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New Idea for a processor fan for overclocking

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July 23, 2008 4:23:13 AM

This is an Idea that I have had for about 4 months and just got around to drawing up the idea. It is four fans connected together in a cube and a top plate to control air flow down towards the processor. I want to do 4 - 4500 rpm fans. I hope the power of a 18000 RPM Fan (4X4500 RPM). One of those fans kick out 54 CFM, then that should be close to 200 CFM. As long as all fans are the same speed and the top plate is on then all the air should be force towards the weakest point which is the processor heatsink. Look at the picture and tell me what you think.



More about : idea processor fan overclocking

July 23, 2008 5:09:40 AM

You might be able to do something like that, with this cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
(it's big enough for 4x 120mm fans) you might need to make your own mounts tho (the top looks like nearly solid sheet of aluminium). I'd probably put the fans in a:

Pull
P P
u u
l s
l h
Push
July 23, 2008 5:13:55 AM

That's not really what he meant though. I think he meant more of a cooler like the stock cooler, where it pushes the air downward. All fans would push in, and force the air down over the cooler. He's just hoping to get 4 times the airflow.

As for if it would work or not, I'm not really sure. It'd be interesting to see some tests done on it though.
July 23, 2008 8:15:29 AM

i think he want to cool the processor by forcing the air flow towards the processor(aka brute force cooling method). but OP i want you to know that cooling the actual heatsink is far more efficient then cooling the CPU "itself". because the heatsink will have better thermal conductivity then air.

you havent mention any sort or form of heatsink? you are not going to attempt what i said above are you?
July 23, 2008 2:06:57 PM

iluvgillgill said:
i think he want to cool the processor by forcing the air flow towards the processor(aka brute force cooling method). but OP i want you to know that cooling the actual heatsink is far more efficient then cooling the CPU "itself". because the heatsink will have better thermal conductivity then air.

you havent mention any sort or form of heatsink? you are not going to attempt what i said above are you?


No, I'd take a thermaltake copper heatsink with the 100 thin fins with the fan on top. I would unscrew the fan and attach the fan mod to the top of the heatsink.
July 23, 2008 2:29:52 PM

IH8U said:
You might be able to do something like that, with this cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
(it's big enough for 4x 120mm fans) you might need to make your own mounts tho (the top looks like nearly solid sheet of aluminium). I'd probably put the fans in a:


Pull
P P
u u
l s
l h
Push

This is how it would look
July 23, 2008 2:36:40 PM

You're wasting a lot of energy by shoving air against itself. Forcing one stream against the other cancels some of that energy, which just means your fans are working against eachother. It will naturally be forced out the open hole (at a reduced speed than the combined theoretical), however, you're going to get a lot of choas at the point where the streams converge. The only benefit I can see is the noise, maybe slower fans with air against air would make a less annoying sound than one high speed fan. Could be good for the silent PC crowd, but I wouldn't count on OCers to jump on it.
July 23, 2008 2:42:15 PM

well with added air ducting so that each fan only blows air onto 1/4 of the heat sink may help in cutting down on noise when the stream converges.
July 23, 2008 2:43:29 PM

Just a thought... there are lots of companies with lots of engineers and lots of resources to develope and refine CPU coolers... You are really not likely to come up with (and be able to build suitably) something better then those guys for near the cost. They are able to amertize their R&D costs through the volume of units sold. By the time you work the kinks out (assuming you'll be able to manufacture this with as much quality control as you would like) you are going to spend mega amounts of money.
July 23, 2008 2:46:01 PM

i would call this design a total failure.because there is nowhere for the "waste" air to escape hence it will "block" the airflow and create a equal pressure inside the cube hence no air movement.
July 23, 2008 2:47:55 PM

Ah, but the fact of the matter is we're not talking about trying to create a 45nm processor here. If a kid can make Halo weapons out of cardboard I think mtyler can slap a few fans together.
July 23, 2008 2:53:48 PM

iluvgillgill said:
i would call this design a total failure.because there is nowhere for the "waste" air to escape hence it will "block" the airflow and create a equal pressure inside the cube hence no air movement.

The waste air exit out of the sides of the heatsink. The cube sits on top of the heatsink not around the heatsink.
July 23, 2008 3:00:59 PM

the problem i see with this is that there would be a lot of airflow issues within the middle of the device. the air is being pulled in and pushed out in so many directions, and after a certain point, the air just can't actually go anywhere.
July 23, 2008 3:03:11 PM

I like how no one is addressing my points. Complex R&D... not quick, not cheap, not easy. If the purpose is to increase an OC, you would be better off spending that money on a higher end CPU, leave the stock cooler and get a better result out of that for less $$$. =)
July 23, 2008 3:04:26 PM

alright now i see what you mean.

since you are having high noises why dont you make a duct where you can put 120mm high speed fan(those delta ones) and achieve the same cfm but possibly lower noises.:) 
July 23, 2008 3:05:43 PM

Nik_I said:
the problem i see with this is that there would be a lot of airflow issues within the middle of the device. the air is being pulled in and pushed out in so many directions, and after a certain point, the air just can't actually go anywhere.

All Fans are faced inward. So all air flow is inward. There will be a top plate to prevent air from going up and the heatsink will be at the bottom which show be the only way for the air to go.
July 23, 2008 3:08:50 PM

It sounds to me like you are convinced this is a good idea. The logical extention of that is to do it and see what happens. My guess is that you will see a lesser result then if you went out and got a good cooler from a reputable company. Only one way to find out though. Post back and let us know what happed.
July 23, 2008 3:09:18 PM

hairycat101 said:
I like how no one is addressing my points. Complex R&D... not quick, not cheap, not easy. If the purpose is to increase an OC, you would be better off spending that money on a higher end CPU, leave the stock cooler and get a better result out of that for less $$$. =)

I got 10 - 4500rpm 80mm fans from a auction for 30 bucks. It would take 1 hour to construct the Mod. Not much money or time involved.
July 23, 2008 3:10:33 PM

Then I only have 1 hour (plus the testing time) to see if you are right. What is this in comparason to? Stock cooler? Overclocks involved? Boredom?
July 23, 2008 3:13:03 PM

hairycat101 said:
It sounds to me like you are convinced this is a good idea. The logical extention of that is to do it and see what happens. My guess is that you will see a lesser result then if you went out and got a good cooler from a reputable company. Only one way to find out though. Post back and let us know what happed.
Okay, I'll post back
July 23, 2008 3:29:10 PM

looking forward to see the result.but im not so positive about this to be honest.SORRY!
July 23, 2008 3:43:38 PM

Since the channels for the air to flow thru are so small they air must be moving at an incredible rate.
July 23, 2008 5:32:03 PM

lasttarget said:
Since the channels for the air to flow thru are so small they air must be moving at an incredible rate.

Usually small fans = loud fans... especially if they are moving fast and pumping out lots of CFM.
a c 379 à CPUs
a c 140 K Overclocking
July 23, 2008 5:39:14 PM

It's not going to work. Once the air has cooled the cpu heat sink, where is it going to go? Right back to the inputs. Without exiting the case, the hot air will just recirculate, getting hotter and hotter. For maximum cooling, get a high cfm (130) fan that pushes air through a tower heat sink and out the back of the case.
July 23, 2008 6:23:29 PM

i think there are enough people that agree the idea wont work.

for cooling you need FLOW of air not bunch of air pushes each other which is what you idea is all about. i think the air thats coming out of the cube will be smaller then just a single fan that blows at a single direction.
July 23, 2008 6:41:35 PM

Geofelt and iluvgillgill, let's wait until he gets back with us. Maybe he has something that Thermaltake, Zalman, Asus, Tuniq, Coolermaster, etc hasn't thought of.
July 23, 2008 6:45:01 PM

alright i will wait and see.but your view?
July 23, 2008 6:48:15 PM

To everyone that is saying it won't work or telling this guy not to do it, you're all idiots. Its like telling AMD, well don't bother trying to make better processors because Intel can spend more money in R&D than you can. I say go for it. The worst that happens is it doesn't work....oh no....but if it works, you have a sick ass cooler to show off to people and most importantly, you made it yourself.

For the people that say the air will have nowhere to go, I think the fans won't completely surround the heatsink but be a little above it so the bottom of the heatsink is exposed hence giving the air a place to escape. I was going to suggest placing a 5th fan at the top blowing in also instead of the plate.

Also, the hot air will not just recirculate and keep getting hotter. Intel and AMD stock coolers both work in this same way. They blow air towards the CPU and the hot air comes out the sides of the heatsink.
July 23, 2008 6:50:02 PM

iluvgillgill said:
alright i will wait and see.but your view?


My view? Um... I am guessing that there is a reason all of the high end companies whose sole existance is to make computer parts cooler, isn't going with this style of cooling.
July 23, 2008 6:55:56 PM

jeb1517 said:
To everyone that is saying it won't work or telling this guy not to do it, you're all idiots. Its like telling AMD, well don't bother trying to make better processors because Intel can spend more money in R&D than you can. I say go for it. The worst that happens is it doesn't work....oh no....but if it works, you have a sick ass cooler to show off to people and most importantly, you made it yourself.

For the people that say the air will have nowhere to go, I think the fans won't completely surround the heatsink but be a little above it so the bottom of the heatsink is exposed hence giving the air a place to escape. I was going to suggest placing a 5th fan at the top blowing in also instead of the plate.

Also, the hot air will not just recirculate and keep getting hotter. Intel and AMD stock coolers both work in this same way. They blow air towards the CPU and the hot air comes out the sides of the heatsink.


Dear Jeb, I hope you learn to read some day. I think reading will be a skill that will serve you well throughout your life. Please have someone read to you the other posts so that you will see that other posters have given critisisms but have encouraged him to try.

As a side note, he will not be able to say that he made this himself. He would have to make the heatsink for that claim. REALLY doubt he is engineering and constructing his own heatsink.
July 23, 2008 6:58:19 PM

jeb1517 said:
To everyone that is saying it won't work or telling this guy not to do it, you're all idiots. Its like telling AMD, well don't bother trying to make better processors because Intel can spend more money in R&D than you can. I say go for it. The worst that happens is it doesn't work....oh no....but if it works, you have a sick ass cooler to show off to people and most importantly, you made it yourself.

For the people that say the air will have nowhere to go, I think the fans won't completely surround the heatsink but be a little above it so the bottom of the heatsink is exposed hence giving the air a place to escape. I was going to suggest placing a 5th fan at the top blowing in also instead of the plate.

Also, the hot air will not just recirculate and keep getting hotter. Intel and AMD stock coolers both work in this same way. They blow air towards the CPU and the hot air comes out the sides of the heatsink.


think there is no direction of air flow create by the fan.its only because all the other side is blocked so the air HAD to go that way. and if there is only little gap in the heatsink base it will create what they called back pressure the slow the flow of air. that alone will have small airflow.

and the heatsink could also ruin the airflow inside the case because he is using some strong fans to get air from 4 direction including PSU,Memory,NB+graphics card which surrounds the cooler and It will work against the back case fan which is blowing in the other direction.

sometime you can be too optimistics from some sudden creation. i think the cooler manufactures might have thought of that before going into the more expensive heatpipes. the only hope he can get better result will be 1.it will cost alot for the manufactures to include 4 fans and increase the price but no one will buy. 2. its going to be too loud people couldnt possibly live with it and 3. it will be too tall to have such tall cooler which will put some heavy load on the mobo.

good luck anyway!
July 23, 2008 7:01:52 PM

a successful consumer product MUST go into mass production. if anything that doesnt make it into mass production then its a failure because it couldnt make any money by selling it.
July 23, 2008 7:11:39 PM

I say let's see if it does work...it's only some fans....sometimes it's kinda fun to do stuff yourself...me, I'd like to stick a pc in a mini fridge just for the hell of it, or take the guts out of a full sized fridge and use that to phase change cool a cpu, hella lot quieter than the tiny cased sized ones. :)  GO for it, but keep an eye on your temps or use an old cpu :) 
July 23, 2008 7:17:12 PM

iluvgillgill said:
a successful consumer product MUST go into mass production. if anything that doesnt make it into mass production then its a failure because it couldnt make any money by selling it.


Agreed. BUT, OP never said he wanted to make a consumer product. He just wanted to experiment with a new air cooler for his PC. I'm not saying its going to be better or cheaper than anything already available on the market but thats the whole point....this is his own personal design. Everyone already has all the stuff available on the market its boring.
July 23, 2008 7:54:36 PM

royalcrown said:
I say let's see if it does work...it's only some fans....sometimes it's kinda fun to do stuff yourself...me, I'd like to stick a pc in a mini fridge just for the hell of it, or take the guts out of a full sized fridge and use that to phase change cool a cpu, hella lot quieter than the tiny cased sized ones. :)  GO for it, but keep an eye on your temps or use an old cpu :) 


Good thinking. I think I have a a64 3200 around here somewhere.
July 23, 2008 8:10:11 PM

mtyler7807 said:
Good thinking. I think I have a a64 3200 around here somewhere.


the outward air circulation also blows past the northbridge and ram. That is also important to keep cool. Use an old Mobo too. :heink: 
July 23, 2008 9:36:30 PM

hairycat101 said:
the outward air circulation also blows past the northbridge and ram. That is also important to keep cool. Use an old Mobo too. :heink: 
Okay, I think I also have an old MSI board laying around. I was also using one of those heat sinks with the heat pipes on the bottom to raise it off of the board. That should get it up about one inch up. I would just have to tie a string on to the fans and hook that to the top of inside of the case to relieve some of the weight stress from all of those fans.
July 23, 2008 10:00:40 PM

Many years ago I used to be in the audio industry and I designed many speaker systems with various designs. In a system where multiple speakers were loaded in a vent (not ported) type enclosure the only thing that you needed to make sure of was that the opening where the air escapes was equal to or greater than the surface area of the speakers. Your situation is a little different due the fact, as others have stated, that you will be blowing air from fans pointed directly at each other and the fans are not a solid area as a speaker is. The fans are just blades and move the air differently, plus with resistance would most likely slow down in RPM, and possible even shorten the life of the fan if the resistance was enough.

To test effectiveness of this design you could mount the fans as you have drawn and also mount 4 other fans in an inline fashion and build some sort of enclosure with the same area at the opening where the air escapes. This would give you 2 different designs with the same size opening and then compare the air flow of the 2 setups and see if they are the same or close.

July 23, 2008 10:10:38 PM

Now for more of a fun post.......

What if you took off the top plate and added 2 more 80mm (or whatever size) fans there stacked one on top of the other to also blow air down. That would be sure to drive you nuts with fan noise but it would also move some air. It might even help the air flow move down so the other fans might not fight as much. Would be intresting to see.
a c 145 à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 23, 2008 10:46:50 PM

The idea seems like a good one, but you are going to have fans pushing one another causing the motors to work much harder and maybe reducing there lifespans. The heatsink it self will cause allot of resistance to that amount of air

A push/pull through the heatsink may be a better option.

Another thought would be to run a 120mm or 140mm fan with a flexible pipe from a fan at the front of the case to the heatsink so it will get air from the outside of the case. The cooler air will give you lower temps and the 120/140mm fan will give you higher air flow.

If you do make it, some kind of dampers to help direct the air down to the heatsink may help(maybe even a small cone from the top to direct all the air down). Take lots of pictures of whatever you do and post them when done.
July 23, 2008 10:57:39 PM

Ok... lets hear about some results. The build was only to take an hour or so... where is the verdict? =)
July 23, 2008 11:10:52 PM

nukemaster said:
The idea seems like a good one, but you are going to have fans pushing one another causing the motors to work much harder and maybe reducing there lifespans. The heatsink it self will cause allot of resistance to that amount of air

A push/pull through the heatsink may be a better option.

Another thought would be to run a 120mm or 140mm fan with a flexible pipe from a fan at the front of the case to the heatsink so it will get air from the outside of the case. The cooler air will give you lower temps and the 120/140mm fan will give you higher air flow.

If you do make it, some kind of dampers to help direct the air down to the heatsink may help(maybe even a small cone from the top to direct all the air down). Take lots of pictures of whatever you do and post them when done.


he gave me a good idea nukemaster...why not just take a really bug fan like 250 mm and put it in a funnel of some sort that fits the square top o that heatsink and blows down ?

edit, maybe 250 is too big...lol ....160 ?

July 24, 2008 12:22:33 AM

nukemaster said:
The idea seems like a good one, but you are going to have fans pushing one another causing the motors to work much harder and maybe reducing there lifespans. The heatsink it self will cause allot of resistance to that amount of air

A push/pull through the heatsink may be a better option.

Another thought would be to run a 120mm or 140mm fan with a flexible pipe from a fan at the front of the case to the heatsink so it will get air from the outside of the case. The cooler air will give you lower temps and the 120/140mm fan will give you higher air flow.

If you do make it, some kind of dampers to help direct the air down to the heatsink may help(maybe even a small cone from the top to direct all the air down). Take lots of pictures of whatever you do and post them when done.

Okay
July 24, 2008 5:11:31 AM

Really, if you feel that strongly about the idea, patent it. That's not cheap, but it's not out of the reach of a normal working person. That's why good ideas CAN come from sources other than big company R&D. I think you'll find that this idea probably has already been patented and nobody has made any money off of it, simply because it doesn't work as well as you think. It's unfortunate that actual physics doesn't always confirm the physics in your head, but that's just the way it is. If you don't have the education to make your design work, your other option is trial and error. And don't discredit the error part, you'd be surprised how many good ideas come from mistakes. I mean, look at Reese's Peanut Butter cups. =]
a c 145 à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 24, 2008 5:20:31 AM

szwaba67 said:
look at Reese's Peanut Butter cups. =]

I'm Officer Reese what happened.....He got chocolate in my peanut butter....he got peanut butter in my chocolate.....bang bang....
July 24, 2008 6:36:44 AM

szwaba67 said:
Really, if you feel that strongly about the idea, patent it. That's not cheap, but it's not out of the reach of a normal working person. That's why good ideas CAN come from sources other than big company R&D. I think you'll find that this idea probably has already been patented and nobody has made any money off of it, simply because it doesn't work as well as you think. It's unfortunate that actual physics doesn't always confirm the physics in your head, but that's just the way it is. If you don't have the education to make your design work, your other option is trial and error. And don't discredit the error part, you'd be surprised how many good ideas come from mistakes. I mean, look at Reese's Peanut Butter cups. =]


Other good accidents:

vulcanized rubber

cyanoacrylates (super glue...pretty sure an accident)

slinkys (was supposed to be a new type of vibrational mount for naval vehicles)

silly putty...
July 24, 2008 1:48:06 PM

We're on day two here. I thought the build would only take an hour ;)  Where are we at with the whole build/test process? What's going down, mt?
July 24, 2008 3:46:27 PM

problem actually building it??
July 24, 2008 5:37:40 PM

iluvgillgill said:
problem actually building it??


Provided he started with someone elses base plate at least, this isn't a complicated design. I always thought this was meant to go onto an existing HSF... just minus the F part.

Where is our progress update!!!!! :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce: 
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 24, 2008 5:52:05 PM

Good luck OP.
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