Best AGP card for Dell 8250...please advise...

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C

codasleuth

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Hey everyone, I'm new to this board and would really appreciate some help. I've got an old Dell 8250 that was given to me and I really want to make it run the best it possibly can. I can afford adding on a few things, and I've already made some of the purchases.

It has a 2.5ghz Pentium 4 and uses the old RDRAM, so I added a gig to top it off at the 1.5gb pc1066 RDRAM. It's blazing fast now and I want to upgrade the video card but am having some conflicts.

I have one AGP slot available, and I'm pretty sure it is 4x. I don't have any other slots open, so whatever video card I get needs to be a single slot solution. But please, if I had another slot open to be used for a two level video card, which would i get then also? (I might decide to remove my firewire pci card which fills the slot beneath my video card)

I've come across a lot of possibilities, and I was hoping you all could set me straight. Just so you know, I'll be adding a 410watt (450 peak) power supply to replace the 250watt that came with it.

I want the best I can get considering my limitations. Factoring in my ram, processor, and psu, and the fact I have an AGP 4x slot, what is the very best I can get?

Here is what I have narrowed down to, but please, if these are just wrong for me please let me know, and if you have other suggestions, please list them. I need help!!!

This is the power supply I am getting:
http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/silencer-410-dell-2.html

These are the video cards I am considering:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?CurImage=14-150-233-09.jpg&Image=14-150-233-09.jpg%2c14-150-233-02.jpg%2c14-150-233-03.jpg%2c14-150-233-04.jpg%2c14-150-233-05.jpg%2c14-150-233-06.jpg%2c14-150-233-07.jpg%2c14-150-233-08.jpg&S7ImageFlag=0&Depa=0&Description=XFX+GeForce+7600GT+PVT73AUDF3+Video+Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161071\

http://www.amazon.com/XFX-GeForce-7950GT-550MHz-512MB/dp/B000P7NDN4

http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/products/products_overview.php?gpid=175&grp=2

Am I on the right track or have I gone too far? Some of these say they are 8x or 4x or 2x AGP, so it should work with my slot, right? (or do all 8x work in 4x?) I know I may have some "bottlenecking" going on, but please feel free to school me on what I need to know given my situation of what I have.

Thanks a lot everyone!!!

By the way, right now all I have is an ATI Radeon 9500 Pro (or maybe it's a 9700???)


 
N

n3zyd

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this will tell you your card http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/
GPU-Z Video card GPU Information Utility
what is your OS If you have win 98 you may have driver issues with some newer agp cards
I have yet to see a 8x agp card that won't work on a 4x agp buss
yes you can get some more life out of your dell by upgrading your gpu, but your cpu is going to be a bad bottleneck
Get the 7600 or the 1950pro.
the 7950 is overkill for your cpu



 
C

codasleuth

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Thanks for all the input. Is there any reason I should go for a card with one DVI and one VGA instead of the dual DVI?
 
Bache

Bache

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Don't buy a dell inthe first place - they work OK as long as u don't want to upgrade with most available options!
 
kpo6969

kpo6969

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I guess I'll put mine in the trash then.
 
frost_fenix

frost_fenix

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there was a point when dell was using proprietary plug setup for their rigs and id didnt know that when i was trying to upgrade one and lost the mobo. so be careful when upgrading your PSU because if your mobo is one of those shoddy dell proprietary ones you may lose it and if that happens you are going to be building a completely new rig.
 
kpo6969

kpo6969

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That was some years ago.
Most now take a standard ATX psu. I use a PC Power and Cooling myself.
The only thing "shoddy" about the mobos is that the bios is locked. Alot are made for Dell by Foxconn.
As long as your careful about what you get there are upgrade options.
 
C

codasleuth

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The PSU I ordered is said to fit the 8250 model by Dell in all ways, so I'm not concerned with that. I'm really focused on getting the very best card for what I am capable of running. I would like to have the dual DVI, but one of the cards recommended to me has one VGA and one DVI...is losing the other DVI no big deal if the car makes up for it in overall power? I don't understand why one of the cards recommended to me has dual DVI, and the other one doesn't.

Please explain.

For example: The Sapphire 2600 has one DVI and one VGA, but the XFX GeForce 7600GT has dual DVI. If the Sapphire 2600 is a better card, why only one DVI? Also, the person who suggested that the XFX GeForce 7950GT was too much for my computer (bottleneck issues), why would someone else suggest the Sapphire 2600 anyways? Won't that kind of have the same issues?

Still confused on which I should get...

It would be nice to have the dual DVI...I plan on running one into my lcd computer monitor and one into my plasma tv. I'm willing to sacrifice one of the DVI outs if it is worth having the better graphical power (if having the VGA instead of second DVI gives me more)



 
kpo6969

kpo6969

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Are you going to be running dual (two) monitors with DVI outputs?
The card I linked can run 2 DVI monitors with the supplied adapter.
The card has 1 DVI output and 1 VGA output that can be used with a DVI monitor with the adapter.
That's the difference.
Do you even have 2 monitors or are planning to in the future?
 
C

codasleuth

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I have one monitor with DVI, and I'll be getting a new plasma TV with DVI in here soon, and I want to use my comp as my media center to watch all my stuff (I have 1.5TB of audio and video). That's the reason I want the second DVI.

As for the card with the one DVI and one VGA...I don't understand how it makes sense that the VGA can be turned into DVI using an adapter. I thought you could only do that in reverse (from DVI to VGA)

 
C

codasleuth

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Wow, very cool. Okay, so I guess you all have really narrowed things down for me and focused my vision...but I'm still unsure of which to get out of all the recommendations posted here. Each post has been educational, but each raises new questions.

As for the most recent response, yes, the card is going to be used for video, but man it sure would be great for it to kick decent ass in the gaming area as well. I would have thought the best card for me would just be the best card for me in both areas anyways...

What do you think everyone? Please go over everything you've seen posted here and give me your thoughts on why THE card I should get is THE card I should get. Overall quality, usage for video and gaming, decent/easy/understandable interface for switching my outputs, and taking up a single slot in my AGP 4x based machine. (if I should get a card that takes up another slot for usage of a fan, tell me why)

Kinda sounds like I'm asking the original question again but I'm not. Now that you all have put in your opinions, reread what each other said one more time and give me some kind of unified consensus on which one is THE one for me. I mean, man you guys must really know your stuff...but you are all recommending different cards!!!

I was almost set on a different one but then this most recent post was put up...man this is frustrating!

Thanks again everyone. (and by the way, this is a gift for my wife...she's an avid gamer, and she has no idea I'm doing all this to the computer. She's going to FREAK)
 
C

codasleuth

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Okay everyone, I have to start this thread again and see what you all think.

Now that the Sapphire HD 3850 has finally been put on the Sapphire website and is available for sale, I was able to look at the specs of it and I'm a little concerned.

The last word on this forum was for me to get this card, but the requirements seem to add up against me in regards to the power supply.

I purchased a
http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/silencer-410-dell-2.html

This is the highest-powered PSU that is made specifically for my motherboard. It seems to fall a little bit short of the power requirements of the GPU. According to Sapphire:

System Requirement:
* AGP based PC is required with one 4X/8X AGP slot available on the motherboard.
* 1GB or greater system memory for better performance.
* 450Watt or greater power supply with 30Amps on 12 volt with 2x4 power connector recommanded.

I have 1.5gb of pc1066 RDRAM in my P4, 2.5ghz machine.
My power supply is now a 410Watt power supply (with a 450Watt peak), and only has 23Amps on the +12V rail.

-Will I still be able to use this card despite being a little underpowered from my PSU?

-How much will this lack of power from the PSU really affect the performance of the card or my machine overall?

-Am I understanding the power info wrong for my power supply?

-Is there a more powerful power supply made for my Dell 8250 motherboard?

Please advise further. Thanks again everyone.
 
N

Naw-yi

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the sapphire hd 3850 would be the best pick, 4x agp, also 256bit. dont worry about that bottleneck, unless they come out with bottleneck detecting software, then bottlenecking is just a speculation.
your running some fast rdram w/this your card will preform faster than some ddr and ddr2. check here to see if how much power u will need...
www.extreme.outervision.com
 
C

codasleuth

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Umm...don't really want to pay for some sort of software to tell me all that info...I just need someone to tell me if my having only 23amps on the 12volt rail is enough to power this card when the manufacturer "recommends" a PSU with 30amps on the 12volt rail.

Will I be okay or not?
 
N

NeedAV8

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10 to 1 the power supply you bought will work fine. Nonetheless, I would get the video card from a dealer that allows returns just in case. I had a Dell 8200 and ended up with an x800xt. I went through the same questions you ask regarding power supply and its capabilities to power the card. I ended up using the stock power supply and it worked fine. I also run 2 dvd drives, 2 hard drives, a PCI slot fan, a creative 5.1 gamer audio card, a SIIG ethernet/usb/firewire pci card, a belkin USB ethernet adapter, and a 3.5 inch front mount temp gauge. Also upgraded from a 2.53 to a 3.06 hyperthreaded CPU along with the A09 hyperthread bios. Guess I could say, its maxed out. I have never had a problem even though the power supply was not rated to power that load. Your supply would beat mine hands down.
Getting the fastest agp card, even in your machine, will payoff, SOMETIMES and at some resolutions. There are certainly games that are not CPU hogs that will get better framerates in your machine with the 3850 then with some of the others you listed. There are many games that will not be able to fully utilize that card using a 2.53GHz Northwood (FSX for instance). So, I would say that the 3850 will be the best you can do with that CPU but that CPU is really not good enough for the 3850 in many games you may play. You could upgrade the CPU to the 3.06 and it would improve things a bit (again for some games). Decide what you want to play and at what resolution.
I can play FS2004, Half Life 2, Battlefield 2, Need for Speed Carbon at 1280x1024 with my 3.06 and x800xt pretty much maxed out with good frame rates. I cannot play Call of Duty 2, Command and Conquer Generals, Crysis, World at War, or FSX maxed out because my frame rates will dip down well below 10 FPS.
 
M

mountedpatrolman

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I have a Precision 350 with 3.06Ghz HT CPU 1Gb of PC1066 and had the 7950GT till the fan went out and the card self destructed. RMA'd it and they are telling me they don't have anymore!!!, so you won't be able to get one anyway, but my cpu never really seemed to bottle neck that card. If they give me a refund I am getting the HD3850 even though I despise ATI. My computer is the same as an 8250 and it has a standard ATX 20 pin Power supply. from what I have read dell started using standard ATX supplies after 2000.
 
C

codasleuth

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Wow, thanks so much NeedAV8, your post was very informative.

Okay, I did want to venture into updating my processor to the best one possible, but I'm not too good with that sort of thing. Well, the right thing to say is that I've just never tried, so I'm hesitant to mess around with that major part of the computer. I learn well, and can apply what I learn well, but I'm still hesitant cause I don't to fry this thing by doing something wrong.

First of all, what is the maximum processor I can put into my Dell 8250? I'm pretty sure I have the 2.53ghz P4 (I'm on a different computer right now, so I don't remember...now that I think about it I think it is actually a 2.40ghz P4)

-Is the 3.06ghz P4 the highest I can go for my motherboard?
-What about the Intel Core 2 Duo ...can my board support that?
-I know they made a 8250 stock with the 3.06 P4, but I'm not sure if my motherboard is the same as that...is it?
-Can I simply upgrade?
-Where should I buy one from?
-How difficult is it to do myself?
-What do I do about the bios?
-Can I get it done somewhere if I'm paranoid about doing it myself?

Further advice appreciated. Thanks everyone.
 
pauldh

pauldh

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Don't spend too much on a GPU for that rig. Honestly, the CPU is below minimum spec for many new games. A 3850 would very often be a waste. Forget the 7950GT as a X1950 pro is now outperforming it for less money. But the X1950 pro is too expensive. IMO you will not benefit from more than a $100 card, the best being the HD2600XT. Even that will often be a waste but unless you can find a 7600GT or 7800GS for a good bit cheaper, may as well grab the the faster 2600XT.

Few people hold onto rigs longer than me. But there comes a time when you need to limit what you put into a machine. You already did rdram and a PSU. Now there are talks of a $200 GPU and a processor upgrade. In the end you will have spent how much and end up with a machine slower than any single core Athlon 64.

My vote is the cheapest 7600GT you can find, even used. If it gets over $75, then consider the HD2600XT for $100.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102711

Item is out of stock but was just under $100 shipped. The 512MB one is about $120 and in stock (linked above too).
 
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codasleuth

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Okay, thanks for that bit of advice, but just to clarify...

This computer, when it just had the 1/2 gig of ram in it, worked just great for what we needed. But, after adding a few internal 500gb hard drives loaded to the brim with media, I found the computer to be a little too slow. After adding the extra gig of pc1066 rdram, it's blazing fast and I'm extremely pleased with it's performance. My wife accesses the 3 hard drives and uses Adobe Photoshop CS3 Expanded, Adobe Lightroom, and Windows Media Player 11 all the time in unison, and adding the ram and power supply has made the most amazing difference.

I was just looking to top it all off with making it so that she can enjoy the games she currently has to the fullest potential she can now enjoy, and maybe make it so she can get a few more with somewhat higher system requirements. It's okay not to be able to play Crysis at full settings and all of that nonsense.

As to building a new computer from scratch with more modern parts, well, we simply don't need a top of the line gaming rig. We use our XBOX 360 for that. I simply want a great video card and processor to make it so we can last another 3 years with fair enjoyment on this machine. With the price of data storage dropping so fast, I'll be needing to upgrade our storage long before our computer. I'm running 1.5tb right now...but at the rate I'm going, and at the rate data storage is dropping, those three internal 500gb seagates will be three internal 2tb seagates. Loaded too, I'm sure.

I figure we could get at least 3 more efficient years out of this system for our everyday and professional lives before our needs warrant a significantly more powerful computer, and when we do it'll be a huge as well as cheap upgrade for us given how prices are dropping on new tech. Considering a new XBOX will surely be close to market by then (or some other upgraded platform), that is what would be purchased for playing any extremely powerful games. The leap the XBOX made from it's first to second inception was huge, and I'm sure the third will be extremely powerful, and most importantly, more affordable than most high-end gaming rigs that will be available when that happens.

So, let's say I can get a $100 CPU to replace the one I have, and then get the HD 3850 for $265 after shipping.

That would bring me to a total of:
$600 put into this computer if I get those last 2 components (which I was not originally thinking of upgrading the CPU, but if I can cheaply, why not?). Is that $600 too much for the end-result machine I will have? Everywhere I turn, people say that the RDRAM based machine I have totally destroys what a lot of people have (affordably) today. I thought it was a good thing to stick with it despite it being outdated.

- So, if this was a $600 dollar computer for sale today in a store, what would it compare with that is out there now?
- Would mine, considering the cost, be the top-end machine for the money put into it?
- If so, by how much?
- What amount of DDR2 ram is equal to my 1.5gb pc1066 rdram?
- What amount of DDR3 is equal to my 1.5gb pc1066?

Remember, I got the original computer for free, and I also got my 21inch, 2048 x 1536 graphics-quality CRT monitor for free also.



 
kpo6969

kpo6969

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http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8250/specs.htm#1084976
your manual
"-Is the 3.06ghz P4 the highest I can go for my motherboard?"
yes
"-I know they made a 8250 stock with the 3.06 P4, but I'm not sure if my motherboard is the same as that...is it?"
yes
"-Can I simply upgrade?"
yes
"-Where should I buy one from?"
http://www.starmicro.net/detail.aspx?ID=121
best you can do for your cpu, no C2D
"-How difficult is it to do myself?"
read your manual, I've done it with my Dell twice
"-What do I do about the bios?"
make sure you have the latest
http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/driverslist.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&ServiceTag=&SystemID=DIM_PNT_P4_8250&os=WW1&osl=en&catid=&impid=

I would just get the video card and see how much improvement you see but that's up to you.
 
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