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Corsair 620HX and other PSUs - 8800 G92 Power Issues?

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 Thread : Corsair 620HX and other PSUs - 8800 G92 Power Issues?
 
Jaywill
Profile: newbie
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n°1789475
02-01-2008 at 10:39:57 PM

So I got my new build together this week, and everything went great on the first boot. But after installing the Nvidia driver CD for my EVGA 8800GTS 512 (G92) card, on the reboot I got a Nvidia Sentinel message that the card was receiving insufficient power and that the settings would be scaled down to prevent damage to the card. It had me scratching my head since the Corsair 620HX PSU I installed is more than enough power, and I ran the PCI-E power cable directly out of the PSU to the card.

So I started doing some Google searches and found this is FAR from an isolated problem. Here are some reference threads:

http://www.asktheramguy.com/v3/showthread.php?t=66051

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3584

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/for [...] power.html

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1031921280

http://www.yougamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73754

Notable posts:

An email from Antec customer support:

Quote :

We originally noticed this problem with the 8800GTX video cards. Nvidia tested our power supply with the cards to certify them for SLI testing and they passed with flying colors. We sent out a fix when we saw there was a problem, the fix worked and now we are noticing that the newly released 512mb GTS and GT cards are not working with this new revision.

We currently do not have a working version of the TPQ-850, and TPQ-1000 that will work with the Nvidia 8800GT and GTS 512mb video cards. Our engineers are working on a fix for this issue and it is a high priority for us.

When we get the replacements that work we will swap the units out for customers experiencing the incompatibility with the 8800GT and 8800GTS 512MB video cards.

It now seems that this problem is not only with Antec. Other manufacturers are having problems with the G92 card, and their power supplies. Nvidia is now helping Antec, and these other companies to find a solution to the problem.

The power supply will work with any other video card besides the G92 based 8800 series cards.

We apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused.

Antec Customer Support



From a Corsair Rep:

Quote :

We are working with nVidia on this and it's tough to track down because it doesn't follow any logical progression. We can't say "all people with Gigabyte motherboards" or "all people with EVGA graphics cards" or "all people with Corsair PSUs" have this issue, in fact it doesn't seem to be tied to any one component.

The only thing that's clear is that it's some mix of the motherboard, video card, and power supply somehow. I say this because some people RMA the PSU and get a new one and it fixes it, other people RMA the video card and it fixes it, and yet other people change out their motherboard and it fixes it.

The only thing that's clear is that it is ONLY a known issue with G92-based cards so far, but it's not the G92 architecture, because it works fine like 99% of the time.

My theory is that it's a component variance issue, and probably on the voltage monitoring hardware on the GPU itself. The G80 cards have no problems at all, but the G92s do, so I'm trying to work with nVidia to determine what the changes in voltage/power monitoring hardware in the two architectures were and how that could affect us. We've only been able to duplicate it in the lab with a couple of bad video cards that reproduce the error on ANY PSU (enermax, antec, corsair, fsp, whatever) so it can't be just that.

The 7900 series had this issue a lot, too, with some PSU designs, but the 7900 series had a reputation for random failures on some online forums, so it's hard to gauge what's rumor and what's fact.



From Ram Guy (Corsair Product Guru)

Quote :

So far all the cards that have been posted as having this problem are using the G92 core (8800GT 512MB and 8800GTS 512MB), which consume less power than the older 8800 (GTX, Ultra, GTS 320/640) cards which use the G80 core. We are currently working with Nvidia to find out what might be causing these issues so that we can resolve them.



From a Silverstone Rep:

Quote :

Manufacturer Response:Thank you very much for purchasing a SilverStone and I apologize for the inconvenience you have experienced. The new 8800GT and 8800GTS 512MB cards have unique power draw timings that are different from the older cards such as 8800Ultra/GTX/GTS 320MB/640MB. Usually this problem can be solved immediately by connecting the PCI-E cable to another one of four different PCI-E connector slots on the ST1000. If doing this still does not work, we have a new version of ST1000 with adjusted timing that will be available from the week of February 4 for free exchange.




Apparently, the problem boils down this this ...

Quote :

"Okay a little more info... apparently it is a timing issue, when your computer first turns on the PSU sends power down each line and then backs off waiting for the computer to start the boot process. With the G92 cards they are expecting to see this at a different time than when they are actually getting the signal and it causes them to think they are underpowered so they clock themselves back"



Soooooo .... has anyone else been dealing with this or heard about it? I was surprised not to have heard about this when I was researching the components for the new system I built. You'd think such a big compatibility issue would be more "out there" and in your face.

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by Jaywill on 02-01-2008 at 10:57:55 PM
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Jaywill
Profile: newbie
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n°1789480
02-01-2008 at 10:55:38 PM

Double post


Message edited by Jaywill on 02-01-2008 at 10:56:41 PM
Obi-Wan-Sh inobi
Profile: stranger
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n°1789531
02-02-2008 at 02:09:27 AM

I have the one down from you, the HX520. And it powers mine fine. System is:

Intel C2D e6750
MSI P35 Neo2-FR
2GB Geil Black Dragon 6400
Point of View 8800GT 512mb
2X250GB SATA Drives
1X500GB SATA Drive

ozworth
Profile: stranger
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n°1789868
02-03-2008 at 11:27:45 AM

The hx520 is also affected by this problem.It strikes randomly on many psu's which is making it very difficult to nail the problem down.I have this same problem with my hiper type r 580w.Ive had this problem for 4 weeks and have tryed everything i could to resolve it.I would like to buy a new psu but will be waiting a little bit more to see if a fix comes.I think you should give corsair a call since they are aware of this and they seem to me to be more than helpfull.I think this is the most important thing when you have these problems as when i called hiper they just told me to buy a new psu which definetly wont be theirs.

aejec
Profile: stranger
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n°1790136
02-04-2008 at 08:19:49 PM

Here's another setup which doesn't work:

Asus P5KC + Inno3d 8800 GT 512Mb + Antec TPQ 850

Looking forward to the fix!

chunkymons ter
My ass does all my talking!
Profile: nimble knuckle
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n°1790148
02-04-2008 at 09:05:44 PM

Jaywill wrote :

So I got my new build together this week...EVGA 8800GTS 512 (G92) card, on the reboot I got a Nvidia Sentinel message that the card was receiving insufficient power and...the Corsair 620HX PSU I installed is more than enough power




While your PSU may have enough WATTS to power your rig, the EVGA 8800GTS 512 requires at least 26amps on the 12v rail. Per the EVGA website...


Quote :




Requirements

http://www.evga.com/images/common/blt_subnav.gif
Minimum of a 400 Watt power supply.[size=0]
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 26 Amp Amps.)
Minimum 450 Watt for SLI mode system.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 30 Amp Amps.)
http://www.evga.com/images/common/blt_subnav.gif
An available 6 pin PCI-E power connector (hard drive power dongle to PCI-E 6 pin adapter included with card)



According to Corsair, the 620HX only has 18amps available on the 12v rail.


Quote :




CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX - +3.3@24A,+5V@30A,+12V1@18A,+12V2@18A,+12V3@18A,- 12V@0.8A,+5VSB@3A



Sorry Charlie, your PSU is inadequate. That's a tough lesson to learn but it helps to research these things before making the purchase.

Message quoted 4 times
Message edited by chunkymons ter on 02-04-2008 at 09:11:14 PM

---------------
Candy asked me if she died if I could go on
Of course I said I couldn't and of course we knew that's wrong
But Candy I said Candy no you can't do that to me
Because you love me way to much for you to ever leave
bob8701
Profile: enthusiast
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n°1790152
02-04-2008 at 09:16:23 PM

I believe video card recommands the power supply requirement is for total current on 12 volt rail, not the single rail. I found out the G92 card draw less power than 80w( it is abot 7A on 12 volt rail).

homerdog
Overclocked and Undervolted
Profile: nimble knuckle
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n°1790156
02-04-2008 at 09:31:26 PM

chunkymonster wrote :

While your PSU may have enough WATTS to power your rig, the EVGA 8800GTS 512 requires at least 26amps on the 12v rail. Per the EVGA website...

According to Corsair, the 620HX only has 18amps available on the 12v rail.

Sorry Charlie, your PSU is inadequate. That's a tough lesson to learn but it helps to research these things before making the purchase.


This just goes to show you that someone can have well over 1000 posts and still not know WTF he is talking about :sol:

Message quoted 1 times
ZOldDude
Republic of California
Profile: nimble knuckle
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n°1790157
02-04-2008 at 09:33:29 PM

Quote :

Usually this problem can be solved immediately by connecting the PCI-E cable to another one of four different PCI-E connector slots on the ST1000.


This is why I pay the extra money for a well regulated single rail PSU and only build with PC Power & Cooling.
Even the $109 USD 610 puts out a -constant rated- 49 Amps on the 12V line with it all being usable unlike multi rail systems.


---------------
*While we crash and burn, small, low tech, agrarian societies such as the Hmong in the mountains of Laos will continue on without so much as blinking an eye.*
ZOldDude
Republic of California
Profile: nimble knuckle
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n°1790158
02-04-2008 at 09:34:18 PM

Quote :

Usually this problem can be solved immediately by connecting the PCI-E cable to another one of four different PCI-E connector slots on the ST1000.


This is why I pay the extra money for a well regulated single rail PSU and only build with PC Power & Cooling.
Even the $109 USD 610 puts out a -constant rated- 49 Amps on the 12V line with it all being usable unlike multi rail systems.

Message quoted 1 times

---------------
*While we crash and burn, small, low tech, agrarian societies such as the Hmong in the mountains of Laos will continue on without so much as blinking an eye.*
leon2006
Profile: member
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n°1790163
02-04-2008 at 10:29:06 PM

I have this issue when my PC comes out of sleep mode. For now i kind of ignor it and continue with what ever i want to do with my pc.

During normal power-up i dont encounter this problem or message from my video card:

Video card : BFG 8800GT OC 512
CPU: Q6600:
MB: Asus Maximus Formula
Memory: 4 GBYTE
PS: ANTEC QUATRO 850: I know i have sufficient PS for this card.
OS: Vista Ultimate 64

Any recommendation?


badgtx1969
I'm bad, I'm nationwide
Profile: enthusiast
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n°1790172
02-04-2008 at 11:26:14 PM

chunkymonster wrote :

While your PSU may have enough WATTS to power your rig, the EVGA 8800GTS 512 requires at least 26amps on the 12v rail. Per the EVGA website...

 

According to Corsair, the 620HX only has 18amps available on the 12v rail.

 

Sorry Charlie, your PSU is inadequate. That's a tough lesson to learn but it helps to research these things before making the purchase.

 

FYI - the 3 rails are not fully independent, the maximum output rating is ~50 Amps at 12v (620 W). 18.5 amps/rail is the ATX PSU standard to prevent wire overheating.

 
homerdog wrote :

This just goes to show you that someone can have well over 1000 posts and still not know WTF he is talking about :sol:

 

No sh*t :sarcastic:


Message edited by badgtx1969 on 02-04-2008 at 11:26:54 PM

---------------
Take what man makes and use it,
But do not worship it,
For it shall pass.
chunkymons ter
My ass does all my talking!
Profile: nimble knuckle
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n°1790181
02-04-2008 at 11:42:32 PM

Quote :

 

badgtx1969 wrote :

 

FYI - the 3 rails are not fully independent, the maximum output rating is ~50 Amps at 12v (620 W). 18.5 amps/rail is the ATX PSU standard to prevent wire overheating.

 


Uhh, NO! Wrong answer!

Quote :

 


These are the so-called "multiple power supply rails". They are not
fully independent; they are all connected to a single high-current 12V
source inside the power supply, but have separate current limit
circuitry. The current limit groups are documented so the user can
avoid placing too many high-current loads in the same group.


Seperate current limit circuitry. Hmmm, I wonder what that means?!

 
Quote :

 


This just goes to show you that someone can have well over 1000 posts and still not know WTF he is talking about


Assume I have a 200amp 120/240v 1phase service running from the street to my house. By your logic, a single circuit running thru my house can pull all 200amps from the electrical panel. But I'm pretty EFFING sure that the 15AMP CIRCUIT BREAKER will trip and/or fail by "breaking" the circuit when that circuit gets over 15amps of load.

 

Whatever...stoopid newbs...FAIL!

 

To the OP, be careful with what some folks here tell you. Nothing replaces taking the few extra minutes to research the topic. Google and Wikipedia are quick and easy ways to get 80% of the answers you need.

Message quoted 3 times
Message edited by chunkymons ter on 02-04-2008 at 11:49:07 PM

---------------
Candy asked me if she died if I could go on
Of course I said I couldn't and of course we knew that's wrong
But Candy I said Candy no you can't do that to me
Because you love me way to much for you to ever leave
homerdog
Overclocked and Undervolted
Profile: nimble knuckle
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n°1790205
02-05-2008 at 02:51:41 AM

chunkymonster wrote :

To the OP, be careful with what some folks here tell you.


You got that right ;)

To the OP: Single 12V rail PSUs are preferable, but a well made multi-rail unit such as the Corsair HX620 is perfectly fine. In fact, the HX620 is more than fine; it is one of the highest quality PSUs on the market.

Message quoted 2 times
joseph85
Profile: newbie
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n°1790218
02-05-2008 at 04:07:46 AM

homerdog wrote :

You got that right ;)

To the OP: Single 12V rail PSUs are preferable, but a well made multi-rail unit such as the Corsair HX620 is perfectly fine. In fact, the HX620 is more than fine; it is one of the highest quality PSUs on the market.


Other than the obvious manufacturing problems stated in op, sure.

Message quoted 1 times
homerdog
Overclocked and Undervolted
Profile: nimble knuckle
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n°1790232
02-05-2008 at 05:44:39 AM

joseph85 wrote :

Other than the obvious manufacturing problems stated in op, sure.


You might want to reread the original post.

bob8701
Profile: enthusiast
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n°1790276
02-05-2008 at 02:44:28 PM

if this kind problem only happen with corsiar 620 and ANTEC QUATRO 850, I believe it is design problem, since both psu are made by seasonic.
when OP find out the problem, the video card is on 2D mode. so the current it draw is way less than it running on 3d mode. so "the psu is inadequate" does not mmake any sense. The video card must has a sensor to reading the voltage from the psu, if the senor does not read correct data on time, it will give the error.
I just read the whole OP post. it is clear a timing problem.

miffy
Profile: newbie
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n°1790280
02-05-2008 at 03:13:39 PM

chunkymonster wrote :

Uhh, NO! Wrong answer!

Seperate current limit circuitry. Hmmm, I wonder what that means?!


Assume I have a 200amp 120/240v 1phase service running from the street to my house. By your logic, a single circuit running thru my house can pull all 200amps from the electrical panel. But I'm pretty EFFING sure that the 15AMP CIRCUIT BREAKER will trip and/or fail by "breaking" the circuit when that circuit gets over 15amps of load.

Whatever...stoopid newbs...FAIL!

To the OP, be careful with what some folks here tell you. Nothing replaces taking the few extra minutes to research the topic. Google and Wikipedia are quick and easy ways to get 80% of the answers you need.



I have the one down the Corsair 520 HX and the exact same Graphics card, with a E6750, GA-DS3L 2gb Crucial Ram etc etc.. and have no problems what so ever. I highly doubt that the PSU is at fault..UNLESS it's faulty. My machine runs flawlessly and has a nice big overclock on it. I would say follow the info you've been given and either RMA the PSU or Card and see if it resolves the problem.

zenmaster
Profile: Ancient Poster
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n°1790282
02-05-2008 at 03:24:11 PM
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