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When does "Ghosting" Occur?

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a b U Graphics card
January 8, 2008 3:36:03 PM

I heard that LCD monitors only have a refresh rate of 60 MHz. I also heard that when frame rates get beyond 60 fraps that they can start causing "ghosting" on the screen because the frames are being fed to the monitor faster than the monitor can display them.

That is what I was told. I am not sure if that is true or not because my current video card is really not capable of pushing games over 60 fraps.

I have a NEC 19" LCD Multisync 90GX monitor 4ms. I run games at 1280x1024.

If I were to get a 8800GT and had it push some games up to 100 fraps or more how likely is that to cause "ghosting" on my monitor?

Would it be better to go with a weaker card considering I am running games at 1280x1024?

More about : ghosting occur

a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
January 8, 2008 4:04:38 PM

Ghosting isn't an issue of trying to display 100fps on a 60fps panel, it's an issue where the pixel's black-white-black or white-black-white response time (not the st00pid G-W-G time) is slower than the monitor/image requires and so you see ghosting of the black/white where the other should be. Your '4ms' monitor is like 20-30+ms B-W-B / W-B-W which means it's actual refresh rate would be around 50fps or less, and that's why you get ghosting because it can't keep up to the image. Sending 100fps to the monitor will not change it's appearance versus sending the 60fps to the panel. Now displaying 100fps on a TRUE 100-120hz hz display will look better, but it's because you actually see faster transitions an more information, thus smoother image transitions, but that's different than actual ghosting, since a 60hz CRT doesn't ghost when it shows a 100hz image, but both look better when they actually switch to 100hz.

This is primarily seen in motion shots because the pixels need to change quickly. This is an LCD phenomenon because CRTs, Plasmas, DLPs and LCOS don't experience this because their refresh rates are REAL 5ms or less, meaning 200hz is truely the refresh rate possible and so the 60/100/120 that it tries to display looks crisp because it's within the range of the hardware.

While you may still see what looks like ghosting on those monitors, it's not what the term is used for, and would simply be closer to blur than ghosting.
January 8, 2008 7:37:44 PM

ghosting happens on many lcd's it has too do with the refresh rate even if you have high fps. the only way to tell is too use the monitor or tv.

some lcd's could have 20ms lag time but no ghosting while the fastest that claim 2ms might ghost.

the 120hz tv's are to elimante ghosting in fast sports in tv's


usually low reponce time of 4-8ms are ghost free with gaming

while slow ones of 12-14ms tend to ghost

but it depends on how they test and other factors
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January 8, 2008 7:40:06 PM

refresh is 60-75hz that is not the response time

its the response time which is in microseconds - your eye can only see 6000ms changes in refresh thats the hole picture

you want a responce of 65-70hz or 65-70 times per second with all monitors or you get a glow or buzz
January 8, 2008 8:16:07 PM

to the OP:

when you feed images to the monitor faster than it can display is called "tearing" not "ghosting". And that happens on all monitors regardless of them being CRT or LCD. The way to solve tearing is to enable V-Sync, which will sync the images to your monitor's refresh rate. This caps the performance of games though, usually at 60fps to match the 60hz refresh rate.

"ghosting" has been well covered by the previous posters...=)
a b U Graphics card
January 8, 2008 9:19:04 PM

So in your opinions what would be the best video card for my set up? I want all eye candy MAXED on ultra high for most of todays popular games (Not including Crysis) at maximum frame rates with the least chance of Ghosting or tearing.

19" square monitor
1280x1024 resolution
4ms
January 8, 2008 9:48:24 PM

8800 gt or 8800 gts 512 are almost as good as 8800gtx and should get the job done...
a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
January 8, 2008 9:50:43 PM

The GF8800GT/GTS or HD3870, find out the best value/fps for the options in your area, and either should do a fine job of pushing frames on that 1280x1024 resolution, although I would say avoid the GF8800GT-256 though.
January 8, 2008 10:00:22 PM

I have a Samsung 19inch monitor with a max refresh rate of 72Hz (I use 70Hz in games), and a Response time of 12ms. I have an 8800gt 512 and everything looks great. I do notice "Ghosting" or tearing in America's Army when I sprint. I have not noticed this in COD4, but I do not see those effects on my old 17inch CRT either. Unless you play racing games or flight sims, I doubt you will notice it, even then, I don't think you will notice it.
January 8, 2008 10:15:40 PM

best monitor is a good lcd -- samsung or veiwsonic

hp and dell are really good

there are alot of odd name good monitors too

key is too test or to buy it from: (key)BUY FROM AMAZON unconditional 30 day return - if it ghosts send it back! I buy all my lcd's from amazon - the new ones, that is.
January 8, 2008 10:34:49 PM

I agree with GrapeApe, 8800GT 512MB or HD3870 512MB would great for that resolution. You have a CRT monitor so "ghosting" won't be a problem. As for "tearing", you could turn on v-sync if the tearing gets annoying to you.

Personally, I play with V-sync off, so i can get max framerates, and because tearing doesn't really bother me.
a b U Graphics card
January 8, 2008 11:15:56 PM

pinaplex said:
I agree with GrapeApe, 8800GT 512MB or HD3870 512MB would great for that resolution. You have a CRT monitor so "ghosting" won't be a problem. As for "tearing", you could turn on v-sync if the tearing gets annoying to you.

Personally, I play with V-sync off, so i can get max framerates, and because tearing doesn't really bother me.
Just as a correction: I do NOT have a CRT monitor.

I have an NEC 90GX2 LCD monitor. Here are the stats on it. NEC refers to it as a "Professional Gaming Display"

http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=79f...

I have been very happy with it. The color quality is excellent. I was just trying to figure out what this thing is capable of. NEC says it was designed for gaming. So I would assume Ghosting should not be an issue.
a b U Graphics card
January 8, 2008 11:17:54 PM

soloman02 said:
I have a Samsung 19inch monitor with a max refresh rate of 72Hz (I use 70Hz in games), and a Response time of 12ms. I have an 8800gt 512 and everything looks great. I do notice "Ghosting" or tearing in America's Army when I sprint. I have not noticed this in COD4, but I do not see those effects on my old 17inch CRT either. Unless you play racing games or flight sims, I doubt you will notice it, even then, I don't think you will notice it.
I am so glad you made that post. That is what I was wanting to see. A testimonial from someone with a 8800GT with a 19" monitor.

I held back on getting a 8800GT because I felt Ghosting would be a major issue at 1280x1024 but maybe it won't be that big of a problem.

Thank you for your post.
a b U Graphics card
January 9, 2008 12:00:59 AM

rwayne said:
I have an NEC 90GX2 LCD monitor.

My dad has the 20WGX2, it is one amazing monitor, but damn expensive. I can understand how much you must like yours, the colour vibrancy is amazing. Play farcry on max, it's beautiful.
a b U Graphics card
January 9, 2008 12:07:05 AM

It is a beautiful picture. What I like is that the screen has a gloss coating. Kind of makes it look like a CRT even though it is not. It really pulls the color out of your graphics card.

a b U Graphics card
January 9, 2008 12:08:59 AM

I don't like the glossy screen (I hate my CRT's shine, it's opposite a window so it's even worse), but the colour is simply amazing.
January 9, 2008 12:38:55 AM

Your monitor is much better than mine IMO so I think you are quite safe. Again, I have not noticed any ghosting in other games, Only in America's Army, and it is independent of the video card as the same thing occurred with my7900gs. It does not bother me cause it only happens when I sprint, which means I can't shoot anyway.

COD4 TDM is really fast game play and I have not seen any tearing / ghosting. I do not have vsync on, ever.
a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
January 9, 2008 10:23:39 PM

rwayne said:
... NEC refers to it as a "Professional Gaming Display"

http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=79f...

... NEC says it was designed for gaming. So I would assume Ghosting should not be an issue.



Take any PR with a grain of salt. I'm certain there is ghosting, but whether you'd notice it or not is another issue. It may be reduced ghosting so you might only notice it in an extreme Black-White-Black type of situation, but likely it's reduce on most other transitions enough to not be noticeable.
Try a totally white screen and then use the scroling marquee screensaver in windows with large black letters set to fast and then look for ghosting (not blur), betcha there still be some, but the point is it should be 'OK' for most games.

Anywhoo regardless of the potential for ghosting the cards are pretty much your best choice for any resolution in and around the one you're looking at whether it was LCD or CRT.
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