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Suggestions appreciated for new build

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January 14, 2008 4:03:02 AM

I am planning on building a new computer very soon and would like some suggestions/advice. I have built several systems in the past, but none in this decade :lol:  I will use this for general use such as internet, light photo and video editing of home pictures and video, as well as a good amount of gaming. I want to be able to play all of the modern games on my new 24" monitor at the highest resolution and best frame rates possible. I will likely overclock to a mild 3.0 GHz since I have never overclocked before and want to ensure the longevity of the CPU. I have had my current computer for about 6 years and intend on keeping this system with some needed upgrades in time for quite a while. I'm not really set on anything other than the CPU so all suggestions/advice are welcome! My budget is around $1,500, but anywhere I can save money would be fine with my wife :)  OK, so here is what I have been considering:

*Cpu: http://clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A1938452
Probably the only thing I'm not buying from Newegg since they won't guarantee it will have G0 stepping. I was holding out for the new quad cores to come out. The last I heard they were supposed to be out on January 20th , but now I am hearing that will be pushed back. If any one has any info otherwise, I may wait a few weeks.

*Motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
I%u2019m considering the abit ip35 pro, asus p5k-e wifi and the gigabyte DS3R. I am leaning towards the ip35 pro since I have read rave reviews and it is supposed to come with great software to overclock, although I have heard there is a problem with vdrop with this board ( not really sure what this is though)

*GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
I am not sure if I really need the 800GTS 512 over the GT, but with a 24%u201D monitor running 1920x1200 I figured it would help. I%u2019m really not sure if I would even use the Evga step up program since it would require me spending more money and having to remove the card, be without the pc for a while and then pay to ship it to Evga if this is how it works.

*Memory : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Have read it overclocks and works well with the ip35 pro. Going with 4 gigs (2x2) so I%u2019ll likely be getting Vista 64bit, or might just use XP 32 and take the loss of some of the memory for now.

*CPU Cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Great reviews. I hear the stock heat sink/fan is not that great so for the price this cooler looks great.

*Hard drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Supposed to be very quick and will have more than enough storage space. I see Seagate has a 32mb cache as well as a 16mb cache 750GB Barracuda hard drive. It seems like on Newegg the 16mb cache is a better seller, or at least has more reviews. While I want the fastest drive for the money, I am also very concerned with reliability and longevity. Bearing this in mind what is the best drive for the money?

*DVD Drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Not sure which one yet, but OEM should be fine since I don't need any software.

*Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Definitely open to suggestions here. I now it%u2019s a matter of personal preference, but I have yet to find a reasonably priced case that I love. I hate the look of the antec 900. I am looking for a reasonably priced case that is well constructed, has good cooling and is reasonably quite.

*PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
I%u2019m between the OCZ gamestream 700W or the PC power & cooling silencer 610. Both are around the same price with the OCZ being a little bit cheaper and has a higher output, but is a tier 2.

I%u2019ll be picking up a new mouse and keyboard, but I haven%u2019t looked into those yet. As I said before, I already have the monitor and am looking for any input anyone can offer. Thanks!
January 14, 2008 5:09:36 AM

[:turpit:2]

You really did your homework, congratulations :D 

Q6600 is overkill for what you described, but the smartest choice for long-term use.

The mobos you picked are all great. Compare specs at newegg's site and pick one that has all you need. For example the aBit allows you to insert a second video card and use it with monitors #3 and even #4.

At 1920x1200 you definit;ly want the fastest card around. Right now that title is shared between the 8800GTS G92 and its overpriced siblings GTX and Ultra. Go for the 8800GTS G92. The 8800GTS G92 is quieter than the 8800GT, and IMO it's fully worth the price difference.

You described eVGA's step-up pretty well, yeah, that's how it works. Still useful for some, but in general it's not as cool as you'd expect.

The cooler you picked (Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 pro) will do fine for 3 GHz, and it's cheap and quiet and easy to install. Good choice.

Good choice of hard disk. I tend to recommend the WD7500AAKS a lot. I also like Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB. The Spinpoint is faster when handling huge files, so it's the best HDD out there for encoding videos. The only reason why I still prefer the WD7500AAKS is that Samsung hasn't been in the hard drive business for as long as WD.

The memory is a bit overkill, i.e. DDR2-800 would do fine for what you want. Still, it's a good price, so why not.

DVD: I'd pick the Samsung over the Lite-On. If you can afford a Plextor PX-810SA it's worth it.

Case: RC-690 is good. P182 meets your criteria but costs more.

PSU: I'd go with the Silencer 610W.


January 14, 2008 7:59:12 PM

Thanks for your input aevm!

I looked into the evga step up program on their website and it looks like more of a pain that it's worth. Also, from what I have read the 9800 GTS is rumored to cost over $400 without any price gouging ala the 8800GT. As such, I am now looking into the XFX PVT88GYDF4 GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB and the BFG Technologies BFG Tech BFGE88512GTSE GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB. Any opinion on these two in comparison to the evga.

For the dvd, why do you recommend the plextor over the samsung? What are the major advantages that justify the price being more than double?

Does anyone think the penryn's will be out very soon and that I should wait on this build for them?
Related resources
January 14, 2008 8:09:22 PM

Multiple smaller drivers are much faster than a single larger one. No RAID, just put the OS on one and data on the other(s).
January 14, 2008 8:16:52 PM

Nice rig, good luck with the build. The new dual cores are launching on the 20th.,who knows what they're doin' with the Quads? You said you're heart wasn't set on anything but the CPU so why wait, if the new Quads appeal to you after their release I'm sure you could always sell it or maybe even do another build(for the wife of course).
January 14, 2008 8:32:34 PM

nhobo, If I go that route, what drives would you recommend?

chuckm, Thanks!
January 14, 2008 8:43:05 PM

Agree with aevm. Go for Samsung DVD over Lite-On and the PC P&C PSU. PC P&C would have been my first choice if I hadn't gotten 2 Antec TP3's (550 and 650 w) on sale each better than 30% off in new boxes.

AC Freezer, I think, is one of the best economy HSF's available. But even with a G0 Q6600, I doubt if you will be able to get much past 3.0 GHz with all four cores loaded. At reasonable temps, I was able to get my E6600 up to "only" 3.3 GHz with one. And a Q6600 is simply a pair of E6600's in one package.
January 14, 2008 9:00:51 PM

I trust XFX, BFG and eVGA about the same, and more than other brands. I'd just look at prices, any included games, clocks. BFG will probably include a (really ugly, IMO) black t-shirt.

The Plextor is very expensive, true. It doesn't make sense for everybody. Here's how it compares to my other drive (an LG GSA-H62N):
- a bit quieter
- better burn quality (this is mostly a theoretical thing, shown in special analysis software. The LG does burn disks, and I can read them back with no errors, so I don't really think this is a serious difference)
- rips DVDs in 9 minutes instead of 25 (for a 7 GB disk)
- it does well when reading scratched disks

Agreed with nhobo about the disks. For example if you are compressing a video and you can have the source and target on different drives, things go MUCH faster and the wear and tear on the drives is much less.
WD has perpendicular magnetic recording only on the 750GB model or higher. I'd go with Seagate for smaller drives.
Look at this chart for some ideas:
http://www23.tomshardware.com/storage.html?modelx=33&model1=117&model2=676&chart=49
January 14, 2008 10:56:54 PM

The only real difference I see between the three different cards is the clock speed. The xfx has a clock speed of 650, the evga 670 and the bfg 675. I like the fact that the xfx has a double lifetime warranty, but how big of a difference will be seen with the lower clock speed. I have never overclocked before, but is this something that I could overclock easily to get to that same higher clock speed?


I guess I would only need a small drive for the OS? What drive sizes would you recommend for my uses, )S- windows XP pro or vista ultimate and for storage to be able to hold a couple of games, lots of music and pics and some videos.

I see theses two drives says they have perpendicular recording, but I thought only the larger drives had it? I would want a fast drive for both I guess, since my games would be on the storage drive and a slow drive would effect performance here as well as the OS drive. This would definitely be more expensive than the WD 750, but would the speed increase be worth the price? Thanks again for the help!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
January 14, 2008 11:35:01 PM

You won't notice a difference in real life between 650MHz and 675MHz.

Overclocking: download and run nTune, move some sliders up a bit, play for a while. If you get artifacts or crashes go back and restore to the last stable values. nTune even offers to analyze and find the best values for you.

How about this: get a WD 750 now, make a 100GB partition for Windows. Add another disk later when you have more cash. It's not a perfect solution but you do get more GB/dollar that way. The special partition for Windows will help keep OS and data separate, just like a separate physical disk would.

Edit: on second thought, if you don't have Partition Magic or similar software, make the O/S partition 200GB. If you install 10GB games in C:\Program Files you'll fill 100GB fast.
January 14, 2008 11:41:28 PM

WD 2500KS / AAKS. 3200AAKS if you want to more.
January 14, 2008 11:48:58 PM

OK, i'll get the WD 750 now, but I'd rather add the second hard drive now. Which drive would you recommend for the O/S?

Does anyone know if I should add any fans to this case, I know it has the ability to add a few. And will the silencer 61o definitely work with this case?

Edit: aevm, I just saw your last edit. If I have a second drive or a partition why would the games be installed to the c :\program files directory? Couldn't the games be installed to the second drive/partition thereby keeping the files off of the O/S drive/partition? I have never done this before so I may be entirely wrong.
January 15, 2008 12:26:53 AM

Most programs will try to install themselves on the Windows partition, but of course most of them do offer a "custom" or "advanced" install and you can tell them to go to D: instead of C: and so on. There are also some annoying programs that let you move them to D: but then also install a bunch of files on the Windows partition, maybe even under Windows's folder. Anyway, just make sure you leave enough room for Windows and its patches. Somebody was complaining yesterday in another thread that they had 50GB for Windows and it stopped working after some recent patches, out of room...

Here's a company that sells assembled PCs with the RC-690 and a Silencer 750W.
http://cgi.ebay.com/TWO-8800GTX-in-SLI-Quad-Core-3-0Ghz-Gaming-Computer-PC_W0QQitemZ180195538895QQihZ008QQcategoryZ140076QQcmdZViewItem
This means the 610W will fit too.

Here's a nice deal for another good PSU, if you're interested:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10006757

The RC-690 comes with 3 fans and room for 4 more. 7 fans are useful for 8800GTX SLI and overclocked quad. You don't really need 7, for what you are planning to build. Read through the newegg reviews of the RC-690, some will be useful. I'd just use the 3 stock fans for now, and monitor the temps of the CPU and video card with software like Coretemp and nTune. If the temps are acceptable, there's no point in spending money and increasing the noise with more fans.
January 15, 2008 1:15:29 AM

I've been looking for the second hard drive, but am unsure which would be the best one for the O/S with the WD 750 being for storage/programs. Which drive would you recommend? Also, thanks for the power supply recommendation. DO you think the corsair is adequate for future expansion at 550W, and is it a better deal than the PC&C Silencer 610? I don't mind spending a little more for better quality and peace of mind knowing it will grow with my system. That's what I liked about the OCZ gamexstream 700. It's a tier2 and has more than enough power to last and is made by PC&C, but I have been reading some reviews saying the fan is very loud. Why would you not recommend this PSU?
January 15, 2008 1:31:45 AM

WD3200AAKS sounds good.

OK, if you have the money for the Silencer go for it, it's the best.

January 15, 2008 4:33:41 AM


Thanks again aevm and everyone else that helped. Here is my final build, with everything coming from newegg
except the CPU. If anyone sees any problems please let me know before I order. Also, I am looking for an
inexpensive gaming mouse and fairly basic keyboard if anyone has any suggestions.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 Stepping Kentsfield 2.40GHz 8MB L2 LGA 775 Processor Retail BX80562Q6600 SLACR
$277.99


SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B - OEM
Item #: N82E16827151153
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
$30.99


COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Item #: N82E16811119137
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

$35.00 Mail-in Rebate

$79.99



Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822136074
Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy

$79.99



Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822136131
Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy

-$5.00 Instant

$159.99
$154.99


XFX PVT88GYDF4 GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card

XFX PVT88GYDF4 GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814150261
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

-$10.00 Instant
$20.00 Mail-in Rebate

$329.99
$319.99


PC Power & Cooling Silencer 610 EPS12V EPS12V 610W Continuous @ 40°C Power Supply

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 610 EPS12V EPS12V 610W Continuous @ 40°C Power Supply - Retail
Item #: N82E16817703005
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

-$80.00 Instant


$199.99
$119.99




G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ

G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ - Retail
Item #: N82E16820231145
Return Policy: Memory (Modules, USB) Return Policy

-$35.00 Instant


$149.99
$114.99




ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard

ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813127030
Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy


$30.00 Mail-in Rebate

$179.99




ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler

ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler - Retail
Item #: N82E16835186134
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

-$15.00 Instant


$36.99
$21.99
January 15, 2008 5:23:46 AM

You're very welcome. This will be a very nice build :D 

Mouse & keyboard: wired through USB is better than wireless when it comes to gaming, and cheaper too.

I like my Logitech LX3, but I'm sure you can find something else just as good and cheaper than $27. Also, it took a while to adapt to it because it's smaller than I expected. I think it's designed for small girls :lol:  :lol: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104019

No clue about keyboards, sorry.
January 15, 2008 7:26:44 PM

Does anyone know of a cheap gaming keyboard and mouse. I have looked at the Logitech G5 and g11/g15 and they seem very expensive. I currently have a Logitech wireless mouse and keyboard that does it quite cut it, so I'm looking for a wired alternative.

Could I get away with purchasing the OEM version of the Q6600? Looks like it comes with nothing other than the chip, but I am buying the after market cooler so I won't need the heat sink and fan, right? Anything else that I would miss out on with the OEM?

Will I need a thermal compound for mounting the cooler to the cpu?

EDIT: Ok , I see this comes with Arctic Freeze compound already on it. Is this any good or should I get arctic silver 5 instead and just remove the Arctic Freeze Compound?
Looks like the rebate on the Coolermaster RC-690 case has expired at newegg so I am going to have to look elsewhere to get it. Zip Zoom Fly has it for $40 after rebate so I'll probably get it there. How are they to deal with in case I have any problems?

Will I need a fan controller to control the case fans and CPU cooler fan, or can these all be controlled through the motherboard some how? I know the GPU fan is able to be controlled though the motherboard.
January 16, 2008 2:23:40 AM

Anyone?

aevm: I see you recommend Seagates for smaller drives. Why do you not recommend the Seagate 750GB? I was looking into the Seagate 320GB which claims to have the perpendicular recording and the 500GB 32m cache which has the second generation perpendicular recording and the larger cache. Seagate also has the better warranty. Are these good drives?
January 16, 2008 3:45:09 AM

Yes, they are good drives. You can trust either Seagate or WD, they have been the leaders for a long time. Whatever you find on sale :) 

January 16, 2008 6:17:24 PM

carquote said:
Does anyone know of a cheap gaming keyboard and mouse. I have looked at the Logitech G5 and g11/g15 and they seem very expensive. I currently have a Logitech wireless mouse and keyboard that does it quite cut it, so I'm looking for a wired alternative.

Could I get away with purchasing the OEM version of the Q6600? Looks like it comes with nothing other than the chip, but I am buying the after market cooler so I won't need the heat sink and fan, right? Anything else that I would miss out on with the OEM?

Will I need a thermal compound for mounting the cooler to the cpu?

EDIT: Ok , I see this comes with Arctic Freeze compound already on it. Is this any good or should I get arctic silver 5 instead and just remove the Arctic Freeze Compound?
Looks like the rebate on the Coolermaster RC-690 case has expired at newegg so I am going to have to look elsewhere to get it. Zip Zoom Fly has it for $40 after rebate so I'll probably get it there. How are they to deal with in case I have any problems?

Will I need a fan controller to control the case fans and CPU cooler fan, or can these all be controlled through the motherboard some how? I know the GPU fan is able to be controlled though the motherboard.


Can anyone answer any of these questions please. I'd like to order soon. Thanks!
January 17, 2008 9:29:09 PM

Can any one comment on whether I will need a fan controller to control the case fans or if they can be controlled through the motherboard.
January 18, 2008 2:22:55 AM

please let us know how you like it, i was going to post a topic on what people thought about a build i was thinking of doing. well ..... LoL you picked the same case, mobo, cpu, HD's and GC. im just not going to max out my Ram at 8gig right off the bat. but after reading all the great input people have givin you i may have second thoughts
January 18, 2008 3:15:43 AM

Yeah, I saw another post after mine where the poster had pretty much the exact same setup :D  I suppose for anyone that does their research these are some of the best components for the money. I am now pondering whether I will just get the one WD7500AAKS or get a separate 320AKKS for the O/S. I am wondering if since the 320GB, where the O/S will reside, is slower than the 750GB if I will see that big of a gain by having the second drive. Also, If only the O/S will be on that smaller drive I can't see needing anywhere near that amount of space, although much smaller drives are not much cheaper. Good luck with your build!
January 18, 2008 1:11:05 PM

I am actually very close to clicking the Buy button on almost the exact same components. I was just holding off to see if there was any possible combination that would give me more bang for the same buck.

The more I think about it, the more I just want to buy it asap.

I do have one question though:

Why XFX for the GPU? I have nothing against them, just curious with the prices by different manufacturers being so close, if it was their reputation or customer serivce? Or just personal success with them?
January 18, 2008 1:42:53 PM

Really no reason other than the price, $300 after rebate and free shipping, and their double lifetime warranty. I am not completely sure myself which one I want and have never used xfx, bfg or evga. I am also still wavering on memory and hard drive. I hear the micron chips are better memory, but the gskill I selected are not microns. I am trying to find a 4gb 2 x 2 ddr800 or 1000 that are microns and would be good for my use. As far as the hard drive, I am having this issue I stated in my last post. What hard drive(s) and memory did you select? Good luck with your build.
January 20, 2008 2:08:49 AM

this is the memory i chose was http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...

like i said above. i feel i dont have a big reason to max out at 8gig right off the bat, i could see maxing it if my HD's start getting full. my big problem is Vid card and HD's. i just find myself searching and searching
January 20, 2008 2:43:47 AM

Dan_P, that memory looks great and an excellent price. If you can afford it, and will be using vista, I highly recommend going with 4gig of memory. For only another #38 after rebate you will definitely see a difference. That is why I want to go with the 4gig of 2 x 2 memory so that I have the 2 other slots available for upgrading in the future. I am having the same problem with deciding on a hard drive and video card as well. I have it narrowed down, but the more I read the more confused I get. There are so many reviews, both positive and negative, and I think they are all good parts. It's just a matter of what's the best? And that's what's leading to my indecisiveness.
January 20, 2008 4:35:41 AM

carquote said:
Dan_P, that memory looks great and an excellent price. If you can afford it, and will be using vista, I highly recommend going with 4gig of memory. For only another #38 after rebate you will definitely see a difference. That is why I want to go with the 4gig of 2 x 2 memory so that I have the 2 other slots available for upgrading in the future. I am having the same problem with deciding on a hard drive and video card as well. I have it narrowed down, but the more I read the more confused I get. There are so many reviews, both positive and negative, and I think they are all good parts. It's just a matter of what's the best? And that's what's leading to my indecisiveness.



Well i did order x2 so it will be 4 gig total. My problem with the HD issue is do i want to go 2 big HD's like 750 gig or 500 gig or do i want to do a combo like 100 gig for just my OS and other programs that i will no be removing, then go with a 250 gig for my movie editting system and photos editting and music for my ipod. then have 1 more HD for just games. or just get 4 350 gig HD's and run a raid system ( wich even after i read about RAID im still confused )

I will be doing Vista, i want to get the 64bit. i hear there are less problems then the 32 bit.

Now for a Vid card i have no clue. what i dont understand is what is the difference with the GeForce Cards? seems alof of companys make one Asus, BFG, XFX, EVGA and MSI i do want a 8800 but i dont know wich it better then the other.

WoW im such a noob when it comes to this computer stuff, i just know i DO NOT want to buy another store bought system again

this is the monitor i am getting
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
January 20, 2008 6:45:37 AM

I would get two WD7500AAKS and make a partition for Windows, one for games, one or more for files I create, etc. But that's just me, I'm too lazy to bother with lots of small disks and I need a lot of space.

I'm not familiar with that Gateway monitor, but I've read some pretty negative reviews for other Gateway monitors recently. How about the Samsung 245BW, do you like that one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001234

The best brands for GeForce are eVGA, BFG and XFX, IMO. You definitely want an 8800 for a resolution of 1920x1200. The Silencer 610W will support adding a second 8800GTS G92 later, but the IP35Pro won't. I'd replace the motherboard with this one:
EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188013

I am a big fan of the IP35Pro, and I usually advise against SLI, but the thing is, at 1920x1200, you will need SLI eventually. Don't even think of playing Crysis at that resolution with the eye candy maxed on a single card. Future games may be even worse.

January 20, 2008 3:23:46 PM

aevm said:
I am a big fan of the IP35Pro, and I usually advise against SLI, but the thing is, at 1920x1200, you will need SLI eventually. Don't even think of playing Crysis at that resolution with the eye candy maxed on a single card. Future games may be even worse.


This might be why sales of PC games are down and people seem to be moving to consoles for gaming :sarcastic:  How is it that a PS3 can have such amazing graphics and play on huge screens without so much as a hiccup! And for such a substantially lower price. I'm totally confused now. The EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA supposedly has issues with the memory controller and I have read a lot of bad reviews with DOA boards. I also would like to have the ability to upgrade to a Yorkfield one day, and I don't know if the evga board will work with them. I really liked the ip35 pro, but if you think the 1 8800gts won't be adequate. Do you think if I steped up to the 9800 when they come out that I could get away with just the one card? Any idea what the 9800 series card comparable to the gts will cost? Thanks for the advice.
January 20, 2008 4:47:43 PM

aevm said:


I'm not familiar with that Gateway monitor, but I've read some pretty negative reviews for other Gateway monitors recently. How about the Samsung 245BW, do you like that one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001234



That did look nice, But there isnt enough ports in the back of the samsung. i have used this gateway befor. its alittle over priced IMO But so is the rest of this computer LoL.

So i guess what i am to understand is just bite the bullet and get 2 8800gts or 8800gt's? and add another 400 dallors to the cost lol i belive i read that the abit can run dule vid cards. I just dont know if i will need dule vid cards for the fact im not playing any of the high end games. but then again... i know i will want to see what my computer can do.... kinda like buying a new car, you got to see how it will handle and how fast it will go :pt1cable: 


January 21, 2008 12:08:42 AM

The IP35Pro has physical room for two video cards, but one of the PCI-E x16 slots will in fact run at x4 speed. That will hurt its performance. Also, you can't do SLI at all with the IP35Pro.

If you get an eVGA 8800GTS G92, then you have 3 months to decide if a step-up is needed or not. The 9800GTX is supposed to cost $450 and be released in March. There are risks, because these prices and dates are just rumors. It's also not clear yet if the 9800GTX will work at its best (or at all) in PCI-E 1 slots. X38 and 780i have PCI-E 2, but P35 doesn't.

More rumors:
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ0MCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQzOSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

I really don't know what is best for you here. For me, playing mostly RPGs, IP35Pro+8800GTS G92 would be just fine even at 1920x1200. For Crysis though, a 780i motherboard with an 8800GTS G92 card is better, because you'd be able to add a second video card or step-up the existing card.

There's also the option to tell Crysis to run at a lower resolution, you know... You don't HAVE to play at 1920x1200
just because your monitor can handle it.
January 22, 2008 1:25:31 AM

Multi GPU Support: ATI CrossFire

i was under the impression that ATI CrossFire ment 2 vid cards.

the confusion lives on.
January 22, 2008 1:46:22 AM

Dan_P said:
Multi GPU Support: ATI CrossFire
i was under the impression that ATI CrossFire ment 2 vid cards.
the confusion lives on.


That means that crossfire, which is the competitor and ATI equivelant to Nvidia's SLI, is supported. While p35 boards such as the IP35 pro and x38 boards support crossfire, or 2 ATI cards or 1 Nvidia card such as the 8800, they do not allow 2 Nvidia cards AKA SLI. To get SLI you need an nvidia chipset such as the 680i or 780i. I hope I have this right :pt1cable: 
January 22, 2008 1:58:57 AM

ahhhhh i think ima just shoot myself.
January 22, 2008 3:34:51 AM

aevm said:
Somebody was complaining yesterday in another thread that they had 50GB for Windows and it stopped working after some recent patches, out of room...


Must be Vista or some other problem. I have XP on a PC I have had for 3 years and my C drive has only 16GB used. I have done most of the patches - all of the critical ones but skipped a few of the others. And it is a Dell on which I never bothered to clean off most of the bloatware other than the obvious. The 16GB includes 3 GB in the application file.
January 25, 2008 5:28:12 PM

aevm said:
There's also the option to tell Crysis to run at a lower resolution, you know... You don't HAVE to play at 1920x1200 just because your monitor can handle it.


So I still have not ordered, and am more confused then ever! I really liked the price/performance/features of the ip35 pro, but am concerned with it possibly not working with any future nvidia cards such as the 9800. I really can't afford to go the 780i route and then buy another 8800gts. I was hoping that the 9800 series would have a card priced comparably to the 8800gts for step-up. From what I have read though, I only hear mention of a 9800x2 and 9800GTX, both of are expected to be way more than the 8800gts.

Do you think the 8800gts will be okay to last me a while if I drop the resolution down to 1680x1050, and would it still look good on a 24" monitor?

I am also flip flopping on the hard drives and psu. I am now looking at the corsair 620hx, Thermaltake W0106RU Toughpower 700W, and other modular power supplies that have bottom mounted fans. Would this be better with the bottom vent for the psu on the CM RC-690? For the hard drives, I keep going between the segate and WD drives. I want to get 2 drives for and don't need a ton of storage. Can any one offer some clarity to my confusion? :pt1cable: 
January 25, 2008 6:21:18 PM

The IP35Pro will work with 9800GTX. It may not work at its absolute best, i.e. you might get 20% (or 7% or 27%) fewer fps that it can deliver, but it would still be fantastic. Think of it this way: an 8800GTX used in a PCI-E 1.0a slot at x8 loses something like 7%, give or take, depending on game and resolution. That means the 8800GTX uses only a little more than the x8 1.0a slot offers. It then means it barely uses more than half the bandwidth of a PCI-E 1.0a x16 slot. I expect the 9800GTX to require a lot more bandwidth than the 8800GTX, but if it's less than double then it will still fit in the PCI-E 1.0a slot without losing performance.

To see what the 8800GTS G92 512MB can do at your resolution use these charts:
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=707&model2=706&chart=297
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=707&model2=706&chart=298

1600x1200 has 8% more pixels than 1680x1050, so you can multiply those fps with 1.08 to be more accurate. The 8800GTS G92 512MB typically comes between the 8800GTS 640MB (slower ) and the 8800GTX (faster). You should expect about 28 fps in Oblivion at 1680x1050, for example. Less in Crysis, if you keep the settings high. More than 28 fs in almost any other game I can think of. You really shouldn't worry - that card is really good for 1680x1050.
At 1920x1200 (i.e. 24" monitor at native resolution) expect close to 25 fps in Oblivion, etc.

Whether 1680x1050 looks good on a 24" monitor: tough to answer. Depends on the monitor. Go to Circuit City or Best Buy or whatever you have nearby and experiment. On some monitors if you don't use the native resolutions you get ugly-looking fonts.

The 9800GTX and GX2 are supposed to cost $450, but this is just rumor. I'm sure it depends, among other things, on the HD 3870X2 (how much it costs, how good it is, how many can AMD produce, etc.)

The 620HX is a very nice PSU. Avoid the Toughpower, there have been reports of issues with it and 8800 cards.

Seagate has 5 year warranties, WD only 3 year. Also, looking at this chart, Seagate has the highest rated small drive, the Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250GB.
http://www23.tomshardware.com/storage.html?modelx=33&model1=117&model2=676&chart=49



January 25, 2008 7:15:24 PM

Thanks for the great info aevm!

I know how many fps are acceptable is subjective, but in your opinion what is the minimum acceptable fps? I am concerned that the 8800gts will be unable to play any upcoming games well. I need this system to last as long as possible and seeing how games like Crysis are making top end systems to their knees I wonder how long I will be able to play new games at decent fps even with the resolution turned down to 1680x1050. I also wonder what the point of having a 24" monitor is when I will have to lower the resolution to that of a 22" for many games.

Will the corsair 620hx be better than the silencer 610 since it is modular and it has the bottom fan? Would the fan go facing down to vent out of the system with the bottom vent on the rc-690? I also see the OCZ GameXStream 700 Watt has a bottom fan and is only $100 at newegg. Is the corsair better since it is modular?

The chart you provided for the hard drives doesn't have info on the Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB and the Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB. Those are the two large drives I am considering. For the 2 smaller drives I am considering the Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS and the Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB. The Seagate 320gb has the perpendicular recording and s only %5 more than the WD so I am leaning towards that drive although some of it's reviews are quite scary with weird noises and doa units. I guess that can happen with any drive though. Any preferences between these drives.

Thanks again for all of your help. It's greatly appreciated!
January 25, 2008 7:45:13 PM

I've played Diablo 2 at 25 fps for several years, no problems, but that's an RPG. For a shooter game like Crysis or Half-Life you want 30 fps or more, but that's mostly from what I've read in reviews. I stink at shooter games and I don't play them much.

Ideally you'd get 60 fps. More than that doesn't really make a difference for most people, and most LCD monitors are limited to that anyway by the refresh rate.

There's still a point in a 24" monitor even if you have to play the most demanding games at a lower resolution. When you surf or watch movies or do Office work or whatever, the higher resolution will be useful.

Looking at the images, I'd say either Silencer 610W or 620HX would be fine. That is, the hot air can easily get out regardless of where the PSU fan is. It's probably better with the Silencer if there's plenty of room at the back of the computer.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?CurImage=11-119-137-21.jpg&Image=11-119-137-21.jpg%2c11-119-137-22.jpg%2c11-119-137-02.jpg%2c11-119-137-17.jpg%2c11-119-137-03.jpg%2c11-119-137-04.jpg%2c11-119-137-05.jpg%2c11-119-137-06.jpg%2c11-119-137-07.jpg%2c11-119-137-08.jpg%2c11-119-137-09.jpg%2c11-119-137-10.jpg%2c11-119-137-11.jpg%2c11-119-137-12.jpg%2c11-119-137-13.jpg%2c11-119-137-14.jpg%2c11-119-137-15.jpg%2c11-119-137-16.jpg&S7ImageFlag=0&Depa=0&Description=COOLER+MASTER+RC-690-KKN1-GP+Black+Computer+Case
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/CoolerMaster/RC_690/4.html
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=40684

I just like the reviews of the 620HX and Silencer more than those of the GameXstream, but the GameXstream is very good too. Sure, if it saves you some money and you're at the limit, it's a good option.

For the large drive I prefer the WD7500AAKS, but you may not need 750GB. For the small one I'm the wrong person to ask. I haven't studied or used them that much. Either way, it's probably best to stick with both WD or both Seagate - less software to install/fewer drivers to worry about.

January 25, 2008 9:15:26 PM

Wow, I havent played Diablo 2 in years, but if was demanding enough to only be played at 25fps I'm getting really worried :ange:  It's mind boggling to think I'll be spending all this money to have a system that will only be able to play modern games at around 30fps at best. And who knows what is around the corner.....

How much of a difference would sli add in terms of fps. If I got a 780i board and later on added another 8800gts approximately what could I expect?

I am really torn between the silencer 610 and 620hx. The corsair is only $10 more than the silencer, but that is after a $200 MIR while the silencer doesn't require any MIR. Does the extra 10w, modular design and bottom fan seem worth the price to you. I don't mind speinding a little more for a better unit. Of the two, with the RC-690 being used, which one would you choose?
January 26, 2008 12:38:58 AM

Get the 620HX from buy.com, it's $20 less than at newegg. No clue how Google checkout works but you might save another $10 that way.
http://www.buy.com/prod/corsair-620w-sli-certified-modular-atx-power-supply/q/loc/101/203270718.html

Actually, about Diablo, I've been told it limits itself to 25 fps in the code. It's kind of obvious, because the 8800GTX OC2 at 800x600 gets way more than that even in Crysis, let alone in games from 2001.

SLI benefits: it depends on game, resolution, settings, driver version, CPU, GPU, etc etc. You can get some idea by using these URLs in two browsers. In each browser pick the same card type and game and resolution. One browser will give you the fps for single card and one for SLI.
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=707&model2=706&chart=297
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_sli2007.html?modelx=33&model1=805&model2=804&chart=357

For example in Oblivion at 1600x1200 the 8800GTS 640 MB gets 23.6 alone and 44.8 in SLI. The 8800GTX gets 32.5 alone, and 61.2 in SLI. At 1920x1200, the numbers are 20.4 ==> 38.5 and 28.7==>53.8

This is probably nVidia's favorite example because here SLI gets almost 100% gains. In other games though it's not nearly as great. Some games don't even support SLI at all and you'd only get more noise and heat from the second card, no additional speed. Other games are limited by the CPu and again adding a second video card doesn't do much good. Example: FSX is stuck at 22 fps with one GTS, one GTX, two GTS, even two GTX.
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=707&model2=706&chart=293
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_sli2007.html?modelx=33&model1=805&model2=804&chart=353


January 29, 2008 4:00:01 AM

So far I bought the case (CM RC-690) and CPU (Corsair 620HX). Still need to buy everything else.

I am now considering getting a better CPU cooler to overclock higher than I initially planned. I would like to get to around 3.2-3.4 now and possible 3.6 in the future. I know the Thermalright Ultra-120 and Tuniq Tower are both very good, but they seem VERY large and I'm concerned with them fitting my case and not blocking the top fans. Any thoughts on the Thermalright Ultra-90 or any other cooler that meet my needs better?

Seems like the only thing holding me back at this point is the GPU dilema. At 1920x1200 I know I would benefit from sli, but can't afford to tack ~$100+ on the cost of the ip35 pro for a 780i plus another ~350 for a second gpu. I might just have to "suffer" with a 8800gts 512 at this resolution or game at a lower resolution. I have also considered stepping up to a better card when they are released, but I had hoped for a card to replace the 8800gts that was closer in cost than the expected $450 9800x2. After paying for shipping both ways plus the ~100 difference this is an expensive solution and I don't know how well this card will perform with the ip35 pro. Seems like this is a bad time to buy since and that software is surpassing hardware with no reasonably priced hardware that can play modern games well at this resolution.
January 29, 2008 4:44:46 AM

If your planning to go with just one graphics card on a 24" inch monitor you might find yourself having to drop way below native resolution just to be able to get playable frame rates on half of all the games out there right now. Many that go with a 24" inch monitor almost always know that SLI is a must if you plan on having high resolution gaming with most graphics settings on high with lots of eye candie turned on.

With my 3.6GHz E6600 and my 8800GTX with the rest of my system in my signature playing COD 4 with everything max out, It stays above 60 FPS at 1280x1024. I really would like to see how my system would perform on a 24" inch with the same ingame setting as on my 19" inch monitor. One thing is certain, if I decide to go with a 24" inch monitor I will have no choice but to go SLI. Games are going to get more and more demanding as time go's on with DX10.1, its not going to get any easier thats for sure. Its something to think about though. :) 


January 29, 2008 1:05:38 PM

carquote said:
So far I bought the case (CM RC-690) and CPU (Corsair 620HX). Still need to buy everything else.

I am now considering getting a better CPU cooler to overclock higher than I initially planned. I would like to get to around 3.2-3.4 now and possible 3.6 in the future. I know the Thermalright Ultra-120 and Tuniq Tower are both very good, but they seem VERY large and I'm concerned with them fitting my case and not blocking the top fans. Any thoughts on the Thermalright Ultra-90 or any other cooler that meet my needs better?

Seems like the only thing holding me back at this point is the GPU dilema. At 1920x1200 I know I would benefit from sli, but can't afford to tack ~$100+ on the cost of the ip35 pro for a 780i plus another ~350 for a second gpu. I might just have to "suffer" with a 8800gts 512 at this resolution or game at a lower resolution. I have also considered stepping up to a better card when they are released, but I had hoped for a card to replace the 8800gts that was closer in cost than the expected $450 9800x2. After paying for shipping both ways plus the ~100 difference this is an expensive solution and I don't know how well this card will perform with the ip35 pro. Seems like this is a bad time to buy since and that software is surpassing hardware with no reasonably priced hardware that can play modern games well at this resolution.


You should take a look at Thermalright Ultima-90 (available at www.ncixus.com and reviewed at http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3068&p=2). It is smaller than the Thermalright Ultra models and still very good.

For the video card, 1920x1200 is a very demanding resolution and you will need at least an 8800GT IMO. Look at the new HD 3870 X2, it's the fastest video card available today. It even beats the 8800 Ultra in some games.
January 29, 2008 1:10:25 PM

Thanks systemlord. That kinda puts it in perspective for me, when you are playing at 1280x1024 with a GTX :)  It looks like my only option is to drop down to a 22" monitor which is a shame because I already bought a 245bw at a great price. Does anyone know if a lower resolution looks better on a smaller monitor since it is closer to it's native resolution than on a larger monitor, i.e does 1440x900 or 1680x1050 look better on a 19" or 20-22" wide screen than on my 24"? Just wondering how it would look if I kept my monitor an played at a much lower resolution. What is the best 22" monitor for gaming? From the way this sounds I may not be able to game at all with this system in a few months :( 
January 29, 2008 1:22:52 PM

Why not just try the 245BW at various resolutions. I'm sure some will look OK.
!