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Yet another antenna question

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Anonymous
June 14, 2005 7:04:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I seem to live at the center of DTV in Southern CA. Seems I'll need an
antenna that can receive from two almost opposite directions, with one side
having a cone of about 30 degrees.

My problem is, I'm not wild about the idea of an antenna rotor. The last
thing I need is another remote, something else to fiddle with when I want to
switch from KCAL to KNBC, not to mention the fact that my DVR isn't likely
to control the thing when nobody's home.

So, is there a UHF antenna that can get signals from both directions? Or
can I hook up two or three UHF antennas to the same feed without screwing up
the signal?

Thanks,

Pagan

More about : antenna question

Anonymous
June 15, 2005 1:57:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Pagan wrote:
> I seem to live at the center of DTV in Southern CA. Seems I'll need an
> antenna that can receive from two almost opposite directions, with one side
> having a cone of about 30 degrees.
>
> So, is there a UHF antenna that can get signals from both directions? Or
> can I hook up two or three UHF antennas to the same feed without screwing up
> the signal?

I don't think you'll get too far trying to route multiple antennas into a
single feed line.

But most antennas will have their strongest rejection at 90 degrees from
their forward direction. At 180 degrees, they will be able to pull in
signals fairly well - not as strong as the forward direction obviously,
but perhaps strong enough for your purposes.

As someone else suggested, you can check out antennaweb.org, but there's
really no substitute for trying it out yourself. Put up a UHF antenna
that faces into the middle of that 30 degree span, and let the back of it
face the remaining station(s). If it works, great. If not, try an
amplifier. Tinker with the position and direction a bit. If you simply
can't get it to pull in all the signals, then you may have to go to a
rotor.

Either that or get cable. <g>
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 1:57:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:42af8b22$0$14614$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Pagan wrote:
> > I seem to live at the center of DTV in Southern CA. Seems I'll need an
> > antenna that can receive from two almost opposite directions, with one
side
> > having a cone of about 30 degrees.
> >
> > So, is there a UHF antenna that can get signals from both directions?
Or
> > can I hook up two or three UHF antennas to the same feed without
screwing up
> > the signal?
>
> I don't think you'll get too far trying to route multiple antennas into a
> single feed line.
>
> But most antennas will have their strongest rejection at 90 degrees from
> their forward direction. At 180 degrees, they will be able to pull in
> signals fairly well - not as strong as the forward direction obviously,
> but perhaps strong enough for your purposes.

Does this include the so-called 'bowtie' antenna, such as Channel Master's
4228? http://www.channelmaster.com/images/4228.jpg

> As someone else suggested, you can check out antennaweb.org, but there's
> really no substitute for trying it out yourself. Put up a UHF antenna
> that faces into the middle of that 30 degree span, and let the back of it
> face the remaining station(s). If it works, great. If not, try an
> amplifier. Tinker with the position and direction a bit. If you simply
> can't get it to pull in all the signals, then you may have to go to a
> rotor.

Which amplifier would you suggest? I'm somewhat restricted as to the size
of antenna I can put on the house. It has to meet the WAF (Wife Approval
Factor). heh

> Either that or get cable. <g>

I already have Dish Network, but their offering of HD channels is limited.

Thanks for the tips.

Pagan
Related resources
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 2:48:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Go to antennaweb.org . Type in your address and it will figure out which
antenna you need. It also explains a bunch about antennas. You can get
multi-directional UHF antennas.

noone


"Pagan" <adsa@deputysheriff.org> wrote in message
news:11auktctmjk22ef@corp.supernews.com...
> I seem to live at the center of DTV in Southern CA. Seems I'll need an
> antenna that can receive from two almost opposite directions, with one
side
> having a cone of about 30 degrees.
>
> My problem is, I'm not wild about the idea of an antenna rotor. The last
> thing I need is another remote, something else to fiddle with when I want
to
> switch from KCAL to KNBC, not to mention the fact that my DVR isn't likely
> to control the thing when nobody's home.
>
> So, is there a UHF antenna that can get signals from both directions? Or
> can I hook up two or three UHF antennas to the same feed without screwing
up
> the signal?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pagan
>
>
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 3:38:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Pagan (adsa@deputysheriff.org) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > But most antennas will have their strongest rejection at 90 degrees from
> > their forward direction. At 180 degrees, they will be able to pull in
> > signals fairly well - not as strong as the forward direction obviously,
> > but perhaps strong enough for your purposes.
>
> Does this include the so-called 'bowtie' antenna, such as Channel Master's
> 4228? http://www.channelmaster.com/images/4228.jpg

Absolutely. This antenna has a huge drop at 90° off axis, but only about
6-10 dB at 180°.

--
Jeff Rife | "The only petitions that I sign are to bring back
| canceled sitcoms, thank you. America needs the
| wisdom of 'Herman's Head' now more than ever."
| -- Comic Book Guy, "The Simpsons"
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 11:46:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Pagan wrote:
> "Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
> news:42af8b22$0$14614$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>>
>>But most antennas will have their strongest rejection at 90 degrees from
>>their forward direction. At 180 degrees, they will be able to pull in
>>signals fairly well - not as strong as the forward direction obviously,
>>but perhaps strong enough for your purposes.
>
> Does this include the so-called 'bowtie' antenna, such as Channel Master's
> 4228? http://www.channelmaster.com/images/4228.jpg

Based on the design of the antenna, I would guess so. It is likely that
Channel Master can give you some very complete specs for the antenna's
reception/rejection characteristics if you ask for them. I've never used
an antenna like that one - we have some of our DTV stations on VHF here,
so I use a VHF/UHF antenna with a very different design.

>>As someone else suggested, you can check out antennaweb.org, but there's
>>really no substitute for trying it out yourself. Put up a UHF antenna
>>that faces into the middle of that 30 degree span, and let the back of it
>>face the remaining station(s). If it works, great. If not, try an
>>amplifier. Tinker with the position and direction a bit. If you simply
>>can't get it to pull in all the signals, then you may have to go to a
>>rotor.
>
> Which amplifier would you suggest? I'm somewhat restricted as to the size
> of antenna I can put on the house. It has to meet the WAF (Wife Approval
> Factor). heh

I can't help you much there. I use an inexpensive amplifier that I
bought at Walmart ($30) and it seems to work fine. There may be others
that are much better though, I don't know.

>>Either that or get cable. <g>
>
> I already have Dish Network, but their offering of HD channels is limited.

That's why I said cable. <g> Most cable systems are gradually coming up
to speed with DTV and HDTV channels. My local cable system hasn't picked
up our UPN station yet, but all the others are there.
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 10:14:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Pagan" <adsa@deputysheriff.org> wrote in
news:11auktctmjk22ef@corp.supernews.com:

> I seem to live at the center of DTV in Southern CA. Seems I'll need
> an antenna that can receive from two almost opposite directions, with
> one side having a cone of about 30 degrees.
>
> My problem is, I'm not wild about the idea of an antenna rotor. The
> last thing I need is another remote, something else to fiddle with
> when I want to switch from KCAL to KNBC, not to mention the fact that
> my DVR isn't likely to control the thing when nobody's home.
>
> So, is there a UHF antenna that can get signals from both directions?
> Or can I hook up two or three UHF antennas to the same feed without
> screwing up the signal?


You might want to look here. I'm not sure how good the amp is, but the
design looks like it should do what you want with no rotor required (or
even useful). If you need more cable than is supplied, use RG6.

http://www.starkelectronic.com/womni.htm

--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
God is an evolutionist.
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 6:09:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 23:38:56 -0400, Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:

>Pagan (adsa@deputysheriff.org) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>> > But most antennas will have their strongest rejection at 90 degrees from
>> > their forward direction. At 180 degrees, they will be able to pull in
>> > signals fairly well - not as strong as the forward direction obviously,
>> > but perhaps strong enough for your purposes.
>>
>> Does this include the so-called 'bowtie' antenna, such as Channel Master's
>> 4228? http://www.channelmaster.com/images/4228.jpg
>
>Absolutely. This antenna has a huge drop at 90° off axis, but only about
>6-10 dB at 180°.

4228 would be a poor choice for stations in opposite directions..

Check out "Radiation patterns", Channel Master 4228 8-BAY" in
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html

180 degrees.... -30dB (-16dB over unity.. Bad news)

He would be better off with a UHF YAGI with a Corner reflector
Like a CM 4248 or a Radio shack RS 15-2160.

180 degrees... -20dB (-8dB over unity, better).

Connect it to a mast mounted antenna amp.
Point antenna in direction with most distant stations.
Rear lobe should pickup closer stations, (up to 25 - 35miles.).
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 8:03:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Tim Keating (NotForJunkEmail@directinternet11.com1) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> >Absolutely. This antenna has a huge drop at 90° off axis, but only about
> >6-10 dB at 180°.
>
> 4228 would be a poor choice for stations in opposite directions..
>
> Check out "Radiation patterns", Channel Master 4228 8-BAY" in
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html
>
> 180 degrees.... -30dB (-16dB over unity.. Bad news)

Yes, I've seen those computer-generated model graphs before, too, but it
doesn't match the real world performance for 180° off-axis.

--
Jeff Rife | "You may find this strange, but I think body
| piercing is a good thing. It gives us a
| quick way to tell that people ain't right,
| just by lookin' at 'em."
| -- Hank Hill, "King of the Hill"
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 8:42:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 16:03:03 -0400, Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:

>Tim Keating (NotForJunkEmail@directinternet11.com1) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>> >Absolutely. This antenna has a huge drop at 90° off axis, but only about
>> >6-10 dB at 180°.
>>
>> 4228 would be a poor choice for stations in opposite directions..
>>
>> Check out "Radiation patterns", Channel Master 4228 8-BAY" in
>> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html
>>
>> 180 degrees.... -30dB (-16dB over unity.. Bad news)
>
>Yes, I've seen those computer-generated model graphs before, too, but it
>doesn't match the real world performance for 180° off-axis.


define real world ;) 

Not everyone lives at the same test range facility.
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 8:46:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Pagan" <adsa@deputysheriff.org> wrote in message
news:11av6d0al0736df@corp.supernews.com...
> "Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
> news:42af8b22$0$14614$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>
> Which amplifier would you suggest? I'm somewhat restricted as to the size
> of antenna I can put on the house. It has to meet the WAF (Wife Approval
> Factor). heh
>
> Pagan
>

Just tell your wife that she will be in violation of FCC Over-the-Air
Reception Devices Rule 47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000 if she objects to you
installing an antenna that is big enough to do the job. :-)

That ought to do the trick, right? ;-)
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 3:12:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

(captain_marconi@RCA-AnalogRightsPirates.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> >Yes, I've seen those computer-generated model graphs before, too, but it
> >doesn't match the real world performance for 180° off-axis.
>
>
> define real world ;) 

Well, it's a tough one, but there is enough anecdotal evidence for the
CM4228 that there are some places close to 180° off-axis that are down
less than 20dB...maybe around 15dB. It may not be perfect (say 160° off-
axis), but there's lot of leak there.

But the 90° off-axis does follow the model that CM published...it's down
as much as 60dB.

--
Jeff Rife | "I'll be back in five or six days."
|
| "No, you'll be back in five or six pieces."
| -- "The Lost World"
October 11, 2009 3:12:45 AM

Buy or make 2 antennas / aim each in the direction you want to recieve from an using short coax from each feed into the output side (has 2 coax fittings) and on the imput side run coax down to your tv. you will be amazed at the results.
!