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E8400 CPU Errata

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February 1, 2008 8:14:54 AM

There appear to be some major problems with the new 45nm darling E8400 CPU.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=e8400+temperatur...

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=5460892

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/02/01/...


Shouldn't all of these be recalled and replaced with CPU's that work properly??

Are the chips faulty?

More about : e8400 cpu errata

February 1, 2008 9:02:59 AM

Thank God I ordered a Quad.
February 1, 2008 12:10:04 PM

I wouldn't say its a major problem, but not being able to see the correct CPU temp levels would be annoying. If it caused BSD, or really rough performance, then I'd say.. ya, major problem.

Kinda wonder if Intel blundered on the IHS, or if the sensors are not working/calibrated correctly.

I know I'll be upgrading Q6600. that will be enough processing power for me, even though my E4400 is actually quite enough. :lol: 
Related resources
February 1, 2008 12:38:26 PM

Quote:
Quote:
I wouldn't say its a major problem


No its not. But neither is the bug in the phenoms. 99.9% of users will never experience tld errata in virtualization, and the performance loss by the fix is negatable because they fix can be disabled, but the fanboys sure turn it into a big thing and cause them to lose millions in sales over it, even though its a great processor and a very competative processor at stock speeds, showing major improvement over the A64 and X2 architecture that put Intel to shame. Im sure all this talk about the E8400 will keep a ton of people from buying it, at least at this stepping.
What comes around goes around.



All I know is that I am going to hold off on my upgrade till this gets sorted out. I am not willing to spend that kind of money to have any detectible problems. Its especially true in this case because I plan to OC.
February 1, 2008 12:40:55 PM

Quote:
Quote:
I wouldn't say its a major problem


No its not. But neither is the bug in the phenoms. 99.9% of users will never experience tld errata in virtualization, and the performance loss by the fix is negatable because they fix can be disabled, but the fanboys sure turn it into a big thing and cause them to lose millions in sales over it, even though its a great processor and a very competative processor at stock speeds, showing major improvement over the A64 and X2 architecture that put Intel to shame. Im sure all this talk about the E8400 will keep a ton of people from buying it, at least at this stepping.
What comes around goes around.

I have to say, that was a well put together sensible response, MrsBytch. :) 
I completely agree!
It's certainly an interesting 'problem' as perhaps the temp reporting could also not adjust the fan to the correct setting under load?
If it's only OCers that are seeing any problem, I can't see Intel caring too much though...
February 1, 2008 12:46:01 PM

Quote:
Quote:
I wouldn't say its a major problem


No its not. But neither is the bug in the phenoms. 99.9% of users will never experience tld errata in virtualization, but the fanboys sure turn it into a big thing and cause them to lose tons of sales over it. Im sure all this talk about the E8400 will keep a ton of people from buying it, at least at this stepping. What comes around goes around.



Heh... you using me for flame bait? I did not say anything about phenom, nor did I ever discourage anyone from getting one.

But if you were to jump on a phenom system now, would you just get one now, or wait for the B3 stepping?? :kaola: 
February 1, 2008 1:06:09 PM

Quote:
Quote:
I wouldn't say its a major problem


No its not. But neither is the bug in the phenoms. 99.9% of users will never experience tld errata in virtualization, and the performance loss by the fix is negatable because they fix can be disabled, but the fanboys sure turn it into a big thing and cause them to lose millions in sales over it, even though its a great processor and a very competative processor at stock speeds, showing major improvement over the A64 and X2 architecture that put Intel to shame. Im sure all this talk about the E8400 will keep a ton of people from buying it, at least at this stepping.
What comes around goes around.


but the fanboys sure turn it into a big thing and cause them to lose millions in sales over it.

Girl you are so right! What if there was no giagantic hype about the errata for both phenom and 8400.. Both chip sales would probally be much higher

I dont even understand errata problem is but the way it was hyped people thought the chips were seriously jacked up











February 1, 2008 1:13:48 PM

LukeBird said:
I have to say, that was a well put together sensible response, MrsBytch. :) 
I completely agree!
It's certainly an interesting 'problem' as perhaps the temp reporting could also not adjust the fan to the correct setting under load?
If it's only OCers that are seeing any problem, I can't see Intel caring too much though...



Eh, I think a major point of sale in the enthusiast market is the 8400's overclock ability. Im sure intel is aware of that, and it may be a bad business move to ignore it.

Who knows, they could be selling the CPU knowing full well that its stable at 4ghz, and they "underclock" it so that we feel like we are getting 1ghz for free.

Am I totaly wrong here?
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February 1, 2008 1:28:25 PM

Intel sure don't want people to overclock ... that wrecks their upgrade path for future sales.

Why do you think they are straining the noise threshholds on the Mercury Outboard memory controller trying to get 1600FSB running?

Sure don't need the bandwidth on a single socket.

Sure makes the bridge run hot too ...

BUT ... it does make it damm hard to overclock the chip doesn't it?

Also having a faulty temp diode would put some people off trying to overclock it too ...

Not so the hardcore ... stick it on water and shove nearly an extra volt at the biatch and make it scream ...

But it does help if you can sense the temps reasonably well without having to buy an aftermarket product.

I'd say if you bought one of these and burned it they would have no choice but to replace it free of charge.

If I were a hardcore overclocker looking for a "special" chip I would definitely start with one of these.

You can't go wrong because they have to replace it !!!

SUCKERS !!!
February 1, 2008 1:35:19 PM

Quote:
I wouldnt have a problem with getting one now, I've not seen any real users that claim any performance issues. In fact I've read several articles that after testing say the 9500 at 2.6ghz is just as fast as the Q6600 at 2.6ghz. Of course they dont all overclock as well as the Q6600, but they are A LOT cheaper than the Q6600 as well, averaging about $70 cheaper. Of course I'll be upgrading to the Q6600 because Its as high as I can go with my P965 mobo.


Would you mind pointing out a few of those articles? That would put the K10 at the same performance level as Core2, which would be interesting.

As far as the OP, it's an interesting error, but to be honest... How many home buyers do you know that actually check their CPU or CoreTemps? Same thing with the Phenom, but it got blown out of proportion.
February 1, 2008 1:37:01 PM

Soo.....what are saying, im confused?
February 1, 2008 1:37:28 PM

Bingo .. Blown out of proportion... My favorite line on this forum.. Thank you!
February 1, 2008 1:40:24 PM

amddiesel said:
but the fanboys sure turn it into a big thing and cause them to lose millions in sales over it.

Girl you are so right! What if there was no giagantic hype about the errata for both phenom and 8400.. Both chip sales would probally be much higher

I dont even understand errata problem is but the way it was hyped people thought the chips were seriously jacked up


Heh, so it's the fanboyz fault? Wait... how did the news of the bug get out? I think its more of the press, then people getting angry reading/intemperate it, and because of mis-information or FUD, buyers hold off and wait.

But then I think its is mainly AMD's fault if they knew there was a problem, and by trying to fix it, (performance hit) well that just didn't help any.

I mean if fanboyz are the ones that caused millions of dollars to go down the drain, then they all should Unite and do something about global warming. :D 
February 1, 2008 1:47:40 PM

IMHO press=fanboys too
February 1, 2008 1:50:13 PM

rallyimprezive said:
Eh, I think a major point of sale in the enthusiast market is the 8400's overclock ability. Im sure intel is aware of that, and it may be a bad business move to ignore it.

Who knows, they could be selling the CPU knowing full well that its stable at 4ghz, and they "underclock" it so that we feel like we are getting 1ghz for free.

Am I totaly wrong here?

Read the first part of Reynod's post below yours, that is exactly why they don't want you OCing...
They might fully appreciate that the E8400 & E8500 are probably running massively below their limits, but they need to take the lowest average user into consideration when they make the CPU's...
i.e. How pissed would you be if you bought it stock at say 3.8/4.0GHz and it's life was shortened becuase of high VCore and you'd planned to keep it for say 5years?
My parents don't upgrade their PC all the time, because they don't need to, I do, becuase I can AND want to!
Also, selling them as OCable chips would completely negate the point of their EE CPU's...
Which they obviously market for the enthusiast! I mean I obviously need a 31x multiplier on my QX6850 anyway! :D 
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February 1, 2008 1:51:52 PM

What so Intel didn't test the temp diode before they sold it?

They didn't know??

I don't think so Tim ???

From a QA perspective they won't be able to sell any of these under Government contracts ....

FIRE HAZZARD !!!

FIRE HAZZARD !!!

FIRE HAZZARD !!!

If the temp diode doesn't work and the system does overheat could they not cause an electrical fire !!!

Gee ... they must care about the customers a bit more than that ... surely??



A COMPLETE RECALL IS THE ONLY WAY OUT INTEL !!!!



February 1, 2008 1:55:25 PM

Reynod said:
What so Intel didn't test the temp diode before they sold it?

They didn't know??

I don't think so Tim ???

From a QA perspective they won't be able to sell any of these under Government contracts ....

FIRE HAZZARD !!!

FIRE HAZZARD !!!

FIRE HAZZARD !!!

If the temp diode doesn't work and the system does overheat could they not cause an electrical fire !!!

Gee ... they must care about the customers a bit more than that ... surely??



A COMPLETE RECALL IS THE ONLY WAY OUT INTEL !!!!



Thanks Thunderboy.
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February 1, 2008 2:01:45 PM

Hope you appreciated my work.

Prayers are on Sunday my child ... your welcome if you wear red.

I will be passing around the plate as the Phenom sales are a bit down and your help keeping our company afloat is appreciated.

May I interest you in a notebook ?? Sales are up in that respect ...
February 1, 2008 2:03:39 PM

LukeBird said:
Read the first part of Reynod's post below yours, that is exactly why they don't want you OCing...
They might fully appreciate that the E8400 & E8500 are probably running massively below their limits, but they need to take the lowest average user into consideration when they make the CPU's...
i.e. How pissed would you be if you bought it stock at say 3.8/4.0GHz and it's life was shortened becuase of high VCore and you'd planned to keep it for say 5years?
My parents don't upgrade their PC all the time, because they don't need to, I do, becuase I can AND want to!
Also, selling them as OCable chips would completely negate the point of their EE CPU's...
Which they obviously market for the enthusiast! I mean I obviously need a 31x multiplier on my QX6850 anyway! :D 



Thanks for the perspective. I appreciate you takin the time to respond.


And reynod is really annoying.
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February 1, 2008 2:09:05 PM

I'm sorry ... I guess i can't interest you in a really fast double cheesburger with an outboard memory controller without a temp gauge?

I'd buy one ... wait ... I'll have to check my home and contents insurance first.

This is sweet vengeance after all of the Intel fanboi crap we have been force fed here for quite some time !!!

But wait ... Intel didn't actually lie to anyone ... did they??

heh heh ...
February 1, 2008 2:18:19 PM

I have no fanboyness in me. I dont care what I have, long as it serves my needs.
a b à CPUs
February 1, 2008 2:22:37 PM

An honest answer ... and a correct one.

Iv'e ordered a small fire extinguisher for my next Intel build though ... just in case.



February 1, 2008 2:27:37 PM

Reynod said:
An honest answer ... and a correct one.

I'll not race you with my Toyota Prius either ... the end result would be more embarrassing for me.



Same here.. You know as well as I do the Q6600 is one of the best deals on the market right now. And until the 3870X2 came out the 8800 GTS G92 was the best bang for the buck. I'm really hoping the RV770 impresses me.

Can we race my Mustang?
February 1, 2008 2:29:16 PM

Reynod said:
An honest answer ... and a correct one.

I'll not race you with my Toyota Prius either ... the end result would be more embarrassing for me.


Come on, your prius versus my volvo. No wait....that would be bad for me. :heink: 

I agree with CNU and Rally. Whatever fits my needs at the time is what I'd get.
February 1, 2008 2:33:29 PM

If its a distance race, you'll win hands down. Im lucky to get 12mpg when I run my high-boost map. ;) 
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February 1, 2008 2:34:10 PM

Crap ... I feel like we are comparing benchies and all Iv'e got is a Cyrix 686 ... with a PCChips mobo.

That was like marrying a block of ice ... made no sense whatsoever.

:) 
a b à CPUs
February 1, 2008 2:34:18 PM

Do not blame the AMD bug on Fanboys/Press. AMD did the stop ship. That is what sticks out. Hey AMD stopped shipping the cpu because of a defect. That and that alone caused most of the fuss about the TLB error
February 1, 2008 2:35:27 PM

rallyimprezive said:
If its a distance race, you'll win hands down. Im lucky to get 12mpg when I run my high-boost map. ;) 


WRX STi?

If I hook it'd be a close one.
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February 1, 2008 2:37:20 PM

Reynod said:
There appear to be some major problems with the new 45nm darling E8400 CPU.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=e8400+temperatur...

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=5460892

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/02/01/...


Shouldn't all of these be recalled and replaced with CPU's that work properly??

Are the chips faulty?


WHAT?!?!?! An Intel processor has an errata issue?!?!?! No effing way! This must be a mistake.

And here I thought it was only AMD processors that have errata. Silly me...
a b à CPUs
February 1, 2008 2:39:54 PM

I didn't think it would be long till you posted ... felt good huh?

heh heh ....
February 1, 2008 2:42:46 PM

cnumartyr said:
WRX STi?

If I hook it'd be a close one.



Just a WRX no STI. The insurance rates would kill me.

I have upgraded to a VF34 ball bearing turbo, up-pipe, down-pipe, cat back exhaust, and engine management. Then a bunch of suspension mods an such.

It would still be a good race though. Id probably get the hole-shot, but then while I wait for boost, your NA torque will pull on me.

Now, I dont know anything about your ride, but Id be willing to bet I could take ya in the twisties if nothing else.

BUT, I do not really want to reduce ourselves to bench racing. Its just nice to see another PC fan thats a gear head too. :) 

And in reference to Mr Prius, he'd kick both our butts in a MPG distance battle. :D 
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February 1, 2008 2:47:09 PM

Actually no.

My Prius has done 30,000 now and I tend to cane it a bit because it is gutless. Running it on premium made no difference.

Kinda like my 4400+ which I have overclocked.

You don't tend to get the mileage (performance per watt) when you drive it like a maniac (oveclocker) ... LOL

So technically cool n quiet is switched off ...
February 1, 2008 2:55:22 PM

rallyimprezive said:
Just a WRX no STI. The insurance rates would kill me.

I have upgraded to a VF34 ball bearing turbo, up-pipe, down-pipe, cat back exhaust, and engine management. Then a bunch of suspension mods an such.

It would still be a good race though. Id probably get the hole-shot, but then while I wait for boost, your NA torque will pull on me.

Now, I dont know anything about your ride, but Id be willing to bet I could take ya in the twisties if nothing else.

BUT, I do not really want to reduce ourselves to bench racing. Its just nice to see another PC fan thats a gear head too. :) 

And in reference to Mr Prius, he'd kick both our butts in a MPG distance battle. :D 


Lol, Nice.. 94 Mustang GT, 5.0L.

Custom SCT Tune, Headers, Xpipe, Cat-back, Aluminum Flywheel, Racing Clutch, Racing Transmission, Aluminum Driveshaft, Cold Air Intake, 4.10 gears, and a few other goodies. I love my car, haha.

And you'd kill me on road course, my car is setup for straight shots. Oh, and I get about 10-15 MPG depending on how I drive it.
February 1, 2008 3:19:48 PM

The 5-0 is a great motor. I love my little four banger and all, but the deep rumble and lumpy idle of a high power 5-0 is just awesome. Sounds like a sweet car.

I like the analogy raynod:

"So technically cool n quiet is switched off ... " LOL

February 1, 2008 3:24:58 PM

Quote:
I wouldnt have a problem with getting one now, I've not seen any real users that claim any performance issues. In fact I've read several articles that after testing say the 9500 at 2.6ghz is just as fast as the Q6600 at 2.6ghz. Of course they dont all overclock as well as the Q6600, but they are A LOT cheaper than the Q6600 as well, averaging about $70 cheaper. Of course I'll be upgrading to the Q6600 because Its as high as I can go with my P965 mobo.


I'm still waiting for the B3 stepping, because I'm waiting on the 780G boards with power saving. I just ordered a 3870x2 from Newegg, and it would not be CPU limited with a Phenom. Nor would it waste juice surfing the net with power saving.

The one thing Nvidia's doing right is enabling IGP's on all their new boards for power saving features. I'd get a 790 board for future CrossfireX with two 3870x2's or one 3870x2 and one R700 if it had an IGP for power saving mode.

Still, I see no insurmountable problems with the B2 Phenom errata. CPU's have errata. Most people do not encounter them and even when they do, it's so much like a typical Vista or XP glitch that it just means a restart.

The biggest complaint I've heard about the Wolfdale's is that there's a shortage of CPU's. Considering I only saw one 3 gigahertz Wolfdale for $229 at Amazon when I last checked, I guess they're having yield issues. We always here about yield issues with AMD, but Chipzilla avoids enthusiast scrutiny. Why is that?

Reynod said:


I will be passing around the plate as the Phenom sales are a bit down and your help keeping our company afloat is appreciated.

May I interest you in a notebook ?? Sales are up in that respect ...


I gave this morning at Newegg when I ordered an MSI 3870x2. For that price I could have gotten a Phenom and a 770 board, but I'm holding out for the 780G with POWER SAVING.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

IMHO, it's not AMD anymore, it's ATI with a CPU division. So why is Hector Ruiz still in charge?
February 1, 2008 3:30:24 PM

yipsl said:
We always here about yield issues with AMD, but Chipzilla avoids enthusiast scrutiny. Why is that?


They have better PR guys
February 1, 2008 3:34:11 PM

Reynod said:
You don't tend to get the mileage (performance per watt) when you drive it like a maniac (oveclocker) ... LOL

So technically cool n quiet is switched off ...


Yea.. mine has C1E and EIST disabled...

I actually hate having mine on a hill. The cluch is an on/off button, there is no slip - all grip. If I get it on a hill and don't do it just right the tires break loose and I'm not even trying to!

Last time I had it dynoed it had about 350 ft/lbs of Torque. I need to get a new 5.0L or a Head Cam and Intake swap on it (adds ~50-60 HP). The stock heads on the 5.0L (non-Cobra) are really restrictive. You can actually pick up heads off a 5.0L Explorer that perform better.
February 1, 2008 4:15:47 PM

Damn, I'm kinda pissed. I was supposed to order an E8400 today, I had to wait for my paycheck to hit my bank account. Now that I have the money, Newegg is out of stock :( 

ETA: 2/11/08

Guess today I'll be ordering from the Tiger.
February 1, 2008 4:42:55 PM

Reynod said:
An honest answer ... and a correct one.

I'll not race you with my Toyota Prius either ... the end result would be more embarrassing for me.


You own a toyota prius..........Have you lost the will to live yet??
February 1, 2008 4:54:04 PM

Reynod said:
Intel sure don't want people to overclock ... that wrecks their upgrade path for future sales.




Yep, they made it that way to scare OCers into sinking money into the more expensive ones. Oh sh*t, we are talking about cars now...
February 1, 2008 5:04:28 PM

Reynod said:
What so Intel didn't test the temp diode before they sold it?

They didn't know??

I don't think so Tim ???

From a QA perspective they won't be able to sell any of these under Government contracts ....

FIRE HAZZARD !!!

FIRE HAZZARD !!!

FIRE HAZZARD !!!

If the temp diode doesn't work and the system does overheat could they not cause an electrical fire !!!

Gee ... they must care about the customers a bit more than that ... surely??



A COMPLETE RECALL IS THE ONLY WAY OUT INTEL !!!!


Is that also the reason why AMD delayed their Phenom 9700+ line, so they can find a way to include a miniature fire extinguisher in the package?
February 1, 2008 5:42:53 PM

No-one has posted the correct answer.
The core temperature sensor diodes are working.
The temperature measurement displayed for the E8000 series is different from the temperature measurement displayed for the E6000 series.

February 1, 2008 5:50:18 PM

zpyrd said:
No-one has posted the correct answer.
The core temperature sensor diodes are working.
The temperature measurement displayed for the E8000 series is different from the temperature measurement displayed for the E6000 series.


Linky plz??

I'm way too tired to look through all the other links... :cry: 
February 1, 2008 5:53:36 PM

Reynod said:
What so Intel didn't test the temp diode before they sold it?

They didn't know??

I don't think so Tim ???

From a QA perspective they won't be able to sell any of these under Government contracts ....

FIRE HAZZARD !!!

FIRE HAZZARD !!!

FIRE HAZZARD !!!

If the temp diode doesn't work and the system does overheat could they not cause an electrical fire !!!

Gee ... they must care about the customers a bit more than that ... surely??



A COMPLETE RECALL IS THE ONLY WAY OUT INTEL !!!!


AW30. Programming the Digital Thermal Sensor (DTS) Threshold May Cause
Unexpected Thermal Interrupts
Problem: Software can enable DTS thermal interrupts by programming the thermal
threshold and setting the respective thermal interrupt enable bit. When
programming DTS value, the previous DTS threshold may be crossed. This
will generate an unexpected thermal interrupt.
Implication: Software may observe an unexpected thermal interrupt occur after
reprogramming the thermal threshold.
Workaround: In the ACPI/OS implement a workaround by temporarily disabling the DTS
threshold interrupt before updating the DTS threshold value.
Status: For the steppings affected, see the Summary Tables of Changes.

http://download.intel.com/design/processor/specupdt/31873302.pdf
Page 27

Word, Playa.
a b à CPUs
February 1, 2008 6:25:18 PM

Its probably not calibrated properly. Easy software/BIOS work around.
February 1, 2008 6:36:58 PM

rallyimprezive said:
Thanks for the perspective. I appreciate you takin the time to respond.

That's quite alright!
Interesting that it developed into car talk... you and your damn yank motors! Unfortunately insurance over here (UK) for me is still horrific, so I'm biding my time until I can buy something faster. Hopefully end of this year or early next I'll be buying a Lotus Elise :) 

February 1, 2008 7:10:11 PM

Elise. Nice. My Volvo V70 looks like a tank compared to the Lotus that parks in my garage. That's gotta be fun throwing that little thing around. Let me know how fun she is when you get 'er.
February 1, 2008 7:49:06 PM

Subaru aint yank.

Edit: And the Lotus would be sweet...very purpose built car no frills. I like the Exige as well.
February 1, 2008 7:56:19 PM

amddiesel said:
but the fanboys sure turn it into a big thing and cause them to lose millions in sales over it.


Nobody listens to fanboys. Except on AMDzone, but they're just preaching to the choir over there, so it's not like they're changing any opinions.
!