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Anybody else sick of crappy motherboards?

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January 29, 2008 3:35:50 PM

I currently have 4 $250+ motherboards that were or continue to be sold advertising features that don't work. I have ALL of these problems on the high end boards, plus a few on low end boards where I would expect issues.

2 Ethernet ports, only one works
IDE channel that doesn't work
On-board raid that doesn't work
Motherboards that auto-detect memory at the wrong speeds
Motherboards that auto-detect supported processors at the wrong speeds
Motherboard with CPU-Free that does have a CPU multiplier setting in the BIOS, that changes in the BIOS on an unlocked (EE) CPU, but does not actually affect processors speed.
Certain chipset brand that runs so hot it's impossible to run stable without additional fans.
Bios update to fix an issue, updated per manufacturers instructions followed to the letter, rendered mobo dead.

Everything I inquire about is a "chipset limitation"......yet there is no mention of it in revised manuals or advertisements.

The forums are full of angry people with parts that are no good, and online consumer reviews with 20+% DOA or failure within 2 weeks.....

Issues that get addressed with Bios updates are one thing. Issues that never get dealt with are another.

What responsibility do these manufacturers have to actually deliver what we pay for? There are motherboards out there selling for over $300 that have known issues. Are people suing? Are people working with manufactures to get replacement parts? Are people sending these boards back on RMA? I have not had any luck sending back parts on known issues because a replacement part will have the same issue. I am just expected to take it as it is. How do they write a manual and not actually check to make sure everything works? We wouldn't accept a car if a door didn't work, a transmission didn't shift or a start when we turned the key, why do we take it when its a motherboard?

Newegg has the best return policy I’ve ever come across, but even they are tired of getting motherboards back because they don’t work. They have changed their motherboard policy from 1 year to 30 days because it’s costing them so much money.

I have a failed part in for RMA right now. I called yesterday and was told at least 6 more weeks, fin addition to the 4 weeks I’ve been waiting, or I can substitute a part of 1/3 value today. I think I-we deserve better. Am I just expecting too much?


January 29, 2008 4:26:07 PM

a word: if they are selling you a $300 mobo, they saw you coming a mile away.
they call it the bleeding edge for a reason.
if you want rock solid, you gotta go for established tech. not for the newest, all new stuff is flawed and YOU are the proving ground. you can also probably blame intel for changing too many things to fast. i would have build intel for my last system, but the motherboard compatibilty issue was too much for me.
January 29, 2008 4:54:32 PM

Welcome to the wide, wide world of computing. If it was easy it wouldn't be much of a challenge and we would all have too much time on our hands. Seriously, I don't have those problems to any real degree and I buy the latest and hopefully greatest parts available. I do read quite a bit before I choose, though.
Related resources
January 29, 2008 5:35:26 PM

Ethernet ports, only one works - enable other in bios or if it is RMA the board, problem fixed
IDE channel that doesn't work - enable in bios or if it is RMA the board, problem fixed
On-board raid that doesn't work - RMA
Motherboards that auto-detect memory at the wrong speeds = set them manualy...
Motherboards that auto-detect supported processors at the wrong speeds - flash bios, to get supported processors to work, or RMA it.

why would you bother to keep all this failing equipment and not RMA it?
if they are selling you sub $300 motherboards... they have a realy good RMA system. I have RMA'd my boards many times, some due to jut up and failing, some.. because they don't swim to well.
but I always get it RMA'd then the problem is gone.


a b V Motherboard
January 29, 2008 5:44:07 PM

Can you tell us which motherboards these are?
a b V Motherboard
January 29, 2008 5:45:58 PM

After that rant, why not spill the beans and tell us what maker and model of mobos you are talking about.

I can't help but wonder how many of your issues are PEBCAK.

I learned a long time ago to not buy the first prodcution run of a mobo. Thanks for reminding me of why I wait until after there have been at least two BIOS updates before I buy a particular mobo.

January 29, 2008 5:50:48 PM

chunkymonster said:
... Thanks for reminding me of why I wait until after there have been at least two BIOS updates before I buy a particular mobo.



what difference does bios revisions do... wait a week and you will have a new one...
it's the board revisions you have to worry bout.


January 29, 2008 5:54:40 PM

I have been pleased with most motherboards I have ever purchased. I just think you need to pick the right one for the application.
a b V Motherboard
January 29, 2008 6:16:27 PM

MadHacker said:
what difference does bios revisions do... wait a week and you will have a new one...
it's the board revisions you have to worry bout.


It's just been my experience that after a couple/few BIOS updates most of the kinks have been worked out. Generally speaking, a BIOS update ensures/improves the baseline functionaility of the chipset. And, for me it's a combo of the chipset and mobo maker that prompts me to purchase a board, features are secondary reasons.

A board revision is altogether different. If a mobo maker updates the board from 6ph to 8ph power, or relocates some capacitors, or use different VRM's, it can vastly improve the stability and reliability of the board. But a board revision is still uses the same chipset and offers the same baseline functionality as previous revisions. And even then, the board revision may need a couple of BIOS updates to work out the kinks.
January 29, 2008 6:28:04 PM

MadHacker said:
Ethernet ports, only one works - enable other in bios or if it is RMA the board, problem fixed
IDE channel that doesn't work - enable in bios or if it is RMA the board, problem fixed
On-board raid that doesn't work - RMA
Motherboards that auto-detect memory at the wrong speeds = set them manualy...
Motherboards that auto-detect supported processors at the wrong speeds - flash bios, to get supported processors to work, or RMA it.

why would you bother to keep all this failing equipment and not RMA it?
if they are selling you sub $300 motherboards... they have a realy good RMA system. I have RMA'd my boards many times, some due to jut up and failing, some.. because they don't swim to well.
but I always get it RMA'd then the problem is gone.



Ethernet port, Raid and IDE channel don't work, period. Widely documented, and manufacturer won't issue RMA because a new one won't work either. As soon as they say ‘Chipset limitation”, they seem to be off the hook.

Not all motherboards allow you to set memory speed manually. Some do, others allow you to change it but fix mem speed to FSB.....which is fine if it picks memory correctly, but not if it doesn't. Example, mobo sets 800 memory at 533. You can choose between 2 ratios, but chances are you are either going to over clock the CPU or under clock the memory to less then optimum values. Yes, I knew over clocking was limited, but I assumed it would see the memory correctly. I researched before I bought, purchased SUPPORTED AND QUALIFIED parts to the manufacturers manual, but still got a mobo that didn’t work right. other mobo sees memory as 800? I did RMA that one yesterday.

I've researched the problems I am using for examples. There is no "fix" for any of them. Its product that was put to market without being fully tested. I've built hundreds of computers; these are not driver or bios issues. These are proven hardware incompatibility issues. When you buy a mobo with capability of 12 sata/pata devices and 2 types of on-board Raid, I'm sure not every combination of devices gets checked by every user. I run my stuff for a year and recycle my parts to friends and family. Some time you only find out later that features you didn’t use don’t work. I bought another board yesterday that has no reviews. It’s fine, I’ll test everything and send it back if it doesn’t work right. I found out the IDE channel didn't work in the process of building a file server. I had run all Sata, but now wanted to use up 4 old IDE drives for storage. I guess not without an IDE controller card

I don't want to bring brand into the mix, because all have boards with what seem to be more issues recently than in the past, and my issues are with 3 different brands. My question was of a more global in nature, as in: why do we put up with it? Sure I can RMA and wait 2-3 months for a replacement.....or stab in a NIC, sound card or storage controller card. But I'd rather have boards (premium) like we used to get 3-4 years ago when everything worked. If there is a hardware issue it should be dealt with promptly, as in: advance replacement or substitution vs. 2-3 months IMO.

Sounds like no one else is concerned, guess I'll just have to suck it up.



January 29, 2008 6:40:02 PM

chunkymonster said:
After that rant, why not spill the beans and tell us what maker and model of mobos you are talking about.

I can't help but wonder how many of your issues are PEBCAK.


By that statement I assume you don't build many computers?


chunkymonster said:
I learned a long time ago to not buy the first prodcution run of a mobo. Thanks for reminding me of why I wait until after there have been at least two BIOS updates before I buy a particular mobo.


You got me, I like to be the first kid on the block. Like I said, I don't mind BIOS updates as long as issues get resolved. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about product that has been out 1-2 years.


January 29, 2008 7:08:20 PM

MadHacker said:
some.. because they don't swim to well.

Absolutely priceless. I want a story to accompany such a wonderful quote.

But, OP, he's right, if it doesn't work the way they say it should (within the warantee period), RMA it! How hard it that.
If you're spending too much and not getting much out, stop the bleeding by adopting technology after it's been proven.
January 29, 2008 8:04:15 PM

If you a buying a $300 motherboard, it is almost guaranteed that it has the option for you to manually set the RAM speed, and the individual timings. You are probably not looking in the right spot.
January 29, 2008 8:17:21 PM

I bought a cheep $80 board for my wife... onboard video... doesn't overclock worth a darn...
but i didn't buy it for beeing able to set memory timming or any of that...
though overclocking a little bit would have been nice...
MB+onboard grafix = non overclocker..
but the wife is happy...
I find with PCs in general you get what you pay for... pay cheep, get cheep, Pay a high price... and you usualy get good product with good service.

OP. are any of those boards 680i boards... had to RMA one of those just because it wouldn't work well with quadcore. evga, I find the 6x0i series a little more finnicky...

as for on board raid... will never use it...
board fails you have to get same boardjust to get the data back...
I look forward to a board failing... Upgrades:) 
January 29, 2008 8:33:25 PM

1756159,6,58039 said:
I can't help but wonder how many of your issues are PEBCAK.
said:



Haha havent heard that one in a while.

RTFM is another good one to follow

if you do a search on this forum for one or all of those issues, you will find MANY people post threads about the same issues with a range of motherboards and the solution more often than not is there is something thats not set correctly.

I have built plenty of machine both for myself and for others and the only problems ive really ever had was something was set incorrectly and a google search (or similar) revealed the solution.

You should also research your hardware selections carefully, this has saved me from a few bad purchases.

there is a similar thread to this here http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/247486-30-nvidia-lack-790i that baggs out NVIDIA because of the shonky products when i believe most issues were PEBCAK or lack or research.
a b V Motherboard
January 29, 2008 8:45:43 PM

doubled said:
By that statement I assume you don't build many computers?

You should never ass-u-me. Maybe that's the issue, rather than PEBCAK.

If it is truly a "chipset limitation" then is the mobo maker really at fault?

If this is an issue you feel strongly enough about, then why not divulge the mobo models and makers to save other folks the same frustrations? At least tell what chipset you are having "limitations" with.

Seriously tho, you should list the mobos/chipsets your having issues with. Then you might actually get more of the response you're looking for. If not, I get the feeling you just want to vent and complain. And if that's the case, you will just have to suck it up.









January 29, 2008 9:07:35 PM

chunkymonster said:
You should never ass-u-me. Maybe that's the issue, rather than PEBCAK.

If it is truly a "chipset limitation" then is the mobo maker really at fault?


Yes, If they advertise a function on release that doesn't work, certainly. Like a Marvel IDE/Sata controller that doesn't work with a 975X Intel chipset on an Asus mobo. They send out Driver and Bios updates to pacify, but never resolve.

Nforce 4Sli, 680i......many, many documented issues with those chipsets and motherboards, even some starting on fire.

Abit, Gigabyte they all have lemons. Sure would be nice if Intel would license SLI.


chunkymonster said:
If this is an issue you feel strongly enough about, then why not divulge the mobo models and makers to save other folks the same frustrations? At least tell what chipset you are having "limitations" with.

Seriously tho, you should list the mobos/chipsets your having issues with. Then you might actually get more of the response you're looking for. If not, I get the feeling you just want to vent and complain. And if that's the case, you will just have to suck it up.


I think I got my answer. It sounds like I'm not forcing the issue enough. I guess I need to demand an "upgrade" rather than a repair. I'm going to ratchet up my efforts.

Thanks
January 29, 2008 9:10:27 PM

chookman said:
1756159,6,58039 said:
I can't help but wonder how many of your issues are PEBCAK.
said:



Haha havent heard that one in a while.

RTFM is another good one to follow

if you do a search on this forum for one or all of those issues, you will find MANY people post threads about the same issues with a range of motherboards and the solution more often than not is there is something thats not set correctly.

I have built plenty of machine both for myself and for others and the only problems ive really ever had was something was set incorrectly and a google search (or similar) revealed the solution.

You should also research your hardware selections carefully, this has saved me from a few bad purchases.

there is a similar thread to this here http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/247486-30-nvidia-lack-790i that baggs out NVIDIA because of the shonky products when i believe most issues were PEBCAK or lack or research.
said:
said:


You must have reading comprehension issues, because I've stated that the mobo manufactures have aknowledged the issues.
January 29, 2008 9:44:53 PM

doubled said:
You must have reading comprehension issues, because I've stated that the mobo manufactures have aknowledged the issues.


Would not this come under a lack of research on your behalf before buying the product? If people online have stated the issues with the particular brands, types and then the manufacturer says there is a problem they are aware of would you simply not shy away from that particular product?

Buying blindly is almost as bad as installing blindly.
January 29, 2008 10:18:20 PM

chookman said:
Would not this come under a lack of research on your behalf before buying the product? If people online have stated the issues with the particular brands, types and then the manufacturer says there is a problem they are aware of would you simply not shy away from that particular product?

Buying blindly is almost as bad as installing blindly.



I believe all the information is on the forums.... Now....
but perhaps not when the OP purchased them.
January 30, 2008 1:38:29 AM

i feel your pain! i recently purchased a MSI P35 Neo2-FR (because i fried my ga-p695 ds3 by adding a after market northbridge cooler,because i was bord,.) and when i built my system it wouldn't post for the life of me. it keep giving me memory,memory controller fault.(on the motherboard it has led that tell status of memory)i tried 3 different types of memory, 2 different type of video cards and 3 different cpus (2 diff q6600 and 1 e4300). so i finaly concluded it was DOA and rma'd it. newegg just finally received it after a week and a haf. i now have to wait 3-4 more days for them to process the rma and then finaly wait for them to ship it. this is my 1st doa motherboard and 1st msi motherboard too. im actually afraid of what im going to receive. wish me luck!!!!
January 30, 2008 2:30:40 AM

I buy a board often based on what I have used before.
Then based on the features of the board.
The time in market (how long has this board been out and selling).
People in forum discussions, and site reviews.
The CPU I want it to support.
Price.


Everyone here buys a motherboard based on it's features.
Never has anyone ever just walked into a computer parts store and said sell me a $200 motherboard.

If I get a motherboard thats having problems from the first day, it goes right back to the seller, if I can't get any help from the boards maker.

Of all the motherboards I have owned I like Tyan and Asus the most, to bad Tyan has gone to the server market.
January 30, 2008 2:51:31 AM

i have a solution!
stop buying motherboards.
sounds like you could use a factory built. i recomend 256mb of RAM (at least).
January 30, 2008 4:56:14 AM

Well, I for one have to agree with the OP.
I have been building computers for 12 years. If the ones here making the simplistic remarks would have been building them this long you would understand his point.
In the last 2 years the failure rate of new parts has been increasing. I have seen my RMAs in the last year, 2007 outnumber the "TOTAL" returns from the years 1996-2005.
For the remarks that mention "this is the way it is with cutting edge", get a grip. I was never aware I had to be the engineer for Abit, Asus, MSI, and ect. And in the years prior there were very few actual mistakes in a final production part. Now it seems common place. The last big one for the manufacturers was the “Bad Cap”. I don’t believe that one was actually on the motherboard manufacturers fault. But for them to continue using inferior caps till last year is an insult. If you actually think about it, the misguided engineers have had a real problem applying themselves to a quality motherboard since the LGA 775 socket was introduced. Since then your chances to actually purchase a newly released motherboard with confidence have became narrower.
Yes there have always been some incompatibility problems all along but that is not the situation we have now. What we are seeing now are very expensive parts that will not function out of the box. I could only suggest that the retailers post the return\failure rate of each product along with the reviews and specs given on their online marketing layout. That is a common and well known number to almost all larger retailers that purchase these parts for resale. How do I know? I worked in retail management for 10 years! I have seen these numbers on product lines prior to purchasing any large inventory for resale to my customers. Thank God I am no longer in that position where I would have to try and explain this situation to my customers now. I currently do this for myself only and am glad I got out of high volume retail while the quality of parts was still acceptable.

Good Luck with your next motherboard purchase!
January 30, 2008 5:39:48 AM

chookman said:
Would not this come under a lack of research on your behalf before buying the product? If people online have stated the issues with the particular brands, types and then the manufacturer says there is a problem they are aware of would you simply not shy away from that particular product?

Buying blindly is almost as bad as installing blindly.



You basicly said what was on my mind perfectly chookman, "lack of research".
January 30, 2008 6:05:08 AM

One or more of the original points have to be exaggerations, because it makes absolutely no sense otherwise.
January 30, 2008 6:12:36 AM

doubled said:
Ethernet port, Raid and IDE channel don't work, period. Widely documented, and manufacturer won't issue RMA because a new one won't work either. As soon as they say ‘Chipset limitation”, they seem to be off the hook.

Not all motherboards allow you to set memory speed manually. Some do, others allow you to change it but fix mem speed to FSB.....which is fine if it picks memory correctly, but not if it doesn't. Example, mobo sets 800 memory at 533. You can choose between 2 ratios, but chances are you are either going to over clock the CPU or under clock the memory to less then optimum values. Yes, I knew over clocking was limited, but I assumed it would see the memory correctly. I researched before I bought, purchased SUPPORTED AND QUALIFIED parts to the manufacturers manual, but still got a mobo that didn’t work right. other mobo sees memory as 800? I did RMA that one yesterday.

I've researched the problems I am using for examples. There is no "fix" for any of them. Its product that was put to market without being fully tested. I've built hundreds of computers; these are not driver or bios issues. These are proven hardware incompatibility issues. When you buy a mobo with capability of 12 sata/pata devices and 2 types of on-board Raid, I'm sure not every combination of devices gets checked by every user. I run my stuff for a year and recycle my parts to friends and family. Some time you only find out later that features you didn’t use don’t work. I bought another board yesterday that has no reviews. It’s fine, I’ll test everything and send it back if it doesn’t work right. I found out the IDE channel didn't work in the process of building a file server. I had run all Sata, but now wanted to use up 4 old IDE drives for storage. I guess not without an IDE controller card

I don't want to bring brand into the mix, because all have boards with what seem to be more issues recently than in the past, and my issues are with 3 different brands. My question was of a more global in nature, as in: why do we put up with it? Sure I can RMA and wait 2-3 months for a replacement.....or stab in a NIC, sound card or storage controller card. But I'd rather have boards (premium) like we used to get 3-4 years ago when everything worked. If there is a hardware issue it should be dealt with promptly, as in: advance replacement or substitution vs. 2-3 months IMO.

Sounds like no one else is concerned, guess I'll just have to suck it up.


Sounds like a bad run of luck to me. I started building machines casually when VESA local bus was new and professionally from the socket 370/A era. I now build machines almost daily. It is very rare that I get a bad mobo. I maybe RMA one every 4 months that was bad out of the box. The boards I'm replacing post purchase are generally Socket 478 Intel 845/865 with Prescotts (this combo is now known to often blow south bridges when a USB device is plugged in) These weren't made bad, it was a mistake by Intel. These chipsets were not originally designed for use with Prescott and apparently just updating the BIOS wasn't enough to make them completely compatible.
Other boards I replace regularly are 3+ years old and have bad caps in unusual ratings (or am too lazy that day to recap)

If I was to bitch about the crap being made these days it would start with PSUs and hard drives long before mobos. We replace those almost daily....

a b V Motherboard
January 30, 2008 7:25:45 AM

doubled said:
I currently have 4 $250+ motherboards that were or continue to be sold advertising features that don't work. I have ALL of these problems on the high end boards, plus a few on low end boards where I would expect issues.

2 Ethernet ports, only one works
IDE channel that doesn't work
On-board raid that doesn't work
Motherboards that auto-detect memory at the wrong speeds
Motherboards that auto-detect supported processors at the wrong speeds
Motherboard with CPU-Free that does have a CPU multiplier setting in the BIOS, that changes in the BIOS on an unlocked (EE) CPU, but does not actually affect processors speed.
Certain chipset brand that runs so hot it's impossible to run stable without additional fans.
Bios update to fix an issue, updated per manufacturers instructions followed to the letter, rendered mobo dead.

Everything I inquire about is a "chipset limitation"......yet there is no mention of it in revised manuals or advertisements.

The forums are full of angry people with parts that are no good, and online consumer reviews with 20+% DOA or failure within 2 weeks.....

Issues that get addressed with Bios updates are one thing. Issues that never get dealt with are another.

What responsibility do these manufacturers have to actually deliver what we pay for? There are motherboards out there selling for over $300 that have known issues. Are people suing? Are people working with manufactures to get replacement parts? Are people sending these boards back on RMA? I have not had any luck sending back parts on known issues because a replacement part will have the same issue. I am just expected to take it as it is. How do they write a manual and not actually check to make sure everything works? We wouldn't accept a car if a door didn't work, a transmission didn't shift or a start when we turned the key, why do we take it when its a motherboard?

Newegg has the best return policy I’ve ever come across, but even they are tired of getting motherboards back because they don’t work. They have changed their motherboard policy from 1 year to 30 days because it’s costing them so much money.

I have a failed part in for RMA right now. I called yesterday and was told at least 6 more weeks, fin addition to the 4 weeks I’ve been waiting, or I can substitute a part of 1/3 value today. I think I-we deserve better. Am I just expecting too much?


ROFLMAO one word bro - NOOB. Some people should just stay away from computers
If your buying ASUS or Gigabyte, with Intel chipsets for Intel based systems you should have no issues or no wide spread issues, if you buy rubbish like ECS, Elitegroup, PCChips, MSI etc then expect things like that.

Iv sold and build thousands of computers based on the cheapest motherboard i can get my hand on - ASUS P5GC-MX/1333 - only had one come back, cause some idiot tried to work on it and chipped the motherboard - i dont use anti-static protection (hello, everything is earthed in the place anyhow), and this is Brisbane, Australia where its raining and dry and hot and cold, the weather kills things quick usually.
January 30, 2008 1:09:01 PM

apache_lives said:
ROFLMAO one word bro - NOOB. Some people should just stay away from computers
If your buying ASUS or Gigabyte, with Intel chipsets for Intel based systems you should have no issues or no wide spread issues, if you buy rubbish like ECS, Elitegroup, PCChips, MSI etc then expect things like that.

Iv sold and build thousands of computers based on the cheapest motherboard i can get my hand on - ASUS P5GC-MX/1333 - only had one come back, cause some idiot tried to work on it and chipped the motherboard - i dont use anti-static protection (hello, everything is earthed in the place anyhow), and this is Brisbane, Australia where its raining and dry and hot and cold, the weather kills things quick usually.



that isn't by far the cheapest...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Foxconn 661GX7MJ-H LGA 775 SiS 661GX Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $32.99

your asus board you are using... costs almost 2wice as much...
so you are using nice boards.. not cheep ones...

there are certain boards I will not buy due to all the problems I have heard...(680i) perhaps they have fixed them now with bios revisions.... duno havn't looked further
very skeptical about the new 780i boards coming out...
January 30, 2008 2:51:12 PM

chookman said:
Would not this come under a lack of research on your behalf before buying the product? If people online have stated the issues with the particular brands, types and then the manufacturer says there is a problem they are aware of would you simply not shy away from that particular product?

Buying blindly is almost as bad as installing blindly.



Hmm. When is the last time you called tech support at any mobo manufacturer and asked them for what bugs they planned to release in their motherboards? Which bugs would be fixed with bios updates and which were going to be discovered to be "chipset limitations?"

Does Toyota, Ford, and Mercedes plan recalls? Occasionally things just don't work like they are supposed to, even when you purchase from a reputable source. Cheap or expensive; all kinds of products have issues. I sincerely hope your know it all smart azz gets a dose real soon ;) 
January 30, 2008 2:58:27 PM

bobbknight said:
I buy a board often based on what I have used before.
Then based on the features of the board.
The time in market (how long has this board been out and selling).
People in forum discussions, and site reviews.
The CPU I want it to support.
Price.


Everyone here buys a motherboard based on it's features.
Never has anyone ever just walked into a computer parts store and said sell me a $200 motherboard.

If I get a motherboard thats having problems from the first day, it goes right back to the seller, if I can't get any help from the boards maker.

Of all the motherboards I have owned I like Tyan and Asus the most, to bad Tyan has gone to the server market.


Yep, If they would just make the Asus P4C800E Deluxe for core 2 processors, with PCIe and 1600FSB i'd be ahppy camper.

You are correct, I don't buy on price, I buy on features, reviews, reputation and lastly price.
January 30, 2008 3:03:15 PM

well sometimes you want a board with certain features...
but once you go down through the list... the options get limited...
myself i have a choice of 1 board that I know of that would meet my specs exactly... but that is rambleings for another thread...
January 30, 2008 3:28:18 PM

apache_lives said:
ROFLMAO one word bro - NOOB. Some people should just stay away from computers
If your buying ASUS or Gigabyte, with Intel chipsets for Intel based systems you should have no issues or no wide spread issues, if you buy rubbish like ECS, Elitegroup, PCChips, MSI etc then expect things like that.

Iv sold and build thousands of computers based on the cheapest motherboard i can get my hand on - ASUS P5GC-MX/1333 - only had one come back, cause some idiot tried to work on it and chipped the motherboard - i dont use anti-static protection (hello, everything is earthed in the place anyhow), and this is Brisbane, Australia where its raining and dry and hot and cold, the weather kills things quick usually.


Ahh, but you are the NOOB, and clueless. Check out ASUS (your first mention) forums for any current feature rich motherboard, especially the ones with Nvidia chipsets. No wide spread problems ehh? You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

The forums for your board show that people are having issues with V-Core too high and non adjustable which results in "overclocking failed" messages on boot.

Couple thousand computers using a mobo that's been out only a few months? You are so full of crap I can smell you from the good old US of A! Thanks for the laugh!

You build the same computer over and over with a motherboard that probably is a retail version of an OEM board for HP, Gateway or E Machines. They don't stand for crappy product. They would sue. You do the same thing over and over and it always works, with the same part. Good for you. That's not what this post is about.

Fortunately, I'm not limited to purchasing my parts on a food stamp budget. If I wanted a POS computer like you build I’d just order a Dell.
January 30, 2008 3:34:58 PM

just thinking of it since you brought it up...
are there any OEM manufactures that use 680i chipset? sorry for going off topic :pt1cable: 
a b V Motherboard
January 30, 2008 3:49:06 PM

A friend of mine got a a-bit 680i board.... BAD idea. that thing has been nothing but trouble, bios revisions get worse and worse. They simply cause more problems. Performance is barely acceptable. finally get this, you know something's wrong when in their software they mis-spell their own brand name. It is now a-bti.
a c 120 V Motherboard
January 30, 2008 3:49:52 PM

Quote:
ROFLMAO one word bro - NOOB. Some people should just stay away from computers
If your buying ASUS or Gigabyte, with Intel chipsets for Intel based systems you should have no issues or no wide spread issues, if you buy rubbish like ECS, Elitegroup, PCChips, MSI etc then expect things like that.

ECS is Elitegroup and PCchip is OWNED by Elitegroup. Also my ECS K7S5A was seriously the BEST board i ever bought.....Worked with any ram i tried it with ran any pci card i placed it in. It was also extremely stable...

Years later i got my Asus K8V SE.... certain PCI cards did not work. and the audio randomly skipped. Turned out that a bios update to fix one problem made several others.... a roll back did fix it...

My P5W DH did not overclock well....early revision.....What i did like was that all fans could be controlled. It was quiet. Dual lan a fair amount of sata ports and driverless raid(a silicon image chip handled this)

Gigabyte P35 DS3r. Has exactly the features i want and was a good price....

So in the end you DO get what you pay for(even if its features you never use)....

The ram issue is not a board problem, but a problem of with the way SPD timings are written on the chip. To avoid problems most manufacturers set lower timings since most new ram needs more voltage to get its spec'd timings. This allows you to manually set it. Tight timings caused many problems in the past where the board would say....ohh 800 @ 4,4,4,12 then not post because it was only giving the 1.8 volts from the JEDIC specs as opposed to the 2.1 the ram wants.

For the IDE thing. Some boards have IDE controllers that only support ATA and not ATAPI(Jmicron ones should see CD/DVD's fine....so it its one of those not working...RMA it). That would stop a CD drive from working. Solution, use SATA

To make raid work you have to set it in the bios, then enter the raid setup on the next boot(CTRL + I). If it does not work like that, RMA
January 30, 2008 4:27:18 PM

Quote:
Quote:
a word: if they are selling you a $300 mobo, they saw you coming a mile away.
they call it the bleeding edge for a reason.


I agree 100%, I couldn't have said it better myself.
I cant remember the last time I had a mobo I wasnt happy with, honestly. I have never paid more than $125 for a mobo. Im still using an old S3 P965 Rev. 1 that I bought 17months ago for $100. It still does everything I need, overclocks very well, and is upgradeable to quad core. I never buy a mobo that just came out either.



Thank you for your opinion.

If you have had that board for 17 months, it was a new release.

I like Gigabyte boards too. I have used a number of them in budget builds. But that one doesn’t quite have all the features I am looking for. A couple things I do know about that particular board is that for some people, it too suffers from defaulting to the wrong memory speed. It too uses FSB to Memory speed multipliers, and does not appear to allow you to adjust memory timings…..unless I missed something. I wouldn’t call that a good over clocking motherboard. There also seems to be a large number of people reporting that they cannot get the Ethernet and/or sound to work. Roughly 20% of the new egg reviews are not good on this motherboard. I’m not saying that’s representative or proof of anything, but to me, it shows that it’s possible that it also has some quality issues.

a c 120 V Motherboard
January 30, 2008 4:36:42 PM

For most gigabyte boards the overclocking and ram timings are hidden.....

Press CTRL+F1 then go look under MIT, there should be lots of extra options now...
January 30, 2008 4:38:32 PM

nukemaster said:
Quote:
ROFLMAO one word bro - NOOB. Some people should just stay away from computers
If your buying ASUS or Gigabyte, with Intel chipsets for Intel based systems you should have no issues or no wide spread issues, if you buy rubbish like ECS, Elitegroup, PCChips, MSI etc then expect things like that.

ECS is Elitegroup and PCchip is OWNED by Elitegroup. Also my ECS K7S5A was seriously the BEST board i ever bought.....Worked with any ram i tried it with ran any pci card i placed it in. It was also extremely stable...

Years later i got my Asus K8V SE.... certain PCI cards did not work. and the audio randomly skipped. Turned out that a bios update to fix one problem made several others.... a roll back did fix it...

My P5W DH did not overclock well....early revision.....What i did like was that all fans could be controlled. It was quiet. Dual lan a fair amount of sata ports and driverless raid(a silicon image chip handled this)

Gigabyte P35 DS3r. Has exactly the features i want and was a good price....

So in the end you DO get what you pay for(even if its features you never use)....

The ram issue is not a board problem, but a problem of with the way SPD timings are written on the chip. To avoid problems most manufacturers set lower timings since most new ram needs more voltage to get its spec'd timings. This allows you to manually set it. Tight timings caused many problems in the past where the board would say....ohh 800 @ 4,4,4,12 then not post because it was only giving the 1.8 volts from the JEDIC specs as opposed to the 2.1 the ram wants.

For the IDE thing. Some boards have IDE controllers that only support ATA and not ATAPI(Jmicron ones should see CD/DVD's fine....so it its one of those not working...RMA it). That would stop a CD drive from working. Solution, use SATA

To make raid work you have to set it in the bios, then enter the raid setup on the next boot(CTRL + I). If it does not work like that, RMA


The RAM Speed is a board problem per gigabyte's tech support, and timings can't be manually set on that Gigabyte board, so 800 modules run at 533.

You are correct about the IDE controller not working with optical drives. I'm trying to use old IDE hard drives in a file server. Asus tech support admits it doesn't work.

Raid: Asus tech support admits it doesn't work. No bios setting or version, driver, F or Control key can make it work. It's not compatible with the Nvidia chipset.
January 30, 2008 4:41:31 PM

nukemaster said:
For most gigabyte boards the overclocking and ram timings are hidden.....

Press CTRL+F1 then go look under MIT, there should be lots of extra options now...


Yeah, I know. But not on the one I returned. Not sure about that 965 board, I've never had one of those. I do know it's not in the manual.
a c 120 V Motherboard
January 30, 2008 4:41:34 PM

Quote:
Raid: Asus tech support admits it doesn't work. No bios setting or version, driver, F or Control key can make it work. It's not compatible with the Nvidia chipset.

well thats sucks......
a b V Motherboard
January 30, 2008 4:58:31 PM

doubled said:


Motherboards that auto-detect memory at the wrong speeds
Motherboards that auto-detect supported processors at the wrong speeds
Motherboard with CPU-Free that does have a CPU multiplier setting in the BIOS, that changes in the BIOS on an unlocked (EE) CPU, but does not actually affect processors speed.
Certain chipset brand that runs so hot it's impossible to run stable without additional fans.
Bios update to fix an issue, updated per manufacturers instructions followed to the letter, rendered mobo dead.


I didn't have time to ready every response, but I really have to say, eh, DUH?

Motherboards detect memory at the right speed: It's the memory itself that's programed for the wrong speed. This is a workaround for memory that might not boot at default voltage, it's a workaround the memory company, not the motherboard manfacturer, puts in place.

Motherboards detecting the wrong FSB is usually due to a BIOS that was released before the new bus speed was. I have several P965 motherboards that detect FSB-1333 even though the chipset was only meant to support 800 and 1066, and to get the new speed to be automatically detected you need a BIOS update. Same goes for FSB-1600 on P35 and most X38 motherboards.

As for changing speed in windows via an overclocking program, anyone who's willing to pay $300 for a board should also be able to figure out how to overclock in BIOS. These parts are meant for wealthy enthusists, the overclocking programs never get finished before a new chipset deverts the manufacturer's attention away from the board you already own.

Most boards are designed to operate without adding a fan...by using the CPU fan. This assumes your CPU fan blows downward. Your fan doesn't? Then you probably bought an enthusiast-level cooler, and as an enthusiast you should be able to figure out a workaround.

The only real problem I see in the section I quoted is the BIOS update issue: Manufacturers really need to warn users that Windows utilities for BIOS are dangerous.

The parts I didn't copy could be due to a damaged board.
January 31, 2008 7:21:39 PM

Most consider ECS boards bottom of the barrel. I love them. They are the best boards for budget builds. The only one I have ever had to fail (after 1 year) was replace under warranty very quickly. I cannot complain about ECS boards. They are built for a certain crowd and serve that crowd well. If you want a super overclocking board with tons of features, look elsewhere.

Basically, research the motherboard you are buying. Some of you guys have endless problems. I build at least 3 computers per month and rarely encounter any issues.
a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2008 7:56:33 PM

I've replaced dozens of ECS or PC-Chips boards with blown capacitors. It seems the warranty is always a few days too short.
a c 120 V Motherboard
January 31, 2008 8:00:01 PM

maybe i was lucky....or maybe allot of budget systems have crappy ventilation and psu's leading to this....

I do have an A-Open board will all kinds of leaking caps....everything works but USB(but with a duron 1000 in it...well there is not much it can do anyway...)....
a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2008 8:09:25 PM

Nah, these were bad caps from one of the earliest known fake brands, and they continued to use them for quite a while after these supposedly dissapeared from the market.

Lots of companies had bad caps, but most quit using them when the supply supposedly ran out. A couple companies seemed to have continued to source the bad parts for years after these were "no longer available", including ECS/PC-Chips and Aopen.

Abit got hammered on the worst, but they were among the first to respond to reports of a market flood of bad caps. MSI continued to use bad caps for some time after initial reports surfaced, but only on OEM Gateway, IBM, and Dell boards. It seems the companies buying these boards were only offering 1-year warranties and didn't care about the bad caps so long as the boards were cheap enough! Dell relented.

Notice I'm only speaking of the worst of the "bad caps". Several "better" disreputable brands are found in Asus and Soyo boards, for example.
a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2008 8:27:01 PM

Ah, MrsBytch, I just looked into the AB9-Pro for someone: Officially it supported only 800 and 1066 FSB, but 1333 was added in a later BIOS revision. That's FSB1333 detection, "automatically overclocking" the chipset. The board was good for around 500MHz (FSB-2000) and can be found for under $100. If you instal a 65nm Core 2 Duo with FSB1333 on the old BIOS, it will detect at a slower FSB until you update the BIOS, so at least it's still bootable/updatable using the "wrong" FSB processor.
January 31, 2008 8:39:39 PM

nukemaster said:
maybe i was lucky....or maybe allot of budget systems have crappy ventilation and psu's leading to this....

I do have an A-Open board will all kinds of leaking caps....everything works but USB(but with a duron 1000 in it...well there is not much it can do anyway...)....

Go to Digikey.com and order some caps. As long as you have a soldering iron and a hand steadier than a Vietnam vet, you'll no longer need to worry about your computer's slow death.

I fixed a Shuttle FV25 MB (the original S370 XPC computer) a year and a half ago with $8 in parts from digikey and it's still running strong as a backup with a 1.4 P3 Celeron (OC'd to 1.62Ghz - now that's power :kaola:  )
a b V Motherboard
January 31, 2008 9:24:54 PM

I even know a way to do the repair with no added solder and no special tools, just a $3 iron. One leg at a time. Leave the solder pool in the hole. Heat the solder pool to insert the new cap one leg at a time.

Over 50% of my repairs were possible with no added solder using this method. OK, so maybe you should buy a small spool of solder just in case :p 
a c 120 V Motherboard
January 31, 2008 9:37:59 PM

I have all that stuff anyway.
If i get board some day...instead of overclocking stuff maybe i will fix that board....then overclock it :) 
!