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AMD Delays High-End Phenoms, Introduces Low Power Version

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January 9, 2008 11:36:11 PM

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2247404,00.a...

Quote:

AMD was eager to give us a look at their "firing on all cylinders" graphics roadmap at CES—they're on the verge of shipping lower-end Radeon HD 3000 series products and the Radeon HD 3870 X2 (the dual-chip card we've mentioned before). But none of that is really news, and the details are under wraps until they get closer to the products' launches.

How about this, though: Remember how the Phenom only shipped at a disappointing 2.2- and 2.3-GHz, with the Phenom 9700 and 9900 (2.4 and 2.6 GHz) promised for the first quarter of this year? Well, in what looks to be a non-stop string of disappointing news for AMD fans, these two chips have now been pushed back to second quarter.

AMD tells us the delay isn't due to manufacturing problems, but instead because their OEM vendors have requested a low-power version. So AMD will soon release a new model, the Phenom 9100E, running at a conservative 1.8 GHz and drawing at most 65W of power.

Obviously the company tried to put a positive spin on things, but we can't help but think that if they really could produce Phenoms at the right clock speeds in the right quantities, they would have no problem satisfying the markets for both the 2.4/2.6 GHz chips as well as a new 1.8 GHz model. One bit of good news: the "B3" stepping of the Phenom CPU, which fixes the much talked-about TLB errata, is back from the fabs and looking good. Also, the triple-core and dual-core chips appear to be on track.


Who wants to bet Phenom will be launched a year after Barcelona's launch?
January 9, 2008 11:41:46 PM

Nope, not taking that bet. I think they will successfully launch their 9700 and 9900 in Q2.
January 9, 2008 11:45:17 PM

pausert20 said:
Nope, not taking that bet. I think they will successfully launch their 9700 and 9900 in Q2.


Of what year?
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January 10, 2008 12:08:19 AM

Not last year.
January 10, 2008 1:09:27 AM

turpit said:
Of what year?


Well, this year of course. :p 
January 10, 2008 1:17:20 AM

Yep, power-saving cpus. We really need them.

I mean why bother with the high-end cpus? Oh wait, we have Intel for that. And the power-savings ones.

I bet it'll be pushed to Q3...at the earliest.
a b à CPUs
January 10, 2008 1:24:42 AM

Wake me up when it's 2008 on AMDs calendar :sleep: 
January 10, 2008 1:44:09 AM

You'll be dead by then!
January 10, 2008 1:49:25 AM

all I want to see is B3. How much time could a bunch of engineers take to solve that kind of bug? it couldn't take forever, they solved it, now the B3 X3s and X2s are going to be on stores in the next few months -hopefully-.

I wonder if the low power version and the B3 could be used on the rest of non-phenom-ready mobos.
Also, how good can be the low power version at OC.
Hopefully we could see a multitasking test soon. Lets say Winrar+AVG scanning+3dmark06+lame or something like that, using a B3 and 4 DDR2 1066 modules.

Maybe after all, phenom sucks on everything I mentioned. I hope it has at least an atractive price...
January 10, 2008 1:51:40 AM

as i said when i was drunk off my ass on new years eve...to hell with 2008, lets just skip to 2009.
January 10, 2008 2:03:15 AM

A low power 1.8 GHz Quad. The answer to a question nobody asked.

I bet theres blood on the floor of AMD enginering. No other posible excuse.
January 10, 2008 2:17:39 AM

OlSkoolChopper said:
A low power 1.8 GHz Quad. The answer to a question nobody asked.

Well, that would make it a perfect match for Microsoft's Home Server.
January 10, 2008 2:18:11 AM

rodney_ws said:
Well, that would make it a perfect match for Microsoft's Home Server.


Or Microsoft Bob. :bounce: 
January 10, 2008 2:25:47 AM

OlSkoolChopper said:
Or Microsoft Bob. :bounce: 


Ouch...thats hurts. >;o)
January 10, 2008 2:52:46 AM

asgallant said:
Ouch...thats hurts. >;o)


What? Did you just sit on Clippy? :lol: 
January 10, 2008 8:25:58 AM

Hmmm... apparently, the reason for pushing back was still due to TLB errata.

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?messa...

Quote:

It was known already that the given rhythm versions with 2.4 and 2.6 GHz of Phenom were pushed back in the second quarter. We could confirm yesterday that the 9650 and 9550, version "débugguées" of first Phenom (see our article) are also pushed back in the second quarter. AMD indeed received its first chips using the stepping B3 (early silicon), the bug is still not corrected. A new "spin" is thus necessary, which can push back Phenom in May.
January 10, 2008 8:31:04 AM

thefumigator said:
all I want to see is B3. How much time could a bunch of engineers take to solve that kind of bug? it couldn't take forever, they solved it, now the B3 X3s and X2s are going to be on stores in the next few months -hopefully-.

I wonder if the low power version and the B3 could be used on the rest of non-phenom-ready mobos.
Also, how good can be the low power version at OC.
Hopefully we could see a multitasking test soon. Lets say Winrar+AVG scanning+3dmark06+lame or something like that, using a B3 and 4 DDR2 1066 modules.

Maybe after all, phenom sucks on everything I mentioned. I hope it has at least an atractive price...


Checked the (u.k) price yesterday, theres 20 quid between the phenom 2.3ghz and the q6600. www.scan.co.uk
January 10, 2008 9:18:04 AM

What OEM wants a 1.8 gigahertz 65 watt Phenom? All I want is a B3 stepping 65 watt 45nm Phenom running at 2.4 gigahertz, and I want it by March 31, 2008. That's as long as I'll wait for Phenom.

If worse comes to worse, I'll just upgrade to HD 3850's and won't even buy another dual core AMD that will only be a little bit faster than my X2 4600+. I can't see buying if they don't have what I'd expected them to have by now. Maybe the triple cores will be worth it, but I'm starting to have doubts.

I still won't buy Intel, as all I'd planned is to upgrade the processors on my ASUS 690G motherboards. Maybe I'll just wait for Swift in 2009? What a way for a company to treat a fan, and I've been an AMD fan ever since I ditched Netburst when Intel came out with their lousy Prescotts.
January 10, 2008 9:19:15 AM

Considering I'm am generally very negative about Phenom and I still am but there might be a positive to this.

Do I believe they can make faster chips?No!

But I am inclined to believe that oems want an EE version with slower clocks. Now if AMD can get oems to stick one of these in every low end pc they sell AMD can make a fortune. Especially if they can price it to compete with E2xxx and E4xxxx cpu's. The average consumer won't understand which is faster. They will see slightly slower clocked quad vs higher clocked dual. They will ask the shop assistant who will tell them the quad is better because he has no clue anyway. AMD can make lots of money to develop better high end cpu's. Or in its current case stay alive.
January 10, 2008 9:21:00 AM

What do you think they will do with all of their Errataed Proccesors that are already produced?

REDUCE CLOCK RATES AND DISABLE stuff so it doesnt fail

you got instant LOW power quad cores for oem to quickly resell and make some profit out of them so then they can launch the fixed ones , i woudl buy one of these for cheap entriline systems
January 10, 2008 9:23:23 AM

spoonboy said:
Checked the (u.k) price yesterday, theres 20 quid between the phenom 2.3ghz and the q6600. www.scan.co.uk


I checked the price on www.overclockers.co.uk they have Phenom 9600 only £4 cheaper than a Q6600. They also have the 9600 BE which cost an extra £12. So much for being the same price as the ordinary one.
January 10, 2008 9:43:28 AM

A slower clocked Phenom really had me down. I saw no use for it, hence my negative post above. AMD really must be aiming for the Emachines budget OEM market with this.

Perhaps it's because of the Wolfdale preview at Xbit Labs?:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/intel-wolf...

Though a Phenom single core beats an X2 core by 17% or so, unless AMD can get 45nm processors out soon, based on B3 Phenom cores, they're really going to be in trouble in the second quarter of 2008.
January 10, 2008 10:00:49 AM

lol! my mates got an eMachines pc, it is utter cack lol.
January 10, 2008 10:50:10 AM

the Compaq division of HP and small boutique venders like iBuyPower which make desktops aimed at college students with weaker discrete graphics cards would benefit a lot from a lower clocked EE version of a phenom.

the buyers of this market tend to not know much about what they are doing, and tend to open way too many applications at once for what there computer can handle.

many people i am around everyday who know very little about even operating windows but need to use photoshop will try to wriet a paper, run photoshop, be on the internet and stream video while operating vista on 1gig of 667MHz ram...these kinds of people will see a performance gain compared to all dual cores in their price range while stupidly multitasking like this on their weaker systems.

i am however skeptical that the B3 fix is ready or else why not make both? But i do think this is a good strategy if AMD can set the price right, i will still be waiting until the faster phenoms come out, hopefully an FX version comes out by Q2 2009 so AMD can compete at the high end once again...

long live competition!
January 10, 2008 10:59:15 AM

AMD will not be out of the cpu business, yes their stocks are down, however recently we have seen companies investing in AMD and they have been in this situation before with the original athlon xp series...in a year or two AMD will be up to speed and things will repeat again in another 5-6 years
January 10, 2008 11:11:05 AM

gpippas said:
I checked the price on www.overclockers.co.uk they have Phenom 9600 only £4 cheaper than a Q6600. They also have the 9600 BE which cost an extra £12. So much for being the same price as the ordinary one.


mmm where I said "I hope it has at least an atractive price... "
I should have said "I hope the new releases have an atractive price... " (lower than actual price)
January 10, 2008 11:30:32 AM

What I can't understand is why AMD fans are still sticking with AMD after so many failures? Don't you want to get that new system now and not months from now? If it came time to build my next new system and AMD was clearly ahead in the CPU market performance wise, I'd jump on over in a heartbeat! I have friends that have put off building that new system for almost a year now because they won't buy what is better Intel. Instead they suffer performance wise in their online gaming. :heink: 
January 10, 2008 11:37:19 AM

Quote:
The problem is recources. They have taken so many engineers off the cpu developement and moved them to other projects. This is the best thing for AMD to do, so they can get other product out and bring in profit, however it doesnt bode well for their cpu sales. We may see AMD leaving the cpu business in the next year, which will seriously suck for all of us.


How does anyone know any of this? about the cpu engineers i mean. Surely its just like a team of like a hundred guys all doing meticulous pain-staking work that unfortunatley just takes a very long time. Maybe theres more to this delay than we might know, like improving the process or minor redesign in addition to that needed to fix the tlb. I cant for the life of me think that the tlb error is the absolute only thing stopping phenoms coming out sooner, they must be up to something else.
January 10, 2008 12:37:46 PM

systemlord said:
What I can't understand is why AMD fans are still sticking with AMD after so many failures? Don't you want to get that new system now and not months from now? If it came time to build my next new system and AMD was clearly ahead in the CPU market performance wise, I'd jump on over in a heartbeat! I have friends that have put off building that new system for almost a year now because they won't buy what is better Intel. Instead they suffer performance wise in their online gaming. :heink: 


I personally can't upgrade my whole system, but if I could get the B3 X4 for lets say 150$ or less, I wouldn't mind selling my X2 and get the X4. Hopefully it doesn't suck that bad on video encoding... But yes, buying a Q6600 or a yorkie would be much better, but also more expensive, I will need to change my mobo and my AGP video card. Also, I don't overclock... seems I'm a bit stuck.


January 10, 2008 12:39:33 PM

gpippas said:
Considering I'm am generally very negative about Phenom and I still am but there might be a positive to this.

Do I believe they can make faster chips?No!

But I am inclined to believe that oems want an EE version with slower clocks. Now if AMD can get oems to stick one of these in every low end pc they sell AMD can make a fortune. Especially if they can price it to compete with E2xxx and E4xxxx cpu's. The average consumer won't understand which is faster. They will see slightly slower clocked quad vs higher clocked dual. They will ask the shop assistant who will tell them the quad is better because he has no clue anyway. AMD can make lots of money to develop better high end cpu's. Or in its current case stay alive.

Beautiful point.MrsBych,also made a valid point inregarding to whats going on with AMD.Notice how at CES AMD has so many new stuff that they are pushing including the R680 whic seemed to be a monster.Phenom/Barcy are having issues,no not talking about the TLb,but the clocks and for that we might not see these cpu for a while.The gpu department is being pushed real hard because thats where they can find money to get them out the hole they are in and for Nvidia to give AMD a 2weeks headstart ,I think its working.I have a htpc that I can use AMD Phenom EE in .Waiting on the RS700 chip for my gaming upgrade
January 10, 2008 12:45:03 PM

spoonboy said:
I cant for the life of me think that the tlb error is the absolute only thing stopping phenoms coming out sooner, they must be up to something else.



Maybe you are right and AMD is buying time with small releases til the big hit... don't know how many surprises had AMD in the past but there were some. Their latest video card was already spoted tho... like 8500~9000 3dmarks06 at 2550x1600 resolution.
January 10, 2008 2:23:40 PM

well I didnt mean a big new storming phenom just meant they might be modifying the design and the process more than just fixing the tlb. Given the length of time its taking to get new phenoms out there must be some factor x noone knows about.
January 10, 2008 2:51:54 PM

spoonboy said:
well I didnt mean a big new storming phenom just meant they might be modifying the design and the process more than just fixing the tlb. Given the length of time its taking to get new phenoms out there must be some factor x noone knows about.


Facotr X: Gross incompatence from the boardroom on down to the mail room.
January 10, 2008 3:05:06 PM

now on sale: facotr X: Gross incompatence

January 10, 2008 3:10:33 PM

Quote:
The problem is recources. They have taken so many engineers off the cpu developement and moved them to other projects. This is the best thing for AMD to do, so they can get other product out and bring in profit, however it doesnt bode well for their cpu sales. We may see AMD leaving the cpu business in the next year, which will seriously suck for all of us.


Isn't this sad? After half a year of the debut of AMD's newest generation architecture, AMD still don't have the performance advantage, or any competitive advantage. And now they're moving engineers away from the CPU sectors to work in some other fields.
January 10, 2008 3:10:59 PM

spoonboy said:
well I didnt mean a big new storming phenom just meant they might be modifying the design and the process more than just fixing the tlb. Given the length of time its taking to get new phenoms out there must be some factor x noone knows about.


It is highly likely.

There were probably a few things that the hardware people wanted to get done before release... but these things got pushed back so that the release could be officially completed on time. Now with this problem they will take the time to fix the known issues, fix a few issues we don't know about, and also probably finish up a few of the things that got pushed back.

This delay will really bend some people out of shape. But if they DO go ahead and take the time and then release a new stepping in April that benchmarks a lot better... that would be a good business decision. (And it gives motherboard makers time to do what they should already have done.)
January 10, 2008 3:16:52 PM

Your right about that, the whole thing seemed half-baked at review time. The engineers might have a whole shopping list of things they would like to have done and now can do. Roll on B3 stepping: turbo edition.
January 10, 2008 3:26:37 PM

spoonboy said:
Your right about that, the whole thing seemed half-baked at review time. The engineers might have a whole shopping list of things they would like to have done and now can do. Roll on B3 stepping: turbo edition.


Even if we are not correct in this... and they didn't have anything on the drawing board that should have been done before release... you can BET they will now take the opportunity that has presented itself.

If they DO NOT take this opportunity to do more than just fix the TLB errata... they need to all be unemployed.
January 10, 2008 3:29:17 PM

I don't really care if AMD releases some low power Phenoms for the laptop market. If they can find a way to sell some chips and make some money, then good.

I do wonder if the Phenom can be fixed at all as far as being a high performance, high clocking cpu, but maybe it can. But if it can at least get the TLB errata fixed and take a place as an average performance, average clocking cpu, there should be a willing market for them. I don't think I'd put one in my gaming machine, but I might put one in my office machine where speed doesn't count as much.
January 10, 2008 3:40:30 PM

sailer said:
I don't really care if AMD releases some low power Phenoms for the laptop market. If they can find a way to sell some chips and make some money, then good.

I do wonder if the Phenom can be fixed at all as far as being a high performance, high clocking cpu, but maybe it can. But if it can at least get the TLB errata fixed and take a place as an average performance, average clocking cpu, there should be a willing market for them. I don't think I'd put one in my gaming machine, but I might put one in my office machine where speed doesn't count as much.


I have no basis for my opinion... but I'd bet they have something up their sleeve.

It is possible they had the Phenom working and giving them extremely wonderful benchmarks... then right before the last release of the silicon they made a change that seemed logical... seemed like a good idea... and ended up messing up their speed.

When I first read that they had postponed and stopped shipping "because of the TLB" errata... I wondered to myself what OTHER problem or issue they knew about; I don't believe management would have allowed the delay due to JUST the TLB errata.

This hypothetical situation would explain it. It is easier to say "Oops we found an errata that we need to fix. Please wait" rather than "Oops we made a change that hosed our speed up at the last minute... please wait."

(They look bad either way. But one way makes them look like they are fessing up to a problem that needs correction. Admirable. The other way announement would not gain them any confidence.)

EDIT: If they release a 1.8Ghz Phenom that uses low power... and you can overclock it to 2.8-3.0Ghz on air just by using more power... they will save face. If they can provide a chip like that and it is more efficient than competing chips... they will not only save face... they will walk on water.
a b à CPUs
January 10, 2008 3:46:17 PM



Theres one exasparating question to the soul, life and Universe....


Wheres Thunderman when AMD needs him
Baron Matrix has not appeared of late either......


We need to let him be pointed out to the fact that AMD "oops, i think i did it again" Spears is in crisis.......

Poor AMD
January 10, 2008 4:00:26 PM

keithlm said:
When I first read that they had postponed and stopped shipping "because of the TLB" errata... I wondered to myself what OTHER problem or issue they knew about; I don't believe management would have allowed the delay due to JUST the TLB errata.

This hypothetical situation would explain it. It is easier to say "Oops we found an errata that we need to fix. Please wait" rather than "Oops we made a change that hosed our speed up at the last minute... please wait."


Several of us have wondered about just this, that there is something far more seriously wrong than the errata problem. If the errata problem was never or very rarely found in real use, and it didn't do anything more than the occasional BSOD or similar, then it makes little sense to stop shipment of Barcelona and not release higher clocking versions of Barcelona and Phenom. Of course, none of us have any proof of that at present. The release of the Black Edition of Phenom is a convenient way of selling chips without a guarentee of performance, that is, people who buy them want to overclock, and AMD can sit back and rightfully say that they are not responsible for overclock failures. Also, by selling the BE without a heatsink, AMD can avoid warrenty issues with anyone who fries the chip.

Another issue at hand has been the problem with the 790 motherboard and the SB600 south bridge, which has been shown to have problems. A delay with Phenom gives time to get better mobos out that use a SB700 south bridge.

But, like most of the Barcelona/Phenom trouble, we have far more speculation than real information. That leaves everyone in a limbo like situation. We know something is wrong, but not what, and not very many people or business want to gamble with using problem chips and motherboards.
January 10, 2008 4:11:21 PM

sailer said:
We know something is wrong, but not what, and not very many people or business want to gamble with using problem chips and motherboards.


I can picture the AMD managers in a meeting.

Manager1: "Guys we screwed the pooch."

Manager2: "We sure did. What can we do... we look stupid."

Manager 1: "Well we can't look any worse. Might as well stop shipment and announce a delay to fix... what's the least problematic errata that we can use for an excuse?"

Manager2: "Good idea we can fix the blechardic imbalance we discovered last month at the same time."

Manager3: "I can get the SB700 finished up and released to the motherboard people."

Manager4: "How long of a delay?"

Manager2: "Announce Q2 and we'll deliver in March or April."

Manager1: "Make it so."
January 10, 2008 4:15:08 PM

From the past experience, AMD's Q2 is usually June~July time frame. On a side note, Barcelona was supposed to launch in Q2 07.
January 10, 2008 4:34:32 PM

yomamafor1 said:
From the past experience, AMD's Q2 is usually June~July time frame. On a side note, Barcelona was supposed to launch in Q2 07.


Chances that AMD will survive in its curent incarnetion to launch workable B3/B4: 75%
Chances that AMD will survive in its curent incarnetion to launch 45nm: 25%
Chances that AMD will survive in its curent incarnetion to launch 32nm: 5%
January 10, 2008 4:36:38 PM

I don't want to say I was right or I told you so..

Who am I kidding? Yes, I do want to say that!


I remember some people, who I will not name, claiming 2.5ghz Barcelona's by the end of 2007, it's now 2008, and you can't even buy them yet.

I hope AMD can get their stuff together. Some suggest they are adding other features to make the chips faster, to that I say you're wrong.

Why would AMD prolong the shipment of processors any longer than what they have already? Not shipping product is the biggest disaster. AMD would fix it up as quickly as they could and start cranking out K10's rather than leave their fabs idle.

In other words, when we finally do get B3, I highly doubt it will address anything other than the TLB errata.

I predict large losses again for Q4, especially since they weren't shipping product.
January 10, 2008 4:39:12 PM

TechnologyCoordinator said:
I predict large losses again for Q4, especially since they weren't shipping product.


Nah, they shiped several hundred 3850s. Their net proft per card must have been, what, $15? Big money!
January 10, 2008 4:53:46 PM

TechnologyCoordinator said:
I hope AMD can get their stuff together. Some suggest they are adding other features to make the chips faster, to that I say you're wrong.

Why would AMD prolong the shipment of processors any longer than what they have already? Not shipping product is the biggest disaster. I predict large losses again for Q4, especially since they weren't shipping product.


I don't mean to suggest that AMD is adding anything to the chips, but rather that they are trying to fix more than the errata problem. The SB600 motherboard problem is more to the motherboard companies to fix than it is AMD's.

I fully agree that not shipping processors is the biggest disaster financially, unless there is a problem that they haven't admitted which would be even worse, one that would force a massive recall and hurt their reputation even more than it has already suffered. Something like first tossing them into the trash can and then tossing them out of the trash can into the dog poop.
January 10, 2008 4:59:26 PM

OlSkoolChopper said:
Chances that AMD will survive in its curent incarnetion to launch workable B3/B4: 75%
Chances that AMD will survive in its curent incarnetion to launch 45nm: 25%
Chances that AMD will survive in its curent incarnetion to launch 32nm: 5%


QFT..

2007 was a horrible year for AMD cpus, and most likely Q1 and Q2 of 2008 for AMD cpu division will be bad as well.
No matter what way you spin, if your an AMD fanboi or an Intel Fanboi, you can't look at phenom in any good light.

It wouldn't have been so bad if they just said hey we f--ked up phenom, and pushed it back till it work right at all clocks. But from all the leaked benchmarks or videos from last year like the one with a 2ghz Barcy vs a 2.5 ghz Xeon or the benchmarks of a 3ghz ES around june/july 2007. Alot of super hyped BS info was leaked. The product came and sucked. How Hector is still in charge I don't know.

Don't get me wrong if they had pulled of Barcy/Phenom flawlessly AMD fanbois would be singing praises etc. But why they pushed so hard for the native quad core, when the market demand for dual cores is soooooo much higher. Some k10 dualies would have been much better and much easier to launch. Then iron out the k10 dualies and put out some working quads. AMD shot the moon and it will pay heavily for it for a long time to come.

Either way, I just remember 1st 1/2 of 2007 all being excited about Barcy/Phenom. All the press, rumors from sites made it seem so promising. Feels like we were promised an Oscar caliber movie and got battlefield earth Instead.

Too make things worse by the time AMD does if ever get Phenoms out at descent clocks, and finally release some dual core Kumas .......90% of people who read sites like this will have a nice Intel Quad in thier PC. 2007 was a good year for dual core sales, and AMD could made out huge with a k10 dualies.....

But the worse thing of all, is in my eyes AMD as a CPU maker just lost all credibility thing past year. For me it was one of the best points, now whenever I see a AMD CPU benchmark or press release its more like I believe it when I can put it in my pc. No trust = sux
January 10, 2008 5:09:25 PM

This is insane, AMD have totally lost the plot at this point.

Why on earth would anyone buy a 65W 1.8GHz Phenom X4 for power reasons, when in a few weeks time they will be able to buy a 65W 3GHz Core 2 Duo that will have similar TDP, same or lower price, similar performance in apps that can fully utilise 4 cores and about twice the performance in apps that can only use 1 or 2 cores!

This reeks of desperation.
!