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Do you Hate Ipods/Apple/Macs?

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Do you hate Apple?

Total: 233 votes (26 blank votes)

  • Yes
  • 55 %
  • No
  • 20 %
  • Just the Macs
  • 12 %
  • Are you kidding me?!? I love Apple products
  • 5 %
  • Love the OS, Hate the hardware
  • 6 %
  • IPod Rulz!
  • 5 %
a b B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2008 6:56:47 PM

Just wanted to see how many ppl. hate/love Apple ;) 

Inspired by this thread :D 
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/244799-32-newsflash-i...


Sorry for posting it on this section ;)  But this is the most popular section!

Best Post gets an Award!
@:spaztic7 and skittle see page 6 :) 

8/2/2008: See page 6, very funny

This is five year old flame bait, no reason to bump an old thread. - G

More about : hate ipods apple macs

January 18, 2008 7:05:47 PM

I hate them because I can. :lol: 

Never really used Macs. I once tried an iPod Nano in a store... it wasn't bad. But I really hate the Macs at my university... one mouse button... wow, why don't you just cut off my arms and legs?
January 18, 2008 7:18:20 PM

I've never understood why anoyne would buy an Ipod when there are much better and cheaper players out there. (no, not the Zune).
Related resources
January 18, 2008 7:37:58 PM

The new ipod touch is actually pretty cool...

Everything else i hate.
January 18, 2008 7:44:12 PM

I don't really hate the macs, just the people that think they are better because they have them.

And it's funny, because they only like the macs because they don't know how to use a pc, and don't even know how to use the software that makes the macs so expensive in the first place.

I'm not saying this about all mac owners, just an observation about some of them.

I really don't know why they always talk about macs being more stable and stuff. I mean, I pretty much never have problems. And I'm on Vista too. I mean, I know it's supposed to be so that all the hardware agrees easily and there are no compatability issues, but really, pc's aren't even bad when it comes to that.

In my opinion, macs are for lazy people that don't want to have to know about a computer at all. And they can't handle two buttons on the mouse.

Unless they buy it because they know what they are doing and need the software.

Yeah. I don't want to say all mac people are like that, because I hate when people hate whole groups of people, but those types of mac owners are annoying.

The new macbook air looks pretty cool though.
January 18, 2008 7:45:26 PM

I hate Macs because the first programming class I ever took the teacher forced us to use Macs because she was 108 years old and still thought Apple was the only computer manufactuer. We had these horrible Emacs and every time your code wasn't exactly what they wanted the damn thing would lock up and you'd be lucky if it restarted before the end of the class.
January 18, 2008 7:58:13 PM

yadge,

That reminds me of my supervisor from working at Best Buy for the Geek Squad. This guy was supposed to be a certified PC Tech but didn't know squat about computers. He spent a ton of money trying to build a PC but couldn't ever get it to work right so he spent another $2500 on a MacBook. After that he was always going on about how much better Macs were then PCs. You could always shut him up by reminding him that the only reason why he got a Mac was because he couldn't figure out how to put a PC together.
a b B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2008 8:06:13 PM

^ :lol: 
January 18, 2008 8:16:35 PM

iPod is ok. Expensive.
But the software is great.
January 18, 2008 8:17:49 PM

I have a 4 year old 17" Powerbook and that thing continues to serve me well. I don't like so much where apple has been going since then...the OS is getting more and more bloated (though if you like to tinker you can still make it nice and lean).

They could really corner much more of market though if they got their gaming together.

I used mine for work (design....photoshop, illustrator, After Effects, Motion 2, Maya) and I'll tell you that well maintained macs offer some crazy stability. Excellent multitasking and disk management.

My friends significant other just got a new dual proc quad core Mac Pro...once she loads that thing up with serious ram....its going to chew through rendering.

So i don't hate them...but what can I say I bought a PC, 3 weeks ago....fast, stable, and it didn't cost me 3 grand.

Microsoft could take at least some of the good cues from OS X...

by the way, I used to play Quake 3 Arena on that laptop....
1.5 Ghz G4
128MB Radeon 9700 Pro
got 1280x720 (all max) @ ~100 fps average
January 18, 2008 8:17:56 PM

I hate Macs because I can't afford them and mac fans always tout them off as "better" and "more secure" then my windows box. The new iPods look bad in my opinion, and since iTunes sucks, especially on non-mac platforms, I have zero desire to get an iPod. I'll stick with my nice plug-and-play Zen that has more features. As far as the operating system goes, I like it, it looks good and I've had good experiences using friends iBooks with Tiger on them. I don't want to have the pay the premium for mac hardware just to run OS X though, gaming is more my thing, so WindowsXP is the OS for me at the moment.
January 18, 2008 8:19:12 PM

Macs and Mac user suk, may the all burn in hell... :fou: 
January 18, 2008 8:19:28 PM

niz said:
I've never understood why anoyne would buy an Ipod when there are much better and cheaper players out there. (no, not the Zune).



Sound Quality... big difference when i used a cheap mp3 player vs the ipod..
a b B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2008 8:30:44 PM

PlasticSashimi said:


Microsoft could take at least some of the good cues from OS X...



May be it should be the other way around soon?


http://www.techworld.com/security/news/index.cfm?newsid...

Quote:

For example, Windows security holes generally receive a lot of press because of the software's popularity, but the statistics show that Windows isn't the subject of significantly more advisories than other operating systems. Windows XP Professional saw 46 advisories in 2003-2004, with 48 percent of vulnerabilities allowing remote attacks and 46 percent enabling system access, Secunia said.

Suse Linux Enterprise Server (SLES) 8 had 48 advisories in the same period, with 58 percent of the holes exploitable remotely and 37 percent enabling system access. Red Hat's Advanced Server 3 had 50 advisories in the same period - despite the fact that counting only began in November of last year. Sixty-six percent of the vulnerabilities were remotely exploitable, with 25 granting system access.

Mac OS X doesn't stand out as particularly more secure than the competition, according to Secunia. Of the 36 advisories issued in 2003-2004, 61 percent could be exploited across the Internet and 32 percent enabled attackers to take over the system. The proportion of critical bugs was also comparable with other software: 33 percent of the OS X vulnerabilities were "highly" or "extremely" critical by Secunia's reckoning, compared with 30 percent for XP Professional and 27 percent for SLES 8 and just 12 percent for Advanced Server 3. OS X had the highest proportion of "extremely critical" bugs at 19 percent.

January 18, 2008 8:35:03 PM

i have recently bought an Ipod classic 80Gb :) 

interface and sound quality are PERFECT
the entire device is controllable with one hand, and its a breese to navigate in the menus
also a nice movie quality en great battery time

on the other side, i have the device one month and i had to reset it already 6 times??
the software sucks now by all the freeses, but with firmware upgrades they will resolve that I hope...
one other thing that sucks is itunes... it is even worse than the firmware...
everytime I want to copy a song from my pc to the Ipod, Itunes freeses completely for a couple of seconds before proceeding...
also the interface is crap, the look and feel is crap and it uses way to many resources for what the program does
and ofcourse you can only sync the Ipod with Itunes... thanks apple... :fou:  (tried winamp and it works but my alphabetic order of songs is gone...)

conclusion: the Ipod is the best mp3 player IMO, only too bad Apple made it...
January 18, 2008 8:44:28 PM

exarrkun said:
i have recently bought an Ipod classic 80Gb :) 
and ofcourse you can only sync the Ipod with Itunes... thanks apple... :fou: 


HAHA no doubt that’s ridiculous, especially considering there are so much better software alternatives out there…

I am still surprised Itunes runs on a PC…

a b B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2008 8:45:45 PM

Edit: Added new option to the poll (New option = Ipod Rulz!)

Previous Votes:
8---No
1---Yes
1---Just hate the hardware
2---Just the Macs.
a b B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2008 8:50:48 PM

You know, I'll probably get razzed for saying this, but I don't care. My first computer was a commodore 64 at about the age of 5, then in about 97, I got a PC with an AMD k6 200 mhz processor. Since then, I've been all about the PC, building computers an what not, I'd build a computer for games before buying a console used and had almost every windows OS since Windows 95, with the exception of windows 2000.

Recently, I got a new IT job with a school district, guess what we use? Macs. I used t hate macs, but you know what, I am sold on the little guys now. I'm typing this on a Macbook, it's got a 2 ghz intel core 2 duo, and 1 gb of ram, and it moves very quickly. I like it. Don't get me wrong at home, still love the PC. Can't get the software for the Mac I can on the PC, still can't do all my gaming. But the beauty of the Mac is it's simplicity. It's so nice that if I have a prob with a machine not booting or something at work, I can throw a disc image on it, and it works every time, if you are using the right images. It's great b/c you don't have to worry about as many incompatibilities. And this LCD on the Macbook, one of the best I've ever seen.

I'm not saying Macs are the end all to end all, but those of you who are saying I hate them b/c I've never used them, grow up. It's essentially the same as windows, just things are in a different spot. Like one feature as a power user I like, I've got what's called my dashboard and expose turned on, if I have 20 different things running, I just move the mouse to one corner of the screen, and it shows me each window i have open in a different part of my desktop. Move the mouse to another place, and I'm back on my desktop. Plus their newer OS's are based on Unix, so it's a more powerful OS than before. If you have never used it, don't knock it, b/c it's a very nice, easy to use OS, and a nice machine, with me using my PC for games, I probably would not go exclusively Mac....but I'm just checking email and doing normal everyday tasks, It's not bad at all. And it's pretty sweet to have a remote to go with a lappy.
January 18, 2008 9:07:43 PM

All mac products can be gotten from hong kong oem without any ipod BS or protected stuff. Im getting a few Touch screen 4gb Mp4 players WITH AN SD SLOT! So i can have about 3 or 4 dvd's per gb of flash card. 8 hours battery life watching videos, 16 with music. (thank god for oled screens)
a b B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2008 9:07:44 PM

@ Ohio_grad_06 I have used Macs ( I am running it on a tri boot PC too; XP/Linux/Mac) Just try programing on it.
January 18, 2008 9:13:50 PM

i hate the expensive hardware, i love the OS, i "like" the touch
January 18, 2008 9:19:22 PM

I would put people that buy ipods and people that buy bose in the same category. They do the job but the people that own them and think they are the best are not to bright, hence the purchase.
Theres much better out there but most people are to lazy, ignorant or just downright stupid to find them.
Awww well what can you do eh?
January 18, 2008 9:42:07 PM

I've used macs at college and find them to be quite useless, and cmon just one button in a mouse it's plain stupid.

Then I got my iPod for Christmas 3 years ago, when the battery started holding only 50% of it's capacity 8 months later I made a vow not to EVER again purchase anything with an apple on it, including apples themselves.
January 18, 2008 9:50:02 PM

I have slight bias agains macs and apple products in general. As mentioned by others it doesn't stem from the products themself but from the fact they apple sells those gear at a premium AND that a lot of their clients have a nasty "better than you" attitude.
I have seen MacOS crash. I have seen the Iphone crash. It's not better than other stuff out there. What it is though, it combines the right pieces of hard- and software in a very closed system to get it's work done - comparable to a console. Apple can introduce changes and improvements quicker and in greater perfection than any PC manufacturer can, since their sortiment and targeted consumers are only a small, limited group. Yet their products aim at specific tasks and there are some things apple just ignores - or fails at. Apple offers a minimum of compatibility if it comes to hardware and that is the greatest drawback they have.
January 18, 2008 10:23:43 PM

yadge said:
I don't really hate the macs, just the people that think they are better because they have them.


I've installed countless Mac imaging systems in labs around the world. I've built and modded many PCs. I've never heard a Mac owner say anything that would make me think they are better because they own a Mac. But I have heard quite a few PC owners say crap like you posted.
January 18, 2008 10:24:27 PM

The greatest strength of the Mac is the fact that it is based on UNIX. It inherited many of UNIX's strengths.

My biggest problem with the Mac is the graphical interface / window manager. I absolutely despise it.
January 18, 2008 10:30:06 PM

Shadow703793 said:
Just wanted to see how many ppl. hate/love Apple ;) 

Inspired by this thread :D 
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/244799-32-newsflash-i...


Sorry for posting it on this section ;)  But this is the most popular section!

Best Post gets an Award!


I hate bullets, bombs, cluster munitions, landmines and depleted uranium munitions.

Apple, as disgusting as their adverts are, really does not fit into those 'hated' categories.
January 18, 2008 10:35:49 PM

cant really hate them cuz my first computer was a macintosh 128k, but ipods cant play wma
January 18, 2008 10:52:51 PM

I don't "hate" the products, I hate the marketing. And there is a big difference between products and marketing.

Apple has always had an air of superiority, an almost arrogant attitude, and many Apple users adopt those same attitudes.

When I was shopping for my first computer (circa 1985) I encountered the Apple Arrogance when I asked why the Apple computer was better than the IBM PC and the answer was "because it is an Apple".
a b B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2008 11:13:10 PM

croc said:
I hate bullets, bombs, cluster munitions, landmines and depleted uranium munitions.

Apple, as disgusting as their adverts are, really does not fit into those 'hated' categories.


imrul said:
cant really hate them cuz my first computer was a macintosh 128k, but ipods cant play wma


^
@Everyone: This thread was started to see the OPINION/VIEWS of different/majority, etc people, and nothing more.
a b B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2008 11:18:10 PM

Iorny:

You'd think that Apple would build a PC with a touch screen (Itouch/Iphone) instead of one button mouse. Would make computing SOO much easier(?)
January 18, 2008 11:32:12 PM

Shadow703793 said:
Iorny:

You'd think that Apple would build a PC with a touch screen (Itouch/Iphone) instead of one button mouse. Would make computing SOO much easier(?)


Oily fingerprints on my screen would piss me off....

Anyways I would like to chime in on this discussion. My brother and his wife are die-hard Mac users. He even has an iPhone. What I really hate about Apple is how proprietary their OS, hardware, and everything else is. I feel like I'm a communist every time I use one. I can't use any useful software or have any freedom within the constraints of a Mac. I swear they used Macs in that book A Brave New World when you look at one. I prefer my free spirited PC with all the support and pirated software you could want. Sure, I live within the constraints of Linux and Windows but at least I can pirate them if I have to dammit.

Also Steve Jobs went from being a hippy to a corporate scoundrel. I hate that. Bill was always Bill and has never stopped being himself, even after the 50 Billion mark (hes always been a sheisty, nerdy bastard and I love him for keeping it real)...
January 18, 2008 11:47:42 PM

Quote:
Sound Quality... big difference when i used a cheap mp3 player vs the ipod..
Maybe until the internal connection starts to where down and then you're lucky to be able to hear anything out of one ear. There's a lot of words I could use to describe Ipods, quality is not one of them. All joking about why I don't like Macs or Mac users aside the Ipod is the most overhyped, overpriced piece of junk ever invented. Like I mentioned above I used to work for Best Buy with the Geek Squad and no other item even come close to needing service as much as IPods. Did you know that the are actual shipping containers called "IPOD BOXES" (that is the name printed on them) made specifically for shipping IPods back to Apple for repair. No matter how many of these containers we ordered (they come in packs of like 50) we would always run out at least once a week, in part because they are always on back order due to the number IPods having to be sent back to Apple each week. There are a lot of high quality MP3 players that sell for less then IPods but only fail about 1/10 of the time. I'm not a huge music person so I bought the cheapest one I could find; A 2GB Insignia (BB brand) for $50. It's 1/3 the price of a 4GB IPod Nano, but also has a SD card slot so I can add more memory and easily transfer files between devices (GPS, Cell Phone). But the real kicker is that the $50 cheapo brand has Stereo Bluetooth where as the IPod requires a special attachment (another $50). The sound quality my Motorola Bluetooth headset is incredilbe and since I pretty much only use it while working out being wireless is invaluable. Another thing I learned while working at Best Buy about IPods and all Apple products is that Apple has policys set in place with all resellers to keep there prices up in order give them a sense of elitism (BOSE does the same thing). Not only are Employee discounts disallowed by Apple, but they also pitched a fit and made Best Buy stop giving away IPods to employees as rewards because they claimed Best Buy was "de-valuing" their products.
a b B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2008 11:54:12 PM

Do i hate Apple? No......

What do i hate? The lies...

Macs are just better at find stuff like music and blogging. What? damn i keep on forgetting that windows PC do not include sound cards.

Or was it more like....

hey PC ...

I was bought for a family and all they want to do is blog and listen to music.......i am "crying my self to sleep mode". Damn that power saving feature...

Anyone remember apple making claims to its PPC systems being 2x faster then P4 systems. Then core 2 systems being 2x faster then PPC. We all know that Core 2 is not 4 x faster then P4. So someone lied again.....

Thats just plain BS....

As for Ipod......i could not care less....
Apple did NOT invent the PMP(Portable Music Player) no matter how much they want you think they did....I think the first one i seen was the Diamond (I think it was the Rio). Then the Creative Nomad Jukebox(6 gigs was a hell of a lot in 2000). Yeah it was big and ugly, but it had EAX and sounded great. Thats what matters to me....its all about what it does. Not how it looks.

I used many macs over the years....back when Windows 95 was around i used to crash mac all the time, windows 95 just kept on going. OS-X did not impress me too much. I am already more then used to running a windows machine and all its software. When i was using OS-X it actually seemed harder to find things then the simple start => Adobe +> Photoshop CS. My personal preference also stands for a menu bar for each window not some of those odd shared bars OS-x uses.

Its down to user preference in the end....

Has anyone ever noticed how Itunes is made to feel slower sometimes in windows? I had to install it on a machine i was fixing and the volume slider was very un-smooth the tool tips seemed to lag a good bit. and last off minimizing it with the start menu(just un-selecting it to minimize and reselecting it to bring it back up...) and bringing it back up took long(yet clicking its icon on the system tray was instant)

I will install it on one of my computers to try to reproduce this(the machine in question was a Pentium M 1.73...plenty fast for itunes...)....

For some reason i remember something similar on Quicktime....Quick time way back when used to be lightning fast....
January 19, 2008 12:14:08 AM

PlasticSashimi said:
I used mine for work (design....photoshop, illustrator, After Effects, Motion 2, Maya) and I'll tell you that well maintained macs offer some crazy stability. Excellent multitasking and disk management.


PCs can do all of that, and more. In fact mine does. Not to mention Adobe didnt update their Mac suite for a number of years (probably beause they thought macs were worthless)


And Ipod sound quality? Even the zune has higher quality audio chips than the Ipods... Ipods are just for Isuckers.

Read this: Mac Users More Open Minded And Sure Of Themselves - Study
http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/01/16/mac_users_more_o...

Rofl... thats the funniest thing i have read in a long time.

Quote:
New York (NY) - Open minded people are more likely to purchase a Mac, according to a new survey released by Mindset Media. The company interviewed 7500 people and found that liberal thinkers were 60 percent more likely to buy a Mac. These same people were also less modest and more sure of their own superiority than the rest of the population.

Mindset Media places these "enlightened" people into a category called "Opennes 5's" folks. People in that category are also more "receptive to their own inner feelings and may feel both happiness and unhappiness more intensely than others."

Sarah Welch, COO and co-founder of Mindset Media, said, "For the first time, marketers with brands that have distinctive Mindset Profiles, like Apple, can directly reach the people with the personality and attitudes that love what they sell."
a c 122 B Homebuilt system
January 19, 2008 12:24:00 AM

Hardware is overpriced.
January 19, 2008 12:37:07 AM

Its like gasoline-

Any car you buy can run on any gas stations fuel, but if you buy a diesel (mac), the fuel costs more, harder to find(software), but the machine tends to last longer.

I want a machine that is capable of more flexibility and compatibility, so the pc, like the gas powered vehicle wins out unless you are in a specialized environment. (Dump trucks, busses, locomotives, etc.

I also compare the mac/microsoft thing to the video format wars- HD vs bluray, dvd vs Divx, Betamax vs VHS. Sometimes the less quality option wins out in the popularity test.
a b B Homebuilt system
January 19, 2008 12:39:25 AM

and i will tell you poorly maintained and abused pc can have some crazy stability too.....



Solid load all the time....used for daily surfing music and more....i am not gonna comment on multitasking with a XP 1800+ ,but you know...its damn stable...
a b B Homebuilt system
January 19, 2008 12:56:42 AM

There are MP3 players out there that sound much better than an iPod. I'm sticking with Cowon iAudio.

Apart from that, I have to congratulate Apple for the way they managed to sell so much stuff with such big profit margins and so much hype. Just look at their stock's chart, it's fantastic.
January 19, 2008 12:57:22 AM

Here's the one line from that article that proves it's entirely false,

Quote:
Mindset Media isn't disclosing the methodology used in the survey...

Must be a proprietary study. Apple probably financed it.
January 19, 2008 1:00:21 AM

clue69less said:
I've installed countless Mac imaging systems in labs around the world. I've built and modded many PCs. I've never heard a Mac owner say anything that would make me think they are better because they own a Mac. But I have heard quite a few PC owners say crap like you posted.


You haven't spent enough time around mac fanboys on the internet. I've been in an IRC channel with a few mac fanboys trying to tell me to switch over to their "superior" operating system and that I should replace my Zen with an iPod, because it's a nicer player and other bull like that. Their hobbies are like that of most Linux fanboys I've met, which is never pass up an excuse to bash Windows.
a b B Homebuilt system
January 19, 2008 1:33:02 AM

^Linux is a great OS for setting up a very secure server/downloading torentz (IP blocker + Proxy :D  ), imo. but when it comes to gaming, its dead lost.



^That is one long uptime! What's the PC used for?
a b B Homebuilt system
January 19, 2008 1:40:05 AM

music, net, team speak, file server, torrent box. old games...ohhhh and yeah it folds....

Its been replaced with a A64 3200+(under volted)....uses the same power but quite a bit faster....

Some day i am going to linux it....it will still do what it does now, and it can be my router too....
January 19, 2008 1:42:42 AM

I owned a Nano and it was stolen. Even though I'm out a small fortune, I'm kind of glad, that's how much I hated iTunes.
a b B Homebuilt system
January 19, 2008 1:50:44 AM

^ :D  and :( 

As of this post:
27 votes----Yes
10 votes-------No
5 votes------Just the Macs
3 votes--------- Love the OS, Hate the hardware
4 votes-------IPod Rulz!

Let the Voting continue! (while I sleep, its 11PM here)
January 19, 2008 2:18:18 AM

I don't hate Macs, but they do give me frustration every time I try to use one. They also give everyone in the family except my brother a good laugh. Back when I gave up my Commodore 64, I went to a PC format and have stayed there since. My brother had a Apple II and switched to Macs and has stayed there every since. He used to talk about how much more powerful his Mac was then my PC, until he pointed out how he had 2 mb of graphics and found out I had 32 mb. Now I have 512 mb and he doesn't try to say anything about having more power. He also complains about not having many programs available, and almost no games in comparison to a PC. His kids all use PCs, everyone in the family uses PCs, but he hangs on.

Those Apple commercials are also a good laugh. Even my brother, who is stuck on Apples for life, thinks there too rediculous to be believed. The one thing that my brother so far hasn't done is to buy one of the new Apples. Seems he hears too many things from his Apple owning friends about how many problems they have had, so he keeps his 5 year old Mac and won't upgrade, even though he can't hardly find any program that will run on it. So I don't hate Macs. I find them amusing. Just don't ask me to use one.
January 19, 2008 4:55:25 AM

clue69less said:
I've installed countless Mac imaging systems in labs around the world. I've built and modded many PCs. I've never heard a Mac owner say anything that would make me think they are better because they own a Mac. But I have heard quite a few PC owners say crap like you posted.


What kind of crap did I say? I didn't say any crap. All I said was that some Mac users feel superior and usually these people tend to be the ones that don't really know enough to be able to handle a pc.

I said nothing bad about the product or the people that don't feel superior. The rest of my post was just defending the pc, trying to protect it from Apple's false marketing.

It isn't less stable, or less powerful, or less easy to use.

I'm just slightly angry that you think I said "crap", when I was trying to not offend anyone.

Actually I'm not angry. But I just felt the need to defend myself.
a b B Homebuilt system
January 19, 2008 5:16:39 AM

If Mac hardware was the same price as comparable PC hardware, I would buy one, or if MacOS were available for PC, I would buy that.
January 19, 2008 5:44:50 AM

No I don't hate them, hating inanimate objects is kind of silly. I refuse to give Steve Jobs any business on the other hand because he is a complete prick and screwed over his customers so many times that he doesnt deserve my business :) 
January 19, 2008 6:00:49 AM

:ange: 
I voted that I hate them and Apple.......BUT
there really is ONE VOTE OPTION MISSING!

:non: 

I hate the culture that Apple is spawning, I will not use the products because of it, and if they take over the world, I might then....cuz the leechy-self-righteous-whiny culture that supported it will have been sucked dry by then and maybe the company will have matured into something decent!

:bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce: 
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