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Intel sued over Core 2 architechure

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February 8, 2008 12:48:52 AM

I'm not a fanboy but was browsing and saw this and haven't seen any posts about it here yet. My apologies if there is a thread on this already.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=206106343

It seems that intel may have borrowed its idea of its core 2 architecture from the University of Wisconsin.
But then again with the number of lawsuits thrown around, well maybe this isn't any news.

I hope this doesn't affect prices to much cause i'm still stuck on a P4 and am looking to upgrade in the next year. :) 

February 8, 2008 12:54:28 AM

Interesting, nice find.

I hope they win the sue against Intel. Then AMD has a better chance to catch up!
February 8, 2008 1:07:08 AM

^So they can jack up prices as well?No competition hurts everyone...
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February 8, 2008 1:10:29 AM

Evilonigiri said:
I hope they win the sue against Intel. Then AMD has a better chance to catch up!


If they win the suit against Intel, I'd guess AMD will be next in line; from what I can see this isn't exactly a 'rocket science' patent, I suspect that both x86 manufacturers have developed similar technology themselves. I'd love to see what kind of actual, real use the people who have this patent are making of it... I don't remember the last time I saw a CPU they developed.

Oh, and the Core 2 Duo wasn't around in 2001.
February 8, 2008 1:10:48 AM

Maybe AMD should have copied some patents. . .

a c 127 à CPUs
February 8, 2008 1:27:48 AM

Interesting but if they stop selling Core 2 then bam AMD will have the best chips(including the underperforming Phenom) and then they will jack up the prices.

It is possible that Intel came by this without theirs. Even when Edison was creating the light bulb there was another team working on it too. Sometimes two people have the same ideas.

I don't think they can force Intel to stop selling the chips as that would cause the market to lose any competition and instability. Maybe its a ploy by AMD? I doubt it but you never know.

BTW, how long does a patent last? If this were true then anything Intel created cold have been patented too thus creating a stagnent market. I guess we will see.
a c 140 à CPUs
a b å Intel
February 8, 2008 1:29:02 AM

Its not a copy, nothing but a coincident that Intel designed a chip that has some similar features.

Thats like taking a company to court over having rubber feet on a computer case. or the screw-less brackets in many cases....

seems stupid to me....
February 8, 2008 1:33:47 AM

Its all over the net but I agree with others that it is probably going nowhere. The Wisconsin Professor approached Intel with the design and tried to sell it with no luck. It would have to be a pretty radical design, before they could prove that Intel didn't have something similar in the works previously.
a c 127 à CPUs
February 8, 2008 1:36:53 AM

Considering Core 2 is based off of the Pentium III how do we know that the P III didn't have this which was around a while back?

Also I can't wait to see thunderdude come here.
February 8, 2008 1:40:31 AM

Out of court settlement. University gets a new stadium.
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February 8, 2008 1:42:56 AM

Scarchunk said:
Out of court settlement. University gets a new stadium.


Named: Core 2 Payed for this Stadium - Stadium
February 8, 2008 1:47:53 AM

Humm.. Multi-billion dollar company Intel with their eveil AI robot lawyers with lazer beems shooting out of their eyes and exploding rockets of doom..

vs

a university that has a bunch of guys wearing pocket protectors....

ehh no contest...
a c 127 à CPUs
February 8, 2008 1:49:21 AM

bombasschicken said:
Humm.. Multi-billion dollar company Intel with their eveil AI robot lawyers with lazer beems shooting out of their eyes and exploding rockets of doom..

vs

a university that has a bunch of guys wearing pocket protectors....

ehh no contest...


LMAO

the word PWNED comes to mind eh?
February 8, 2008 1:58:32 AM

In the words of thunderman: INTEL IS EVEL! AMD4LIFE! AMD IS THE ONLY TRUE INNOVATOR!
February 8, 2008 2:00:39 AM

jimmysmitty said:
It is possible that Intel came by this without theirs. Even when Edison was creating the light bulb there was another team working on it too. Sometimes two people have the same ideas.


Come on: it's a patent on using a table to predict data-dependence of instructions; that's hardly comparable to inventing the light bulb. Conceptually it doesn't appear much different to a branch predictor, which Intel have had in their chips since at least the Pentium.

If Intel's lawyers are any good, they'll get it thrown out of court.
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February 8, 2008 2:04:12 AM

Good find.

Given Intel's development and manufacturing strength atm, and the fact they are now VERY familiar with the C2D architecture, id assume IF Intel are sued and lose, they will need to pay royalties for chips already sold.

Not wanting to keep paying them, Intel will more than likely accelerate plans to release a new or revised architecture. These will both hurt Intel financially, but they are in a position to do architecture revisions and provide payouts.

So.... if that happens, guess who lose out again?

!AMD!
February 8, 2008 2:20:08 AM

And guess who wins!

Us the consumers!
February 8, 2008 2:23:22 AM

soloman02 said:
And guess who wins!

Us the consumers!


That is where you are wrong. If Intel loses this lawsuit and the injunction goes through, that means hello 300USD mainstream CPUs again.
a b à CPUs
February 8, 2008 3:11:35 AM

Still, we are in a pretty unique place atm regarding cpu power.
Ive been into pc's for as long as i can remember. In high school, a 'good' pc cost $2k. It could NOT play recent games at good resolution, and in general felt like a POS.
Even with inflation, today a $2k system will not dissapoint in any game.

Today, for pretty much the first time the 'average' consumer has access to a cpu that will be more than fast enough.

Guess my point is, with all the major developments recently, i wouldnt be too suprised or upset if things took a step back.
February 8, 2008 3:35:02 AM

bombasschicken said:
Humm.. Multi-billion dollar company Intel with their evil AI robot lawyers with laser beams shooting out of their eyes and exploding rockets of doom..

vs

a university that has a bunch of guys wearing pocket protectors....

ehh no contest...


Yea the guys wearing pocket protectors invent a time machine, go back in time and take over Intell. And instead of "intell inside" we get "Wisconsin inside" And with every new computer we get a free block of cheese :D 

If these guys actually had a patent and Intell some how got the information and used it with out permission that is a different story.

A patent provides the proprietor of that patent with the right to exclude others from utilizing the invention claimed in that patent. Should a person utilize that invention, without the permission of the patent proprietor, they may infringe that patent.

February 8, 2008 3:55:19 AM

it says that the university wants them to stop selling c2d, if intel loses, what do they sell?
February 8, 2008 4:12:31 AM

imrul said:
it says that the university wants them to stop selling c2d, if intel loses, what do they sell?


That, of course, is standard practice in patent cases to try to force the other guy to settle out of court rather than fight the case.

Sorry, but this is just another example of what annoys me about the current patent system; this isn't a case of Widget Inc developing some radical new technology that they use to make fantastic new processors and Intel then copying them, this is a group of people with no intention of making a CPU patenting something that looks fairly obvious and then suing for money they'd never make themselves because they aren't using the patent.
February 8, 2008 4:24:16 AM

Well, this might just be me, but intel should be sued for the incorrect temp readings on the E8400. Mine reads 40 degrees idle. After 3 hours of running at this reported temp I opened my case and the CPU heatsink was cold to the touch at the base where it makes contact. Over an hour of running orthos and I averaged 75 degrees, but the air being blown out of the exhaust fan and CPU fan were also colder then my skin. :x

Someone needs to test this with a thermometer, could toms do it?
a b à CPUs
February 8, 2008 5:08:33 AM

caamsa said:
Wisconsin inside
[/b]

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
February 8, 2008 6:10:10 AM

c2d

cheddar inside

:) 
a b à CPUs
February 8, 2008 6:44:55 AM

Do you reckon Intel will call their next (unnamed) core the "Wisconsin Core"?
February 8, 2008 8:04:11 AM

Oh no, Warf is attacking Intel. They'll never get that clingon of thier butt.
a b à CPUs
February 8, 2008 8:04:11 AM

Bad Intel ... stolen double cheesburger ??

Evil Intel ... AMD4Life !!!

In 2009 Intel will be bankrupt by superior AMD technology.

How did I do broodlings?? heh heh ... just joking.
February 8, 2008 8:04:54 AM

It will be interesting to see what connection there is between the Intel facility in Israel where the conroe was developed and the university of Wisconsin.
Also how much US taxpayer grant money went into this patent at the Wisconsin WARF.
February 8, 2008 8:45:52 AM

I do bet that Intel doesnt really care.
February 8, 2008 8:46:07 AM

Hey Bhavv, What's with the super irritating avatar? Are you trying to give me an epileptic fit or just burn a hole in my eye?

It seriously sucks, WTF?
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February 8, 2008 8:49:36 AM

Reynod said:
Bad Intel ... stolen double cheesburger ??

Evil Intel ... AMD4Life !!!

In 2009 Intel will be bankrupt by superior AMD technology.

How did I do broodlings?? heh heh ... just joking.



Omg its a AMD Fundametalist.......

Youll go to heaven with 2 Skull trail processors with dual 9850gx2 and 8 gb of ram with 20 tb of storage... and 20 virgins on the wayside just incase your bored.

Does your bum look big in that of do you have a intel power envelope attached to it.

Strike hard in the heart of the intelidells
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February 8, 2008 10:15:14 AM

Jeesh Hellboi ... don't call me a fundamentalist ...

That's some scary stuff there.



P.S. How's that Hillary chick going ... we don't get much news in Oz ... the pigeons are on strike. Heard she was going to be Prime Minister ... providing the Governor General OK's it .... LOL
a b à CPUs
February 8, 2008 4:48:04 PM

Reynod said:
Jeesh Hellboi ... don't call me a fundamentalist ...

That's some scary stuff there.



P.S. How's that Hillary chick going ... we don't get much news in Oz ... the pigeons are on strike. Heard she was going to be Prime Minister ... providing the Governor General OK's it .... LOL


It was done, tounge in cheek, if you know what I mean....

Us poms do have that weird sense of humour btw..

PS what does pom mean....

Heard it loads of times refering to us Brits but hey ho never heard its meaning.....

You sounded like Thunderman then and hes a AMD fundamentalist as with Baron Matrix and the rest of the morning crew...





February 8, 2008 5:17:34 PM

You see, I already know they'll throw it out. Nothing that intelligent can ever come out of Wisconsin!

...remember Dogma? Yea. It's all true.
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February 8, 2008 5:17:35 PM

MarkG said:
Come on: it's a patent on using a table to predict data-dependence of instructions; that's hardly comparable to inventing the light bulb. Conceptually it doesn't appear much different to a branch predictor, which Intel have had in their chips since at least the Pentium.

If Intel's lawyers are any good, they'll get it thrown out of court.


I think you missed my point. My point is that there are times when people do have the same idea.

But you are correct that its a bit more complicated than a lightbulb but at the time the lightbulb was very complicated. And I am sure Intel will go to their drawing boards and grab their info and if they see it show that they have had it since maybe even the 486+.

Personally I don't think you should be able to patent computer specific technologies like this. If Intel patented Timena(their IMC) then AMD would have never been able to go anywhere easily.
February 8, 2008 5:32:47 PM

starcraftfanatic said:
In the words of thunderman: INTEL IS EVEL! AMD4LIFE! AMD IS THE ONLY TRUE INNOVATOR!

I've been wondering where that guy is.... its been at least 2 days since he pulled up something 9 years old about intel doing something bad
February 8, 2008 5:35:28 PM



Given that IBM settled out of court rather than contest the suit for the same patent (even with their impressive array of layers) I would guess Intel will go the same way, cheaper than contesting it in court by a long way.

The University will get a nice new computer lab (or labs) and Intel will get access to the Patent, and the world will keep on rolling just the way it was before, the only real 'winners' being the impressive array of Lawyers that will line up on each side.
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February 8, 2008 5:36:43 PM

spuddyt said:
I've been wondering where that guy is.... its been at least 2 days since he pulled up something 9 years old about intel doing something bad


I am waiting for him to try and say that Intels chips caused Chernobly to go kaboom. Now that would be outdated. 1986.
February 8, 2008 5:41:52 PM

Reynod said:
the pigeons are on strike.

you've got pidgeons now? last i heard it was couriers bare foot running all the way across the nation to the one telephone :p 
February 8, 2008 5:47:48 PM

jimmysmitty said:
I am waiting for him to try and say that Intels chips caused Chernobly to go kaboom. Now that would be outdated. 1986.

didn't you know, that was completely their fault... yeah.... obviously.... :pt1cable:  (reading Thunderman's thoughts)
February 8, 2008 5:49:15 PM

spuddyt said:
didn't you know, that was completely their fault... yeah.... obviously.... :pt1cable:  (reading Thunderman's thoughts)


The Intel processors on their weak FSB weren't enough to handle the demands, so the core melted.
a c 127 à CPUs
February 8, 2008 5:56:16 PM

spuddyt said:
didn't you know, that was completely their fault... yeah.... obviously.... :pt1cable:  (reading Thunderman's thoughts)


cnumartyr said:
The Intel processors on their weak FSB weren't enough to handle the demands, so the core melted.


LMAO!!!!!! I love how thunderman thinks... good times...

Oh and I came up with another two new slogans for Intels "Wisconsin" CPUs:

Brett Farve Inside

:p 
February 8, 2008 5:57:17 PM

jimmysmitty said:
LMAO!!!!!! I love how thunderman thinks... good times...

Oh and I came up with another two new slogans for Intels "Wisconsin" CPUs:

Brett Farve Inside

:p 



Atleast with Wisconsin it'll be a native double cheeseburger.
a c 127 à CPUs
February 8, 2008 6:01:16 PM

cnumartyr said:
Atleast with Wisconsin it'll be a native double cheeseburger.


Yup. And the heatsink will be Wisconsin Cheese shapped and every CPU will come with a free Cheese Hat!!!!!!!!!
February 8, 2008 6:03:03 PM

jimmysmitty said:
Yup. And the heatsink will be Wisconsin Cheese shapped and every CPU will come with a free Cheese Hat!!!!!!!!!


No way, the heat sink will be a pot to put cheese in.

FONDU!
February 8, 2008 6:20:30 PM

San Pedro said:
Maybe AMD should have copied some patents. . .



No doubt! :) 
a c 127 à CPUs
February 8, 2008 6:21:44 PM

cnumartyr said:
No way, the heat sink will be a pot to put cheese in.

FONDU!


But if its a Core 2 CPU it wont get hot enough :( 

Maybe a OC'ed Phenom instead??
February 8, 2008 6:40:23 PM

I'm rooting for Wisconsin. They have a patent, legally and properly filed, and Intel has used this information without paying them or acknowledging their work. Intel apparently has known of this for some time, since 2001, and has been trying to stall and get out of paying anything. The Wisconsin guys finally got tired of Intel's BS and took Intel to court.

It seems kind of ridiculous to me. Intel could have easily either bought the patent or paid a minor royalty fee and obtained a legal use of it, thus avoiding all the hastles. And what if they had to pay a dollar per chip sold? We wouldn't have seen any real difference in the prices we pay and the Wisconsin team would have had millions by now. Further, if Intel had paid a fee and licenced the process, they could have prevented anyone else from using it by invoking an "exclusive use" clause.

I don't know whether AMD uses the same patented idea or not, or if AMD paid a royalty fee. The article doesn't say anything concerning that. Therefore I don't see much reason for bringing AMD into the situation.
!