Water Cooling in the Comos

Cosmo S (Designed for water cooling, but may switch to the original cosmo)
750TX (more power)
P5E-Deluxe
E8400 (Read a review where it was overclocked to 4.4ghz........want to give it a try)
TWIN2X2048-6400C4
WD1601ABYS
WD5000AAKS
WriteMaster SH-S203B
EAH4850 ( 1 of 2 for crossfire power)
EAH4850 ( 2 of 2 for crossfire power)
VG2230wm
H20-Compact
MCR 320-QP
S-Flex SFF21E (for radiator)
Also will be getting VGA water blocks due to 4850's running hot, even though everyone is reporting that the Asus model comes with software that controls the stock fan and once adjusted by this software the heat no longer becomes an issue.

I really need all the expertise anyone has on this issue.......what is the best water cooling setup for this sytem? I want to explore both options of water cooling, being thermoelectric or just standard water cooling.

First off, its for gaming...nuff said....I've been researching for the last 4 days and I just can't seem to find the answers I'm lookinf for.....The Cosmo can have a total of 6 fans mounted on the top...alternatively you can mount up to a 3x120mm radiator on the top internally....

1) So, when I mount the radiator internally, the fans attached the radiator...what direction is the air coming from? Do those fans pull air from outside into the radiator to help cool the hot air being pushed back into the case. Or do the fans push the air out of the case?

2) If I used all 6 fans (3 external over top of the vents that cover the radiator and the 3 attached to the radiator) What direction is the air flow being carried or whats the best way for the air flow to be carried?

3) 4850s....we've all read the various reviews and while the are cheap powerhouses, they run very hot. I'm going crossfire and want to run VGA coolers on them.....But, whats the best setup for this? pump - cpu - rad (1) - vga coolers - rad (2)? Also, how do I keep from bring heat from vga cooler 1 to vga cooler 2? Do I introduce a radiator inbetween the 2 coolers? or do I split them off coming from rad (1) and combine them back when going into rad (2)? And again what direction is the air coming from to provide maximum performance for the radiator?


Thanks in advance to everyone who can help!
27 answers Last reply
More about water cooling comos
  1. Quote:
    1) So, when I mount the radiator internally, the fans attached the radiator...what direction is the air coming from? Do those fans pull air from outside into the radiator to help cool the hot air being pushed back into the case. Or do the fans push the air out of the case?


    You can really do either, but will notice a slightly lower temp with incoming air. The benefit to either is how you want your fans to cool your board and other components. If you have intake fans on the front and/or sides, outward on the radiator would be best.

    Quote:
    2) If I used all 6 fans (3 external over top of the vents that cover the radiator and the 3 attached to the radiator) What direction is the air flow being carried or whats the best way for the air flow to be carried?


    Not sure exactly how this is set up, but in looking at pictures of what I believe to be your case, you will want as much balance as possible or even a little higher output.

    Quote:
    But, whats the best setup for this? pump - cpu - rad (1) - vga coolers - rad (2)? Also, how do I keep from bring heat from vga cooler 1 to vga cooler 2? Do I introduce a radiator inbetween the 2 coolers? or do I split them off coming from rad (1) and combine them back when going into rad (2)? And again what direction is the air coming from to provide maximum performance for the radiator?


    You can run all in serial and be just fine. The typical misconception that 'my super heated water from CPU/GPU to the next component' doesn't apply with water as the temps you see with air. First, the coolant is moving so fast and is able to carry so high of thermal capacity that the components never really get that hot. With that being said, you might see a 1-2C difference between Crossfired/SLI cards; probably no more than 3-4C max.

    I usually run loops in this way:

    pump > cpu > NB > GPU(s) > radiator > (resevoir, if wanted)

    I know that some people say place the radiator before the CPU, but in theory, it is. It just gets pulled from the radiator by the pump first. I would rather pull through a radiator with a pump than push through it...it just seems to make more sense that way.

    If you really wanted to run 2 radiators, you could also consider doing a parallel loop just for CPU and NB and split the other for your GPUs with each loop running into a separate rad, then 'Y' them back into your pump.


    CPU > northbridge > rad
    pump < >resevoir > pump
    GPU > GPU > rad >
  2. How much more effective is thermoelectric cooling for the processor?
  3. You will see below ambient temps, often very cool, but the 'hot' side might be much hotter than a normal CPU gets. I don't really know, I've never used TEC, so I don't have an accurate comparison for you. I would assume it might bump temps some, but it can't be too drastic otherwise they wouldn't be recommended in a regular water loop.
  4. Quote:
    1) So, when I mount the radiator internally, the fans attached the radiator...what direction is the air coming from? Do those fans pull air from outside into the radiator to help cool the hot air being pushed back into the case. Or do the fans push the air out of the case?


    The best orientation would be rad (bottom), fans (middle), the case (top) with the fans "pulling" air through the rad and out of the case.

    Quote:
    2) If I used all 6 fans (3 external over top of the vents that cover the radiator and the 3 attached to the radiator) What direction is the air flow being carried or whats the best way for the air flow to be carried?


    With 6 fans I'd do a "push/Pull" orientation. Same as above, but with three fans below the rad pushing air through the rad. All 6 fans would be flowing air in the same direction and out of the case. I'm not sure if you'll have the internal clearance to do that, though.

    Quote:
    3) 4850s....we've all read the various reviews and while the are cheap powerhouses, they run very hot. I'm going crossfire and want to run VGA coolers on them.....But, whats the best setup for this? pump - cpu - rad (1) - vga coolers - rad (2)? Also, how do I keep from bring heat from vga cooler 1 to vga cooler 2? Do I introduce a radiator inbetween the 2 coolers? or do I split them off coming from rad (1) and combine them back when going into rad (2)? And again what direction is the air coming from to provide maximum performance for the radiator?


    Loop order causes more heated "discussion" amongst water coolers than almost anything else. I agree 100% with rubix_1011 that the fluid moves so rapidly through the entire loop, that loop order makes very little effective difference. Loop for simplicity and to reduce tight bends (which can kill flow). DEFINITELY no 90degree bends or elbows and no pinched tubing. Personally, I'd keep all the components in series and not split the loop. The water will tend to take the path of least resistance and one side will likely get better flow than the other.
  5. Well, I think that alot of what you "might" consider should also be influenced by what your intentions are as far as o'clocking is concerned (i.e. aggrssively or just mildly). The reason for this is the difference between TEC cooling and just straight watercooling. As expensive as an initial watercooling setup is (if you go top of the line), adding TEC cooling to the mixture raises the expense bar considerably. In fact, just having a TEC CPU block (depending on which one) can, effectively, double the price of a watercooling setup (i.e Spyder CPU TEC block (437w), PSU, miscellaneous parts could run you upwards of $400 or more).

    Now, thw Arctic Spyder is pretty much the high end of TEC blocks for the CPU and is pretty much overkill. In this area, unless you are a dedicated o'clocker, you really don't need much more than the Swiftech CPU block (226w).

    My Swiftech block allowed me to keep my mildly o'clocked Q6600 (320FSB) at 0 degrees C. However, a 226w TEC block needs no less than a dual 120mm rad - dedicated. TEC produce a tremendous amount of heat and you dare not add any other blocks in line with it and the rad. So, if you intended on cooling some GPU 9s) then you would need a cooling loop with two dual 120mm rads minimum like this:

    reservoir - pump - CPU TEC waterblock - rad - GPU (s) waterblock (s) - rad - back to reservoir.

    And for god sake, don't put the rad directly AFTER the pump. I know that some people do this but that really does affect the benefit of the best flowrate that the CPU block would otherwise recieve. The best spot in a cooling loop is directly after the coolant leaves the pump and common sense says that having the CPU block in that position would be the best benefit.

    So there you have it as far as TECs are concerned. I've been using them for 5 years now and I will admit that they cost me plenty. But, besides using phase-change or McGyvering some kind of liquid nitrogen contraption, TECs are the only only realy "practical" way to get below ambient temperatures - something air or straight watercooling cannot do.

    As far as straight watercooling - two rads, one fore the CPU and one for the crossfire.

    reservoir - pump - cpu - rad - gpu - gpu - rad - back to reservoir. If you use a one triple 120mm rad then some of those major components will be made to suffer from the heat collected by previous waterblocks as well as the heat they generate on their own. I mean, think about it:

    reservoir - pump - cpu - gpu - gpu - rad - back to reservoir

    I the first gpu is having to deal with its own heat and the heat from the cpu. Now, the last gpu has all that AND its own heat as well.

    You get the picture.
  6. How about this one and saves me on a radiator, I get the idea. Also, just found some excellent info on Xoxide's site http://www.xoxide.com/water-cooling.html


    CPU 4850 - 1
    Pump/Res< > Radiator < > pump/res
    NB 4850 - 2

    thanks rubix.......if anyone else knows more about TEC your input would be welcome...thanks!
  7. destro said:
    How about this one and saves me on a radiator, I get the idea. Also, just found some excellent info on Xoxide's site http://www.xoxide.com/water-cooling.html


    CPU 4850 - 1
    Pump/Res< > Radiator < > pump/res
    NB 4850 - 2

    thanks rubix.......if anyone else knows more about TEC your input would be welcome...thanks!



    Optimum flow rate is between 1-1.5gpm. With that setup, you'll kill the flow rate through your VGA cards - effectively cutting it in half through each card (the cpu/NB split isn't that critical). I wouldn't do it.

    No TEC experience here. You can try here, though:

    http://www.overclock.net/peltiers-tec/
  8. Run your GPUs in serial...don't split them to parallel. Besides, you will just create more of a headache trying to figure out how to get the fittings and tubing all crammed in there between each one. Either put a rad between the CPU and GPUs, or just run 1 bigger one after.
  9. if i got the same setup i would config it as follow if i got it in a cosmo s.
    top pump>3x120 radiator>CPU>NB>120 radiator buttom>CF>Reservior


    depend on how powerful the pump is you might need another pump at the second 120 radiator.

    TEC? im not so sure, but it cant cool everything at a reasonable price.
  10. The reservoir always has to come above the pump because pumps are not designed to "pull" water but push it. That is why they have to be primed via gravity fed.

    Destro, in your proposed setup, the hear from those gpus in crossfire are going to hit the CPU and NB the next time around and you aren't going to get any sort of cooling down in that situation. Running things in parallel like that is going to kill your flowrate. If you want optimal cooling where your CPU is going to get the best possible cooling potential then you should have it be the first thing that recieves the flow out of the pump, then put the NB after it.

    I am using an MCP655 and I've used it to power a cooling loop smilar to what you priopose with the exception that I had SLI and not crossfire.

    That setup was:

    reservoir - pump - TEC CPU waterblock - dual 120mm rad - gpu - gpu - dual 120mm rad - back to reservoir.
  11. Quote:
    Destro, in your proposed setup, the hear from those gpus in crossfire are going to hit the CPU and NB the next time around and you aren't going to get any sort of cooling down in that situation. Running things in parallel like that is going to kill your flowrate. If you want optimal cooling where your CPU is going to get the best possible cooling potential then you should have it be the first thing that recieves the flow out of the pump, then put the NB after it.


    Show's how much I know, but I been doing heavy research this weekend that have answered lots of questions, but as always there are a few exceptions....THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS EDUCATED ME SO FAR!!!

    1) Laing DDC 3.2 pump, has an acrylic top and acrylic reservoir made for it. I always have read the acrylic breaks and springs leaks. However, I read that the acrylic topped versions of this pump out perform just about everything, in just about any kind of situation http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/DDC32PumpTopTesting.html. Do I risk it? or the acrylic leaks are not that common enough to worry about?

    If acrylic really isn't an issue...I would be looking to setup like this;

    DDC 2 -3.2 w/ XSPC Arcylic reservoir top > DDC 2 -3.2 w/ XSPC Arcylic top > Radiator 120x3 > CPU > GPU > GPU > Radiator 120x3 > reservoir.............

    2) Would it be better to have both DDC pumps with the reservoir top?

    3) Use seperate reservoirs?

    4) Would multiple reservoirs be better?....as you see I'm only going with 1 reservoir acrylic top. However, I was thinking have both pumps with the acrylic reservoir top.

    5) Also, should I remove the radiator between the pumps and CPU and move it between the CPU and the first GPU....for this type setup? I read its better to have a radiator between the pump and CPU. Then again everyone says order doesn't really matter....I looking for max performance!!

    DDC 2 -3.2 w/ XSPC Arcylic reservoir top > DDC 2 -3.2 w/ XSPC Arcylic top > CPU > Radiator 120x3 > GPU > GPU > Radiator 120x3 > reservoir/DDC pump

    All advice welcome..........thanks in advance!
  12. First off - Trust Martin. He's tested just about everything.

    Quote:
    1) Laing DDC 3.2 pump, has an acrylic top and acrylic reservoir made for it. I always have read the acrylic breaks and springs leaks. However, I read that the acrylic topped versions of this pump out perform just about everything, in just about any kind of situation http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/DD [...] sting.html. Do I risk it? or the acrylic leaks are not that common enough to worry about?


    The XSPC tops are great and sturdy. I have seen reports of the OC labs tps cracking. I have an XSPC top on my DDC 3.2

    Quote:
    2) Would it be better to have both DDC pumps with the reservoir top?

    3) Use seperate reservoirs?


    Mostly a matter of preference. The reservoir tops gave the best performance in Martin's test, but the difference over the regular XSPC top was minimal. You also have to consider the space to place two pumps with the reservoir top.

    Quote:
    4) Would multiple reservoirs be better?....as you see I'm only going with 1 reservoir acrylic top. However, I was thinking have both pumps with the acrylic reservoir top.


    I would go with the plan as you have above - the first with the reservoir top an the 2nd with the regular top. You don't need two reservoirs in a single loop. A res does slow your flow down. In your case, you could consider two separate loops.
  13. Quote:
    You also have to consider the space to place two pumps with the reservoir top.
    I think I could fit two of those in the CosmoS...but your right I think the other setup is much better and space considerations aren't as necessary....But

    1) In a normal situation I would need gravity to help fed the pump from the reservoir....With a reservoir built on top of the pump I no longer have to worry about that?


    2) Also, does it make more sense for the radiator to between CPU and pump or CPU and 1st GPU?
  14. If you have the resevoir above the pump, pulling straight in, you are fine. Air goes up, water goes down, into the pump and out to your CPU.

    Go with the radiator after your CPU and before the pump. This way, it cools the water after it passes your CPU and it feeds your res or pump afterward. You will get better flow rates pushing directly to your CPU block than pushing through a radiator first.
  15. Quote:
    1) In a normal situation I would need gravity to help fed the pump from the reservoir....With a reservoir built on top of the pump I no longer have to worry about that?


    In your scenerio the first pump is gravity fed from the attached reservoir top. The second inline pump is force fed from the first pump and won't need gravity :D

    I personally don't think order is going to make any significant difference. The good thing is you can try it different ways and see for yourself.
  16. Thanks everyone, you've all been very helpful.....I missed a few replies, scrolling back through I this post I found some more useful info. If I had saw it prior I wouldn't have asked certain questions..my mistake...thanks again!
  17. Destro, to give you some ideas, here's my Comos S water cooled setup:

    CoolingWorks™ Single Bay
    Swiftech Apogee™ Drive Pump/Block
    Swiftech MCR320 3x120mm
    Swiftech MCR120 1x120mm (Modified Front Mount)

    4 120mm Fans about 1200-1500 RPMs

    Swiftech MCW60-A2900 ATI 2900 Adapter Kit
    Swiftech MC14 BGA Memory Heatkink Kit
    Swiftech MCW60-R ATI 2900 GPU Blocks

    Pushing through 3/8" tubing from reservior > CPU Block > GPUs > 120mm Rad > 3x120mm Rad>reservior. The 120mm sits at the bottom near the front of the computer. Radiator fans pull out while the side fan blows in. The pump doesn't have any issues pushing this setup.
    And you don't need six fans on the 3x120mm--There's one 70 cfm and two 100 cfm on the bottom and three 70 cfm on top of my setup. I ran them all maxed and it barely made a difference.

    I also have 4850s in the system now and they hover around 33c idle. So about 40-45 load. They use the same adapter kit. Also you probably don't need the extra 120mm radiator either. It made a few degrees though.









  18. Nice...looks good. How do those 4850's run? I just picked up a 9800gtx and pushed my q6600 to 4.0...what are you hitting in 3dmark06 with those? I wanted to see how they run in Crossfire, since I have a P35 board.
  19. Thanks for the compliment.

    I have the 4850s at 690 core/1100 mem. Won't go any higher--I need a voltage mod :). I'll run the "generic" 3Dmark tonight on the E8400 @ 4.18. I think it was in the 17K's. They are noticeably faster than my 2900s. I play Unreal Tournament 3 and on some maps, while playing online, it feels uncontrollable. This is only at 1440x900 though.

    I wish my Q6600 could get 4.0, I'd have it back in the system. It can manage only about 3.2 and it's only a B3 though.
  20. NP...I am running low 16k with my setup...I want to see if I can squeeze more out of the GPU...it has only been mildly overclocked. I wanted the thermal paste to seat with the waterblock so it could be soon... :)
  21. I do like your setup, but I'm going to use 2 120x3 rads.....1 external on the back and one in the top.
  22. rubix_1011 said:
    NP...I am running low 16k with my setup...I want to see if I can squeeze more out of the GPU...it has only been mildly overclocked. I wanted the thermal paste to seat with the waterblock so it could be soon... :)


    OK, got:

    4850 Crossfire at 690 core/1100 mem E8400 @ 4.18 ===> 18344 3DMarks
    4850 Crossfire at 690 core/1100 mem E8400 @ 4.50 ===> 19185 3DMarks

    For the 4.5:

    SM 2.0 Score 8592
    SM 3.0 Score 9656
    CPU Score 4037
  23. cd14, for your 4850 CF did you have to purchase anything special to mount the waterblock? or Did it ship with everything you needed?
  24. Well, I think that alot of what you "might" consider should also be influenced by what your intentions are as far as o'clocking is concerned (i.e. aggrssively or just mildly). The reason for this is the difference between TEC cooling and just straight watercooling. As expensive as an initial watercooling setup is (if you go top of the line), adding TEC cooling to the mixture raises the expense bar considerably. In fact, just having a TEC CPU block (depending on which one) can, effectively, double the price of a watercooling setup (i.e Spyder CPU TEC block (437w), PSU, miscellaneous parts could run you upwards of $400 or more).

    Now, thw Arctic Spyder is pretty much the high end of TEC blocks for the CPU and is pretty much overkill. In this area, unless you are a dedicated o'clocker, you really don't need much more than the Swiftech CPU block (226w).

    My Swiftech block allowed me to keep my mildly o'clocked Q6600 (320FSB) at 0 degrees C. However, a 226w TEC block needs no less than a dual 120mm rad - dedicated. TEC produce a tremendous amount of heat and you dare not add any other blocks in line with it and the rad. So, if you intended on cooling some GPU 9s) then you
    Quote:
    would need a cooling loop with two dual 120mm rads minimum like this:
    Or bigger rad
    reservoir - pump - CPU TEC waterblock - rad - GPU (s) waterblock (s) - rad - back to reservoir.

    And for god sake, don't put the rad directly AFTER the pump. I know that some people do this but that really does affect the benefit of the best flowrate that the CPU block would otherwise recieve. The best spot in a cooling loop is directly after the coolant leaves the pump and common sense says that having the CPU block in that position would be the best benefit.

    So there you have it as far as TECs are concerned. I've been using them for 5 years now and I will admit that they cost me plenty. But, besides using phase-change or McGyvering some kind of liquid nitrogen contraption, TECs are the only only realy "practical" way to get below ambient temperatures - something air or straight watercooling cannot do.

    As far as straight watercooling - two rads, one fore the CPU and one for the crossfire.

    reservoir - pump - cpu - rad - gpu - gpu - rad - back to reservoir. If you use a one triple 120mm rad then some of those major components will be made to suffer from the heat collected by previous waterblocks as well as the heat they generate on their own. I mean, think about it:

    reservoir - pump - cpu - gpu - gpu - rad - back to reservoir

    I the first gpu is having to deal with its own heat and the heat from the cpu. Now, the last gpu has all that AND its own heat as well.

    You get the picture.



    the back fan is no longer in the case its in pic 3 the shroud
  25. ^^ I am guessing you don't haul that to many LANs...

    :)
  26. yep second puter

    MB CPU has been changes since that pic
  27. destro said:
    cd14, for your 4850 CF did you have to purchase anything special to mount the waterblock? or Did it ship with everything you needed?


    What blocks are you using? Supposedly the mounting for the 3800s and 4800s are compatible, but...when I installed my MCW60-R GPU blocks, I had to use my 2900 adapter kit. It matched perfectly. Perhaps I'm missing a bracket that was inlcuded with the block; I will take a look. Are you going with the MCW60-R blocks? In my opinion, they're decent. Had them for six months or so, with no problems. They keep my 4850s in 40s while loaded.

    Swiftech MCW60-A2900 ATI 2900 Adapter Kit
    Swiftech MC14 BGA Memory Heatkink Kit
    Swiftech MCW60-R ATI 2900 GPU Blocks
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