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3870X2 Benches and Discussions/pics

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January 30, 2008 3:54:17 AM

OK what’s going on with all these sites.... I was planning on getting this card but every site has different results ....
http://www.anandtech.com/ shows the card as a beast and toms hardware shows it beating the ultra by 2 fps and sometimes loosing. Would you still buy this card?
January 30, 2008 4:16:16 AM

Considering the price , hell yes.
January 30, 2008 4:29:24 AM

Would buying a 8800gts g92 be better then getting a 3870x2?
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January 30, 2008 4:32:22 AM

depends on your resolution, 3870 x2 is quite worth the price right now which should be ~$450 ish
January 30, 2008 4:44:22 AM

Every website has a different ingame quality settings with a different outcome. I have to admit that AMD has pulled a rabbit out of their hat, competition baby means better prices for everyone. :D 
January 30, 2008 6:07:40 AM

Just consider than an 8800Ultra is $600 dollars and up. Also consider that drivers for the the 3870x2 should improve ALOT of things over time. Also consider that the 8800 drivers have been around for over a year now. One last thing to think about is that in a few months the price of this card should come down some too. You could have up to 4 GPU's at 1 time too.

The only downsides about this card are the power consumption and size. Oh and you really need a good high res monitor to reap all the benefits of such a high end card.
January 30, 2008 6:08:14 AM

Hi,

please take into account the driver differences. Tom's uses 8.1 while Anand was using a driver that actually supports the 3870X2, catalyst 8.45
a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2008 7:06:43 AM

It's not Catalyst 8.45 it's driver package 8-451 which is a different thing as the already released 8.1s have the same prefix, it's the last digits that matter 080123a.

It's likely to be Catalyst 8.2 or 8.3 when it gets WHQL cert, but there wouldn't be a catalyst 8.45 unless they launched about 4 official drivers a month.

Currently they are being called Catalyst 8.1 Beta, as the 080121a's were.
January 31, 2008 1:41:01 AM

ok thx for the info. I have the dell 27 inch so the card is going to be powering a good sized monitor
January 31, 2008 3:56:10 AM

Does anyone know were the asus card with 4dvi slots is beong sold... also do u think for soe resson not having an exhaust would make this card hotter then normal? is the 4 dvi slots going to make the card slower then one with just 2?
January 31, 2008 9:49:26 PM

WTF IS THIS BS On the board we've got two 3870 GPUs, separated by a 48-lane PCIe 1.1 bridge (no 2.0 support here guys). Each GPU has 16 lanes going to it, and then the final 16 lanes head directly to the PCIe connector and out to the motherboard's chipset.

Are they wrong or is it really not 2.0 (i have a maximus extreme so it would be nice to use 2.0) anyone know what the X2 is
January 31, 2008 10:53:40 PM

There isn't a graphics card on earth that uses either the extra bandwidth or extra power provided by the PCI-E 2.0 spec.
January 31, 2008 10:56:18 PM

ok lol i dont care about the power i want to know if its pci 2.0 bc i ordered one and im going to call newegg and bitch lol
January 31, 2008 11:34:43 PM

I noticed that newegg has them marked as PCIe2.0 as well. They technically aren't wrong by doing that though because the GPUs are PCIe2.0, but because of that extra chip in the middle the card makes them end up being PCIe1.0. I guess it shows you how much homework they do.
February 1, 2008 12:26:52 AM

I think it looks good, but if the nvidia 9800GX2 is $450 too then I'd want that more because it has an hdmi plug in it which is good for my monitor, also it will probably be faster.
February 1, 2008 1:11:09 AM

I think the 9800GX2 will be more than 450 and by the time it releases the 3870x2 will probably drop a little in price do to availability and competition. 9800GX2 will probably be faster though, but it'll come at a higher cost.
February 1, 2008 1:36:22 AM

honor said:
ok lol i dont care about the power i want to know if its pci 2.0 bc i ordered one and im going to call newegg and bitch lol


The 3870x2 is compatible with PCI-E 2.0, but it will never use it anyway so its pointless.
February 1, 2008 1:48:54 AM

ok well got an email from newegg saying that the 3870X2(asus) is currently out of stock (damm i thought i got the last one lol) So im looking at this as a good thing...... does anyone know were the ROG asus version with 4 dvi slots is being sold in the US
February 1, 2008 1:58:13 AM

the is model # if anyone knows where i can find EAH3870X2/G/3DHTI/1G

February 1, 2008 3:53:49 AM

honor said:
WTF IS THIS BS On the board we've got two 3870 GPUs, separated by a 48-lane PCIe 1.1 bridge (no 2.0 support here guys). Each GPU has 16 lanes going to it, and then the final 16 lanes head directly to the PCIe connector and out to the motherboard's chipset.

Are they wrong or is it really not 2.0 (i have a maximus extreme so it would be nice to use 2.0) anyone know what the X2 is



lol! all that matters is fps who cares if pci 13.69 or pci-wtf!
February 1, 2008 4:33:25 AM

dragonsprayer said:
lol! all that matters is fps who cares if pci 13.69 or pci-wtf!


I have the new PCI-Express 3.1a 8800GTX thats separated by 1,000 PCI-E 1.1b lanes on my Intel quad socket motherboard. :lol: 
February 1, 2008 4:39:21 AM

great guys lol but did u miss my post, do u jokers know where i can get the asus rog 3870X2 card lol
February 1, 2008 4:57:42 AM

I think I'll wait for the faster 9800GX2.

I want to get a whole new system and in a month or so this card and the normal (non-extreme) 45nm quadcores (SSE4) should be released.

One site compared the single GPU SLI vs crossfire:
Quote : the SLI GeForce 8800 GT graphics cards to be 21.4% faster on average, with the Crossfire Radeon HD 3870 cards winning just 2 of the 13 tests this time while there was also a draw.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=716

If this translates in the same difference with both GPU's on one card I'm willing to pay more for the 9800GX2.
Consider how much some guys pay for DDR3 or things like that wich only give a few % ...
And if I ever get 2 of the new cards I'd have 43,8%.

Ok, I agree the drivers might not be ready for the ATI X2 but in crossfire single card this should not have been an issue.

Even the supposed better scaling of crossfire vs SLI did not seem to be the case.
February 1, 2008 5:30:51 AM

THG did an article a while back between 8x and 16x express lanes and there really wasn't "that" much of a difference, in fact if I remember correctly only the 8800GTX/Ultra's had an advantage using 16x instead of 8x. The 8800GTS 640/320 did gain from 16x but not by that much and even then it wasn't conistant. Since the 3870x2 just keeps pace with the 8800Ultra I'm guessing that it'll be a while before PCIe2.0 is really even needed.

honor said:
great guys lol but did u miss my post, do u jokers know where i can get the asus rog 3870X2 card lol


If you don't get a reply then you should assume it's a NO. :pfff: 
February 1, 2008 7:11:54 AM

honor said:
WTF IS THIS BS On the board we've got two 3870 GPUs, separated by a 48-lane PCIe 1.1 bridge (no 2.0 support here guys). Each GPU has 16 lanes going to it, and then the final 16 lanes head directly to the PCIe connector and out to the motherboard's chipset.

Are they wrong or is it really not 2.0 (i have a maximus extreme so it would be nice to use 2.0) anyone know what the X2 is


It is a 1.1 bridge on the card itself but its a 2.0 interface. It IS pcie 2.0. There are way to many people on this forum who can not figure this out. You are not one of them as your post is a question but be aware there are a few folks that have not done the homework.

Alot of us are waiting for a new card with a better bridge but its super doubtfull this card is filling this bridge as it is.

Full PCIE 2.0 = X2
February 1, 2008 7:13:25 AM

to tjoepie
You need to consider mate, that the 8800GT in single card, operates at 90 deg. THe 9800 X2 is (according to rumors) UNDERclocked because of heat issues so don't expect such performance gains. Remember the 7950 GX2 ? The single 7950 was an excelent card but the GX2 had major issues. It would totally rock some games and absolutelly suck at others. We'll just have to wait and see
February 1, 2008 7:22:59 AM

Dual GPU Nvidia cards have always had issues because most of them require an Nforce chipset.

Also the 3870X2 does not run on PCIe2.0 because both GPU's go through the "bridge chip" in the center which only runs at PCIe1.1, therefore the "interface" is PCIe1.1 because systems are only as fast as their weakest link. Do your homework.
February 1, 2008 2:48:19 PM

blashyrkh said:
to tjoepie
You need to consider mate, that the 8800GT in single card, operates at 90 deg. THe 9800 X2 is (according to rumors) UNDERclocked because of heat issues so don't expect such performance gains. Remember the 7950 GX2 ? The single 7950 was an excelent card but the GX2 had major issues. It would totally rock some games and absolutelly suck at others. We'll just have to wait and see


My geforce 7950 GX2 is rocking Crysis all medium settings 30 fps at stock (35-40 fps oced) tested 9 games with this card no problems. Than again they had what 2-3 years to fix the drivers. The 9800 GX2 will have slightly better cooling at least it looks that way. the bottom fan is face up so both fans are facing each other which should create a more powerful vaccum to suck more air inbetween the cards, would be FAR more efficient to put the gpu that is on top on the other side and have the fan facing up. I bet the 9800 GX2 costs $550 and beats the 3870 X2 by 10-15% in performance. AMD will rule the mid-high end range cards for 2008 (i hope/THINK).
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2008 3:05:17 PM

honor said:
OK what’s going on with all these sites.... I was planning on getting this card but every site has different results ....
http://www.anandtech.com/ shows the card as a beast and toms hardware shows it beating the ultra by 2 fps and sometimes loosing. Would you still buy this card?

And [H]ardocp has it losing to the 8800GTX more often than not.
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ1NCw4...

Kyle also defends his site's review at the end with some strong words and discusses it in the forum too where people keep linking to Andands review. Fun read (if you have a few hours - 37 page thread and growing). He bashes Anand's "canned" testing methods in defense of his own because Anand used the GPU bench for Crysis, and worse, a terrible timedemo for UT3, and used a fraps run of a cutscene for COD4.

I'm not on board with [H] on lots of things (like their opinion of what is best playable settings) And I am not saying that an 8800GTX is better than the 3870x2 either, but do agree with them actual gameplay means more than cutscenes and timedemos, but only if they do enough runs to ensure accurate/repeatable results. Also, as anyone who has spent time fraps benching a game knows, the part of the game and the exact route you take can make performance vary quite a bit. So even real world gameplay you have to trust the reviewer to be unbiased and not cater his bench route toward the card he wants to support. Basically, If every review site used fraps to bench real world gameplay, and did 5-7 runs to ensure accuracy, I still don't think we would get the exact same results ( edit: and pecking order) from all sites.
February 1, 2008 11:15:18 PM

ya that bothers me i just want the real deal..... some sites say its the fastest card others dont
February 1, 2008 11:16:09 PM

dont want to spend 1000 on 2 of them and have a slower card then the 8800ultra
February 1, 2008 11:22:55 PM

well if anyone is intrested this came from pcclub

"i contacted our purchasing dept and they informed me that they will not
be getting the new DDR4 3870X2 ATI videocards for at least a couple of
more months, that the U.S release date is still about two months away.
Currently we have instock the Sapphire DDR3 3870X2 videocarsd."
February 2, 2008 7:59:08 AM

EAH3870X2/G/3DHTI/1G

I'm looking for that as well, (2) 3870 in cf are pretty sweet, but I am rebuilding soon, and would like to put a crossfire system intoa more portable chassis. CAn't find the nice 3870x2 either.

Edit: XPCgear has it but its $550, I doubt its worth the extra $100...
http://www.xpcgear.com/3870x2hti1gb.html

Does the 3DHTI version ahve gddr4?, I thought all of them had gddr3?
a b U Graphics card
February 2, 2008 12:44:37 PM

honor said:
ya that bothers me i just want the real deal..... some sites say its the fastest card others dont

Goes in line with what I said. Driverheaven like [H] runs real world gameplay not timedemos. The only do 3 runs and use the meduan run. But they have the 3870x2 often way ahead of the 8800 Ultra. You have to base your opino on multiple sources. Then look at OS version, drivers, and games tested to see what is best for you. Given everything I have read, I'd rather have the 3870x2 than a similar priced 8800 GTX.
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/AMDX2Review/index.p...

February 2, 2008 2:03:17 PM

Sure that card is nice and less expensive than an Ultra. But keep in mind it still will not play DX10-.1 so it is not worth buying. Neither will Nvidia's version if it does not max out. I would hope to buy a card this year for $300+ and get around 50+ FPS on Crysis in DX10 Mode. That may only be a dream though. Another reason not to buy is the 8800GT 512 or GTS will get really good FPS on those game. Just the X2 get more that you won't notice.
February 2, 2008 7:11:51 PM

Well thats true but i have a maximus extreme mobo thats supports CF only at this time maybe in the future sli. XPC i dont know if i can trust them has anyone ever ordered from them? also if u read the info it says pre order and 2 dvi so a little fishy if u ask me lol...... if anyone has ordered from them tell me how they are compared to newegg
February 2, 2008 9:01:31 PM

Has anyone ever gone with MSI
February 3, 2008 3:30:30 PM

is the 499 price for the oc msi worth it?
February 3, 2008 3:58:51 PM

systemlord said:
Every website has a different ingame quality settings with a different outcome. I have to admit that AMD has pulled a rabbit out of their hat, competition baby means better prices for everyone. :D 


I've mostly been indifferent to benches from Nvidia cards because AMD had better image quality (it's been pointed out to me that Nvidia caught up with the 8000 series). Because I had the misfortune to buy a barebones with an MSI K9N6SGM-V, I was locked into Nvidia for the first time, due to chipset limitations, so I got a 7600gs and considered keeping the board and upgrading to better Nvidia card, but decided it wasn't worth it with only PCIe x8.

I did not see this before I ordered it in February 2007:

Quote:

(Due to the specification of the chipset, ATI X8xx, X7xx, X5xx, and X3xx series graphic card will not be supported.)

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K9N...

That was my first and last Nvidia chipset!

Now that I have an ATI board, I have a 3870x2 on order.

Nvidia and AMD may not be apples and oranges but they're at least oranges and tangerines. They do things just differently enough that people prefer one over the other. I can't see how people switch GPU's based on benchmarks every six months to one year. It's a cash cow for the card companies and rather silly overall. People should switch when the card they have won't give the settings they're happy with. I can't see how a few fps affects anything past 30 or so, unless the new card offers higher settings and not just fps.

pauldh said:

I'm not on board with [H] on lots of things (like their opinion of what is best playable settings) And I am not saying that an 8800GTX is better than the 3870x2 either, but do agree with them actual gameplay means more than cutscenes and timedemos, but only if they do enough runs to ensure accurate/repeatable results. Also, as anyone who has spent time fraps benching a game knows, the part of the game and the exact route you take can make performance vary quite a bit. So even real world gameplay you have to trust the reviewer to be unbiased and not cater his bench route toward the card he wants to support. Basically, If every review site used fraps to bench real world gameplay, and did 5-7 runs to ensure accuracy, I still don't think we would get the exact same results ( edit: and pecking order) from all sites.


I don't know Kyle, but I read the review and I don't trust him. Not because I assume he's dishonest, but because I have no way of validating the "real game" benchmarks he does. The issue of canned benchmarks vs. real gameplay is a nonissue. That's because benchmarks are supposed to be canned so everyone can trust that each site tests the cards under as close to the same conditions as possible, accepting that motherboards, chipsets, memory timings, ect. will be different.

Who cares if the 3870x2 is faster or slower than the fastest Nvidia card? I bought mine compared to the 3870 single card in the genres I'm interested in (CRPGs and RTS, not FPS). If a single 3870 will only do 30 fps in The Witcher, but a 3870x2 gives me virtual Crossfire in one slot with 46 fps, then it will be viable for a year or so; especially as drivers mature. If I do decide to get a 790 board and 45nm Phenom someday, then it should work in Crossfire mode along with another 3870x2 or an R700.
February 3, 2008 4:31:23 PM

honor said:
is the 499 price for the oc msi worth it?


My only bad experience with MSI was due to the Nvidia 405 chipset limitations quoted above. When I e-mailed their tech support, they e-mailed me back and said "Nvidia card with Nvidia motherboard" so I did not upgrade the 7600gs.

I actually ordered the MSI overclocked Friday. It was $449 at 4 a.m. in the morning when my income tax refund posted. By Saturday morning, the card went up to $499. I can't wait to benchmark it.

It will be CPU limited at first, because I only have a 17" Viewsonic A71f+, but will get a 20" Viewsonic LCD in two weeks. Past 1280 x 1024, the CPU does not hold back the GPU.

I can't use the MSI board PC, so I'm using an old P4 630 on an ASUS P5RD1 ATI X200 board. Next month, I'll get a 780G and move the Athlon X2 over to the new board. Then it should be fine. I've also decided to get a 3.4 Pentium D for the ATI board as a backup gaming PC that won't get commandeered for graphics work.

At any rate, I figured at the same price, clocks of 850 were worth it. It's up to you if $499 is worth it over the two that are 825, and the rest that are 775.
February 3, 2008 8:40:39 PM

Quote:


i know what you mean but that statement was a bit nonsensical was it not. makes no real world sense.


How do you think I should have phrased it? Most people here know that weaker CPU's mated with higher end cards affect performance at resolutions of 1280 x 1024 and lower, but resolutions above are more dependent on the GPU. Even with the lame Netburst it would do better at 1680 x 1050.

Well, I decided I really didn't want to put it on the P4 630 X200 board, so I just clicked on an MSI 690V board for $59 with shipping. It should be here the day after the card. So I'll wait till I can transfer the X2 4600+ from that 405 board before I set up the 3870x2. I'll just eat Ramen and vegetables at work for the next two weeks LOL.

Anyways, this is what I'll have when it's upgraded:

AMD X2 4600+ 65 watt Windsor

Antec Neo 550

old scratched up beige RAIDMAX steel case 3 80mm fans (two intake, one outtake) 1 60mm outtake.
(waiting for the In Win Stealth)

MSI K9AGM2-L

2 gigs Kingston DDR2 667

MSI 3870x2 clocked at 850/1800

40 gig Maxtor IDE with a SATA adaptor for Windows Vista

two 160 gig WD Caviar for games and anime
(I don't need alot of storage, it's my wife who has 1 terabyte inside and 1 terabyte outside and she wants a 1 terabyte Lacie Gold for her graphics work plus anime storage).

Memorex DVD-R/RW

Viewsonic A71f CRT (but I'm getting a 20" Viewsonic Optiquest Q201wb later this month).

Windows Vista Pain in the Neck edition just because of DX10, with a dual boot of Windows XP

When the 780G's arrive with power saving mode (they won't have them initially on March 5), I'll get a B3 Phenom (the fastest I can afford at the time) and then upgrade again.

People keep saying that you can have an Nvidia card on an ATI board and an ATI card on an Nvidia board, but the only time I went with the other company for a cheap board it had those ridiculous limitations, which neither MSI nor Nvidia would explain. I guess chipsets after the 405 didn't have that problem?





February 4, 2008 4:55:05 AM

if u could could u please post pics of the msi card ,mem. if possible and the top of the card Thx)
February 5, 2008 2:22:57 AM

well im talking to pc club should hear soon when the EAH3870X2/G/3DHTI/1G is out will post the date if they can order me one............... PRAY FOR ME LOL :) 
February 5, 2008 2:53:51 AM

Here's the page at Newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

When I get both the card and the motherboard, I'll set my system up and then benchmark it under FRAPS with CRPG's Oblivion and The Witcher. I don't have any other game besides Oblivion and The Witcher that are on benchmark sites, though I intend to get World at War and Hellgate London later on.

Not only did MSI's card go up to $499, but all the others at Newegg have gone up to $459. So much for manufacturer's suggest retail price! LOL.

Good luck with getting your card.
February 5, 2008 4:06:14 AM

thx..... the first night the msi came out newegg had it at 449 now they uped all the prices
February 5, 2008 5:27:01 AM

3870 GPU chips are on low supply. Just think of all the 3870 cards with 1 chip and now with the 3870X2 the demand on those chips has basically trippled. So it's just supply and demand. Losts of company's do the same thing with their prices when supplies are low and demand is high.
February 5, 2008 5:42:24 AM

Hi All. I am waiting for the Ge Cube Radeon HD3870X2 (R680) (X-Turbo Dual). But my patiance is wearing thin waiting for it to become available anywhere. Anybody have any real info on this card ???? So far my almost hourly searches only showing in germany ,At least I think it is anyway. Not knowing how to speak German doesn't help either. I live in Australia & the GeCube distributors in my country will not answer any emails.

Also, Any info on the ddr4 3870X2 cards ???


This pci-e 1.0 issue on the 3970 X2 has me thinking, Is this the right card or should I wait and just get a "oc" 3870 till something better is released?
February 5, 2008 5:44:29 AM

At the price point of an OC'd 3870 you could just get an 8800GT.
February 5, 2008 5:58:08 AM

T8RR8R said:
At the price point of an OC'd 3870 you could just get an 8800GT.


a: They are too expensive in Aus (& every where else for that matter.)
b: Not a fan of Nvidia in general. AMD is where the future is @... 5 years time AMD will be the dominant force in gpu technology.
c: not exiting enough.
Thank you for your input though T8RR8R.
February 5, 2008 7:26:25 AM

paq7512 said:
Sure that card is nice and less expensive than an Ultra. But keep in mind it still will not play DX10-.1 so it is not worth buying. Neither will Nvidia's version if it does not max out. I would hope to buy a card this year for $300+ and get around 50+ FPS on Crysis in DX10 Mode. That may only be a dream though. Another reason not to buy is the 8800GT 512 or GTS will get really good FPS on those game. Just the X2 get more that you won't notice.

Where do you get your facts about it not playing DX10.1???

http://ati.amd.com/products/Radeonhd3800/index.html

Ultimate HD Gaming
Advance to ultimate HD gaming with incredible performance, life-like graphics and support for Microsoft® DirectX® 10.1. With ATI Radeon™ HD 3800 Series GPUs powering your gaming experience, you’re ready to dominate the battlefield. And thanks to plug-and-play ATI CrossFireX™ upgradeability, you can scale your performance to even greater heights.
Prepare to DOMINATE!


http://game.amd.com/us-en/unlock_radeonhd3870x2.aspx
Incredible performance – You’ll be blown away by life-like graphics from the latest Microsoft® and future DirectX® 10.1 games, with stunning 3D graphics and shading effects.
!