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Low Performance, Raedeon X1600pro

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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January 10, 2008 1:51:34 PM

Hey here goes

Ever since I got this PC, there has been problems. First off heres the spec:

Intel Pentium 4 Processor (3 GHz)
Intel 865 chipset family boards (motherboard)
Club 3D Raedeon X1600pro (512 MB RAM)
2 GByte DDR2 RAM (not sure if its 2 or just DDR)

Now what happens is, in ANY game litterly, I have low performance, and putting down the grafic settings helps little to nothing. I have 25 FPS in BF2, but the problem is its not stabile, it jumps all the time, which makes it unplayable. In combat it just contiuesly between 10-25, creating "Lag".

Even in a game as old as World of Warcraft or Warcraft 3 TFT, I get lag. I have done everything, I have reinstalled the OS (countless times, from a clone CD made, cause I dont have the OS install disk, and frankly ain't sure if just getting grafic drivers, motherboard drivers, and sound drivers is all thats needed), I have reinstalled different driver versions for my grafic drivers.

I have dedusted my computer, I have downloaded software to keep an eye on my RAM use and optimizing and what not. I have done every thing to the games themselfs to try to get out some sort of stabile gameplay, but nothiner works.

Now I'm on the edge:

1. accept this PC just won't ever work, get a job and work my way up to a new PC.
2. Buy a new grafics card, and pray to god that was the problem all along.
3. Taking a look at my power supply (the one in the wall, not the PC) and see if there is a problem there.

Now option 1 is the one I would least like to face, cause if the next PC is **** aswell, I would commit suicide. Option 2, I wouldn't do this unless I could somehow confirm that it was the the card that was a problem. Option 3. I have no idea why I would do this, but it just seems plausibel that it could have something to with it.

Any help would be appriciated
January 10, 2008 5:11:48 PM

I just downloaded a new software that looks at the Hard Drives writing and reading speed, and it seems that the lags or "fps jumps" are consistent with when writing tops 100%.

Could it be my hard Drive thats too old?

its an Maxtor 6B300S0
January 10, 2008 6:05:15 PM

Open your task manager while your PC is idle (no programs open). Now check your CPU and Pagefile usage... what do they read? Repeat this step while you're playing a game (alt+tab to minimize the game)

If you CPU and PF usage isn't really maxed, then it's most likely your graphics card (or graphics drivers).
Related resources
January 10, 2008 6:21:50 PM

rgeist554 said:
Open your task manager while your PC is idle (no programs open). Now check your CPU and Pagefile usage... what do they read? Repeat this step while you're playing a game (alt+tab to minimize the game)

If you CPU and PF usage isn't really maxed, then it's most likely your graphics card (or graphics drivers).


And it cant be the hard drive?
January 10, 2008 6:38:04 PM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

follow ^ROAR^'s instructions and then reinstall the 7.12 catalysts drivers from ati.amd.com. then defrag. and you should be good to go.
make sure all previous drivers for any graphics card and .netframeworks 2.0 and up are uninstalled then reinstall 2.0 (not 2.0 sp1) before the reboot, also you should use ccleaner after uninstallations and before you reboot.
January 10, 2008 6:58:03 PM

Naw-yi said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

follow ^ROAR^'s instructions and then reinstall the 7.12 catalysts drivers from ati.amd.com. then defrag. and you should be good to go.
make sure all previous drivers for any graphics card and .netframeworks 2.0 and up are uninstalled then reinstall 2.0 (not 2.0 sp1) before the reboot, also you should use ccleaner after uninstallations and before you reboot.


Its X1600pro what i have, not X1650. However I will do this, althought I highly doubt it will fix it. I thinking maybe I need a completely new Grafic card
January 10, 2008 7:06:22 PM

Make sure your agp drivers are up to date. Go to your MB's website and get the latest. check the agp speed in the ati control center and make sure it is running at max (8x or 4x) . You should see the current agp speed in there somewhere.
January 10, 2008 7:25:24 PM

cah027 said:
Make sure your agp drivers are up to date. Go to your MB's website and get the latest. check the agp speed in the ati control center and make sure it is running at max (8x or 4x) . You should see the current agp speed in there somewhere.


Could you give me the link to that driver from intels website? my motherboard is a 865 chipset (theres tons of updates there, and I have no idea which to pick
January 10, 2008 7:35:49 PM

Sokar408 said:
Its X1600pro what i have, not X1650. However I will do this, althought I highly doubt it will fix it. I thinking maybe I need a completely new Grafic card



Yeah the X1600 could be the problem I have one and installed on my kids computer its not bad for older games but even then if you try to go over say 1024X768 it will choke. Also I think you might need to check all your drivers.

Maybe there is a new BIOS on an older machine like that there could be tons of updates ! :) 

I would recommend running driver cleaner and run all the ATI filter's then install the latest drivers, sometimes ATI drivers do not install right over the old ones.
January 10, 2008 8:15:32 PM

Yeah the X1600 could be the problem I have one and installed on my kids computer its not bad for older games but even then if you try to go over say 1024X768 it will choke. Also I think you might need to check all your drivers.
said:
Yeah the X1600 could be the problem I have one and installed on my kids computer its not bad for older games but even then if you try to go over say 1024X768 it will choke. Also I think you might need to check all your drivers.


Running games at that setting doesn't really solve the problem, granted it gives a bit more stability, but not worth it still. + I'm pretty sure my 3 GHz processor and 2Gbyte RAM is good enough to play BF2, WoW, Warcraft, and all those games smoothly, else my hardware knowledge is outdated heavily.


Maybe there is a new BIOS on an older machine like that there could be tons of updates ! :)
said:

Maybe there is a new BIOS on an older machine like that there could be tons of updates ! :) 


And how do I find, and install this?

Thank you to everyone so far
January 10, 2008 9:02:04 PM

Sokar408 said:
Running games at that setting doesn't really solve the problem, granted it gives a bit more stability, but not worth it still. + I'm pretty sure my 3 GHz processor and 2Gbyte RAM is good enough to play BF2, WoW, Warcraft, and all those games smoothly, else my hardware knowledge is outdated heavily.



And how do I find, and install this?

Thank you to everyone so far



hmm..well don't expect TOO much out of your x1600 besides medium settings in those game at most. your CPU isn't that powerful, even for games like those running @ low resolution you could have a problem. did you try naw-yi's link? reinstalling the drivers and a defrag SHOULD fix any real problems, besides getting an updated piece of hardware. also, check to make sure everything is being powered correctly, you're feeding the card enough amps (+12v rail..), and that nothing is OVERHEATING.

the bios update would be a good idea too..check your MB manufacturers website.
January 10, 2008 9:19:39 PM

JonathanDeane said:
Yeah the X1600 could be the problem I have one and installed on my kids computer its not bad for older games but even then if you try to go over say 1024X768 it will choke. Also I think you might need to check all your drivers.


The X1600pro isn't that bad though. I have one in an older machine with 1GB of ram and a sempron 3000+ and BF2 was definitely playable (>45fps) at medium / high settings and 2X AA @ 1024 X 768.

It could be the psu not giving enough power.
January 10, 2008 9:32:52 PM

Ok now I have done the reinstallation, I have only installed framework 2, and not 3, and completely removed any old drivers with a driver removal tool. Now I got a bit more stability, but still far under what I consider playable all around (25> FPS is unplayable, expecially with frame jumping).

Now for overheating, it seems that the core temp (seen in BIOS) is stabile at 54-58 degrads celsius.

Now, I realize that this might mean something in my PC is damaged, or my GFX card had a defect from the beginning. Now is there any way to know for sure if its the GFX card thats **** up?

Also I had a problem with my old powersupply. It created minor dmg (or some I think), there is a square power plock in the motherboard just below the CPU. Theres 2 yellow, and 2 black wires coming out of it, leading to the power supply.

One of those 4 was partly melted in the plock, but it was cleaned out, and with the new power supply, nothing appeared wrong (before that, it kept randomly shut down, and had a problem where the screen just wouldn't connect with the computer itself, both problems disappeared with the new power supply).

From what I had heard so far, its either:

1. The GFX card (please if you know a way to figure out if this is the problem, and strese test or what not, please let me know)
2. CPU (I highly doubt it, as I have yet to see a game or any application taking up all 100%)
3. A possible surge in the motherboard, from the smaller melt down (please dont blame this unless you absolutly sure that this problem)
January 10, 2008 9:34:56 PM

check to make sure everything is being powered correctly, you're feeding the card enough amps (+12v rail..), and that nothing is OVERHEATING. said:
check to make sure everything is being powered correctly, you're feeding the card enough amps (+12v rail..), and that nothing is OVERHEATING.


Are you taking about the power supply in the computer, or plock in the wall?
January 10, 2008 9:55:01 PM

Was allowed so have to add this with another reply:

PS: 4. The sound might be the problem? althought turning the sound off (in-game) completely doesn't improve performance in any noticable way
January 11, 2008 6:01:50 AM

when your playing games, settings should be on medium, then gradually set individual settings higher, til u find the best setting. also, always unless u have a top of the line card, (x1900, gf8000)always change the shadows to low.

the x1650pro with 512mb of gddr2 will play games with a setting of 1280x1024 better than the lower settings. i know that sounds weird but the ati cards have been know to perform better at higher settings.

also, u should update .netframework to 3.0, after you've installed 2.0, for better system and network stability.
January 11, 2008 7:22:21 AM

iam using HIS x1600pro 256, does CoD 4, GoW, supreme comm exp. etc. good, some cases i need to downclock from my 540 & 414 for GoW not to crash. just use omega drivers.
January 11, 2008 10:52:51 AM

Sokar408 said:
And it cant be the hard drive?


Mate I used to play battlefield 2 on a p4 3ghz with a nvidia 6600, 1gb system ram and a 34gb hard disk. Thats a vanilla non-gt 6600 (there was a big difference between the 2 believe me I bought a gt lol) which was a bit poo when it came out let alone now, and that hard disk is dog slow. I very much doubt the hard disk is soo slow it gives you loads of ingame pauses. More likely youve got loads of cack running in the background, stuff windows loads up on start-up like antivirus and quick time and all that kinda thing and your bf2 graphics settings are too high. When your pc starts up and has finished loading ÉVERYTHING and the hard disk light is only occasionally flashing, go control-alt-delete and look for your commit charge when you select the tab 'performance'. (sorry your on xp right?) Write down/remember this value (lower of the 2) and tell us what it is. Anything over about 150mb with an old hard disk and less than 2gb system ram spells loading induced lag in battlefield.

If you know how to use it and your system really is loading lots of crud on start-up, try using msconfig to turn off what u dont need for gaming. (id say antivirus isnt needed for gaming as long as internet explorer/firefox isnt running). Norton is a huge drag on older systems, so turn every trace of it off when gaming. (remember to turn it back on after).

The pauses sound alot like loading pauses not your video card struggling. Try setting 'textures' and 'geometries' to medium, along with shadows and lighting. The first two use up gobs of ram on high, the second two you wont really notice while in the thick of it all. My old p4 setup took 2 minutes+ to load a 64 player map on these settings with everything else on high, draw distance at maximum, 2xAA at 1024x768, plus another 45 seconds to 1 minute 30 after joining the game before stuttering had stopped and all was smooth. I found the worst maps for loading times in order of worst to least worst were: daqing oilfields, dragon valley, kubra dam, and gulf of oman. So expect less trouble on the urban ones where you dont see as much (and less needs to be loaded) when your wandering around them.
January 11, 2008 10:54:37 AM

sorry, i see you have 2gb, an old slow hard disk will still choke your machine though so follow the above anyway. Cheers.
January 11, 2008 11:05:59 AM

Quote:
One of those 4 was partly melted in the plock, but it was cleaned out, and with the new power supply, nothing appeared wrong (before that, it kept randomly shut down, and had a problem where the screen just wouldn't connect with the computer itself, both problems disappeared with the new power supply).
That is the CPU power block / cable. I'm actually surprised that it hasn't caused any other problems.
January 11, 2008 3:20:59 PM

rgeist554 said:
Quote:
One of those 4 was partly melted in the plock, but it was cleaned out, and with the new power supply, nothing appeared wrong (before that, it kept randomly shut down, and had a problem where the screen just wouldn't connect with the computer itself, both problems disappeared with the new power supply).
That is the CPU power block / cable. I'm actually surprised that it hasn't caused any other problems.


Well yes I knew that (spend god knows how many hours last night learning about hardware), but it was the power cable head that melted a bit, not the plock. When it was cleaned out the plock was as good as knew. Ofc if a surge happend at the same time, it could have **** up alot of thinks.

As for the background programs, no way dude, thanks but that just not whats wrong. I have 35 processors running (which is the minimum for the **** to even run stabile), and none of them take more then 5.000-10.000 Kbyte memory, and 0 CPU power.

To the guy saying I got a slow hard drive, could this seriously affect my PC? (and I mean that as in creating lag?). Also no one answered me on the PSU, I read alot of posts about higher GFX cards, that need some amount of amp lvl on the 12v cable, and I know that mine only have 14 amps on it.

So far I'm planing a new PSU, with 3 12v cables, with Crossfire validation, og 16 amps on each cable (that should bring it over 30 amps on the GFX card I'm playing to buy)
and a Sapphire RADEON X1950 PRO (512 Mb) GFX card.

If that doesn't solve the problem, I'm playing to get a new hard drive, however that could be a big problem cause I as said I dont know all the drivers I would need to the PC (I didn't build it), and I dont have a Windows installation disk (I use a clone to reinstall it)

ALSO! note that my GFX was in when the old PSU went off, I think this could have damaged the card, as before that, it worked just fine.

In short, I think that my old PSU (not the one i have now), gave in a partly melted a power stick, and created a surge in the GFX (as this is what needed the extra power my father didn't account for). This is the only logical explanation I can come up with.
January 11, 2008 6:46:32 PM

Btw as my FPS is still low and unstabile no matter how much I change my graphics, doesn't that mean its not my graphics card, or would this not make any difference if the GFX is damaged?
January 11, 2008 6:58:23 PM

Quote:
As for the background programs, no way dude, thanks but that just not whats wrong. I have 35 processors running (which is the minimum for the **** to even run stabile), and none of them take more then 5.000-10.000 Kbyte memory, and 0 CPU power.


If this is the case, then it's almost all on your GPU that's causing the problem. (Unless your CPU runs up to 100% usage during games)

Quote:
To the guy saying I got a slow hard drive, could this seriously affect my PC? (and I mean that as in creating lag?). Also no one answered me on the PSU, I read alot of posts about higher GFX cards, that need some amount of amp lvl on the 12v cable, and I know that mine only have 14 amps on it.
The card you buy will specify the amperes required to power the card. They usually list the requirements as the total amperes required to power the entires system. (Ex. 8800GTS requires 26 amperes on the +12v for the whole system and a minimum of 400W) Something like that.

If the problem was your PSU, I think the problems would be a lot more severe than just decreased performance. I think you would experience no boot at all, a erroneous post code warning that your GPU is not inserted, or random crashes when your PSU exceeds it's peak output.

Your hard drive can cause slow game play if you play any games that require your system to access the HD to get information. (Ex. You move to a non-loaded area, you're PC requests the textures & geometry from the HD.) If you're HD light is going crazy (or you can audibly hear your HD accessing information) while gaming, then it's probably safe to say that is your problem.

If you have any anti-virus or scanning utilities, make sure they aren't running while you game. They're going to require CPU time and HD activity to work.

Quote:
ALSO! note that my GFX was in when the old PSU went off, I think this could have damaged the card, as before that, it worked just fine.
This could also be the case. I recently had someone with a cheap PSU start to burn it self, and it ended up frying their onboard sound. Lesson: Don't by cheap PSU's.
January 11, 2008 8:21:00 PM

Thank you so much rgeist554, from what I can gather from this thread, I'm almost sure that my Graphics Card took a beating, and thats the problem, the fan from he has started to sound weird also.

Also you said that the load thingy would be the problem with my Hard Drive, now I have seen lag coming from me moving into arenas fast (like in jets in BF2), where the lag is getting alot worst the normal, however couldn't this just aswell be the Graphic card?

So far I would think that an upgrade in Graphic card would be in order, however what would you say about this upgrade:

NorthQ NQ-4775-700 Giant Ghost (PSU)
Sapphire RADEON X1950 PRO AGP (512 MB) (this requires about 30 amps, but has 2 power plocks, so the PSU above should cut it just fine)

Heres the my machine's all over spec:

CPU: Intel Pentium 4 Hyperthreading (3 Ghz)
RAM: 2 Gbyte (DDR2)
Motherboard: D865GLC/D865PESO (thats what it says on the board, how can it be 2 boards in 1?)
Chipset: Intel® 865G Chipset
Hard Drive: Maxtor 6B300S0
Sound: SoundMAX Integrated Digital Audio

Btw if this brings anything else to mind about my gaming problems, please note that aswell :) 

Once again thanks to all of you
January 11, 2008 8:34:57 PM

dont get that psu its overkill and a brand ive never heard of...look for an antec earthwatts 380w psu OR corsair hx520(this is still a little overkill). dont skimp out on the psu, if it goes, your system goes..
January 11, 2008 9:18:38 PM

overkill isn't a bad thing is? also I need 30 AMP on 12v cable or it won't cut it for the Graphic Card
January 11, 2008 11:01:40 PM

Ohhh and btw, I just noticed my display can only handle 60 mhz, I heard this could be it aswell, any thoughts?
January 12, 2008 1:22:09 AM

HOLY ****! my CPU ends up at 74-86 degrads celsius... thats bad right?
!