

Well according to the expreview fellows we do have a price, and it may be as low as $449. It would be a fair price considering it is indeed said to only be 30% better then an ultra (which in turn is barely better then a G92 GTS). 60% would be nice, but it doesn't look like this card will do anything 60% better then an ultra.
Hopefully that price is real, and it would be a fair price for the power it offers. $600 would have been way too much for such a small boost over current 8800's.

People are disappointed with this, and you should be able to understand why! We waited all year to get this? A 30% increase? Games like Crysis need a LOT more power then this, and sadly the mainstream gamers (like me) can't see the game in it's full glory as we'd rather not pay $1200 for a SLI or TRI solution!
And if this card is working with SLI to order to function, expect the R680 to blast it or at least come very close, since it scales very well with x-fire.
after all..... The 8800GT may beat out the 3870... But when you have 2 8800gt's vs 2 3870's.... well you tell me what happens =)

Soooo, I wonder what they'll charge for the 9800GTX.... I can't see them pricing it higher then the GX2, so what do you fellows think? $350? And I wonder what ATI is going to do with the R680 pricing if the GX2 really is $450 :??: 

I was very unhappy with the news of the 9800 cards until I seen the pricing "may" be fair. Now let's hope the 9600GT is cheap enough!
January 5, 2008 8:15:43 PM

Don't forget to add to the low price the cost of a possible psu upgrade.
January 5, 2008 8:32:28 PM

PSU upgrade likely wont be needed a card in this format needs a lot less power than 2 cards of the same type.


I meant scale 60%. You cant just say it will be 30% better it will be different in diferent games at different resolutions because it uses SLI.


If SLI doesn't work in a game ultra would win, if you play at 1920x1200 with 4x AA in a game that scales well with SLI, this will destroy an ultra without competition.

See what I'm getting at?
January 6, 2008 3:24:11 AM

About the psu we can only speculate until it's released.
These are cards that have been released:
comparison 7950GX2
7950 GX2 _ 110W
7900 GX2 _143W
7900 GTX _84W
7950 GT __49W
7900 GT _ 48W
7900 GS _ 45W

comparison 9800GX2 ?
8800 Ultra__ 163W
8800 GTX __ 132W (768MB)
8800 GTS __ 92W ^ (512MB G92)
8800 GT ___ 78W (512MB)
8800 GT ___ 45W ^ (256MB)
8800 GTS OC_ 117W (640MB 576/1350)
8800 GTS __ 106W (640MB)
8800 GTS __ 103W (320MB)

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=7&t=9354
January 6, 2008 4:15:06 AM

i'm a former 7950gx2 owner, and i sold it for a 2900pro. theoretically, the 7950 was supposed to be just as fast as two 7900gt's in sli, while consuming less power (and trust me, that was definately not the case). now taking kpo6969's information into account, two 7900gt's in sli would be 48W x 2 = 96W. now the actual power consumption of the 7950gx2 was about 110 watts. as for the cooling on the 7950, it was pitiful. my card reached up to 100*C easily.

so now to give nvidia some credit (assuming they learned from their mistakes). what i can see them doing with the cooler is putting a heatsink on the cards that has heatpipes and is one piece, then using at least an 80mm fan to shoot air across the heatsink and right out of the back of the computer. also assuming that nvidia's entire research team has any smarts about them, i'm pretty sure that they figured out a better way to make the two pcb's work in tandem.

on the other hand, i'm fairly confident that a dual core gpu will be far more efficient than a dual pcb gpu. (just another assumption, so dont jump down my throat about it). also, i'm guessing that it will be easier to cool. think about it this way (in terms of cooling)...what will run cooler...a dual socket single core system of a single socket dual core system?

i have decent confidence in ati at this point since they do tend to learn from their mistakes. i'm sort of expecting a 3870 x2 to be somewhere in the area of crossfire'd 3850's performance wise, which according to most of the benchmarks i've seen is about the same as a single 8800gtx, sometimes less, sometimes more.

again, this whole thing, for the most part, has been all assumptions. we cant really know till the products are released and the benchmarks are out. this is just my 2 cents
January 6, 2008 5:36:57 AM

Even if this is just 2 G92 cores slapped together for those of us that have yet to jump on the 8800 bandwagon yet this may still be a good deal. The article says the expected price is $449 which would be a great deal if you don't already have an 8800.

Also this card shouldn't be limited to nForce boards which can become a costly investment especially for overclockers as most of the mid-range nForce boards are not great overclockers compared to the older lower priced run of the mill Intel boards.

Since this card shouldn't be limited to the nForce chipset, and is 2 G92s in a single slot what is all the hostility about? Yea if you already have dual 8800 cards then this card makes no since, but when you count the high costs of a good overclocking SLI board you are talking a big investment for those of us that don't wanna spend an extra $100 to $150 on a motherboard and $500 to $600 in graphics cards. If you are looking at SLI 8800s then you are prolly talking about a $250 board and 2 cards at least $250 a piece. While for this setup u should be able to use any board the Gigabyte DS3 series comes to mind and one card hopefully priced around $449. Makes since to me.
a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2008 6:08:37 AM

So what is the 9800GTX? If it is about the same speed as an ultra, then doesn't that make it basically an 8800GTS 512mb with a different sticker?
January 6, 2008 6:57:20 AM

Yes randomizer, that exactly what it is..... From the current information, it does indeed look like the 9800GTX is just a card to milk more money, what a shame indeed =\

Hopefully the cards will turn out to be a bit more powerful then what is currently being speculated.
a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2008 6:59:18 AM

So my guess is these are simply a newer revision of the G92 chip that can reach higher clocks so they are a bit faster than their "old" counterparts.
January 6, 2008 7:55:07 AM

Even though the 9800GTX will be a G92 also I don't think I see a problem with that. If prices are around $400 I could see myself picking one up but I guess we'll see. The 8800 G92 GT is at about $300, GTS is about $350 and it looks like the GX2 could be coming in at $450.

I hope they bump up the memory interface beyond 256 or even better beyond 384bit.
January 6, 2008 8:59:32 AM

Although I really do hate this current predicament in the GPU market, the 9800 GX2 would be a good choice for users wanting a single card sli solution on a p35/x38 mobo. After all, if we do go SLI we are forced with craptacular nvidia intel chipsets. So it does help out....But does that mean I like what's going on?, absolutely not.

Obviously a business needs to make profit in order to further the development of newer technologies and services...But I was expecting the 8800 GT/GTS g92 to be that final refresh. To see it happen again is flat out disgusting. Although the 9800 GX2 does hold a nice solution for a dual GPU SLI like product for intel chipset adopters (which without a doubt we all know, intels p35/x38 is infinitely better than 750I/780I), it's horrid to see the greediness running through Nvidia. Don't get me wrong, great graphics cards, but they had the audacity to just take their 650/680 chipsets and slap a BR-04 chip for tri sli and call it a "new chipset".

Now we have another refresh to drain more money from the consumer, while they milk their way to the next new architecture which we've been waiting so long for? Also, the fact that the 8800 GTX/Ultra have been the king for 14 months now....this is just sickening. Personally, I hope for Nvidia's demise when it comes to their chipset business...their new chipset is a slap in the face to consumers, yet they still pick it up. They also have the nerve to force users to adopt their chipsets if they want SLI, if their chipsets were worth it I wouldn't mind it at all, but considering how hot they get and the issues of the 650/680 are still there in this "new" 750/780 is appalling. Couple those factors with ANOTHER refresh to milk out even more money, distasteful....

Overall, It is a business, they tend to always steal the spotlight of their competitors products with their own launches...But honestly, we've waited long enough, release a new architecture, there are many consumers who feel simply insulted and disgusted for spending 300-600 for the same technology that has been out for 14 months that is just shrunken down. Count me out till the next new nvidia architecture high end or ATI's r700. Personally, I know I will be picking up the new nvidia architecture high end for my upcoming rig. Why?, because I prefer nvidia's graphics partners with their special programs and lifetime warranties (XFX/EVGA). But I do hope that r700 will put a dent into Nvidia...They are simply pissning me off, with a lot of other people as well.
January 6, 2008 10:48:07 AM

I suppose then that the 9800GTX will have like 24ROPS 128shaders 32tmus and 384bit bus all unlocked but with the new huge clocks.
January 6, 2008 10:58:35 AM

lambofgode3x that isnt true at all, a 7900gt was rated at 82watts not 45watts. The 7950GX2 was praised because of its low power consumption and heat output for 3 cards in one.


As for performance I don't believe that either, SLI is SLI. No super dooper special SLI, you can see it here.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/vga-charts/battlef...
Even with clock speed boost it beats out the 7900GT's at high res.

But note that the real clocks of the 7900GT are much lower than those there, with real 7900GT clocks being 450 for the core and 1320(ddr) for the memory.
February 12, 2008 1:01:41 AM

I can see Nvidia brushing up on the prime issues that the dual-GPU 7 Series had, driver wise, they're not in this to loose money, although you may question that sometimes.
Anyway I'm pissed off since i just built a new rig with a BFG 8800 GTXO C2 (thinking it was the dogs nuts) inside it, and now i find myself compelled to RMA it and buy one of these puppies.
!