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Why is a 8800gt better than a 3870?

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a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 7:06:59 PM

Any insight on these questions would really be appreciated.
With the nvidia 8800gt: Core: 600 - 625 MHz
Memory: 1800 - 1900 MHz DDR3
And ATi 3870 Core: 775 - 850 MHz
Memory: 2250 - 2400MHz DDR4.
Why is it that in almost every forum and informational site I have been on, says that the 8800 is better than the 3870?
We know that DDR2 is better than DDR and DDR3 is better than DDR2, so why is it that DDR4 isn't being praised over the DDR3?
So in a nutshell, why is the slower 8800 in everything, core speed, memory speed and type of memory, ranked higher than the 3870?
I checked this forum but no one really explained why.
Thanks.

More about : 8800gt 3870

January 18, 2008 7:32:17 PM

it magicly does better in games amd cant get the drivers that right
on paper 3870 blows proberly the gtx away by in games and do to the drivers it doesnt
January 18, 2008 7:42:35 PM

Do not compare core/memory speeds. That's like comparing apples and oranges. You gotta keep in mind the difference in performance is based on the architecture of the GPU. Just because a card is higher clocked means nothing of performance. Think of a 3 ghz celeron compared to a 3 ghz pentium 4 northwood/prescott. Same rated speed, but the prescott/northwood would run circles around the celeron. Speed doesn't mean everything.
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January 18, 2008 7:54:39 PM

However, the 3870 scales better when it comes to running multiple card. Go figure. :ange: 
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 7:55:09 PM

Yeah, like Kamrooz said, you are comparing apples to oranges. Shoot look at the 8600GTS vs 8800GT. Both have GDDR3. The 8600GTS is clocked higher in core and memory and just a tad less in shader clock. But the perofrmance is worlds apart. So obviously there is alot more to this than clock speeds. The 8800GT has a 256MB mem interface vs 128-bit, 28 pixel/vertex pipelines vs 8 for the 8600GTS, 16 ROP instead of 8 ROP, 56 texturing units vs 16, 112 Stream processors vs 32, etc.



January 18, 2008 7:58:40 PM

The 8800GT is faster.

However, the specs do make the 3870 look a lot faster with 320 shaders. But this isn't the case.

Good news is the 3870 is more future-proof with DX10.1 and HDMI. I think it also consumes less power. The 3870 is also cheaper and can run as fast or faster with 2 cards in CrossFire (just scales better than SLI)
January 18, 2008 8:01:45 PM

pauldh said:
Yeah, like Kamrooz said, you are comparing apples to oranges. Shoot look at the 8600GTS vs 8800GT. Both have GDDR3. The 8600GTS is clocked higher in core and memory and just a tad less in shader clock. But the perofrmance is worlds apart. So obviously there is alot more to this than clock speeds. The 8800GT has a 256MB mem interface vs 128-bit, 28 pixel/vertex pipelines vs 8 for the 8600GTS, 16 ROP instead of 8 ROP, 56 texturing units vs 16, 112 Stream processors vs 32, etc.

Agree.
Going off on a little.. Will ATi fix the 16 texture units to 64 or so units anytime soon? That seems to be the weak link in the 3870.
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 8:04:52 PM

Yeah HD3870 and 2900XT alike.
January 18, 2008 8:08:21 PM

For multi card solutions. It is indeed fact that ati is better. I love the Crossfire scalability, it literally demolishes Nvidia's SLI.
January 18, 2008 8:26:09 PM

I would say the main reason is because of the Shader clock. Nvidia has them high in the 1000s while ATI's is the same as the GPU clock.
If Nvidia didn't have this edge then the 3870 would probably be more powerfu.
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 8:27:43 PM

Kamrooz said:
For multi card solutions. It is indeed fact that ati is better. I love the Crossfire scalability, it literally demolishes Nvidia's SLI.

Do you have any links showing crossfire demolishing SLI? I have seen very little testing of this which seems odd at this point. Crossfire HD3870 and SLI 8800GT trade blows from what I haves seen in small tests like expreview. Scalability wise that would mean crossfire did better. But SLi still owns the performance crown as of now.
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 8:28:59 PM

Quote:
I would say the main reason is because of the Shader clock.

Shader clock and more texturing power in the 8800GT.
January 18, 2008 8:49:46 PM

pauldh said:
Do you have any links showing crossfire demolishing SLI? I have seen very little testing of this which seems odd at this point. Crossfire HD3870 and SLI 8800GT trade blows from what I haves seen in small tests like expreview. Scalability wise that would mean crossfire did better. But SLi still owns the performance crown as of now.


http://en.expreview.com/?p=53

There's the full review, not just a single image showing the difference in percentage performance. Check the results for the single and sli 8800Gt...Note the difference in frames between SLI and a single 8800 GT. Than head over to the ATI crossfire 3870 and single 3870 benchmarks. Notice that crossfire nearly gets double the frames of a single 3870 in most of the benchmarks (keep in mind, SLI/Crossfire gets better performance at higher resolutions). Something SLI doesn't do very well. Nvidia SLI might be on top right now due to the 8800 GT being a overall better card. But if ATI had a card with the exact same performance as an 8800GT...It would be on top. Overall, SLI is indeed nice, but crossfire is MUCH more efficient...
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 9:24:12 PM

Yeah, that is the review I was talking about too. I'd like to see more as that's still th only one I know about.

It does scale very well at times. But we just seem to have many people(no saying you) lately who seem to think that because it scales well two HD3870's beat two 8800GT. yeah, if ATI had a single card equal to an 8800GTX, and crossfire scaled this well, then we would have a new performance crown to give out for sure. Two such cards could match three 8800GTX.
January 18, 2008 9:38:19 PM

Now with the linger of the 3870X2 coming out. I cannot wait to get my hands on 2 of thoes puppies. If 1 = 2 3870's in CF.... And the performance to match. Imagine 2 for a theroetical quad crossfire setup. If the performance matches or even if it doesnt, being able to max out everything at my native res will be quite cool. Might give the 8800GTX Tri Sli A run for its money. (Heck it blows away the 8800GTX $ wise since it will probably be 1/2 the cost for 2 X2's.. That is a guess mind you)

a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2008 9:44:42 PM

Thanks for all the help via replies. I guess I will be going to nvidia as the prices are almost equal. I am upgrading from an ( don't laugh too hard ) x800 pro.
I don't need sli or crossfire as I am not that seriously into gaming. (RTS kind of dude.)
So I take it that it comes down to the Shader clock and texturing power.
Can someone show me the shader clock and texturing power for these two cards?
Again, thanks.
January 18, 2008 10:01:49 PM

pauldh: I agree with you on that one. two 3870's are not better than two 8800 GT's. But in some titles it can go the other way, but overall, two 8800 GT's are indeed better.

soundefx: There's nothing wrong with a x800 pro ^_^...I'm on a x700 pro..>_<...LOL. so worse for me =(. Can't afford a new rig or even an upgrade right now...and this 3.2 prescottt really does need to be put to rest.

If money isn't that much of an issue, hands down get a 8800 GT. It's overall a better card. Try to nab one with an updated cooler, the single slot cooler has been know to cause quite a few problems in terms of temperature. 8800 GT > 3870.

Afterall, the r670 (3850/3870) Is still based on the r600 architecture. There are problems in terms of anti aliasing where it drastically reduces performance. It's gotten better over time with newer drivers, but it's still a big hit. If money is an issue though, it's still a fantastic card regardless of its doubts. Has a fantastic ratio in terms of price/performance. But the 8800 GT is indeed a better buy.
January 18, 2008 11:02:15 PM

I think each one is better from some point of view. If you want best performance and that's all you care about, go for the 8800 GT or, better, the 8800 GTS (G92). BUT, if you want better video quality (UVD), less noise and equal or better bang per buck, 3870 is the way to go.

I a nutshell:

Best gaming card: 8800 GTS > 8800 GT > 3870
Best all-around card (IMHO): 3870

And if you have a low-res monitor, think about the 3850... Great efficiency, great bang per buck... and good enough for light gaming.
January 18, 2008 11:09:05 PM

As I know somebody out there is going to say "why do you say UVD is better than nVIDIA, reviews with HD HQV Test said otherwise", check this:

http://www.mundodvd.com/showthread.php?t=41429

I read about this some time ago and NVIDIA said it was just a faulty driver and yaddayadda. The truth is that "faulty" driver let them pass the reviews with flying colors, but cheating.
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