Hi guys. I'm trying to figure out what parts to tell my dad to get to upgrade his computer. He's recently told me he wants to upgrade to Windows XP.

We currently have:
MOBO: MSI K6T266 Pro2 Ver 2.0
CPU: 1.4GHz Athlon
RAM: 1 stick 256MB DDR-266
HD: WD 200GB (currently only 127GB formatted due to LBA limit) (plus my own 80GB and 250GB HDs, and my as-yet-unpurchased 500GB or more HD)
OS: Windows 2000 SP4

here's a few pics of the case & components we now have

We'd like a case with better ventilation and airflow, for one thing. (for example, a program I have shows something running at 54°C.) Our computer sometimes runs hotter than we're comfortable with. Also, I would definitely like front USB and audio ports, too.
Also, as for the MOBO, I definitely want it to have PCI express, SATA (at least 4 devices; current one doesn't have any), USB 2.0 (current one has 1.0 or 1.1), either socket LGA 775 or AM2 (current one is an older socket).

Some things that we (or at least I) will be doing with this computer that we either aren't able to now, or it's severely crippled, include, but are not limited to: extensive music production, video editing, photo editing, etc. Games will be an afterthought, but if I have time I might dabble in it a few minutes a day.

Ok.... I know you guys are going to recommend NewEgg, or the like, for purchasing the components. Thing is, I talked to my dad last week, and he wants to buy locally.
Anyone have suggestions on how to figure out what to get from the local stores? (I'm sure you guys probably don't know their reputations.)
Links to several stores we'd consider shopping at:
ChipsAndMemory.com (Display Ad (in local mag)
Best Bytes - Display Ad
Technology Depot - http://webserver.computoredge.com/ [...] Display Ad

A few other stores are listed in the advertising section of ComputorEdge. Most of the extras are a bit out of our area.

Would Geeks.com (in Oceanside) be worth the trip (from El Cajon (home) or Kearny Mesa (work)), though?

a blast from the past....upgrading to windows xp.

case: antec or silverstone. good bang for your buck (and quality i must say)

mobo: pretty much anything made in the last two years fits the specs you mentioned

cpu: anything dual core and modern,

since you're not gonna game get something from the 8xx0 or 7xx0 geforce series. 7600gs or 8600gs, maybe even x400 will work for you.

For parts, why not use the ones from the thread you started on January 13 - you got about 25 responses from people trying to help you build a low cost system - same as upgrading with replacement components. And I personally addressed the limitations of upgrading your Dad's system.

For shopping, do you really expect posters to try to find prices at your local stores? They can make recommendations based on commonly known prices, but if you want to pay more to shop locally - or even from other online stores - I think you should be prepared to do a little leg work yourself.

I mean, gee, you get all those people helping on your last thread now you want people to basically repeat the same info but price it at your stores. Come on.

Something to seriously think about when buying local... It might actually be cheaper to get it from newegg (or similar sites). Even counting shipping, I saved more than $300 on the parts I bought from mwave ($1100 vs $1400) over buying locally and running to FIVE shops even.

Yes, you might have to wait a few more days, but that will give you time to prepare for the install. Dload latest drivers, check your app's compatibility with XP (ALMOST all 2k compliant software works on XP, but not all), think about where you're going to do the build, what order you're going to install the software, etc, etc.

Spend an extra %10-20 time/effort above what you think you're going to and you'll not have to redo everything in a few weeks/months.

At this time, we're wary of Vista. (We're currently running 2000 Professional.)

What about the PSU (if it doesn't come with the case)? Same brands there?

Is there anything we should avoid, for example shoddy quality?

Even with the little bit of gaming I might do on the side those would be fine. Our GF2-MX400 does ok, too, for what I throw at it. HL2 is a stretch (based on the demo), but I'm not planning to run that on my dad's PC.

I hadn't thought of that. I was thinking his needs might be a little different than mine, but seeing as we'll probably sometimes use the same PC...

No, I don't expect them to find prices at local stores. I just want some general guidelines - X product is good, Y product is bad, never pay more than $A for Q, etc.
Also, my dad's more comfortable with shopping locally, in case something goes wrong. For one thing (I didn't ask him about this, I'm guessing, but am fairly sure) he doesn't want to have to ship something back somewhere, but would probably prefer to take it in person to a local place (that is, if it's something my brother can't or doesn't want to help us fix.)

No, not price it at my stores. I'll do that myself.
One thing I was thinking. Should I search NewEgg for the model numbers of things listed in local stores, and do some research that way?

I know local is MUCH cheaper. For example, some local places advertise 1GB Kingston RAM around $25 and up, whereas I can get it on NewEgg for $20. The MOBO prices (at least a few I looked up) are within 10-15%, though (at least the ones under $100.) I did see one vendor that had a 750GB Western digital HD for $129 on sale, though.

Would that also include extra $?

Ok here's another thing. I need to get a bigger HD for myself (looking at at least 500GB). I don't want to get some legacy (PATA) interface, but want a modern (SATA) interface, nor do I want to get some adapter card for my dad's PC that we might only use for a few months until he upgrades, nor do I want to split it into 4 partitions due to the LBA limit that I haven't been able to work around satisfactorily. (Also, I'd prefer external, and USB 1.1 is WAY too slow!)

Also, at what point (depending on which components we keep / upgrade) would it be better to just throw in the towel and buy a whole new pre-built (but NOT name-brand (i.e. Dell, HP, Lenovo, Gateway, etc) PC?
I expect we'll keep the same HD (there's still 73GB of unformatted space there), DVD burner (still works for our use), keyboard, mouse, monitor, MAYBE the GeForce2 MX400 video card, printer (LPT port), mouse (forget if it's PS2 or USB), speakers.

I think if you have to upgrade at least 3 components at the same time, a brand new system is probably the better option especially considering you have an older motherboard and the technologies have changed since then. And as far as keeping your older hardware just be sure that your new mobo can support it. I didn't read the entire thread but by the specs you listed I'm guessing both your hard drive and DVD drive use IDE cables which are quickly being phased out. There are converters for them however, and as far as I know motherboard still have at least 1 IDE hookup; I know mine does (granted it's not really NEW, but it's not old either). If you go the route of a complete overhaul your old card will not be usable unless you get one of very few motherboards that still support AGP, and by doing that you'd highly limit an upgrade path for a video card. With your printer, the best option is to get an LTP to PCI adapter; I don't believe any company that produces motherboards uses LTP any more.

Your case is actually not that bad. In one picture it seems to be missing the rear fan. That can cost you 15-20c right there. If you get a couple of good, quiet 80mm fans, I think you would be fine. A more modern PSU would also help temendously. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817371005

As I recall also in the previous thread, the case was sitting in some sort of cubby hole of the desk. Definitely not good for airflow no matter the case.

Having said that, an excellent low cost case with excellent airflow, and roominess, would be this one. It is bigger than it looks in the pictures. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811119115

I used Newegg links, but these components are available from just about anywhere. You might try Fry's. I believe the closest to you would be San Diego. http://shop2.outpost.com/ac/storel [...] wQ**.node1 They often have great MB/CPU combo deals, as well as Case and power supply deals, memory, and hard drives. Not great prices on vid cards though. http://www.frys-electronics-ads.com/

For the rest of the parts, I agree with RockyJohn. Go back to the other thread, pick the ones you want, get the part numbers from Newegg and take that info to the other stores. If they have a web site, just punch in the part numbers to the search box. Should be simple an painless.

Ok... a few possible products... are these any good? (And, I'll have to check with the local vendors to see if they have them in stock - just because they're on their website doesn't mean they're in the store to pick up...)


Technology Depot:

Cases:
CoolerMaster RC-534-KKN2-GP Black - $56.25
Cooler Master CM Elite 330 Black = $47.50
ThermalTake TT Wing RS100 Black - $47.50

CPU:
Intel LGA775 2.8GHz Pentium 4 - $55.56
Athlon 3800 Dual Core AM2 Box - $72.61

Video (but don't want to get it if it's not necessary for viewing high-def videos, extensive video editing, etc):
ASUS 6200LE PCI-Express Turbo 256MB - $37.19
ASUS X1050 PCI-Express 128MB - $43.75



Before I continue... is the 750GB Sata2 WD HD for $129 near the top center of this ad a good deal?



chipsandmemory.com:
(note: they don't have individual products on separate pages; all are on one link per category. note #2: they DO have links, but they seem to link to the manufacturer's website, so I didn't include them here.)

CPUs:
Intel LGA775:
Dual Core E2140 1.6GHz - $69
Core2Duo E4500 2.2Ghz - $125
AMD AM2:
Athlon 64 X2 4200+ 2.2GHz - $79

RAM:
Kingston 1GB: DDR2-533 = $35, DDR2-667 = $25, DDR2-800 = $29

PSU
24-pin ATX 2.0 - Thermaltake 430w TR2 - $49 - is Thermaltake also a good brand of PSU?
Also what other brands (not just on the immediately-above-linked site) are good?

Mobo - anything under $120 that has good (for an integrated solution - not looking for 8800 here - 6x00 is probably ok) onboard video, at least 4 DDR2 slots, 4 expansion slots (any type), 1 PATA (maybe 2), 3 SATA, LAN, audio. NewEgg was responding too slowly at the time I was going to try to look up different model #s there.

Video:
nVidia 7200 GS 256MB - $39
ATI X1550 256MB - $39


StarTech:

Case - didn't find any that I liked.

CPU:
AM2 Athlon 64 X2 4200+ - $88.80
775 Intel P4 P631 3GHz - $72.81
775 Intel Core2Duo E4500 2.2Ghz - $142.60

RAM:
Kingston 1GB DDR2-667 - $28.17

MOBO:
AM2:
Asus M2N-MX uATX - $79.00
Asus M2N-E ATX - $101.00
775:
Asus P5GZ-MX - $64.54 (but only 2 DDR2 slots)
Asus P5LD2 ATX - $100.71

Video:
nVidia eVGA 128MB 7200GS PCI-Express - $47.25



Fry's:

Case:
Thermaltake Mambo - $39.99
Cooler Master Centurion 534 - $49.99
Cooler Master Centurion 5 - $49.99
url=http://shop2.outpost.com/product/5030745?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG]Cooler Master Elite 330[/url] - $49.99

PSU:
Thermaltake 430W - $34.99
Antec Basiq 350W - $39.99

Mobo (socket 775 ; both are more than I think we'd like to spend though):
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L - $94.99
Abit Fatal1ty F-I90JHD - $106.99

CPU (socket 775):
Pentium Dual-Core E2180 LGA775 - $99.00
Core2Duo E4500 LGA775 - $124.00

Video:
evga 7200GS 128MB PCI-E - $44.99





Keep in mind we currently have:
IDE DVD writer (forget what kind it is - I think maybe a Lite-On but don't remember)
AGP Video card - GeForce2 MX-400
IDE HDs - 200GB WD, 250GB WD, 80GB WD (the 250 and 80 are mine. the 200 only has 127 formatted due to the lba limit)
Also, I'd prefer not to have to spend $ to replace components that are currently working that we'll transfer, like the HDs for example (and if the video card we have is better than an on-board solution, that too. (but, seeing as hardly anything has an AGP slot anymore, I guess we'd have to, especially if the board we get doesn't have on-board video.))


I didn't check places that are farther away, like Geeks.com (I've heard them recommended either here or cnet, can't remember which), which is in Oceanside, a bit far.

Or... should we just order from NewEgg instead of buying locally?


If we keep the same case... is there a suggested way to ventilate it better? Would 120mm fans work? Also, should I try to persuade my parents to keep it out of the cubby hole?


(I guess we couldn't put a fan like this on our current case, considering it doesn't have a side window?)

Of your case choices, the Coolermaster 330 or the Thermaltake Wing would be best concerning airflow.

Most of your video cards are not much better than onboard. Definitely avoid any video with SE on the end. SE is is actually worse than onboard in most instances. The x1550 is the best performing choice above. You could try onboard video first, and the add a card later. You might find onboard will work fine for you.

For ram get two sticks for dual channel(2x512mb). 2gb(2x1gb) would be better. Kingston, Corsair or Crucial "value series" would be fine. DDR2 800 would be better for Athlon, but DDR2 533 and 667 work.

That Thermaltake 430 PSU would work in a low power system like yours. They are actually very quiet, but not very efficient at 65%. Not really good for the long term. The best bet would be the Antec Earthwatts 380w I linked to. More amps on the 12v, 80% efficient, way better quality. Generally can be had in most places right now for the same price after rebate as Newegg.

Don't know if you saw this on the Fry's web site, but it is actually a great deal. The processor is pretty fast, and the MB has good onboard video. I have owned 3 ECS combo boards over the last few years, and all are trouble free. Not made for high performance or overclclocking, but solid for stock speed systems. http://www.netaffilia.com/ad/elect [...] 29649.html Avoid old tech like the P4 CPU.

With a Dremel, or Rotozip type tool, you could easily cut a hole in the side of your case and put such a fan in. You could also put a plastic panel in with a piece of cheap Plexiglas from Home Depot. They generally have precut pieces for sale. You can use 2 part epoxy or rivets to attach the Plexiglas.

The two cases I mentioned with an added front fan would actually be better in the cubbyhole, as long as there is space in the back for the air to blow out. In general though, it is best not do do cubbyholes.

As for shopping, you would probably do best on price by getting the Fry's MB/CPU combo, and getting everything else on Newegg, although you will have to pay taxes from Newegg in addition to shipping.

Ok.. I was just snooping around.... what do you think of these mobos?

I'll list 2 sections - ones available locally cheaper than NewEgg, then ones for which el Huevo Nuevo es mas barato.
All links are to NewEgg. Prices are local. Keep in mind that I DO have to pay sales tax on NewEgg.

I'd like to get as inexpensive of one as possible, but I don't want caca-like quality (or lack thereof). Also more ports for expansion (drives, RAM, slots, etc) would be better. I won't require an ultra-high-end CPU upgrade capability, like Core 2 Extreme, Core 2 Quad, Phenom, etc.

M2N-MXSE - $53
M2A-VM - $65
P5B-MX - $73
P5L-MX = $73
P5KPL-VM = $79
P5L-VM = $79
M2NBP-VM = $79

These are cheaper on newegg. Would they be worth it, or should I go with one of the above ones locally?
P5GC-MX = $59
P5N-MX = $75
GA-MA69GM-S2H = $85

I have more local stuff I'm researching (and may ask about later), but before I sign off this post..

Is this 750GB WD Sata2 7200RPM 16MB Hard Drive for $129 (available locally) a good deal (if the price is still valid)?
Or should I stick with a $99 WD 500GB drive, also available locally?

EDIT (and, some of this would be for if I go ahead and build my own system anyway):

How would you decide which DVD burner to get? I see several brands (LG, LiteOn, Sony, ASUS, etc) that are virtually the same price with almost the same specs. Lightscribe and SATA might jack the price a few $, but assuming you're comparing equal ones, which is best? Or, are they all just different names on the same drive?

Should the on-board video on any of the above mobos be good enough? One problem I often have with our GeForce2 MX-400 (or am I blaming the wrong thing?) is that video and audio, especially when online (we DO have cable, though) are often way out of sync, sometimes by a few seconds or more.

Also, 533 vs 667 vs 800 RAM - I know the 800's fastest, but how does mobo support work? Could I put 800 RAM in a 533 board, or 533 RAM in an 800 board, and expect it in both cases to run at 533?
Also, 2 sticks of 1GB, or 1 stick of 2GB? If I get a board with only 2 slots, I want to have 1 slot available for later (and don't want to have to purchase 2 new sticks later), but should I fill both slots anyway if I get 2GB RAM?

More Mobos....
I didn't find these on NewEgg. Are any of them ok, or what do you think? (prices are as advertised locally.)
Asus M2N-E SLI = $87
Asus M2N-BPVM AM2 = $78
BIOS NF61VM2 Am2 = $49
Intel D965GFERK = $125
Intel DG31PR = $79
Asus M2NBP-VM = $79
Gigabyte GA MA96GM-S2H = $69
Gigabyte GA M57SLI-S4 = $95
Asus M2A-MVP Xfire = $89
Intel Box D946GZISSL C2 = $88

BTW, someone on CNET told me to stay away from ECS and PCChips Mobos. (I've also heard someone else say avoid ECS.) What do you guys think of them?

I don't find many ANTEC PSUs locally, unless they're upwards of $70 or more for less than 500 watts.

A few local CPU prices... Would it be worth it to spring for the more expensive ones, or could I get by on a less expensive one?

AMD:
Sempron 3400+ = $38
Sempron LE 1100 = $39
Athlon 3200 = $46
Athlon 3800+ = $55
Athlon 64 X2 4000 = $70
Athlon 64 X2 4200+ = $79 (or $75 in Chula Vista instead of Kearny Mesa)

Intel:
Cel 3.06GHz = $45
Cel 3.3Ghz = $49
Cel D 3.0GHz = $49 (or $44 at a place that's farther out of the way)
P4 3.0GHz = $65 (or $62 farther away (Chula Vista instead of La Mesa)
P4 Dual Core 3GHz = $90
Core2Duo E2140 1.6GHz = $69
Core2Duo E4500 2.2GHz = $125

Last, but not least...
Would we (or I) be better off just plunking down and buying one of the systems advertised here?
(Note: link is to my Picasa web album where I've uploaded a few JPG ads I edited on my cell phone. Links to original PDFs can be found at ComputorEdge's San Diego site.)
Thing is, though.. I don't want an el-cheapo case, PSU, or mobo.

So the Fry's $78.99 CPU/MB combo deal with a modern Intel core duo processor and a decent MB is too expensive?

The 750gb HDD is a good deal.

The 750GB HD does seem like a good deal.

I agree with tlmck that Fry's is worth looking at. The online Friday ads have a bunch of MB/CPU combos, as well as RAM, HDs, etc., and the return policy is very liberal. Even if you fried the MB, they'd take it back (at least that's true at my local Fry's) without a problem if you just said it didn't work, which would be true.

I've seen the Sonata III, which includes an EarthWatts 500w for 80 or 90 dollars after MIR, but there are all kinds of good deals, if you know what you're looking at and compare the prices against online stores.

I've been messing with hardware for a long time and have no doubt that if you check the online ads for a couple weeks running, you can put together a decent desktop for a very reasonable price, depending on what you need.

E.g. (based on current Fry's ads):

Case $60
http://newspaperads.mercurynews.co [...] 8604&type=

PSU $40 - $30 = $10
http://newspaperads.mercurynews.co [...] 4081&type=

MB + CPU $159
http://newspaperads.mercurynews.co [...] 8596&type=

RAM $50
http://newspaperads.mercurynews.co [...] 8889&type=

SATA HD $100
http://newspaperads.mercurynews.co [...] 4082&type=

I would definitely get a SATA optical drive instead of using the old one, which will cost another $30 or so, but the MB has onboard graphics, which may be good enough. A decent, serviceable computer. The PSU is probably adequate but a Sonata III with the EarthWatts would be much better.

Most of the folks who say avoid ECS are gamers who overclock. ECS boards are not made for high performance computing. They are made for stock speed, run of the mill systems.

The three I have used for builds, the most recent being in April, have POSTed on the first try, and have run very solid. The one I am typing into right now even allowed for a slight overclock of the Celeron 420 chip it is running. Absolutely 0 problems with it.(see my more informations)

My previous ECS(4 years old) has an Athlon 64 3200+ chip on it, and is still running fine today for the folks I donated it to.

The third was a socket AM2 board I built for a friend with a 4200+ chip. Still running great after 1 year.

PC Chips boards are low end ECS and can be problematic. They usually work, but that is about the best you can say about them.

Even if you replace the ECS board, you are still getting the E2200 chip well below the cost of most places.($93.99 at Newegg). The E2200 has more than enough power for what you want to do.

The dual core will help with your music stuff. It will not speed up stuff such as web surfing, word processing, e-mail, etc... all that much over your parents current machine.

Lastly, I will be signing off this thread. I have helped as much as I can.

tlmck:
No, it's not too expensive. I'm just wary, based on things I've heard, of the ECS brand. You seem to have had no problems with it. Am I just irrationally panicking (sp)?
LOL... edit... you apparently replied as I was posting this one.
Ok, so still avoid PC Chips. but ECS might be OK. I don't anticipate doing much if any OC'ing on my current hardware.
So what brands' boards ARE made 4 high-perf computing at a reasonable price, or are they all over $100-120 for even the most basic models (no more than 8GB RAM support (at least 4 DIMMs), 3 each PCI, PCI-Express slots, 8 USB ports, 4 firewire ports, 8 SATA ports, 2 IDE connectors, etc)?

both:
Should I go buy that 750GB HD NOW, even though I currently don't have a physical way to install it, or if I wait a few weeks should I still be able to get it, or would a 1TB drive come down to, say, under $150?

kuniskos:
I'd have no problem shopping at Fry's so long as the prices aren't more than 1 or 2% higher than other places.
Do you know where I'd go online to see the Fry's ads? I can't seem to find the newspaper display ad online, and I don't have a subscription to the local paper it appears in (San Diego Union-Tribune). (usually the Sunday ads are the most extensive.)

Another thing... when I buy the stuff... I don't have a car yet, so I'll have to find some other way to take it home myself, possibly. I'm sure I could carry the HD, DVD, CPU, RAM, etc, the 1.5 miles home from the nearest bus stop to my house, but the case & mobo might be a bit unwieldy.
I might be able to get friends/family to drop it by (but my parents'll be out of town for a few weeks sometime in the next month - my sister's expecting her first baby), but otherwise should I just tough it out, or what?