Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

The Three Great Lies

Last response: in CPUs
Share
January 11, 2008 10:58:44 PM

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/01/11/amd_some_phenoms_delayed_to_q2_some_pulled_into_q1/

According to information provided by AMD today, Phenom 9700 and 9900 processors are in fact delayed and are now expected to be introduced in the second quarter and not in the first. The company noted that this decision was made "based on OEM input".

That was the number one Great Lie. Number two is the check is in the mail. Number three is I promise not to ___ in your _____.

OEM input? "Please dont release any of your new barely competitive products as they will outshine the hopelesly outranked stuff you suckad us into buying already."

Intel blames Yorkie delays on AMD's deflation. AMD blames its Phenom Phiasco on OEM input. Doesnt anyone beleive in telling the truth any more? Damn! :fou: 



More about : great lies

January 11, 2008 11:24:45 PM

If AMD would just admit that phenom is not ready to compete with Intel's lineup they should just say so, and tell the consumers that they want to make sure they produce a "product of great quality". If they admitted that phenom isnt competition yet there would be no negative result.
January 12, 2008 12:09:54 AM

I wonder who decides to say these lies.
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
January 12, 2008 12:37:52 AM

I can't believe AMD said they were going to focus on trying to make defective chips........

Yes, That is what they ACTUALLY said if you read that quote carefully.

However, I suspect the chips are just defective and not made that way on purpose.
January 12, 2008 12:42:51 AM

I am just waiting for the inevitable apperance of Thunderman to begin telling us how Intel is the demon seed etc..
a b à CPUs
a b À AMD
January 12, 2008 12:54:04 AM

The OEMs are companies like Dell and HP who sell cheap prebuilt boxes, with integrated video or low-end video cards. These computers are not for you. They are for your computer-illiterate neighbor who just wants a reliable box to download naughty videos, or for senior citizens who play SimCity and Mahjongg.

I have the FutureShop flyer here. It shows 2 boxes, one with Q6600/8500GT, one with Phenom 9500/integrated 6150, both around CDN$ 1200. Either would be useless in Crysis. Both are going to sell very well, I'm sure. Even the Q6600 and Phenom 9500 are way overkill for the people who will buy these things.

January 12, 2008 12:55:07 AM

As if...it made any difference to anyone.
January 12, 2008 12:56:17 AM

You guys need something better to do.
January 12, 2008 1:23:15 AM

OlSkoolChopper said:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/01/11/amd_some_phenoms_delayed_to_q2_some_pulled_into_q1/

According to information provided by AMD today, Phenom 9700 and 9900 processors are in fact delayed and are now expected to be introduced in the second quarter and not in the first. The company noted that this decision was made "based on OEM input".

That was the number one Great Lie. Number two is the check is in the mail. Number three is I promise not to ___ in your _____.

OEM input? "Please dont release any of your new barely competitive products as they will outshine the hopelesly outranked stuff you suckad us into buying already."

Intel blames Yorkie delays on AMD's deflation. AMD blames its Phenom Phiasco on OEM input. Doesnt anyone beleive in telling the truth any more? Damn! :fou: 

I would have to say they were telling the truth this time, based on the announcements at CES by thieir OEM customers(HP, Dell, Gateway, etc...). The OEMS are going "green", so the higher end processors are not a priority. Given their limited funds, and thus manufacturing capacity, AMD is going to crank out the most chips they can to generate cash flow, which will in turn, finance the higher end chips.

In reality, the enthusiast chip market is way smaller than the mainstream.
January 12, 2008 2:29:01 AM

looks like intels and amds dual and quad cores cant think of more lies not even overcloked at 5ghz with water cooling hahaha.
a b à CPUs
January 12, 2008 2:45:04 AM

Regarding the Number one great lie ... er where are all of the Penryn parts ... pffft ... another paper launch?? Like the Conroe launch was also a paper one ... we couldn't get Conroes here in Australia for 6 months ... volume came much later.

Regarding the second great lie you will find INTEL WERE THE ONLY ONES SENDING CHEQUES IN THE MAIL !!! Er ... read all about the Anti-Trust stuff eh?? Hey ??? Wink ... wink. LMFAO !!!

Intel were frequently giving us the number three lie with the latter Pentium 4 parts ...

Number three is I promise not to ___ in your _____.

melt? motherboard?

toast? your power regulators?

Perform? As per the THG benchies?

LOVING THIS ... "where is Baron when we are on a roll ???"

January 12, 2008 2:55:36 AM

Reynod said:
"where is Baron when we are on a roll ???"


Youre definitely on a roll, dude. All you need now is some mustard, mayo and a pickle! Or given your location, Vegemite! :lol: 

Baron is hiding at AMDZone. I was relieved to find that he didn't hang himslef from a ribbon cable out of a TLB crashed Phenom system.

It seems that at least the Wolfie launch next week will be a real one. In fact some guys in Aussie in another thread are swearing that they have the new Yorkies in their hands. I dont think given AMDs curent moribond condition that Intel would dare to play games now. this is a checkmate move. They wont blow it. Bet on it.
a b à CPUs
January 12, 2008 3:11:38 AM

So AMD is telling us they are going to release a even slower quad cause thats what the OEMS tell em. Ha. Then that are going to follow with X3s....HA. Only the current AMD could screw things up this bad.

Um let me think. We need a new mainstream cpu that performs decent and doesnt use alot of power. AMD remember those good ol CPU's that only came with 2 cores. Those should have came out 1st(at least for the non server version) Then the quad/x3. If the duals werent going to come out 1st then at least get thme out around the same time as the quads.

And to think Hector got a raise. AMD must be run by the unite states gov then. Do a horrible job and get patted on the back and rewarded.

January 12, 2008 3:36:32 AM

Evilonigiri said:
I wonder who decides to say these lies.



I have used that 3rd lie on more than one occasion.
January 12, 2008 3:38:19 AM

Hector didnt get that raise, and the good ol heads of the US of A screw things up, they just raise taxes, what a job eh?
January 12, 2008 4:27:18 AM

The more I read about what's happening the more I'm convinced that AMD is going to do a platform change on us. Releasing slower quads will ease the pressure of keeping the current quads AM2 platform friendly and will start to force mobo vendors to upgrade bios support for Phenom. Then many up graders and existing AM2 users can migrate to quad more easily, but without a huge speed bump.

I'm now expecting the "new platform," faster native quads to take on Intel's Nehalem architecture. The new spider platform with its multi gpu support will have plenty of input as well. I expect that Nehalem will probably feel the full onslaught of the spider platform. That platform may very well end up containing a graphics cpu that can be immediately cross fired with a stand alone card of the same family chip set.

The biggest problem AMD has, as I read it, is the price the market will pay for their current quads, which is stuff all, and so its hard to justify a new flagship cpu release in the current market climate, particularly on an old platform where it is unlikely to make big in-roads on Intel's current advantage anyway.

Indeed one of the most interesting things about this whole cpu release is why is Intel sells their faster CPU's with such low margins? On the other hand they are charging a premium for their chip set mobos, so they look to me to be cribbing some of the margin back there.

Compare this to when the Athlon went to the top of the table, the X2 cpu's hit top price brackets often much higher than the Intel positioned product, so why is Intel so intent on squeezing the slower A64 now? It certainly is making it difficult for AMD to release their new quad when the margins are so low.

Is that the Intel strategy? If it is, then for the time being it's working, largely due to the cash flow restraints under which AMD must operate under since the take over of ATi.

So while the cpu's that Intel makes are the essentially the same design it's relatively easy for them to keep the speed advantage high and the price down. However Intel's new technology, Nehalem, will be a new design and will be in short supply initially so they'll be priced considerably higher so the margins will be better for AMD to release the faster quad cpu's, new platform and all then.
January 12, 2008 4:45:01 AM

tlmck said:
I would have to say they were telling the truth this time, based on the announcements at CES by thieir OEM customers(HP, Dell, Gateway, etc...). The OEMS are going "green", so the higher end processors are not a priority. Given their limited funds, and thus manufacturing capacity, AMD is going to crank out the most chips they can to generate cash flow, which will in turn, finance the higher end chips.

In reality, the enthusiast chip market is way smaller than the mainstream.

Excellent points, truly. Unfortunately, the shadow of TLB and 65nm clock speed binning issues casts heavy enough clouds over Phenom, that even if what AMD says is true, who is going to take their words at face value?
January 12, 2008 4:50:55 AM

Reynod said:
Regarding the Number one great lie ... er where are all of the Penryn parts ... pffft ... another paper launch?? Like the Conroe launch was also a paper one ... we couldn't get Conroes here in Australia for 6 months ... volume came much later.

Regarding the second great lie you will find INTEL WERE THE ONLY ONES SENDING CHEQUES IN THE MAIL !!! Er ... read all about the Anti-Trust stuff eh?? Hey ??? Wink ... wink. LMFAO !!!

Intel were frequently giving us the number three lie with the latter Pentium 4 parts ...

Number three is I promise not to ___ in your _____.

melt? motherboard?

toast? your power regulators?

Perform? As per the THG benchies?

LOVING THIS ... "where is Baron when we are on a roll ???"


Oh, the C2D availability issue is easy. They were all being consumed by the OEMs for the september back to school sales, November Black thursday sales, and December xmas sales. Oh, wait, no, that was the X2 5000. And 5200, or brisbane. I forget the excuses.

I feel for ya, but in the states, they were available. Sorry.

Yup, Intel lied. So does AMD. Whats the difference? None, theyre both corporations. Buy what you want, but dont buy the lies.
January 12, 2008 5:31:16 AM

zenmaster said:
I can't believe AMD said they were going to focus on trying to make defective chips........

Yes, That is what they ACTUALLY said if you read that quote carefully.

However, I suspect the chips are just defective and not made that way on purpose.


While I'd like to see the faster Phenom's out instead of a 65 watt 1.8 gigahertz Phenom, I have no complaint about the triple cores. Let's face it, Intel does the "defective chips" thing too. So did AMD in the past. I'd rather see a budget triple core and see how it compares to the current Phenom's in price/performance than to see nothing this quarter.

Maybe that's what I'll do for my two ASUS 690G boards, get a couple of triple cores at the right price and then build new systems with 780G boards and faster memory next fall after mature 45nm Phenom's arrive? I'd wanted a 2.4 gigahertz Phenom, but that won't be out until May.

Intel fanboyism creates threads like this just as AMD fanboyism creates threads where reviews at Newegg etc. are seen as the ultimate word on Phenom. Give it a rest people. Get a life that's not oriented around proving that one or the other CPU company is a Den Mother for Hitler Youth. Both AMD and Intel are good companies and they both make mistakes in the marketplace, they both innovate as they leapfrog the competition and they will both survive into the next decade.


January 12, 2008 5:36:14 AM

Quote:
The company noted that this decision was made "based on OEM input".

So Hector said "do you guys really want faster desktop quads, or would you rather have the barcelonas that your customers are screaming for?"
They all agreed they would rather take the extra money, suprise suprise.
January 12, 2008 6:10:50 AM

I'm not really sure where AMD is making much profit on this....

1 - The Phenom is much more expensive to make then the 65nm X2 Chips, but is they cut the price much more it will be what they were trying to sell their better X2 chips for a few months ago.

2 - The "Tri-Core" Phenom, are actually failed Quads, so I doubt AMD is "Focusing" on making these. But they might have a large number piling up.

3 - I doubt there is a huge demand for Quad's that are more expensive but underperform the Current X2 Chips. Considering the Huge differnece in Clock speeds already and the further cutting in performance for a very expensive chip to make, the logic becomes hard to accept.

It appears that Tri-Core are piling up because of failing Cores.
AMD Hopes they will get better yields by cutting the clock speeds even further.

I've got a bridge to sell everyone who things AMD is making slower chips because they are desired more than faster ones.
January 12, 2008 7:02:05 AM

am i the only one that thinks amd will pretty much skip 65nm altogether.
i know it sounds like suicide, but i'm startin to think they knew phenom was crap and have been tryin to slap 45nm together. aint that sposed to be out round q3? i'm prolly just full of DELETED and talkin out my DELETED. hey i likes to speculate too.
January 12, 2008 7:29:38 AM

AMD's Three Great Lies:

1. OEM input
2. customer demand
3. NDA due to competitive reason
January 12, 2008 7:44:44 AM

albundy2 said:
am i the only one that thinks amd will pretty much skip 65nm altogether.
Yes. The 65w 64x2 processors are 65nm.

January 12, 2008 7:52:39 AM

albundy2 said:
am i the only one that thinks amd will pretty much skip 65nm altogether.
i know it sounds like suicide, but i'm startin to think they knew phenom was crap and have been tryin to slap 45nm together. aint that sposed to be out round q3? i'm prolly just full of DELETED and talkin out my DELETED. hey i likes to speculate too.


Trust me, you're not alone. A lot of other people (IMO, more knowledgeable people) predicted that AMD will spend little time at 65nm due to its immaturity (compared to its 90nm process).

However, in order to develop a newer process node, the experience learned from the previous node is essential. Given AMD's 65nm is immature, they will only encounter a lot more problems at 45nm.

There are two brick walls between AMD and the newer 45nm process node.
1. Process has to be ramped to fit AMD's specification after purchase from IBM.
2. AMD will add HK/MG to its 45nm line, when IBM won't. As a result, AMD needs to modify the process.

These two factors will severely undermine AMD's effort of having a mature 45nm process.
a b à CPUs
January 12, 2008 7:53:58 AM

I hope the new rumored C stepping 45 nm AMD chips will see the light quickly ....

just being optimistic ... call me a dreamer.

The low power will be a welcome addition to the line but it is clear even with the B3 stepping Phenom's the current manufacturing process will be unlikely to compete from an enthusiast (headroom for overclocking) perspective.

I hope they can put out some 3Ghz chips soon ... even though it is likely they will not be as competitive as the Penryn's across most benchies ... from ES results posted.

AMD will need to do some drastic rework on the caching system because the L3 is clearly causing an issue due in part to it's lower frequency and being locked to the memory controller ... maybe a boost there will help IPC.
January 12, 2008 9:03:46 AM

Reynod said:
I hope the new rumored C stepping 45 nm AMD chips will see the light quickly ....


It doesn't hurt to be an optimist, although I wouldn't keep my hopes up. AMD has been known to slowly ramp their process up to par, compared to Intel (90nm, 65nm). Aside from that, they still have to successfully implement HK/MG on the process themselves.

I would expect limited shipments of 45nm K10 in Q4, and possibly will be delayed to Q1. Volume shipment in Q2.
January 12, 2008 9:28:48 AM

chaosgs said:
If AMD would just admit that phenom is not ready to compete with Intel's lineup they should just say so, and tell the consumers that they want to make sure they produce a "product of great quality". If they admitted that phenom isnt competition yet there would be no negative result.


You are very wrong about that. In fact if they didnt lie, their stock price would collapse. You have to look at things from a business investor perspective and not a techie geek perspective. Wall Street is not made up of geeks, it is made up of Business Suits....and they will dump your stock in a heartbeat if you dont make deadlines and compete in real time....the "Oh hey I have a way better product but it wont be ready till q4 08 is going to see your company lose all its value if your competition already has a better or equivelent product on the market shipping now.
January 12, 2008 9:30:25 AM

OlSkoolChopper said:
That is the summary of a company in very deep doodoo.

On the nose there, AMD is a company in deep doodoo. They may pull out of it....or the entire encholada could collapse around their ears....I think from what I've read and what the Stock Price has done, they are on a knife edge.
January 12, 2008 10:36:04 AM

zenmaster said:
However, I suspect the chips are just defective and not made that way on purpose.

Could be quite a possibility; they might be cutting costs, and not paying as much care to the production. Since they're going for cheaper CPUs anyway, it works out in the end.

harna said:
Indeed one of the most interesting things about this whole cpu release is why is Intel sells their faster CPU's with such low margins? On the other hand they are charging a premium for their chip set mobos, so they look to me to be cribbing some of the margin back there.

Perhaps because Intel knows that their quad-cores are ALSO being compared to their dual-cores? So they can't charge all that much more for them, and hence they go for such thin margins.

zenmaster said:
I've got a bridge to sell everyone who things AMD is making slower chips because they are desired more than faster ones.

It's actually a distinct possibility; I wouldn't be surprised if, given the current market, they're just stockpiling the good ones they produce.

Likewise, I think they may be intentionally being "cheap" in their fabs in order to, well, produce things more cheaply.

At any rate, AMD would have quite a problem in selling their top-end ones... They'd have to charge top-end prices, but would be beaten by Intel's less-than top-end CPUs. So in other words, it'd likely be a loss for AMD.
a b à CPUs
January 12, 2008 11:25:10 AM

Yomama your more optimistic than I am about the new shrink.

I think I need to re-evaluate my AMD fanboi status ... its waning !!
January 12, 2008 1:13:16 PM

StevieD said:
I have used that 3rd lie on more than one occasion.


I dont. Once she's tied up theres nothing she can do about it anyway. :pt1cable: 

endyen said:
Quote:
"the barcelonas that your customers are screaming for?"
Quote:


Customers are screaming alright, but I dont think its for Barcelonas.

albundy2 said:
i know it sounds like suicide, but i'm startin to think they knew phenom was crap and have been tryin to slap 45nm together.


They cant get their colective s*** together at 65 so their gonna just jump to 45? This is like me being unable to get a new RevTech to fire up because I crossed the wires, then deciding that I should manufacter my own engines carved from solid billets and build my own ECU from a Heathkit. :lol: 
January 12, 2008 3:57:49 PM

#4 Lie: It's not you, it's me



Although the #3 lie is hilarious.
January 13, 2008 9:21:16 AM

tlmck said:
Yes. The 65w 64x2 processors are 65nm.

like i said "pretty much" not completely skip. i know they have 65nm procs i own 2! but they're just shrinks/.5multi of their old line.


yomamafor1 said:
Trust me, you're not alone. A lot of other people (IMO, more knowledgeable people) predicted that AMD will spend little time at 65nm due to its immaturity (compared to its 90nm process).

However, in order to develop a newer process node, the experience learned from the previous node is essential. Given AMD's 65nm is immature, they will only encounter a lot more problems at 45nm.

There are two brick walls between AMD and the newer 45nm process node.
1. Process has to be ramped to fit AMD's specification after purchase from IBM.
2. AMD will add HK/MG to its 45nm line, when IBM won't. As a result, AMD needs to modify the process.

These two factors will severely undermine AMD's effort of having a mature 45nm process.

jack?


OlSkoolChopper said:

They cant get their colective s*** together at 65 so their gonna just jump to 45? This is like me being unable to get a new RevTech to fire up because I crossed the wires, then deciding that I should manufacter my own engines carved from solid billets and build my own ECU from a Heathkit. :lol: 


i was thinking somethin similar, but my vision was the 302 in my B2. bike's, 4x's to each their own, but i agree with the concept.
January 13, 2008 10:44:38 AM



Hey cnumartyr,


Quote:
You guys need something better to do.


I couldn't agree more. Although when it is early like this on a Sunday morning and I haven't received my Sunday paper yet... It is nice to come in here and read the "Sunday Funnies" until I am filled with laughter...

Although sometimes I do get really amazed at the stupidity that is in here.

Then I go and read my Sunday morning paper.
a c 172 à CPUs
January 13, 2008 10:56:59 AM

Right now, Intel is in a one horse race, so there'sno real need to push a faster horse (yorkie) out the gate.

Great Lie #5: " We're from the government. We're here to help you."
January 13, 2008 11:09:29 AM

What are IBM on these days (nm wise)?
January 13, 2008 11:34:05 AM

yay said:
What are IBM on these days (nm wise)?

Working on 45.
January 13, 2008 11:54:16 AM

OlSkoolChopper said:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/01/11/amd_some_phenoms_delayed_to_q2_some_pulled_into_q1/

According to information provided by AMD today, Phenom 9700 and 9900 processors are in fact delayed and are now expected to be introduced in the second quarter and not in the first. The company noted that this decision was made "based on OEM input".

That was the number one Great Lie. Number two is the check is in the mail. Number three is I promise not to ___ in your _____.

OEM input? "Please dont release any of your new barely competitive products as they will outshine the hopelesly outranked stuff you suckad us into buying already."

Intel blames Yorkie delays on AMD's deflation. AMD blames its Phenom Phiasco on OEM input. Doesnt anyone beleive in telling the truth any more? Damn! :fou: 


Calm down
January 13, 2008 11:56:01 AM

yay said:
What are IBM on these days (nm wise)?


Still working on 45nm SOI.
a b à CPUs
January 13, 2008 12:10:56 PM



^Price Less.

[:turpit:2]
January 13, 2008 12:33:33 PM

albundy2 said:
jack?


I think that this may refer to the posibility that yomama's secret identity could be the mithical Jumping Jack. I never had the pleasure to read your posts, Jack, but if it is you and what Ive been told is corect, then you are a God among dudes and I'll not only buy you a beer anytime, but loan you a Springer softtail with an S&S 96", 6 speed Roadmax, and a bitchin' 300 rear on a Kraftech frame, and even let you sleep with my best chick. :) 

albundy2 said:
i was thinking somethin similar, but my vision was the 302 in my B2. bike's, 4x's to each their own, but i agree with the concept.


Ya, AMD cant manage to do somethng at one point of technology so it would just jump ahead and do somethng much more complex? Doesnt work that way. To use another anology, it would be like me being unable to make a griled cheese sandwich so I decide to chalenge Bobby Flay and Gordon Ramsey to a cook-off!
January 13, 2008 12:46:23 PM

OlSkoolChopper said:
I think that this may refer to the posibility that yomama's secret identity could be the mithical Jumping Jack. I never had the pleasure to read your posts, Jack, but if it is you and what Ive been told is corect, then you are a God among dudes and I'll not only buy you a beer anytime, but loan you a Springer softtail with an S&S 96", 6 speed Roadmax, and a bitchin' 300 rear on a Kraftech frame, and even let you sleep with my best chick. :) 


I would love to know half of what he knows, and it is definitely a compliment for you guys to compare me to him. :D 

However, no, I'm not him. He's somewhere else though... continuing to share his wisdom and knowledge. :kaola: 
January 13, 2008 12:50:44 PM

yomamafor1 said:
I would love to know half of what he knows, and it is definitely a compliment for you guys to compare me to him. :D 

However, no, I'm not him. He's somewhere else though... continuing to share his wisdom and knowledge. :kaola: 


Hmm... Ive spent a fair bit of my life in poker games and that anser might lead me to beleive that your sittin on a Full House but are playin it cool. Either way, put me squarly into the Jack Fanclub. And I dont even know who he is or read his stuff. :pt1cable: 
January 13, 2008 1:17:01 PM

Here is a good starting point.

roborat64.blogspot.com

EDIT: Look for the poster "JumpingJack" in the comment section.
January 13, 2008 1:57:30 PM

yomamafor1 said:
Here is a good starting point.

roborat64.blogspot.com

EDIT: Look for the poster "JumpingJack" in the comment section.


"Get a couple of guys like Jack and Guru (if you could find them) and hammer out all the variables."

Well that setles it. Im gonna get one of my biker friends (the one with the $100 bills that look like powderd donuts) and buy AMD. Then Im gonna hire Jack and we'll be joint CEOs! Jack gets to be Chief Executive Oficer, and I'll be Chick Exploratory Orificer. :pt1cable: 
January 13, 2008 2:41:37 PM

OlSkoolChopper said:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/01/11/amd_some_phenoms_delayed_to_q2_some_pulled_into_q1/

According to information provided by AMD today, Phenom 9700 and 9900 processors are in fact delayed and are now expected to be introduced in the second quarter and not in the first. The company noted that this decision was made "based on OEM input".

That was the number one Great Lie. Number two is the check is in the mail. Number three is I promise not to ___ in your _____.

OEM input? "Please dont release any of your new barely competitive products as they will outshine the hopelesly outranked stuff you suckad us into buying already."

Intel blames Yorkie delays on AMD's deflation. AMD blames its Phenom Phiasco on OEM input. Doesnt anyone beleive in telling the truth any more? Damn! :fou: 


I do believe neither is telling the truth anymore, but in all fairness, what corporation does?
They are all a bunch of liars. Bill Gates is also an absolute schmuck too.

"just shut up and be sure to drink your ovaltine" seems to be the general corporate concensus these days.
Keep buying our crap and don't ask any questions.

Doesn't matter if Ovaltine has caused cancer in lab animals. Money can be lost by telling the truth.
Just ask Good 'ol AMD. lol They told the truth and look at them now! LOL!

I am sick of this industry as a whole, whether it's lying, overhyping, or just plain ripping us off.
!