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Please help with baby steps to OC'ing the 5000+ BE AM2 cpu!

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July 24, 2008 7:53:56 PM

I know how to turn up the multiplier for the AM2 5000 BE edition in the BIOS, but after reading about it on the internet, there seems to be a formula or something? I am really confused on this.

Right now my CPU-Z reading is 14.5X and 2.9 ghz. When set to AUTO in the bios, it goes to 14X. Now, I don't want to burn out the chip or cause any undo damage to it, so I will need to start to increase the multiplier - but what do I have to use as a calculation?

Thanks from a newbie.

July 24, 2008 8:21:58 PM

netrate said:
I know how to turn up the multiplier for the AM2 5000 BE edition in the BIOS, but after reading about it on the internet, there seems to be a formula or something? I am really confused on this.

Right now my CPU-Z reading is 14.5X and 2.9 ghz. When set to AUTO in the bios, it goes to 14X. Now, I don't want to burn out the chip or cause any undo damage to it, so I will need to start to increase the multiplier - but what do I have to use as a calculation?

Thanks from a newbie.


Do a search for AMD overclocking guides. As for the 5000+BE, the simplest way to overclock it is to just increase the the multiplier. The stock setting is 13x. At 14.5x, you should not have to change anything else for it to be stable. I currently have one at 3Ghz, 15x multi. To be 100% stable at this setting I needed to bump the voltage by +0.05V

You apparently are completely new to overclocking. So, you should read as much as you can first. Remember, Google is your friend. The 5000+BE should run at 3.2Ghz pretty easily (mine needs +0.200V, 16x multi). But each chip is different. GL
July 24, 2008 8:39:16 PM

The 5000+BE is really a great first time overclocker. Here's the simplest way to understand the forumlas you need to know:

HTT Reference X Multiplier = Clock Speed

Clock Speed / Memory Divider = Memory Speed

HTT Reference X HT Multiplier = Hypertransport Speed

There's debate on if a higher hypertransport speed is good or not, and I've seen absolutely no benefit to running the HT speed higher. I've heard of risks of data corruption with running it too high, but never seen any concrete proof. Right now I am running my 5k+BE at 3.25GHz, ram at 1066, and HT 1084. I achieved this by doing a 271 HTT x 12. This did require the voltage to be set @ 1.425 to be 24 hr orthos stable. Don't worry about the voltage as long as you have cooling though, I've had this chip over 1.5 trying to hit high speeds, and never had any problems.

If you really want to impress your friends, lap your heatsink (on the cooler side) and remove your IHS on the 5000+BE.
Related resources
July 24, 2008 8:57:59 PM

good ideas here. I would add this... Keep even multipliers to keep the memory speed up. 10,12,14... Your memory speeds will increase with the bus speeds. so in the example of Verillion, 271 bus speed will speed up the ram also. Default is 200. When you OC your CPU you aslo OC your ram. If you think your ram is limiting you, try a different multiplier that slows your ram down. That way you can tell if it is the CPU or ram that is hodling you back.
July 24, 2008 9:08:31 PM

If you just change the multiplier, and not the HTT, you won't overclock the ram. The ram speed, however, does change with different multipliers. To run ddr2-800 at full speed, you should run 14x multiplier for 2.8Ghz or 16x multi for 3.2Ghz. However, maxing out the ram speed isn't all that important.
July 24, 2008 10:30:11 PM

I will have to do some more reading. Right now, here is my cpu-z dump:

I am not playing games, just editing video, photoshop etc. I have increased the multiplier to 15. I just don't want to overclock (using only that multiplier setting) and find out I shouldn't have - or discovered changing another setting would be better.

-------------------------
CPU-Z version 1.40
-------------------------

Processors Map
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of processors 1
Number of threads 2

Processor 0
-- Core 0
-- Thread 0
-- Core 1
-- Thread 0


Processors Information
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Processor 1 (ID = 0)
Number of cores 2
Number of threads 2 (max 2)
Name AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+
Codename Brisbane
Specification AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+
Package Socket AM2 (940)
CPUID F.B.2
Extended CPUID F.6B
Brand ID 4
Core Stepping
Technology 65 nm
Core Speed 3013.9 MHz (15.0 x 200.9 MHz)
HT Link speed 1004.6 MHz
Stock frequency 5000 MHz
Instructions sets MMX (+), 3DNow! (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, x86-64
L1 Data cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L2 cache 2 x 512 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size
FID/VID Control yes
max FID 25.0x
VID range 1.125V - 1.400V
K8 Thermal sensor yes
K8 Revision ID 6.0
Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 0
Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 1
Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 2
Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 3


July 25, 2008 3:06:08 AM

Do Not Lap your CPU!

Not only does it void your warranty, should something go wrong, but there is no need to do so on this chip. It runs plenty cool without an expensive aftermarket heat sink.

Upping the multi, vs the fsb, will give you faster speed, and no additional heat generation.

I just upped mine to 15.5 with everything on auto! 29% oc or so, with one or two strokes, and no chance of damage to the system.

Start there, and read this-

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/budget-overclocker,...

Then get clocking!
July 25, 2008 3:07:53 AM

Netrate -
You should be ok - it really depends on your Mobo/BIOS as to what you can do and how you do it.

I like Verillion's formula summary - it pretty much captures what you need to know overall. But if you went by them alone you wouldn't be able to change you cpu speed (by altering the multipler) without also changing your memory speed. I think many Mobos will let you do that (as orangegator was saying). But again its all Mobo/BIOS specific.

For instance, on my old rig, when I first started to overclock it 3+yrs back I had quite an adventure. In my BIOS the HTT reference or base freq is called the cpu FSB frequency (took a little experimenting and reading to figure that out). So I have:
cpu FSB freq (HTT base freq) * multiplier = cpu speed
200 (default) * 14 = 2.8Ghz (slight overclock on the FX-60)

For memory speed I have:
cpu FSB freq * mem clock to cpu ratio = memory speed
I thought originally that if I took a 1:1 ratio, then with a 'FSB' at 200Mhz, I'd have the right speed for my PC3200 memory (DDR400) since your clocking data at double the base clock rate. Wrong - I needed to pick 2:1 as the ratio - which would appear to give you a 400Mhz clock (effectively 800Mhz with DDR) and way overclock the memory. But no, 2:1 is what works correctly - more trial/error and reading to discover that and it still confuses me.
But the good thing is at least that I can change my multipler without affecting the memory speed.

Finally, saved the best for last - the hypertransport speed.
In the BIOS on my mobo, they show something that they call the Hypertransport frequency (HT freq). This can be set from 200Mhz to 1000Mhz in increments of 200Mhz. At first glance this would appear to be the raw setting for the speed of the HT - no formula needed. But you'd be wrong if you think that!
You pick a speed and, based on a unstated but assumed HTT base freq of 200Mhz (not connected to the 'FSB' rate above - just a constant), you divide your selection by this value to get your implied HT Multiplier!!!! So if you pick 1000, you've actually selected a HT mulitpler of 5, 800 gives you a 4x, etc.
Hows that for convoluted!! So finally:
cpu FSB freq (HTT base freq) * (HT Freq/200) = Hypertransport speed

It took me a bit to figure that one out and after having set my FSB freq to higher values and inadertently overclocking my Hypertransport - which did result in my HD getting corrupted - I'm very careful these days to never OC the Hypertransport by more then 5% (if I overclock the mem I just pick 800Mhz for the HT freq to get a 4x multiplier - I haven't noticed any perf impact by doing this).

Anyway, you just got to love the BIOS designer that came up with this scheme.

So the moral is - you can probably just overclock your cpu by changing the mulitplier but know your mobo/BIOS well!!

Enjoy,
Sdrac
July 25, 2008 1:17:43 PM

Granite3 said:
Do Not Lap your CPU!

Not only does it void your warranty, should something go wrong, but there is no need to do so on this chip. It runs plenty cool without an expensive aftermarket heat sink.

Upping the multi, vs the fsb, will give you faster speed, and no additional heat generation.

I just upped mine to 15.5 with everything on auto! 29% oc or so, with one or two strokes, and no chance of damage to the system.

Then get clocking!


I assume you misread my post, but would still say the same things about my advice. I said lap the heatsink on the cooler side, not the processors IHS. Then I said remove the IHS. Not only is this extremely easy, it will help you dissipate heat generated by some of the most extreme overclocks. It's an advanced technique used in overclocking, that anyone can do at home with an assortment of sandpaper, and removing the IHS requires nothing more than a steady hand, a pack of smokes, and a thin razor!

My processor idles at ~14C at 1.425 volts. I have the Asus 92mm Silent Square Evo (Took out the 92mm and put in a 120mm) and it struggles to get above 35C on load. This is at 1.425V! I haven't yet been able to get the maximum stable overclock (current max stable 3.25GHz 24 hours Orthos) on this chip because my ram has been holding me back. I recently picked up a nice stick of 512 from Crucial, and I expect to get over 3.5GHz on this chip, with having no stability or heat problems on air!

I would not put much weight in the theory about using the multi to give you your overclock because it generates less heat. Running extremely high FSB (clock reference) speeds will result in a rise in temperatures on your northbridge/southbridge, but we're talking extremely high numbers here, not the ones you need to overclock this chip. Running a 300+ FSB (clock reference) on my M3A32-MVP I noticed a 6F thermal difference on my heatpipe over the southbridge.... not enough to matter.

I would suggest, to get the most performance on your machine, a happy median of ram/processor overclock would be the best. Err on the side of higher processor, because with the K8 and K10 architecture you see more performance with processor speed, compared to higher ram speeds. However, if you are doing memory intensive operations, you will see your ram latencies go way down with higher clock speeds.

With AMDs current architecture one of the highest differences between Intel/AMD is the way AMD references the memory, resulting in lower latencies. I do not see any reason to neglect our strength, and not overclock the ram a bit to really make this shine!
July 25, 2008 1:40:05 PM

I am getting an ILLEGAL SUMOUT with prime95, it says WARNING, but not an error. This is using the CPU-Z dump I showed above.
I have been running ORTHOS for about 10 minutes without problems - but get an error after the 15 minute mark...
Also, I have used the computer extensively with Sony Vegas and Photoshop for 5-6 hours yesterday without a freeze up or crash.
As I have said, I have only increased the multiplier at this point, but I will probably up the voltage like was stated in the Tom's hardware article.
I will have to read through this stuff again in the replies because it is tough to get my head around it...

Also, I am using an M2N-E Asus motherboard. I haven't flashed the Bios since I bought it which is at 502 and the new bios is 1401. But since it is running well, I wasn't sure if I should tempt fate.

Lastly, where do I get the numbers for the MEMORY DIVIDER? ie;

HTT Reference X Multiplier = Clock Speed (right now I am running 5 X 200)

Clock Speed / Memory Divider = Memory Speed (not sure how to get memory divider number)

HTT Reference X HT Multiplier = Hypertransport Speed (I suppose I can leave this for now?)



And I am unsure of what LAPPING refers to. How do you lap or avoid lapping?
July 25, 2008 2:00:25 PM

here's my experience with OC'ing 5000+BE.

Mine does OC to 3.1ghz (15.5x w/ stock volt.) while running XP SP2 back then.

When I updated it to SP3, once a month, it does random reboots. So I did memtest and Prime95. Well what do you know... memtest came out great but Prime95 showed CPU OC was not stable. While it does run many prog. it tends to give up on occasion when it gets intense. So I bring it back down to 15x Prime95 40hrs and rock solid stable. So it seems that while SP3 does get more cpu intensive then SP2, it did help me find my slightly unstable OC. :) 

3.0ghz on XP SP3 (x15 w/ stock volt.)


gl
a b à CPUs
July 25, 2008 2:08:18 PM

To calculate the memory speed on AM2, you take the multiplier, divide it by 2, round up to the next integer and divide that by the clock speed.
Example:
15/2=7.5 round to 8
2800/8=350
350*2=700 Memory speed.
July 25, 2008 2:31:47 PM

Man this is getting way way way way too complicated. Just play around with it. Move the bus speed around and move the multiplier around. Just don't increase the voltage too much and you shouldn't have too much of an issue. If you are using CPU-Z, keep this in mind, the DRAM frequency listed is in actual MHz. For DDR2 ram just double that to determine what your memory speed is. In the above example, CPU-Z would read 350 MHz... that equates to a DDR2 speed of 700. If your ram is DDR2 800 then it is not running at full speed... thus you have some room to OC the bus speed. Play with it some... Just don't raise the voltage too much and you won't have done damage.

Um... the post above doesn't really work. 200 bus X 15 multiplier = 3000 clockspeed of CPU... not 2800
July 25, 2008 2:55:25 PM

Well this sucks, I am getting this from Ortho :

ERROR in iteration 131081: Vcoul_ref=2.574412, Vcoul=2.567561
StressCPU ran 6 minutes 44 seconds.
Execution halted.

This is with a multiplier of 15 only.
July 25, 2008 3:15:34 PM

What mobo you got?
July 25, 2008 3:32:21 PM

M2N-E,
But as I stated before, I haven't flashed the Bios from 502 to the newest one which is 1401.
July 25, 2008 3:34:57 PM

I've had a 5000+ BE for roughly 6 months or so. I would say the best thing to do with it is set the multiplier up to 14.5 or 15 (I can run mine at x15 multi on stock voltage with a Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H). I've messed around with adjusting the HT speed, the memory bus speed, etc. I would tell you it's not really worth it. I've had my memory up to 240MHz (equivalent of DDR2-960), and there's no noticeable difference in real-world performance between 200x15 and 240x12.5. You might see a change in SiSoft or something like that, but seriously, no noticeable difference in gameplay or anything else.

I know everyone and their grandmother likes to overclock their RAM to get more bandwidth, but there can be some serious consequences to overclocking RAM as opposed to doing the CPU. One of the dorks at ExtremeTech just did a couple of articles (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2326202,00.asp and http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2326338,00.asp on what happened when he pushed his RAM too far - long story short, the boot and partition information on his hard drive was corrupted, and unrecoverable. The sad thing is, while synthetic benchmarks may show a marked difference in bandwidth, I've tested my system with both DDR2-800 and DDR2-667 - again, no discernable difference in actual gameplay. Sure, benchmarks and everything else can tell the difference, but it made no difference at all to the games I was playing.

my recommendation, as one 5000+ BE user to another, is to get a good heatsink if you haven't already (I've got a zalman 9500), and stick with multiplier and voltage adjustment. As I mentioned, I'm running 200 x 15 at stock voltage on my setup - the Gigabyte board (not the best OC platform) and Zalman CNPS9500.
July 25, 2008 3:38:57 PM

You should use the latest bios for sure. Take it back down to stock settings and flash the bios to the latest. I like the gigabyte boards... Got a similar one to the one mentioned above. Make sure you are back at stock settings. No reason to fail on a flash becuase you were OCed!!!!!!!
July 25, 2008 5:12:33 PM

Snag. My floppy doesn't seem to want to hold the backup when I go to flash. I will have to try another one or see if I can buy a higher density floppy to flash this mobo.
July 25, 2008 8:20:58 PM

Lets see what happens if you can get that sucker flashed.
July 25, 2008 8:44:04 PM

The errors you are getting from Orthos are from not having enough voltage supplied to the processor. Don't be afraid to turn up the voltage, just use a quality monitoring software such as CoreTemp. There are all kinds of different temperature monitoring solutions out there, but many do not report correct temperatures, and some people say that the thermal sensors on most of the K8 processors aren't very reliable.
July 25, 2008 9:10:29 PM

neoanderthal said:
I've had a 5000+ BE for roughly 6 months or so. I would say the best thing to do with it is set the multiplier up to 14.5 or 15 (I can run mine at x15 multi on stock voltage with a Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H). I've messed around with adjusting the HT speed, the memory bus speed, etc. I would tell you it's not really worth it. I've had my memory up to 240MHz (equivalent of DDR2-960), and there's no noticeable difference in real-world performance between 200x15 and 240x12.5. You might see a change in SiSoft or something like that, but seriously, no noticeable difference in gameplay or anything else.

I know everyone and their grandmother likes to overclock their RAM to get more bandwidth, but there can be some serious consequences to overclocking RAM as opposed to doing the CPU. One of the dorks at ExtremeTech just did a couple of articles (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2326202,00.asp and http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2326338,00.asp on what happened when he pushed his RAM too far - long story short, the boot and partition information on his hard drive was corrupted, and unrecoverable. The sad thing is, while synthetic benchmarks may show a marked difference in bandwidth, I've tested my system with both DDR2-800 and DDR2-667 - again, no in actual gameplay. Sure, benchmarks and everything else can tell the difference, but it made no difference at all to the games I was playing.



Okay, I have SERIOUS problems with this post! I'm sure you believe the guy over at ExtremeTech, but if you read that article, he is obviously not an extreme techie. He's probably got an Ivy League education in journalism, and the only place that would hire him was a website that's considered to be in the 3rd world of technology. Any techie can shoot all sorts of holes in the first article, and I didn't even bother to read the second after laughing so hard at the first!

Overclocking the ram has very noticeably differences in many ways! Maybe *you* don't notice almost 20% more throughput in READ/WRITE/COPY operations from your memory, but many programs you use will! Please, just because you didn't notice any on your overclock, don't tell other people it's not worth it!

Anyway, loss is something that can occur from overclocking, and that's something you MUST understand and accept before you start. You can damage many dollars worth of your equipment, depending on how many dollars you have in it!
July 30, 2008 1:08:47 AM

Hairycat,

Finding a floppy in this day and age is a problem! I can't seem to find any so I can flash and backup the old Bios!
July 30, 2008 1:33:10 AM

Netrate -
you've got an ASUS mobo - you should be able to use the utility 'AsusUpdate' to backup and flash the BIOS. It or something like it should have come on the CD with the mobo or you should be able to get it off the support site for ASUS.
July 30, 2008 3:34:39 PM

I was thinking of that, but I believe it runs via Windows and there are too many things that can happen when trying to update - crashes etc. I am going on a comprehensive search today for a floppy. If not, I am going to try the USB route - BTW, does the USB have to be clean with nothing on it?
July 30, 2008 5:16:57 PM

Well, there are ways to recover if that were to happen but I think your worrying to much. I can tell you is that I've done it many times using that utility and never had an issue.
If you run into a brick wall trying to do it your way, consider the utility - if it will make you feel more comfortable post a different thread to see if others have had problems when using it.

ltr,
Sdrac
August 4, 2008 2:22:13 AM

Ok,

I had to finish up a project first before I attempted the Flash update. Well, it is done and all went well and now I have the newest flash update of my bios for my Asus M2N-E motherboard Now here is the discouraging part -

Right now I am clocked at 15X multiplier with 1.4 voltage.

This runs successfully with Ortho and no problems with crashes or reboots. So tonight, I went ahead and pushed the multiplier to 15.5. It booted fine, but when I ran Ortho, it crashed to the blue screen after about 3 minutes.
So, should I increase the voltage and try again? Am I stuck with 15X multiplier? Would I really see much of a difference between 15 and 15.5?

Thanks again and sorry for the late update!
August 6, 2008 2:05:16 PM

How far can I push the Voltage without risking permanent damage?
August 11, 2008 8:40:27 PM

anyone?
!